Home
Register
Log in
f the Indian Floggers. Indian Air Force MiG-27s to bow out on December 27. Decommissioning ceremony at Jodhpur air force station.
Indian Air Force (IAF): News
George1- Posts : 15517
Points : 16012
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
GarryB- Posts : 27463
Points : 27995
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
The Russians/Soviets incorporated remote control systems to their retired fighters so they could be used as targets... the expendible nature of the drones and the fact that there is no fragile man on board mean performance of the drones could be increased to beyond what the manned version could handle...
Wouldn't it be interesting to remove the ejection seat from a MiG-27 and replace it with a 500kg bomb (the ejection seats on those planes were about 250kgs each, plus 100kgs for the pilot so this bomb wouldn't add too much to the weight of the aircraft... all the cockpit instruments could be removed too... and drop tanks attached to all external weapon pylons and dropped in flight when empty on a one way strike mission into enemy territory to attack a target suicide style...
Or you could just use them as target drones...
Wouldn't it be interesting to remove the ejection seat from a MiG-27 and replace it with a 500kg bomb (the ejection seats on those planes were about 250kgs each, plus 100kgs for the pilot so this bomb wouldn't add too much to the weight of the aircraft... all the cockpit instruments could be removed too... and drop tanks attached to all external weapon pylons and dropped in flight when empty on a one way strike mission into enemy territory to attack a target suicide style...
Or you could just use them as target drones...
RTN- Posts : 361
Points : 338
Join date : 2014-03-24
Location : Fairfield, CT
GarryB wrote:The Russians/Soviets incorporated remote control systems to their retired fighters so they could be used as targets...
Two questions:
Which remote control systems are these ?
If these remote control systems are effective then why did the Soviets retire those fighters ?
Isos
Isos- Posts : 6954
Points : 6944
Join date : 2015-11-06
They are some basic radio command controls to use the fighter as a target for anti air. USA are doing the same with their f-4.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5217
Points : 5211
Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
Update: https://www.janes.com/article/93797/indian-air-force-commissions-first-squadron-of-su-30mki-fighters-armed-with-the-brahmos-a-missile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanjavur_Air_Force_Station
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanjavur_Air_Force_Station
GarryB- Posts : 27463
Points : 27995
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Two questions:
Which remote control systems are these ?
If these remote control systems are effective then why did the Soviets retire those fighters ?
As already mentioned they are basic remote control systems... I think they used the built in auto pilot so commands can be sent to get the aircraft to perform various manouvers and speed and altitude and direction changes... mostly they were used to represent targets for SAMs or AAMs.
They were effective but not all aircraft were airworthy and it does not make sense to spend money to upgrade a fighter to get it flying just to shoot it down... they also have a range of SAM missile based drone targets and dedicated UAV drone target models as well to simulate a range of potential targets... from AT-1/-3 missiles through to OSA missiles and most other missiles... especially the early ones that tended to be produced in enormous numbers...
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5217
Points : 5211
Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/did-india-just-cancel-the-biggest-fighter-jet-tender-of-the-decade-delhi-looks-to-tejas-platform-to-replace-mmrca-competitors
IMO, that would be the right move.
IMO, that would be the right move.
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 1332
Points : 1324
Join date : 2015-12-30
Location : Merkelland
Tsavo Lion wrote:https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/did-india-just-cancel-the-biggest-fighter-jet-tender-of-the-decade-delhi-looks-to-tejas-platform-to-replace-mmrca-competitors
IMO, that would be the right move.
Tejas is way worse than the chinese upgrade of the mig21 that they sold to Pakistan (the Jf17), so it is ok just for fill the numbers and maybe to replace some of the oldest jets in their inventory, but not to fight against modern fighters.
Furthermore I remember reading that it was not ready yet and also not cheap at all (for its characteristics)
GarryB- Posts : 27463
Points : 27995
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
The problem with light fighters is mission growth... they end up expecting them to perform like a medium fighter but still stay cheap.
The only really successful light fighters are the MiG-21 and F-5.
Some might argue the F-16 qualifies, but the recent ones sold are the same price as Flankers so not really cheap or actually very light any more.
The only really successful light fighters are the MiG-21 and F-5.
Some might argue the F-16 qualifies, but the recent ones sold are the same price as Flankers so not really cheap or actually very light any more.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5217
Points : 5211
Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
Russia for its part has sold multiple batches of fighters to India just since MMRCA was announced, and even if the agreement had stalled it was expected to continue to sign new contracts for advanced multirole fighters jets under separate deals. Alongside ongoing orders for MiG-29 and Su-30MKI fighters, India has shown considerable interest in a range of new Russian designs including the Yak-130 fighter-trainer and the MiG-35 ‘4++ generation’ medium fighter.
Although the Tejas its not was capable as most jets in the MMRCA, its capabilities are comparable to the lightweight Gripen E fighter and it uses a very similar F414 engine. Being lighter, the Tejas has a lower operational cost than the F-16, F-21 or the twin engine competitors, and the design is expected to see continued improvements to its capabilities including the integration of a wider range of new weapons systems.
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/did-india-just-cancel-the-biggest-fighter-jet-tender-of-the-decade-delhi-looks-to-tejas-platform-to-replace-mmrca-competitors
So, the Tejas would just eliminate F-16/21 fighters only.
In the meantime, India has enough MiG-29s to back it up.
Although the Tejas its not was capable as most jets in the MMRCA, its capabilities are comparable to the lightweight Gripen E fighter and it uses a very similar F414 engine. Being lighter, the Tejas has a lower operational cost than the F-16, F-21 or the twin engine competitors, and the design is expected to see continued improvements to its capabilities including the integration of a wider range of new weapons systems.
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/did-india-just-cancel-the-biggest-fighter-jet-tender-of-the-decade-delhi-looks-to-tejas-platform-to-replace-mmrca-competitors
So, the Tejas would just eliminate F-16/21 fighters only.
In the meantime, India has enough MiG-29s to back it up.
Pinto likes this post
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 1332
Points : 1324
Join date : 2015-12-30
Location : Merkelland
Tsavo Lion wrote:Russia for its part has sold multiple batches of fighters to India just since MMRCA was announced, and even if the agreement had stalled it was expected to continue to sign new contracts for advanced multirole fighters jets under separate deals. Alongside ongoing orders for MiG-29 and Su-30MKI fighters, India has shown considerable interest in a range of new Russian designs including the Yak-130 fighter-trainer and the MiG-35 ‘4++ generation’ medium fighter.
Although the Tejas its not was capable as most jets in the MMRCA, its capabilities are comparable to the lightweight Gripen E fighter and it uses a very similar F414 engine. Being lighter, the Tejas has a lower operational cost than the F-16, F-21 or the twin engine competitors, and the design is expected to see continued improvements to its capabilities including the integration of a wider range of new weapons systems.
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/did-india-just-cancel-the-biggest-fighter-jet-tender-of-the-decade-delhi-looks-to-tejas-platform-to-replace-mmrca-competitors
So, the Tejas would just eliminate F-16/21 fighters only.
In the meantime, India has enough MiG-29s to back it up.
Tejas has an american (GE) engine...so it is not it is fully homegrown...
Pinto likes this post
George1- Posts : 15517
Points : 16012
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Indian Defense Ministry approves purchase of NTT-40 trainer aircraft
The Defense Acquisition Council (DAC) of the Ministry of Defense of India, at a meeting on August 11, 2020, chaired by Defense Minister Rajanat Singh, approved the purchase of 70 turboprop trainer aircraft (with an option for another 36) NTT-40 development and production for the Indian Air Force Indian state aircraft building association Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).
The first prototype of the Indian turboprop trainer aircraft HAL NTT-40 (TSR001) (c) HAL
The second prototype of the Indian turboprop trainer aircraft HAL NTT-40 (TSR002), September 2019 (c) Tarmak007
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4114222.html
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5217
Points : 5211
Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/indian-air-force-formally-inducts-first-five-rafale-fighter-aircraft
Sujoy- Posts : 1233
Points : 1391
Join date : 2012-04-02
Location : India || भारत
India test fired the 160kms range Rudram-1 NG-ARM. The sensor package comprised a wide-band passive seeker, with a W-band millimetric-wave active seeker.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5217
Points : 5211
Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
https://eurasiantimes.com/russia-shows-how-indian-air-force-can-use-its-transport-aircraft-il-76-for-carpet-bombing-watch/
Isos- Posts : 6954
Points : 6944
Join date : 2015-11-06
Tsavo Lion wrote:https://eurasiantimes.com/russia-shows-how-indian-air-force-can-use-its-transport-aircraft-il-76-for-carpet-bombing-watch/
Any manpad or AD or long range air to air missile will easily destroy this plane.
They should have bought the production line of the tu-22 back in the time and improved it over the years. They would have had right now a bomber similar to tu-22M3 of Russian air force.
USSR was selling it like little breads. They wouldn't have opposed the sell.
And it would have been a perfect carrier for Brahmos.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5217
Points : 5211
Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
they have flares for that & can be escorted.Any manpad or AD or long range air to air missile will easily destroy this plane.
Only earlier Tu-22 Blinders were sold abroad, & they weren't liked by Soviet pilots. India had/s many other planes & tankers for tactical strikes.They should have bought the production line of the tu-22 back in the time and improved it over the years.
Isos- Posts : 6954
Points : 6944
Join date : 2015-11-06
they have flares for that & can be escorted.
Flares won't do anything. It's a huge plane.
Only earlier Tu-22 Blinders were sold abroad, & they weren't liked by Soviet pilots. India had/s many other planes & tankers for tactical strikes.
Yes I'm talking about the blinder.
That's because it was hard to fly. Modern fly by wire would have made it a very good aircraft.
Tu-22 would give them a strategic strike option like tu-160 for Russia. China and Pakistan are close to them so they don't need a tu-160.
IMO they could still ask for the plans and make their own production line. Russians still have it and could help them.
Their tactical strike aircraft also sucks. A bunch of old Jaguar and only 20 or mki carrying only one brahmos. And the mirage that carry israeli shitty bombs.
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5217
Points : 5211
Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
They had ASW Tu-142s that could be modified & used as strategic bombers for le$$, but didn't bother to do it. Setting up Tu-22 production would cost as much as dozens of new Su-30 fighter-bombers; besides, those Tu-22s would need to be escorted & mid-air refueled.
Their IL-76/C-130J/17s can stay out of enemy AD & launch dozens of LR CMs.
Their IL-76/C-130J/17s can stay out of enemy AD & launch dozens of LR CMs.
GarryB- Posts : 27463
Points : 27995
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Any manpad or AD or long range air to air missile will easily destroy this plane.
They should have bought the production line of the tu-22 back in the time and improved it over the years. They would have had right now a bomber similar to tu-22M3 of Russian air force.
USSR was selling it like little breads. They wouldn't have opposed the sell.
And it would have been a perfect carrier for Brahmos.
In terms of shooting down there is not a huge gap between an Il-76 and a Tu-22... the first problem would be they likely don't have any Tu-22s to sell, and regarding Tu-22M3s they probably want to keep those and upgrade them for themselves too.
The Virtue of the Il-76 is its capacity for bombs and lowish operating costs and availability.
With the Candid they can use it for transport or fire fighting or inflight refuelling or a bomber within a couple of hours.
Their IL-76/C-130J/17s can stay out of enemy AD & launch dozens of LR CMs.
With regard to engaging enemy positions, they are available and cheap.
Sujoy- Posts : 1233
Points : 1391
Join date : 2012-04-02
Location : India || भारत
India already operates the Kh-58. Now, India is making itself its very own Kh-58 with a much longer range. Primary target is Pakistani radars but Rudra - M3 can actually snipe Chinese HQ-9, S-400 class Early Warning and Fire Control radars from a distance.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 6766
Points : 6917
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
Sujoy wrote:India already operates the Kh-58. Now, India is making itself its very own Kh-58 with a much longer range. Primary target is Pakistani radars but Rudra - M3 can actually snipe Chinese HQ-9, S-400 class Early Warning and Fire Control radars from a distance.
P-500 Bazalt designed from the early 1960's had a active-radar head with home-on-jam ability, and it's range was 550km. 
It's deepest modernization, P-1000 Vulkan had a range of 700km, and was further modified to hit at 1000km. 
RTN- Posts : 361
Points : 338
Join date : 2014-03-24
Location : Fairfield, CT
America's broken immigration system in plain sight 
Migrants who are of the opinion that air to ground missiles and ship launched cruise missiles are exactly the same thing.
Migrants who are of the opinion that air to ground missiles and ship launched cruise missiles are exactly the same thing.
magnumcromagnon wrote:
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 6766
Points : 6917
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
RTN wrote:America's broken immigration system in plain sight
Migrants who are of the opinion that air to ground missiles and ship launched cruise missiles are exactly the same thing.magnumcromagnon wrote:
It was in reference to anti-radiation capability Mr. Extra Chromosone.
BTW your a Prima Faci example why America desperately needs to import scientists and engineers from India and China, Russia doesn't btw lol! 
RTN- Posts : 361
Points : 338
Join date : 2014-03-24
Location : Fairfield, CT
Yeah right! Since air launched anti radiation do not exist so reference point is cruise missile.magnumcromagnon wrote: It was in reference to anti-radiation capability Mr. Extra Chromosone.
They come here uninvited in any case. We don't need to import them. Do share your findings with the 2 million strong Russian population here...seems they didn't get the memo.magnumcromagnon wrote:BTW your a Prima Faci example why America desperately needs to import scientists and engineers from India and China, Russia doesn't btw lol!
|
|
|