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    Iran's indigenous UAVs

    nomadski
    nomadski

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    Post  nomadski on Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:20 pm


    The point about sea anti - ship drones. On land, large and slow drone against armour, with short range ATGM not useful. Both agree. On land drones do not have to be long range. Lines of contact are close. At sea, ships are far away to avoid becoming target. So need large drone wingspan fuel to reach. But means slow and easy target if too close to ship. Drone can carry own weight plus payload. But if separate payload, with own body and engine and avionic and sensor, then can be only small warhead. Not effective against ship either.

    But separate missile must have own avionics. Most expensive part of missile. This gets destroyed every time anyway. And we save body of UCAV. BUT have to make two avionic. So cost more. Plus, when UCAV turn around, it exposes engine to heat sensor and become target.

    Therefore false economy to separate UCAV from missile. Best have UCAV that changes to missile or torpedo near target. No more big wing or slow. Rocket ignited. Engine ejected. Wing ejected. Evaporative cooling of body to ambient temperature. Composite body. Bigger payload. Because not carrying two sets of control and actuator and body. Just one set. Loose weight. Not gain weight.
    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB on Fri May 01, 2020 6:20 am

    It comes down to survivability... if there is a good chance of the drone surviving then it makes sense to make it sophisticated and fast and powerful and loaded with weapons instead of the drone itself being a weapon.

    Think of it in terms of getting bombs on target.

    A drone is a useful alternative because modern bombers and modern precision guided bombs are expensive... a cheap simple drone makes sense, but if you already have those expensive bombers and with a modification are then able to use cheap dumb bombs with an accuracy and precision good enough so instead of dropping million dollar bombs you are dropping thousand dollar bombs then suddenly it becomes much harder to justify using a drone for that job because that bomber can carry self defence equipment and self defence weapons and would be much harder to deal with than a simple drone.

    Obviously you could argue that having fighters protect the bomber means more cost but cost is justified if it means actually reaching and destroying the target.

    For Iran a mini sub might be the best solution... with low speed very quiet propellers they could be towed out to sea by fishing vessels and then released to sail back towards any attacking western ships from behind... using lots of batteries you could make it so that it can be very quiet and sneak up on targets from behind, or position themselves in the path of enemy ships and dive down to sit just below their hull and when the ship comes over top a MAD sensor could make it go boom...

    Being a submarine you could put ten tons of explosive inside it easily... along with ten tons of batteries.... connect a power cable to the fishing boat to charge the batteries to full charge while towing it out to position and then at the time it is released transmit the general positions they need to be at to be effective... they could release a small buoy with an antenna to receive targeting instructions... they could carry dozens of them including fake ones that are released with a delay so they pop up hours after the mini sub has gone by... the sub itself could operate along the sea floor to make it hard to detect but with sonar to detect vessels and aircraft and ships looking for it...

    But separate missile must have own avionics. Most expensive part of missile.

    There are lots of cheap guidance systems available... you don't need ARH or IIR sensors... simple command guidance or laser beam riding is relatively cheap and simple...

    Therefore false economy to separate UCAV from missile. Best have UCAV that changes to missile or torpedo near target. No more big wing or slow. Rocket ignited. Engine ejected. Wing ejected. Evaporative cooling of body to ambient temperature. Composite body. Bigger payload. Because not carrying two sets of control and actuator and body. Just one set. Loose weight. Not gain weight.

    The problem there is that each target requires its own individual bomber platform to deal with it... which might sound cheaper but would likely end up being much more expensive.

    Of course cost is not the only factor... a weapon that costs $50 is no good if it does not destroy the target... if they can develop 152mm ammo that can reach targets 170km away then what could they achieve with a 203mm calibre round. Shore based gun artillery is interesting... and so would shore based rocket artillery... especially if it can be used against ground targets too...
    nomadski
    nomadski

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    Post  nomadski on Fri May 01, 2020 1:17 pm

    Agree. It is more a case of what you have. But if you don't have and are making. Then everything else being equal. Then you need a variety of systems. That exploit and rely on different methods of attack and guidance. From manual to automated to using different sensors. So that if enemy overcomes one system. Say knows how to jam Radar, then you have X and Y  and  Z. But not good idea to have duplicates. Two systems to attack same target that rely on same method.

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/158506/IRGC-fighters-equipped-with-new-air-to-surface-missile

    Now this is more like it. For war situation. Stand off range should be big. Bigger than many SAM, I think. Then manouver out of the way. Keep UCAV on land, for recon or use against Rats.

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