Mistral News thread

Morality means jack shit how we have found out the narrative is still kept "russia evil".

Russia should fine for penalties if not then do the same as french, let them order something from russia of equal money, let them pay in advance and then act out of treaty boundaries and use something phoney as pretext for not delivering it and wait over a year untill you make a decision to return money or supply.

max steel wrote:What's the point of gaining high moral ground when the opponent is trying to damage (destroy) you . Maybe you're right .

It's meant for others to see. And as I said this is quite a humiliation for France.

Werewolf wrote:Morality means jack shit how we have found out the narrative is still kept "russia evil".

Russia should fine for penalties if not then do the same as french, let them order something from russia of equal money, let them pay in advance and then act out of treaty boundaries and use something phoney as pretext for not delivering it and wait over a year untill you make a decision to return money or supply.

If morality meant nothing, than why is everyone viewing America in negative light?! Apart from Poles, Balts and Romanians that is.
And NO, Russia should definitely NOT do that, France will be the ultimate loser here, not Russia.

macedonian wrote:

max steel wrote:must've paid penalties

No, no - it's actually better this way.
Russia claims the high moral ground, and treats France as a minor league player, and a mere vassal to the Americans.
It's like Russia saying: No need for penalties, the embarrassing position you've put yourselves into is penalty in itself.
Quite a humiliation for the French. De Gaulle must be doing a double 360 in his grave.

Who's going to pay attention to such subtleties anyhow?
Certainly not the Western media.

We're in an economic war and France is waging it against Russia too, let's not forget. Russia should answer with a full broadside and wring the French like a sponge over their breach of contract.

flamming_python wrote:
Who's going to pay attention to such subtleties anyhow?
Certainly not the Western media.

Don't you think the French knew that?! Yet, they calculated till the last moment.
They're patently aware how this looks in the eyes of the world. And the world ain't the west only, you know.
People will take note of this, and it will ultimately be very bad for France. Not to mention how humiliating the whole situation is for them.
This is France...De Gaulles' France! The state that chose that it's better to cooperate with Germany after the war, rather than kneel before AngloAmerica.

flamming_python wrote:We're in an economic war and France is waging it against Russia too, let's not forget. Russia should answer with a full broadside and wring the French like a sponge over their breach of contract.

You sometimes come across as very wise, and sometimes...
One doesn't attack when the enemy is expecting it, one bides his time and strikes at the right moment.
As I said - this will end up very badly for the French. Something I suspect they are already starting to realize.

macedonian wrote:You sometimes come across as very wise, and sometimes...
One doesn't attack when the enemy is expecting it, one bides his time and strikes at the right moment.
As I said - this will end up very badly for the French. Something I suspect they are already starting to realize.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, good friend.

I didn't mean to say 'wring them like a sponge'.

What I actually meant - is tie a rope to their balls, the other half to a MiG-31, and swing them all around Russia at Mach 3 until they're milked for all they could possibly be worth!

They're not expecting an attack now, they didn't expect any retaliation at all from Russia in fact, when they signed up with the sanctions, they didn't expect any retaliation at all from Russia before that either, when they went along with the master-plan to depose the elected government of the Ukraine and install a puppet-regime.

It's time to strike back, and to show France, Germany, other European nations that there are consenquences to supporting a massacre of Russian-speakers in East Ukraine, that there are consenquences to pissing all over Russia's interests, that there are consenquences to ignoring one Russian warning after the other.
And to show them, that these consenquences, and this showdown - will hurt them a lot more than it hurts Russia.

That way, maybe next time they'll think about the smackdown they received last time, before agreeing to sign up for Obama's latest 'cunning plan' in return for being thrown a few bones or have a little of that surviellance equipment that Washington uses to keep tabs on them be promised to be withdrawn.

They do not respect Russia, and they do not fear it - that's why they've agreed to go along with whatever America wants.

I understand how you feel, and I feel the same way. All of what you say should happen.
But Russia is not in a position to do all those things NOW - at this very moment. Neither is China for that matter.
I think they know this at the Kremlin, and they play the hand with the cards they have. After re-armament, after building the pipelines to China, and expanding presence in Asia - yes by all means. After all that - they'll just say FCUK EUROPE...like Vicky did. And I think that's precisely what they are doing.
But they know they're not there yet.

To use an analogy, Russia should be the Fedor Emelianenko on the world stage. A decent bloke, nice to talk to, but when he gets in the ring - he gets the job done.
Give it some time, and Russia will be Fedor. It's not atm though.

macedonian wrote:I understand how you feel, and I feel the same way. All of what you say should happen.
But Russia is not in a position to do all those things NOW - at this very moment. Neither is China for that matter.
I think they know this at the Kremlin, and they play the hand with the cards they have. After re-armament, after building the pipelines to China, and expanding presence in Asia - yes by all means. After all that - they'll just say FCUK EUROPE...like Vicky did. And I think that's precisely what they are doing.
But they know they're not there yet.

To use an analogy, Russia should be the Fedor Emelianenko on the world stage. A decent bloke, nice to talk to, but when he gets in the ring - he gets the job done.
Give it some time, and Russia will be Fedor. It's not atm though.

Let them do their worst

Russia when pushed, will harden like a rock

The EU will try, but its only as strong as its weakest link; which isn't that strong

flamming_python wrote:
Let them do their worst
Russia when pushed, will harden like a rock
The EU will try, but its only as strong as its weakest link; which isn't that strong

Well Putin did say: If we didn't fight so many wars, there'd be more than 300 million Russians today.
So I think this time Russia is choosing a combo of Brave&Smart rather than just Brave.
It's quite visionary actually.
Besides Russia has nothing to prove to Europe. It's Europe that should be grateful (and show respect) to Russia, but they're stuck in their sleazy, slimy, backstabbing ways as always.

macedonian wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Let them do their worst
Russia when pushed, will harden like a rock
The EU will try, but its only as strong as its weakest link; which isn't that strong

Well Putin did say: If we didn't fight so many wars, there'd be more than 300 million Russians today.
So I think this time Russia is choosing a combo of Brave&Smart rather than just Brave.
It's quite visionary actually.
Besides Russia has nothing to prove to Europe. It's Europe that should be grateful (and show respect) to Russia, but they're stuck in their sleazy, slimy, backstabbing ways as always.

Oh who the F is scared of them.

War? They were running around like headless chickens for months after Crimea; they couldn't even agree on a co-ordinated response for 1-2 months after the annexation and can't enforce it completely to this day; while in contrast it took all of 4-5 days for Russia to reach a decision on what to do in retaliation to the coup in Kiev, and all of 2-3 days to implement it.

And don't even get me started on NATO - an organization in a desperado drive to try and keep itself relevant in the 21st century.
In their latest stunt - they've ended up making themselves a whole new enemy artificially to justify their own existance, by provoking Russia right on its borders on a vital issue.
But ultimtately no-one is scared of them either.

I'm sure that they'll all get more serious if Russia takes the economic/political war to the next level; and more dictatorial/media-controlling/pressuring on allied states too - which will only increase dissent in Europe.
But the alternative is to simply do nothing, which they'll take as an invitation to introduce more sanctions anyway.

I think in the end the mistrals Will be deliverd. The reputation of france is on the line and it's already severe damaged because of the political game. And who would otherwise buy these ship build with specific russian navy specs in mind? On the other hand these ship will be of good use for the navy. It Will give capability back to the navy that is lost during the 1990. Ofcourse with the repayment of the funds they could invest the make an own design but that takes time.

The weasel is still contemplating...how to renegade on a deal without losing face...questions, questions, decisions, decisions...

Reuters

No decision yet on Mistral, France's Hollande says

Reuters wrote:(Reuters) - No decision has yet been taken on the future of France's suspended contract to deliver Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia, French President Francois Hollande said on Friday after meeting Russian President Vladimir Putin.

"As far as the Mistral is concerned I have set the terms. Either the Mistral is delivered, which is not our decision as of today, or a repayment will be made in the form we have discussed," Hollande said at a news conference after the meeting in Yerevan, Armenia.

Separately, Economy Minister Emmanuel Macron told Reuters in Paris the French government would make sure the companies and workers involved were not affected.

The French colonists learning what it means to be a colony.
There's kind of a poetic justice to this.

“I think we should look for ways to restore our relationship.”

Why?

If the relationship is that Russia orders a French product in good faith and pays for it, and then France makes the product to specification and then refuses to deliver... what is the purpose of a relationship with such a country?

Russia claims the high moral ground, and treats France as a minor league player, and a mere vassal to the Americans.

Shaming is no punishment for countries with no sense of shame.

I would say the best thing to do would be to simply rehash the design further to meet Russias requirements and then build 2 in Russian shipyards and don't give France a cent.

If morality meant nothing, than why is everyone viewing America in negative light?! Apart from Poles, Balts and Romanians that is.
And NO, Russia should definitely NOT do that, France will be the ultimate loser here, not Russia.

America is not respected because it ignores international rules all the time when it suits their interests.

Fines for non delivery is in the contract and follows international law... it is not some bonus... Russia has likely spent a small fortune in training and infrastructure to support two vessels it wont be getting... why shouldn't they get compensation?

You make it sound like the other kids in the playground will respect Russia for not hitting the bully back when the bully attacks them... I think that is wrong.

What I actually meant - is tie a rope to their balls, the other half to a MiG-31, and swing them all around Russia at Mach 3 until they're milked for all they could possibly be worth!

Remind me never to piss you off FP... Though with a proper harness and maybe attach it to the end of my enormous penis instead of my testicals and that actually sounds like quite a ride...

I think in the end the mistrals Will be deliverd. The reputation of france is on the line and it's already severe damaged because of the political game. And who would otherwise buy these ship build with specific russian navy specs in mind? On the other hand these ship will be of good use for the navy. It Will give capability back to the navy that is lost during the 1990. Ofcourse with the repayment of the funds they could invest the make an own design but that takes time.

I agree... suspect they might try to weasel out of any penalties which they already owe, by offering to deliver both ships in return for waiving of the penalties and I think the Russians might just accept that because the ships will be useful.

You know call me a pessimist, but it's quite clear that Russia most likely isn't going to get the Mistral even if they do make the second ship, what they're doing is keeping the French shipyard workers employed to avoid protest do to job losses and above all (for Washington) to prevent Russia from making there own Helli-carrier, i am almost certain that this will end up with Russia needing to make it themselves and as another one of Serdyukovs f#ck ups.

I am optimistic... I think the French are not stupid... they have no use for either of these vessels.

GarryB wrote:I am optimistic... I think the French are not stupid... they have no use for either of these vessels.

A year ago, I might've agreed with that...
After the Evo Morales fiasco, and this whole mess...I beg to differ.
France is just a shadow of the country it used to be. Like I said - it's an American colony. They need to live with that now.

There was some news saying Canada will buy those mistrals . France dont sell those mistrals to Russia . Maidan titbits troll idiots protested during the delievery .

i will like Russia cancel the order and get the money and use the money to make
something for the first time in their lives that is impressive , something like a exoatmospheric
Bomber . Mistrals only use is power projection.. Russia do not project power at all , they do not interfere in any conflict away of Russian borders and merely limit to supply weapons to other countries.   So the need for those mistrals will be pointless .  Russia better hurry and militarize space before is too late.. a High Altitude bomber will truly get nervous anyone in NATO ,you cannot intercept them without very expensive missiles SM-3 like and you cannot attack them and shut them down unless they are officially at war.. essentially Russia will be free to travel near the borders of any nation airspace armed with heavy weapons . Ideal to decapitate a nation enemy leadership  if you believe war is inevitable and will start withing days..  and best of All NATO will not know if the Bombers will have nuclear weapons inside or just conventional.

however if Canada buys the mistrals.. i can imagine they will use the cargo ships to provoke
Russia ,in the black sea.. so Russia will need to be ready to slap the face of anyone who goes to their backyard in hostile ways.

"The decision on compensating Russian costs for the Mistral ships hasn’t yet been legally formalized; however France and Russia will take another month to set the exact terms of the annulment of the contract for the Mistral war ships"


More at http://rt.com/news/253161-france-russia-mistral-ships/

€1.1 bn talked about in the press as refund to Russia is laughable and peanuts compared to the money and more importantly the time wasted on the contract. Russia should be considering a bigger refund that will hurt the French real good.

Vann7 wrote:i will like Russia cancel the order and get the money and use the money to make
something for the first time in their lives that is impressive , something like a exoatmospheric
Bomber . Mistrals only use is power projection.. Russia do not project power at all , they do not interfere in any conflict away of Russian borders and merely limit to supply weapons to other countries.   So the need for those mistrals will be pointless .  Russia better hurry and militarize space before is too late.. a High Altitude bomber will truly get nervous anyone in NATO ,you cannot intercept them without very expensive missiles SM-3 like and you cannot attack them and shut them down unless they are officially at war.. essentially Russia will be free to travel near the borders of any nation airspace armed with heavy weapons . Ideal to decapitate a nation enemy leadership  if you believe war is inevitable and will start withing days..  and best of All NATO will not know if the Bombers will have nuclear weapons inside or just conventional.

however if Canada buys the mistrals.. i can imagine they will use the cargo ships to provoke
Russia ,in the black sea.. so Russia will need to be ready to slap the face of anyone who goes to their backyard in hostile ways.

Russia needs to project power and only with the ability to project power will Russia have the ability to bring the battle to the opponets backyard. And to project power Russia needs ships. Without ships to its a defensive game in ones own backyard. It needs to change but sadly those in charge had other priorities all these years.

I am not saying they should have prioritized 12-24 Pr.22350 during these years.... but they should have considered building the good and well armed corvette designs like the pr.11661 in dozens (12-24 units) and deployed them in good numbers to safeguard their near space of interests and those of their "near & dear" ones. These are good ships that can make any NATO ships to keep a distance. But the guys did not think of building these cost effective ships nor did they thought of introducing modular construction at Zelenodolsky shipyard even after securing the Vietnamese order for Gepard 3.9. The result being the hulls getting completed from keel up in the covered dock and taking hell lot of time. Its truly irritating when we think of what all could have been genuinely done to improve the situation and still seeing it not done.

Mistral arrive shanghai

type055 wrote:

Mistral arrive shanghai

So China will act as a 'middle man', France sells Mistral to China, which they sell to Russia? Wouldn't the U.S. still be angry because of the so-called weapon embargo on China (which a lot of countries ignore)?

magnumcromagnon wrote:

type055 wrote:

Mistral arrive shanghai

So China will act as a 'middle man', France sells Mistral to China, which they sell to Russia? Wouldn't the U.S. still be angry because of the so-called weapon embargo on China (which a lot of countries ignore)?

This ship belongs to France navy， this trip is just a friendly visit I guess.

France has every intention of delivering Mistral.  They had to pretend to care for political reasons. They are just waiting for the world to accept the reality of what we have done. As it is shipped unarmed, it isn't even subject to weapons embargo.

Vladimir79 wrote:France has every intention of delivering Mistral.  They had to pretend to care for political reasons. They are just waiting for the world to accept the reality of what we have done.  As it is shipped unarmed, it isn't even subject to weapons embargo.

It would be a nice slap in the face to that degenerate Uncle Sam!