Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4

Got some news here. https://naukatehnika.com/sistemu-dlya-obespecheniya-myagkoj-posadki-kosmicheskih-korablej.html

The enthusiast proposes to solve the problem of planting through the use of various fibers, Kevlar, carbon, flexabit, UHWPE, ONNEX. The best option the author considers the use of heavy-duty and high-modul fibers (threads) of high-molecular polyethylene. Of course, ropes made of polyethylene should be protected by a special heat-resistant shell so as not to burn from the torch of the engines.

The insulation shell made of ceramic wool will serve as an additional buffer in contact with the rocket body. According to the author, he doubts that musk's mechanical arm will be able to more delicately grasp the rocket without damage. The mechanical arm of MECHAZILLA in the idea of SpaceX should make the girth of the rocket with greater accuracy of landing than the proposed technology semenov.

When working hands, the permissible deviations do not exceed 1 meter! The hand drive is powered by a single engine, and a mistake of a few meters can be fatal. And there is a problem with the great inertia of the entire structure, the ship will not be able to stand on its own supports and slowly reduce the speed to zero on them, most likely functionally this is not a trap, but an active platform at a height. They do not catch it, but give the ship the only chance that he himself could land on it.

All these shortcomings gave reason to think the author about a simpler solution...

An alternative option is an area of 500x500 meters, allowing the rocket to deflect up to 10 degrees! The trap actively accepts the missile without relying on the maneuvering of the missile itself. According to the author of the idea, the system will cost no more than one missile, but will last for decades. The system is essentially a huge station with the kinematics of a parallel robot, which was patented. This gives a gain in reliability, carrying capacity and allows you to use the system in different weather conditions. As the engineer Dahir Semenov specified, "Firstly, our ropes are able to actively escape from the torch of the engines during the passage of the ship through the trap window, and secondly, there are heat-resistant ceramic fabrics that hold high temperatures well and are not so easy to burn. I'm calm about this. In the carrying capacity of ropes, we are not limited at all, now there are fibers stronger than steel 15 times, it costs nothing to create special ropes for 1000 tons with a heat-resistant shell. "

One of the side advantages of using the system, according to the author, will be the absence of the need for retractable supports on the rocket, which will reduce the overall weight of the missiles. Braking of the missile trapped will be carried out hydraulically. Dampers of special design will provide the minimum reverse acceleration that is possible mathematically at a given speed and braking distance.

The new trap system is replaceable, it has a dozen different tools for different occasions, can change them ten times a day and take ten different ships. It is potentially possible to launch from the same stations of "soft landing".

thegopnik wrote:Got some news here.  https://naukatehnika.com/sistemu-dlya-obespecheniya-myagkoj-posadki-kosmicheskih-korablej.html

The enthusiast proposes to solve the problem of planting through the use of various fibers, Kevlar, carbon, flexabit, UHWPE, ONNEX. The best option the author considers the use of heavy-duty and high-modul fibers (threads) of high-molecular polyethylene.   Of course, ropes made of polyethylene should be protected by a special heat-resistant shell so as not to burn from the torch of the engines.

The insulation shell made of ceramic wool will serve as an additional buffer in contact with the rocket body. According to the author, he doubts that musk's mechanical arm will be able to more delicately grasp the rocket without damage.   The mechanical arm of MECHAZILLA in the idea of SpaceX should make the girth of the rocket with greater accuracy of landing than the proposed technology semenov.

When working hands, the permissible deviations do not exceed 1 meter! The hand drive is powered by a single engine, and a mistake of a few meters can be fatal. And there is a problem with the great inertia of the entire structure, the ship will not be able to stand on its own supports and slowly reduce the speed to zero on them, most likely functionally this is not a trap, but an active platform at a height. They do not catch it, but give the ship the only chance that he himself could land on it.

All these shortcomings gave reason to think the author about a simpler solution...

An alternative option is an area of 500x500 meters, allowing the rocket to deflect up to 10 degrees! The trap actively accepts the missile without relying on the maneuvering of the missile itself. According to the author of the idea, the system will cost no more than one missile, but will last for decades.   The system is essentially a huge station with the kinematics of a parallel robot, which was patented. This gives a gain in reliability, carrying capacity and allows you to use the system in different weather conditions.   As the engineer Dahir Semenov specified, "Firstly, our ropes are able to actively escape from the torch of the engines during the passage of the ship through the trap window, and secondly, there are heat-resistant ceramic fabrics that hold high temperatures well and are not so easy to burn. I'm calm about this. In the carrying capacity of ropes, we are not limited at all, now there are fibers stronger than steel 15 times, it costs nothing to create special ropes for 1000 tons with a heat-resistant shell. "

One of the side advantages of using the system, according to the author, will be the absence of the need for retractable supports on the rocket, which will reduce the overall weight of the missiles.   Braking of the missile trapped will be carried out hydraulically. Dampers of special design will provide the minimum reverse acceleration that is possible mathematically at a given speed and braking distance.

The new trap system is replaceable, it has a dozen different tools for different occasions, can change them ten times a day and take ten different ships.   It is potentially possible to launch from the same stations of "soft landing".

Isnt dahir the retard with these garbage death quadcopter drone ideas?

thegopnik wrote:so why not just put them on starship to get them to orion instead of SLS?

Because "Starship" is a fucking hoax. Its a sub-orbital transport for military applications, and has zero practical application in anything other than (maybe) low earth orbit. It will never land on the moon, let alone Mars

NASA is under political pressure internally not to spill the beans, so they make PR noises to support Musks subterfuges, but they are not stupid and will continue with SLS as they know it is their only vehicle that will be able to support manned lunar activities. Any public noises about "StarSilo" working in conjunction with SLS and Orion is just fluffery for domestic consumption.

thegopnik wrote:NASA is trying to get the 1st woman and 1st colored person to the moon

Seems reasonable.  The woman can cook and clean (and perform other services as long as she is young and pretty), while the black can do the dangerous nasty jobs like digging out the holes for the habitats. Meanwhile the white dudes do the important techy stuff.

All sarcasm aside, its depressing to see the NASA "leadership" succumbing to the woke infection that is rotting the US from the head down.  I kinda expect some NASA sock puppet to proudly announce the first transgender Astronaut, or to beam a live workshop session to murkan schoolkids on the joys of gay sex in weightless conditions.  The NASA old-timers who made the organisation such an outstanding success must be rolling in their graves.  

https://ria.ru/20211004/energiya-1753024365.html so no moon race, They stated the final draft was to be done this fall, so another draft has to be made with methane engines than layout the costs before setting the plan in motion? I guess the previous design being 4 times cheaper than SLS was not enough to reach their goal. So I guess the only thing I am looking forward to is the Amur, I no longer know if they will ever build a moon base either because I wanted  Orel to be launched by the Yenisei with methane engines in 2028 but it seems Rogozin now has no idea since in the future is not giving us any time frame at all. So the problem is why the **** hasnt the company thought about the expenses before and just started with a methane engine solution alot more earlier than realizing it now that the kerosene engine approach was going to get cancelled anyways? Rogozin already gave the cost estimate comparison to the SLS, did he not consult with anyone that the price estimate was still not good enough as in lower costs before finally deciding saying ohh shit we can solve this by going methane? If Roscosmos is broke because Russia is economically broke than dont get anyones hopes up in the 1st place that you have moon project plans because you will definetly piss off the public which the majority of their population enjoys Russias achievements in space right behind their country's achievements in WW2.

The development of a super-heavy rocket in Russia was suspended, mainly for financial reasons, said the head of the flight of the Russian segment ISS, General Designer of the Rocket and Space Corporation (RSC) "Energia" Vladimir Solovyov.
"It's insanely expensive. They began to count, figured - hundreds of billions of trillions are obtained. The Minister of Finance does not understand this," he said at a scientific session at the Space Research Institute (IKI) of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

Earlier, the general director of the Samara Rocket and Space Center (RCC) "Progress" Dmitry Baranov told RIA Novosti that the company suspended the development of the technical project of a super-heavy class rocket, not ruling out that work could resume after clarifying the program.

Later chapter "Roscosmos" Dmitry Rogozin stated that a super-heavy rocket for flights on Moon in the previous form will not be created, and the funds will be directed to the creation of methane technologies, on the basis of which a new rocket will be built in the future.

2026- new methane rocket atleast to be put in service.

2028-2030 dates of using a super heavy rocket with lunar space craft to also land a person to the moon, along with launching lunar bases is now even further delayed.

2030- So is the Nuklon reliant on a super heavy rocket payload?

Its not looking good I might as well just follow CNSA at this point. NASA is too woke for me, Space X is a no unless they launch payloads with starship to orbit with a benefit of a doubt. I still follow Roscosmos but its starting to get tiresome of the I am too broke for this shit excuses.

Zeus/Nukleon requires A-5V, and Russia is fully committed to Angara.  Consider Angara as the "conventional" backup to the "innovative" methalox tech.

All is not as bad as it seems, and Russia is most definately not "broke"   It's not Rogozin who is proposing methalox but the boffins in Roskosmos and the Academy of Sciences.  Rogozin is just the guy who makes the final decision after all internal arguments are heard, and then presents the budget to the gov to argue the case.

Rogozin is an administrator, not an engineer, and AFAIK he has never claimed to be anything but.

The truth is that Russian plans for the next 10 years can be met using Angara A-5M and A-5V.  They have a decade to develop a SHLV, and it will an an expensive endeavour, so they need to get it right.  If the knowledgeable people in Russia think that methalox and reuseability is the best way forward then that is what they should aim for.  Never mind the armchair experts (like us   ) or the perennial Russia-hating Space-eX groupies.


CNSA are looking good at this point, and the Chinese are developing some real momentum. Russia and China pooling their resources into a common lunar plan will be every bit as capable as the murkans and their Eurotrash satraps.

thegopnik wrote:https://ria.ru/20211004/energiya-1753024365.html so no moon race, They stated the final draft was to be done this fall, so another draft has to be made with methane engines than layout the costs before setting the plan in motion? I guess the previous design being 4 times cheaper than SLS was not enough to reach their goal. So I guess the only thing I am looking forward to is the Amur, I no longer know if they will ever build a moon base either because I wanted  Orel to be launched by the Yenisei with methane engines in 2028 but it seems Rogozin now has no idea since in the future is not giving us any time frame at all. So the problem is why the **** hasnt the company thought about the expenses before and just started with a methane engine solution alot more earlier than realizing it now that the kerosene engine approach was going to get cancelled anyways? Rogozin already gave the cost estimate comparison to the SLS, did he not consult with anyone that the price estimate was still not good enough as in lower costs before finally deciding saying ohh shit we can solve this by going methane? If Roscosmos is broke because Russia is economically broke than dont get anyones hopes up in the 1st place that you have moon project plans because you will definetly piss off the public which the majority of their population enjoys Russias achievements in space right behind their country's achievements in WW2.

The development of a super-heavy rocket in Russia was suspended, mainly for financial reasons, said the head of the flight of the Russian segment ISS, General Designer of the Rocket and Space Corporation (RSC) "Energia" Vladimir Solovyov.
"It's insanely expensive. They began to count, figured - hundreds of billions of trillions are obtained. The Minister of Finance does not understand this," he said at a scientific session at the Space Research Institute (IKI) of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

Earlier, the general director of the Samara Rocket and Space Center (RCC) "Progress" Dmitry Baranov told RIA Novosti that the company suspended the development of the technical project of a super-heavy class rocket, not ruling out that work could resume after clarifying the program.

Later chapter "Roscosmos" Dmitry Rogozin stated that a super-heavy rocket for flights on Moon in the previous form will not be created, and the funds will be directed to the creation of methane technologies, on the basis of which a new rocket will be built in the future.

2026- new methane rocket atleast to be put in service.

2028-2030 dates of using a super heavy rocket with lunar space craft to also land a person to the moon, along with launching lunar bases is now even further delayed.

2030- So is the Nuklon reliant on a super heavy rocket payload?

Its not looking good I might as well just follow CNSA at this point. NASA is too woke for me, Space X is a no unless they launch payloads with starship to orbit with a benefit of a doubt. I still follow Roscosmos but its starting to get tiresome of the I am too broke for this shit excuses.

That's very disappointing. I thought Yenisei would be built on the basis of Soyuz-5, which is a conventional kerosene rocket. Am I missing something?

This has been reported by Katya earlier I believe. They decided to change to a 4 Angara flight scheme, which they said would be much cheaper.

Tbh, I'm not surprised. Even in the 60s, NASA was struggling to convince Congress to fund Apollo, the cost of which was extremely high at that time. Imagine the price right now after all the inflation going on. There were a lot of reasons that justified the funding at that time for the US. I don't see Russia having the same reasons to justify the cost as of now, though. And SLS itself did face a lot of setbacks due to funding, even when it was based on existing tech.

Space, and space race for that matter, is not cheap. No new rockets doesn't mean lack of tech or incompetence like the trolls say.

Anyway, the way Roscosmos (and the Armed forces as well) get funding is through GPV program. They got a massive cut in 2015, but things will change in the next GPV (oil price going up =)))) )

Btw, instead of Amur, we could hope for Krylo-SV and Orel in the near future.

Russia to launch Luna-25 automatic station in July 2022 — Roscosmos

MOSCOW, October 5. / TASS /. The Luna-25 automatic station will be launched in July, while the Russian-European ExoMars mission - in September 2022, Head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin told the Channel One Russia.

"Next year, in July, we are planning a mission to the Moon (Luna-25). <...> And a nine-month mission to Mars (ExoMars) is scheduled on September," Rogozin said.

Earlier, the Roscosmos’ press service reported that the launch of Luna-25 was postponed from October 2021 to May 2022. Rogozin noted that the launch window opened in May and ended in October.

The automatic station will become Russia’s first domestic device on a natural satellite of the Earth. The Luna-26 mission is to be launched in 2024, Luna-27 - in 2025, and Luna-28 - in 2027-2028.

The start of the second half of the ExoMars mission was scheduled for 2018, however, it was postponed to 2020 and 2022. The Proton-M launch vehicle with the Briz-M upper stage are likely to be used for the launch from the Baikonur Cosmodrome.

https://tass.com/science/1345679

Moscow. October 4. INTERFAX.EN - In 2021, four launches of sOyuz-2 rockets with military satellites and the launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile were carried out at the Plesetsk cosmodrome, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation reported.
https://www.interfax.ru/russia/795051

...... but before this statement, we only knew about THREE.

thegopnik wrote:https://ria.ru/20211004/energiya-1753024365.html so no moon race, They stated the final draft was to be done this fall, so another draft has to be made with methane engines than layout the costs before setting the plan in motion? I guess the previous design being 4 times cheaper than SLS was not enough to reach their goal. So I guess the only thing I am looking forward to is the Amur, I no longer know if they will ever build a moon base either because I wanted  Orel to be launched by the Yenisei with methane engines in 2028 but it seems Rogozin now has no idea since in the future is not giving us any time frame at all. So the problem is why the **** hasnt the company thought about the expenses before and just started with a methane engine solution alot more earlier than realizing it now that the kerosene engine approach was going to get cancelled anyways? Rogozin already gave the cost estimate comparison to the SLS, did he not consult with anyone that the price estimate was still not good enough as in lower costs before finally deciding saying ohh shit we can solve this by going methane? If Roscosmos is broke because Russia is economically broke than dont get anyones hopes up in the 1st place that you have moon project plans because you will definetly piss off the public which the majority of their population enjoys Russias achievements in space right behind their country's achievements in WW2.

The development of a super-heavy rocket in Russia was suspended, mainly for financial reasons, said the head of the flight of the Russian segment ISS, General Designer of the Rocket and Space Corporation (RSC) "Energia" Vladimir Solovyov.
"It's insanely expensive. They began to count, figured - hundreds of billions of trillions are obtained. The Minister of Finance does not understand this," he said at a scientific session at the Space Research Institute (IKI) of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

Earlier, the general director of the Samara Rocket and Space Center (RCC) "Progress" Dmitry Baranov told RIA Novosti that the company suspended the development of the technical project of a super-heavy class rocket, not ruling out that work could resume after clarifying the program.

Later chapter "Roscosmos" Dmitry Rogozin stated that a super-heavy rocket for flights on Moon in the previous form will not be created, and the funds will be directed to the creation of methane technologies, on the basis of which a new rocket will be built in the future.

2026- new methane rocket atleast to be put in service.

2028-2030 dates of using a super heavy rocket with lunar space craft to also land a person to the moon, along with launching lunar bases is now even further delayed.

2030- So is the Nuklon reliant on a super heavy rocket payload?

Its not looking good I might as well just follow CNSA at this point. NASA is too woke for me, Space X is a no unless they launch payloads with starship to orbit with a benefit of a doubt. I still follow Roscosmos but its starting to get tiresome of the I am too broke for this shit excuses.

Too much panic, bro.

The space tug can be launched by two Angara-A5M rockets, the corresponding layout has already been shown at MAKS-2021 and Army-2021.

A superheavy rocket will appear exactly when there is a real need for it. If a multi-launch flight scheme to the Moon is implemented using Angara-A5M /A5B rockets, then a superheavy rocket may not even appear, since the military niche of its application is flights in the style of the Apollo program.
But we will be able to talk about real progress in space only when we can leave Earth's orbit using SOYUZ-class rockets that will not cost like a small city (as is the case with superheavy launch vehicles). Nuclear technology and the development of a gas turbine (damn translator, i mean, it's hypersonic propulsive direct-flow air-jet) engine can give us this.

Agree... the solution to travelling to Mars and beyond is not super heavy rockets, but more capable propulsion systems like nuclear.

When you decide to climb Mount Everest or walk to the South Pole you don't get the biggest ever backpack and just set off... you break it down into steps and you send provisions forward ahead of you so you pick up new provisions as you use up the stuff you are carrying... for the first climb on Mt Everest they had thousands of Sherpas setting up several bases at different heights on the way up the mountain so that the people that actually got to the top didn't have to carry everything all the way and be too tired for the final ascent.

By the time the first people landing on Mars are sent there will already be a base set up on Mars that is processing oxygen from the atmosphere and water ice from the ground so when they land they already have enough rocket fuel to carry a heavy load back to earth... remember every kg of weight will need hundreds or thousands of kgs of fuel to get it off the surface of Mars and all the way back the earth orbit where they could dock with a space station.

Being able to create rocket fuel from water ice on Mars means they could launch a much heavier craft from the Mars surface because it has less gravity and the atmosphere is much less dense so acceleration should be easier.

GarryB wrote:Agree... the solution to travelling to Mars and beyond is not super heavy rockets, but more capable propulsion systems like nuclear.

When you decide to climb Mount Everest or walk to the South Pole you don't get the biggest ever backpack and just set off... you break it down into steps and you send provisions forward ahead of you so you pick up new provisions as you use up the stuff you are carrying... for the first climb on Mt Everest they had thousands of Sherpas setting up several bases at different heights on the way up the mountain so that the people that actually got to the top didn't have to carry everything all the way and be too tired for the final ascent.

By the time the first people landing on Mars are sent there will already be a base set up on Mars that is processing oxygen from the atmosphere and water ice from the ground so when they land they already have enough rocket fuel to carry a heavy load back to earth... remember every kg of weight will need hundreds or thousands of kgs of fuel to get it off the surface of Mars and all the way back the earth orbit where they could dock with a space station.

Being able to create rocket fuel from water ice on Mars means they could launch a much heavier craft from the Mars surface because it has less gravity and the atmosphere is much less dense so acceleration should be easier.

The robots shall pave the way!

The only question is which will they reach first, Mars or Washington...

The Soyuz MS spacecraft with the first-ever "cinema crew" has been launched into orbit

COSMODROME BAIKONUR / Kazakhstan /, October 5. / TASS /. The Soyuz MS-19 manned spacecraft, carrying cosmonaut Anton Shkaplerov, actress Yulia Peresild and director Klim Shipenko, separated from the third stage of the Soyuz-2.1a launch vehicle and began an autonomous flight to the station, an announcer at the cosmodrome said. Baikonur.

The Soyuz-2.1a rocket was launched on Tuesday from the 31st site of Baikonur at 11:55 Moscow time. The rendezvous with the ISS will take place according to a two-orbit scheme and will take approximately 3 hours and 17 minutes. Docking with the ISS Rassvet module is scheduled for 15:12 Moscow time on the same day.

Experts recorded the deployment of the Soyuz MS-19 spacecraft solar batteries. "There is a disclosure of solar panels and antennas of a manned spacecraft," the official Twitter of Roskosmos said.

The trainings of the actress and director at the Cosmonaut Training Center have been held since May. During this time, they underwent technical, physical, psychological and other types of training. The actress and director fly to the ISS to film a space drama, tentatively titled The Challenge, about a female doctor who flies into orbit to save an astronaut's life. Russian cosmonauts - Shkaplerov, Oleg Novitsky and Petr Dubrov will also take part in the filming of the film.

Peresild and Shipenko will spend 12 days in orbit and return to Earth on the Soyuz MS-18 spacecraft together with cosmonaut Novitsky, who has been on the ISS since April. On October 17, Novitsky will return to Earth, Shkaplerov and Dubrov will spend another 174 days at the station. The Russian crew members of the ISS will meet the Soyuz MS-20 manned spacecraft with space tourists and the Soyuz MS-21 with cosmonauts, the Progress MS-18 cargo spacecraft, the Prichal nodal module, perform three spacewalks on integration multipurpose laboratory module "Science".

source

thegopnik wrote:NASA is trying to get the 1st woman and 1st colored person to the moon

edgytarian post

lyle6 wrote:

thegopnik wrote:NASA is trying to get the 1st woman and 1st colored person to the moon

1st corpses as well. Didn't one of their female astronauts suffer a mental breakdown and started drilling random holes inside the ISS? I expect some sheboon to just go to town and wreck the space craft after 2 days without KFC...

They will first engage in woke identity-defined fornication. Because that is the most important thing in the modern west.

lyle6 wrote:

thegopnik wrote:NASA is trying to get the 1st woman and 1st colored person to the moon

1st corpses as well. Didn't one of their female astronauts suffer a mental breakdown and started drilling random holes inside the ISS? I expect some sheboon to just go to town and wreck the space craft after 2 days without KFC...

This genuinely made me laugh

There is news that Marker robots will be used to guard Roskosmos installations.

Hole wrote:
There is news that Marker robots will be used to guard Roskosmos installations.

On the basis of these robots, they plan to create new automated rovers for exploring other planets.
https://t.me/rogozin_do/1131

source

They redescovered one of the Soviet rovers on the moon and its location has been very useful because it had a corner reflector on board... a corner reflector is a device that captures light directed at it and it reflects it back in the direction it came from... like a reflector on a bike... you shine a light on it at night and it lights up like it has lights in it.

Ground based lasers have been able to make very precise measurements of the moon and its distance to us by reflecting laser beams from this corner reflector.

Angara in Plessetsk

Big_Gazza wrote:

source

The launch mass of the disposable rocket will be 23.6 tons. It will be able to put 584 kilograms of cargo into low Earth orbit (200 kilometers), and 84 kilograms into geostationary orbit. The reusable rocket will be heavier — 25 tons. It will be able to deliver 398 kilograms of cargo to near—Earth orbit, and 60 kilograms to geostationary orbit.

I may be wrong, but the onboard control system and the warhead fit within the limits of the declared mass. It turns out that the Ministry of Defense has just announced that in a couple of years it will be able to shoot down satellites on GSO?