[Official] Armata Discussion thread #6

galicije83 wrote:
And we will see pictures of destroyed t14, a ls we see of t90m, and many other tanks by mines...last 2-3 90m's was mined buy mines...what if UKrainians capture one, dmg buy mine..they will sent to us for evaluation...in my opinion this testing are wrong. They send t90m to us for testing, to see how relict works..this is wrong buy russians, because their enemy isnt some.tribe in midle east..its same people as they who knows how to fight and they are not chickens...

It would be a worrying prospect, if only NATO still possess the industrial capability to exploit the unwilling tech transfer.

As it is, they don't even have the manufacturing capability to make one off new hulls for their show pieces with the AbramsX, Panther and EMBT all notably remanufactured from existing vehicles as do most of their export sales. That's the bare minimum height to ride the armor train and the West is already scrambling for platform shoes.

NATO's ultra optimized (for grift, not military utility, what else?) worldwide supply chains are also retardedly vulnerable to all kinds of external shocks (like Germany and Europe deindustrializing at the worst time lol).

Meanwhile the Russian MIC has just passed the ultimate stress test in history face tanking the tightest sanctions levied on technology designed to make the Russians retvrn.

But they didn't just beat the sanctions they became even stronger - developing existing and nascent capabilities and establishing strong trade links both overt and covert to key suppliers even those from the West itself.

And I sincerely doubt the West is even capable of the ingenuity and creativity the Russians have displayed in salvaging and revitalizing their lost strength, or they when looting and pillaging their own industries.

So it simply doesn't matter if Russia ships NATO a fresh T-14 from the factory combat equipped and fitted with all the bells and whistles from the UVZ catalog - what use is perfect information when you don't possess the means to make it a reality in the first place?

Shit your boxers if they give one to China though.

Arrow wrote:
Monolith and Malachit are different ERAs or the same just under a different name?

Malachite is the heavy ERA developed for the Object-195. It may or may not be related to Relikt. It would be at least a generation ahead of Relikt in any case and the latter is already the benchmark for heavy ERA. I wouldn't worry about it though - find a way to get a projectile intact through Afghanit's iron curtain first then we'll talk.

And we will see pictures of destroyed t14, a ls we see of t90m, and many other tanks by mines...last 2-3 90m's was mined buy mines...what if UKrainians capture one, dmg buy mine..they will sent to us for evaluation..

These are weapons of war, if you can't use it in a war then it is not much use.

The Syrians already captured T-90s and T-90s in service in India could just as easily be compromised anyway.

Nothing stays secret for long... if one gets captured then often that means money is invested in upgrading everything to minimise the damage in the compromise... often leading to a better upgrade than most.

They send t90m to us for testing, to see how relict works..this is wrong buy russians, because their enemy isnt some.tribe in midle east..its same people as they who knows how to fight and they are not chickens...

Their enemy are not idiots, but if you can't test your best stuff how do you know it will work when you need it?

If they only equip one unit with them have some Su-34s on standby and if they lose one to mines or it gets captured then drop laser guided 1,500kg bombs on it... in fact build in a self defence system that emits a guidance signal that improves the accuracy of guided weapons to hit it for when it might be captured or lost on the battlefield.

Not sure if anyone of you saw a crosscut of a malachite gem, but that would help

Some of their names are not just because they sound cool, but because the product has those features... bit like Terminator...

I totally forgot about this video! Saw it on sturgeonhouse. Remember i heard rumors that monolit is based upon a unique kind of energetic discharge. The monolit on glacis plate and side skirts freaking glows in infrared

Timestamp for part in yt video around 3:25

T90 isnt that advance as it T14. Its upgraded T72, well known to the USA. With destroying ir capturing T14 it will be big slap to the Russians, also they will gave them to see how is made T14, for Ruusia not export version if it., How many times Russians fled from battlefield leaving brocken tanks almost intact. Instead you trow fking granade inside tank and he will be blown up, they just leave them for ukrainians to recover them, and later used them against them...is it har to trow fking granade inside them...if i loose it you do not have it to use it against me...

Same will be with T14....

Agree that the T14 should be held back but the snipes at Russians not blowing up their tanks from the aberration of the early phase of this war is silly.

They are weapons of war and are useless if they can't be used for the risk they might be destroyed or captured.

With just one force using the new stuff they can allocate forces to destroy equipment to prevent it falling into enemy hands.

The west seems to be so far behind in modern metallurgy that capturing some T-14s would be interesting... perhaps a shock about how far they are behind might be a good thing... what are they going to do to catch up... spend more money?

The T-14 is not alien technology, the entire design philosophy will take a while for the US to absorb... their own attempts at vehicle families have been complete failures so far.

If they only deploy a dozen T-14s or two or three dozen then it would not be that hard to keep aircraft available to destroy any lost T-14s with a 1.5 ton bomb if they needed to.

GarryB wrote:If they only deploy a dozen T-14s or two or three dozen then it would not be that hard to keep aircraft available to destroy any lost T-14s with a 1.5 ton bomb if they needed to.

The T72 , T80 and other Russian tanks, have a peculiar feature: in order to increase firepower, the main cannon is not loaded with one shell at a time, instead it's been connected to an 8-round magazine placed just inside the turret.

It does increase firepower, but the downside's that when the turret's hit by an anti-tank missile, the whole magazine blows up and the turret takes off, delivering by the way an extremely unpleasant experience to the tank crew.

I totally forgot about this video! Saw it on sturgeonhouse. Remember i heard rumors that monolit is based upon a unique kind of energetic discharge. The monolit on glacis plate and side skirts freaking glows in infrared

When you say it glows... keep in mind that this is a thermal imager... you can set a different temperature for a different colour so really when you say it glows, what you actually mean is that the ERA is a slightly different temperature from the rest of the tank.

Notice the wheels and tracks glow on all the vehicles in this parade and you can see where the engine compartments and engine exhausts are because they glow brightly.

You might burn your hand on the engine or engine exhaust bits that are visible, but the tracks wont be more than 20-30 degrees C... they glow relative to the rest of the vehicle because that is the brightness scale of the thermal device.

If this parade was in a desert country in the middle of the day the background colour would be hotter than the tank, which is why some IIR guided weapons fail in very hot climates where in the arctic you see a 38 degree Celsius human against a minus 5 Celsius background of snow and ice, but in a jungle where the jungle is 40 degrees and the human is almost 40 degrees you will have trouble finding anyone... day or night... with thermals.

The T72 , T80 and other Russian tanks, have a peculiar feature: in order to increase firepower, the main cannon is not loaded with one shell at a time, instead it's been connected to an 8-round magazine placed just inside the turret.

You mean the T-72 and T-90 have a 22 round underfloor magazine of ammo and the T-80 has a 28 round underfloor magazine, and the two parts of the rounds are loaded at a time, with the projectile going in first followed by the propellent stub.

On the new T-90s there is a small container with an extra 8 rounds between the rear of the turret and the engine, but as there are only two people in the turret you don't just flick a switch and start using those like they are in the main autoloader.

It does increase firepower, but the downside's that when the turret's hit by an anti-tank missile, the whole magazine blows up and the turret takes off, delivering by the way an extremely unpleasant experience to the tank crew.

There is no tank on the planet where the crew could survive the main gun ammo exploding if hit... except possibly the T-14.

Is Europe conducting secret negotiations with Russia ?

I hope not... unless they are selling the US out...

GarryB, how many times we see Russians left their dmg tanks. They just run from them, and left them to get pick up from Ukrainians. Is it hard to throw fking granade in it to plow it up but no..they left them on the fields, roads...We see 3-4 capture T-90M when they have only blow up tracks, left them in woods in Harkov...INow one of them is sent to Germany to evaluation of armor, gun, rounds...they are same as Arabs....

Nah the strategy of trying to cow the Zelensky gov failed and then the troops were stuck there with their dicks blowing in the breeze. Was a bad series of blunders but there is much we dont know and I'm not going to trust Ukrainian or turk media sources.

The serb posters seem quite pissed the last couple weeks!

GarryB, how many times we see Russians left their dmg tanks. They just run from them, and left them to get pick up from Ukrainians.

It is not their job to recover their tank... they operate the tank and if it is disabled they abandon it and withdraw to safety... it is the responsibility of other forces to recover equipment and vehicle.

Compromising technology is a great way to get upgrades and improvements, but even if they don't so what...

It will take the west a while to learn how to make tanks as good as the T-90 and when they have Russian crews will be driving around in T-14s and K-14s and B-14s...

China got the detailed plans of the F-35, but you don't hear western "experts" claiming it is now useless... even though it always was.

It is a tool... like a rifle or a submachine gun... as long as it keeps doing its job who cares who gets to look at it.

Is it hard to throw fking granade in it to plow it up but no..they left them on the fields, roads...We see 3-4 capture T-90M when they have only blow up tracks, left them in woods in Harkov...INow one of them is sent to Germany to evaluation of armor, gun, rounds...they are same as Arabs....

Maybe they don't care... maybe the west needs a fucking lesson on what a real tank is and maybe those german and french and british and american cunts might realise they are not the centre of the universe and human civilisation and that Russia will **** them up if they don't stop with this bullshit...

Or maybe they have the T-14 so they don't care.

Would America go apeshit of some upgraded M60s got lost in Syria and Russia got them back to Russia to examine?

Ironically if examining the T-90 made the west realise how far behind they are that they have to spend trillions to upgrade their armoured forces and anti armour weapons then that might be a good thing for Russia too...

Actually, the T-14 boasts the unique position of being almost entirely impossible to capture by conventional means. For one, the vehicle implements for the first time a fully electronic control system that nobody outside of test crews of UVZ or select tankers of the Russian Army even knows about. You can hardly expect the average grunt to do the start up procedures for a plane, can you? The T-14 is now much the same. No more multiple generations of young men trained on the same piece of hardware or widespread documentation to fall back to. There could also be additional security measures like multiple factor authentications or hardware keys involved without which you would be staring at a 55 ton gate guard - if you can move it that is. Fortunately we have this video to attest to the immovability of the parking brake:

So yeah, I ain't worried. Not one bit.

Another point is that broken track or some minor thing that immobilises the tank and requires the crew to abandon it is one thing... they are helping no one by remaining in the vehicle risking capture, but once it is realised the enemy are going to capture it I think it is reasonable to have some way of destroying the vehicle completely to prevent the enemy just using it against Russian forces let alone handing it over to the west.

Perhaps some signal generator fitted to all their top secret stuff that 240mm mortar rounds are designed to home in on, so as the Russian forces withdraw a drone could be sent to monitor left behind Russian stuff and when the orcs are gathering around... perhaps even hooked the thing up for towing a half dozen Tulips could deliver 120kg HE shells guided directly to the armour they are towing and the ground around it... certainly something to consider.

Perhaps a small tactical nuke hidden in T-14s with satellite navigation system determining when they enter US territory or German territory and boom.

Start it up and it senses it is no longer in Kansas any more... and creates its own tornado... to go to Oz.

Perhaps the logic of military hardware should be to not worry if it gets captured. And perhaps that's a philosophy already applied. Perhaps that's why they don't give a **** about those ka-52 sitting in the middle of Ukraine or those t-90 being captured.

At then end anyone knows what a t-90 is at 90% because you already know it has a powerful 125mm gun that can destroy any of your vehicles and its protection, just like any otger tank, is good only on the frontal part and its top speed won't be used in a muddy terrain just like any other tank. You can analyze it all day long but at the end you already have the most valuable informations on wikipedia.

Most critical hardware to fall into enemy hands are jets, radars and missiles and EW. But even then there is not so much to learn from a jet that crashed on the ground at 800km/h. Radars can be updated and are updated regularly even without it falling into enemy hands. EW are so advanced and smart that it is useless to create a radar to bypass their jamming because they can adjust their jamming and be updated like radars.

And a note, I think when a pilot ejects from its plane, the ejection mecanism destroys the most sensitive items. Not sure about that but I read it somewhere.

How useful is it to have systems you can't risk falling into enemy hands if you use them.

They cost money to design and build so if you are not going to use them then it is probably better not to make them in the first place and save some money and time.

Of course your enemy is going to go through it looking for weaknesses, but then you should be interested in what they work out too because that will show you how they will counter your weapons.

There is no uber weapon that defeats all others and cannot be defeated, with tactics and counter technology you can defeat anything.

The revelation of how good the MiG-29 was with helmet mounted sight and high off boresight missiles and BVR missiles led to HATO fast tracking AMRAAM and for the US to stop funding the expensive ASRAAM the British were making and just put the new stuff on Sidewinder because they didn't want to fight WVR any more because even if you killed your enemy there was a good chance he would launch a missile at you before your missile killed him so he was probably going to kill you too, which made WVR combat suicide.

Letting your enemy pick apart you best weapons can help you find the weaknesses that need fixing and should be corrected completely on your next gen vehicle/weapon.

Measure and countermeasure is a continual process that never ends... destroying abandoned Russian T-90s in the Ukraine wont stop the CIA getting access to Indian T-90s on the sly, or from Ukrainian workers in the factories that make them sneaking plans and information out.

@alfa is it bad? he looks like a soyjak.

Amusingly he posted that video about it never reaching production right after serial production has started.

In just a short 8 years span Russia almost starting from scratch has built up the largest warstock of long range conventional missiles the world has ever seen - and used it in such great quantities that even the US in all of its wars combined couldn't even hope to match. They fired off more than 5000 Kalibrs, Kh-101s, Iskanders etc. in just one year alone, so at the minimum their total arsenal must have been at the very least double that when they started the SMO with continuing production around the thousand and still ramping up. And all of that from a Russian economy that's barely if at all mobilized.

Had Russia wanted to, it can drown NATO in a tsunami of bleeding edge steel. They already do, a single shift in the Russian armaments industry produces as much material as NATO and their coolies industries in a week. And the gap is only going to become bigger as the Russian MIC consolidates even further while Europe deindustrializes.