Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues
miketheterrible wrote:What I find frustrating is they rarely if ever show the missiles hit anything. While Iran and others do.
Isos wrote:miketheterrible wrote:What I find frustrating is they rarely if ever show the missiles hit anything. While Iran and others do.
They have special algorithms when it hit the target. If they show too much you can guess the typical final path of the missile. Then you can optimize jammers and evasive manoeuvres and reduce the Pk of the system.
They are right to not show it.
Russia's Izhevsk Electro-Mechanical Plant Kupol, a subsidiary of the Almaz-Antey Concern, has unveiled the latest iteration of the Tor 'SA-15 Gauntlet' short-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) system: the 9K331E Tor-E2.
Kupol promotes the Tor-E2 as "a new generation of the Tor family". The Tor-E2 is armed with 16 9M338KE ready-to-launch effectors in two eight-cell launch canisters, all of which can be replaced in 25 minutes.
Like other Tor family SAM systems, it is designed to engage fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft, various missiles (including cruise and anti-radiation ones), guided and gliding bombs, and unmanned aerial vehicles round the clock. The Tor-E2 system can simultaneously detect and process up to 48 targets at a range of up to 32,000 m, analyse the air picture and automatically select the most immediate threats, track 10 targets, and simultaneously engage four. The Tor-E2's combat vehicle (CV) can share target information with other CVs.
According to Kupol, the integration of the new missile has reinforced the system's combat performance: the Tor-E2 can engage an aerial target flying at a distance of up to 16,000 m and at an altitude of up to 12,000 m.
Like the Tor-M2E, the Tor-E2 is based on a tracked vehicle, producing a top speed of 65 km/h and a cruising range of 500 km. The system weighs 37 tonnes and is operated by a three-strong crew.
Propably the same procedure as with the Pantsir and S-350 = 4 small missiles instead of one "normal sized" one. Which means 64 missiles for each vehicle.
ИЖЕВСК, 19 сентября. /ТАСС/. Министерство обороны подпишет два контракта с Ижевским электромеханическим заводом "Купол" на поставки зенитных ракетных комплексов "Тор-М2" и "Тор-М2ДТ" почти на 100 млрд рублей. Об этом заявил в Ижевске президент России Владимир Путин на заседании Военно-промышленной комиссии.
"После заседания комиссии состоится еще одно важное событие. Между Ижевским заводом "Купол" и Минобороны будут подписаны два долгосрочных контракта на общую сумму почти 100 млрд рублей. В соответствии с ними, в 2019-2027 годах будут произведены и поставлены в войска дивизионные комплексы зенитно-ракетных комплексов "Тор-М2" и "Тор-М2ДТ", - сказал он.
По его словам, реализация этих контрактов укрепит позиции предприятия и станет важным вкладом в оснащение ВКС России новыми видами вооружений.
miketheterrible wrote:Wonder how many systems total?
GarryB wrote:This would mean that a 6 vehicle battery with 16 missiles per vehicle and able to track 10 targets each and launch at four targets at one time, meaning 60 targets tracked and 24 engaged at any one time could have another 6 trailers which are relatively cheap because they don't have radar etc, each with a further 16 missiles per vehicle, so instead of having 6 x 16 missiles (96) ready to fire they will have 12 x 16 (192).
miketheterrible wrote:Wonder how many systems total?
medo wrote:miketheterrible wrote:Wonder how many systems total?
Difficult to say as we don't know the price, but some estimate around 200 TELARs.
You're more optimistic and say 3 times to my 2 times 
Pantsir and Tor antiaircraft guns have to down cruise missiles, aircraft and drones. Formally, they need a brief stopover to fire. However, Syrian combat experience showed they have to destroy the attacking force in motion, e.g. if kamikaze drones attack. The assaults are mortally dangerous for marching hardware, the Izvestia daily writes.
Changes into Pantsir and Tor training system are being drafted. A set of new firing drills in motion will be tested at ranges in early 2020. If effective, the technique to repel surprise air raids will be adopted and massive training of the troops will begin in late 2020, the Defense Ministry said. Modern combat techniques demand maximum air defense mobility, former head of the antiaircraft missile forces Alexander Gorkov said. "Fire in motion has been already trained. Pantsir attacked both air and ground targets," he said.
The latest hostilities demonstrated that only a weapon capable of immediate fire can reliably protect the troops. Cruise missile and drone attacks are like a lightning and leave no time for preparations to repel them. Air defense weapons have to constantly move to survive. They should rapidly leave the position after they exhaust the round of munitions. It is not easy to adapt the weapons for such fire. Russian designers and engineers had to deal with major technical issues, Gorkov said. Even NATO countries have no short-range air defense weapons capable of firing in motion.
After stationary air defense repelled drone strikes at Russian bases in Syria, the militants began to attack the Syrian government army. It was a difficult task to defend it. The terrorists succeeded to destroy armored vehicles in motion with makeshift drones. The threat of modern drones and smart munitions is even higher. Big attack drones and loitering munitions operate in the armies which are no technological leaders. Surprise attacks against poorly protected columns on the march are a major tactical technique. Mobility is vital for the survival of the air defense weapons in the fight against modern arms.
The Russian army has several Pantsir and Tor modifications. They are all short-range weapons to protect military and civilian facilities, marching troops, accumulation areas and the frontline.
Tor-M2 is the latest weapon of the family. The range of its new missile is 20 km. It operates by one target - one missile principle. It can fire at four targets at a time. The first Tor modification could attack only one target.
Pantsir is the most perfect air defense weapon in the world. It can destroy air and ground targets by missiles and two 30mm guns. Modern conflicts confirmed the high effectiveness of the weapon. It is armed with 12 missiles with a range of 20 km, the Izvestia said.
The reports about bad performance of Pantsir(in comparison to Tor series) are true.
МОСКВА, 8 мая - РИА Новости. Российская армия в ближайшие годы получит 18 бригадных комплексов ПВО типа "Тор", "Бук" и С-300В4, контракты уже заключены, сообщил заместитель министра обороны РФ Алексей Криворучко.
"В целях планового переоснащения подразделений на новые зенитные ракетные системы и комплексы войскового ПВО заключены долгосрочные государственные контракты на закупку восьми бригадных комплектов ЗРК "Тор-М2", двух ЗРК "Тор-М2ДТ", семи ЗРК "Бук-МЗ" и одного комплекта ЗРС С-300В4", - сказал Криворучко журналу "Национальная оборона", майский номер которого выйдет из печати в ближайшие дни.
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