F-35 Lightning II: News thread

LMFS wrote:[b]US stops F-35 fighter jet parts delivery to Turkey[b]

“The United States has been clear that Turkey’s acquisition of the S-400 is unacceptable,” said acting Pentagon spokesman Charles Summers Jr. “Until they forgo delivery of the S-400, the United States has suspended deliveries and activities associated with the stand-up of Turkey’s F-35 operational capability. Should Turkey procure the S-400, their continued participation in the F-35 program is at risk.”

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2019-04-01/us-stops-f-35-fighter-jet-parts-delivery-to-turkey

The soap opera goes on, participation of Turkey in the program looking increasingly grim. Better for Turkey IMO...

3 major customers (France, German, Turkey) are now out of the program completely, and quite a few countries who've committed to purchases also have alternate 5th-gen programs (Japan, Italy, South Korea, Britain, Spain, Italy, The Netherlands) which ultimately will take money away from F-35 procurement......F-35 "White-Elephant" will be it's lasting legacy!

F-35Bs flew more than 100 combat sorties against the Taliban and ISIS while deployed aboard the amphibious assault ship USS Essex, said Lt. Col. Kyle Shoop, commander of Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 211.

I once went to a party and Kyle was there with his lovely wife, and also there was Dr. David Daniel Whopp, and his partner Helen Kharma, and their daughter Jessie Kharma and the local Buddist Monk, Whang Dang.

I believe the first song played at the event was Shoop Shoop D D Whopp, Kharma, Kharma... Whang Dang...

Yeah, I hope they fool them in to buying them... the economic burden of operating those bits of rubbish will mean they wont be able to afford much other serious crap that might actually pose a problem to Russia.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-09/japan-grounds-f-35-fleet-after-jet-disappears-radar-over-pacific

The F-35 has become literally invisible. The ultimate stealth!

There is major trouble in our aviation industry... It is obvious we can squeeze and pressure anyone to buy our products, but with such wide scale problems in our aviation, specifically with regards to software and electronics I really do not know what to say. I cannot defend such incompetence. Boeing was recently downgraded in stock outlook, and reputation has suffered a great deal. Troubling to see this problem so widespread in the industry. F-35 is really most troubling project I have seen. To see our industry press ahead with this and run smack dab into wall after wall is alarming at best deadly at worse, and the worse is being seen daily it seems now.

F-35 is futuristic looking crap specially made to be expensive to be sold to dogs and keep US economy runing while dogs keep being dependent on US and spend 3/4 of their money on planes that will cost them the other 1/4 to be maintained in flying condition.

F-16 was a US mistake as it was really cheap for US standards. That's why last f-16 coast more than 100 million each. They are trying to make money on the last f-16 because first one were not profitavle enough.

If Russia somewhat stumbles upon the F-35 wreck in international waters, will it be lawful to bring the pieces to Russia for some inspections?

PhSt wrote:If Russia somewhat stumbles upon the F-35 wreck in international waters, will it be lawful to bring the pieces to Russia for some inspections?

Who cares about law. Once the f-35 in russia, US can only stroke themselves with sanctions. They will never see it back.

If Russia somewhat stumbles upon the F-35 wreck in international waters, will it be lawful to bring the pieces to Russia for some inspections?

The US decided to recover and inspect parts of a Golf class SSBN during the cold war, so I don't know what has changed since then...

There is major trouble in our aviation industry... It is obvious we can squeeze and pressure anyone to buy our products, but with such wide scale problems in our aviation, specifically with regards to software and electronics I really do not know what to say. I cannot defend such incompetence. Boeing was recently downgraded in stock outlook, and reputation has suffered a great deal. Troubling to see this problem so widespread in the industry. F-35 is really most troubling project I have seen. To see our industry press ahead with this and run smack dab into wall after wall is alarming at best deadly at worse, and the worse is being seen daily it seems now.

The sad thing is that the people in charge think the problems can be fixed with a bandage, but Frankensteins monster needs more than a little bandage to make it look pretty...

It is logic taken too far... on paper having one basic aircraft design to replace all the fourth gen fighters in the west sounds like a good idea... it saves money to have one fighter design across the board on land and at sea and for the marines... but when the whole programme costs 1.5 trillion dollars and each plane costs between 100 and 130 million dollars each, then you really have to ask yourself if this was done to save money or to achieve a monopoly where everyone has to buy from you.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201904101074002322-japanese-f35-russia-capture-danger/

US are really afraid that could happen. Would be so funny if Russia or China gind it on their shores and the 1.5 trillion $ program is dead before even strarting.

Isos wrote:https://sputniknews.com/military/201904101074002322-japanese-f35-russia-capture-danger/

US are really afraid that could happen. Would be so funny if Russia or China gind it on their shores and the 1.5 trillion $ program is dead before even strarting.

After stealing the MiG-25 they could not say too much I guess

F-35s doing what F-35s do best.... making the Pacific Ocean slightly deeper for those threatened Pacific Islands.

Can it do anything right?

But I love the butt hurt scrabble to protect their secrets... trying to recover lost aircraft or ships etc is their game more than anyone elses.

The way they get away with it is having the best marketing department in the world and of course a media that doesn't care about the truth or the people... the western media is just a branch extension of the US State Department, and the US MIC marketing division... anybody who steps out of line ends up like Assange or Snowden... and if Manning was squealing on Chinese or Russian secrets he would be the darling of the western media like Vagina Riot....

F35 accidents:

On 23 June 2014, an F-35A's engine caught fire just before a training flight at Eglin Air Force Base. The pilot escaped unharmed. Engine parts from the burned aircraft were discovered on the runway, indicating a substantial engine failure. The accident caused all training to be halted on 25 June, and all flights halted on 3 July. The fleet was returned to flight on 15 July with restrictions in the flight envelope. Preliminary findings suggested that excessive rubbing of the engine fan blades created increased stress and wear and eventually resulted in catastrophic failure of the fan.

In early June 2015, the USAF Air Education and Training Command (AETC) issued its official report, which blamed the failure of the third stage rotor of the engine's fan module. The report explained that "pieces of the failed rotor arm cut through the engine's fan case, the engine bay, an internal fuel tank, and hydraulic and fuel lines before exiting through the aircraft's upper fuselage". Pratt & Whitney, the engine manufacturer, developed two remedies to the problem. The first is an extended "rub-in" to increase the gap between the second stator and the third rotor integral arm seal. The second is the redesign to pre-trench the stator. Both were scheduled for completion by early 2016. Cost of the problem was estimated at US$50 million. All aircraft resumed operations within 25 days after the incident.

The F-35 first crashed on 28 September 2018, when a USMC F-35B crashed near Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort, South Carolina, after the pilot ejected safely.[514][515] All F-35s were grounded until each could be inspected for a faulty engine fuel line, and the line replaced if necessary.

On 9 April 2019, a JSDF F-35A attached to Misawa Air Base disappeared from radar during a training mission over the Pacific Ocean, when it was about 84 miles (135 km) east of the Aomori Prefecture. The aircraft was confirmed to have crashed after debris from it was found on the water. The fate of the pilot is still unknown.

Su30 Accidents (best selling Russian plane since su-35 has little orders)

On 30 April 2009 a Su-30MKI crashed in the Pokhran region of Rajasthan, at Rajmathai village, around 170 km from Jaisalmer, after departing Pune for a routine sortie, killing one of its two pilots. Defence minister A K Antony announced that the likely cause of the crash was "failure of the fly-by-wire system". The fleet was grounded for around three weeks. However, it was found that the crash was caused by the incorrect position of critical switches behind the pilots and outside their field of view. The aircraft crashed when a critical switch was toggled disabling the flight control system. Critical switches identified by investigators were inhibited. Wing Commander P. S. Nara was killed in the mishap, due to the failure of an ejection seat component that was weakened by sun exposure.

On 30 November 2009 a Su-30MKI crashed in Jathegaon, about 40 km from Jaisalmer after a fire warning. Both aircrew ejected safely. As a result, the entire fleet of Su-30MKIs was grounded while the cause of the problem was investigated. It was attributed to accidental ingestion of a foreign material in the engine intake.
On 13 December 2011, a Su-30MKI crashed, with both the pilots ejecting safely. The aircraft had taken off from the Lohegaon Indian Air Force Base near Pune, crashing at Wade-Bholai village, 20 kilometres from Pune. Preliminary reports said that the crash was due to a malfunction in the fly-by-wire system. Wing Commander Gurkirat Singh Sohal, the pilot of the plane, was conferred with the Vayu Sena Medal (Gallantry).

O on 19 February 2013 a Su-30MKI crashed at the Pokhran range during the rehearsal of the Iron Fist Exercise. Just after completing a training mission, the aircraft's right wing exploded, both the pilots ejected safely with no damage to any property or life on ground. A Court of Inquiry was ordered to investigate the crash, and later, the WSO Wing Commander Gaurav Bikram Singh Chauhan was awarded the Vayu Sena Medal (Gallantry) for his act of exceptional courage.

On 14 October 2014, a Su-30MKI on a training mission crashed 20 km off Pune Lohegaon Air Force Station. The two pilots were abruptly ejected before landing. In early November 2014, a team of Russian experts came to India to evaluate the IAF Su-30 fleet, which was grounded after the crash. Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha denied that the pilots ejected deliberately, but Irkut blamed it on pilot error. The court of inquiry did not attribute the crash to either malfunctioning ejection seats or the pilots and ended inconclusively.

On 19 May 2015, and Indian Su-30MKI crashed at Laokhowa in Nagaon district of Assam with both the pilot and co-pilot ejecting safely

On 15 March 2017, a Su-30MKI crashed in Rajasthan's Barmer district, injuring three villagers. Both pilots ejected safely.

On 23 May 2017, a Su-30MKI crashed approximately 60 km from Tezpur Air Force Station; the two crew members were killed.

On 27 June 2018, a Su-30MKI crashed near Nashik, India, while doing pre-delivery trials before handing over to India Air Force. Both the test pilots safely ejected before the crash.

I will wait for the mental gymnastics to begin lol

MiamiMachineShop wrote:Su30 Accidents (best selling Russian plane since su-35 has little orders)

Su-30MKI.

1. Built by Indians
   
2. Truckload of Western parts
   

There's been 3 Su-30 crashes to date. One from a non-Russian user. In the span of 27 years.

That said, the issue at hand are not crashes. F-35B's operational availability is close to 0%. F-35 other models have an operational availability of <50%.

F-35 relies on millions of programing codes in its softwares. There will always be bugs and crashes because of that. Specially if they keep changinh the softwares every two months. Just like the Boeing Max series of crashes because of a software that worked correctly for a time and then they realized it was bullshit.

But a f-35 that crashes on a carrier can have devastating consequencies specially if it loaded with bombs and doing vertical take off or landing.

This soap opera keeps on getting better :

The USA could not transfer to Japan the updated version of OBOGS F-35

As previously reported, during the operation of the American multifunctional fighter-bomber of the fifth generation F-35 revealed a number of technical problems. One of the serious problems was the unexpected deterioration of the pilots' state of health during the flight.



Pilots complained of dizziness, tingling in the fingers and partial loss of vision. After research, it was found that these symptoms are similar to oxygen starvation due to disruption of the oxygen supply system.

The F-35 is equipped with an OBOGS (OnBoard Oxygen Generating System) used in US aviation since the 1990s. In addition to the F-35 , problems with this system arose on the F-18 and F-22 aircraft . Pilots often find themselves in a situation close to loss of consciousness. Moreover, this was manifested even for those military pilots whose experience was very great.

OBOGSdesigned to provide the pilot with respiratory mixture during the flight. The system pumps the outside air into a special receiver, where it is cleaned from nitrogen and other gases, and the already purified mixture with a predominance of oxygen is supplied to the pilot.

The OBOGS complex has several breathing mix control systems. One controls the rate of oxygen supply to the pilot's mask, based on the speed of the aircraft, the difference in atmospheric pressure inside and outside, and the overloads experienced. The other, based on chemical analysis of the breathing mixture, is responsible for the oxygen content in it.

As part of the investigation, it was found that the main cause of violations of the supply of respiratory mixture in the F-35was the use of non-standard regulator of oxygen supply in the OBOGS system , which ceased to function at certain positions of the aircraft. It was noted that the system actually stopped working in a situation when the plane was moving in a certain angular interval.

Previously, it was also found that some elements of the F-35 quickly corrode - precisely because of the influence on them of "pure" oxygen.

Considering these faults, Lockheed Martin already had to spend millions of dollars to finalize the F-35 fighter bomber. However, the Japanese disaster could make new adjustments to this work. The fact is that experts consider it possible that the American manufacturer did not transfer to Japan the updated OBOGS technology, as a result of which the pilot of the F-35 assembled in Japan could faint (if the oxygen supply system was abnormal). The first suspicions about this expressed in Japan. Officials do not comment on these statements.

The search for the Japanese pilot continues. The F-35 on-board recorder that fell into the waters of the Pacific, as previously reported, is located at a depth of about 1500 m.

https://translate.yandex.com/translate?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftopwar.ru%2F156729-plohoe-samochuvstvie-pilotov-f-35-v-processe-poletov.html&lang=ru-en

The committee that came up with the "every piece of hardware has to be a computer running apps" concept needs to be lined up against a wall and
machine gunned. Nothing more moronic than software driven aircraft parts could be conceived. Did these morons really think that they would
use the F-35 in 2200 and just have to do software updates in the interim? Is this how this overpriced crap was sold to the credulous politicians?
Pay more now, but pay much less later? Seriously...

I am also having a hard time grasping what they need the software for. I can understand the integration of detection systems and
threat tracking. But why would that interfere with the basic functionality of this jet? Detection does not affect the rudders, engine
operation, etc. Are they trying to actually design a drone that does not require a pilot? Then the overlap in software across disparate
systems begins to make more sense. I suppose that a merged drone and piloted framework makes sense since it saves money and
allows for a learning transition where a pilot is present and prevents drones from endlessly crashing. It would also make sense if
they were using the pilots as inputs into a machine-learning framework that would serve as the base of the drone AI in the future.

PapaDragon wrote:
Japan's F-35A jets in 7 emergency landings prior to Pacific crash

https://mainichi.jp/articles/20190416/k00/00m/040/225000c

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190417/p2a/00m/0na/006000c

So it was a F-35A and not a F-35B II, which means the entire program is FUBAR'd. The common belief was that the safer/conservative F-35A (without VTOL) was alright, and the more ambitious F-35B was the problem, but it seems like every where you look there's new issues that affects the entirety of the program.

It's hilarious how some people down play the unintended consequences of kicking the Turks out of the supply chain....sure you can find a replacement, but where will it be located? In the UK, US, or the EU? Just check the exchange rate of Turkish Lira, compared to the British Pound Sterling, the Euro or the US Dollar, and tell me that moving the supply chains in to those places (with the relevant currencies) won't affect pricing metrics? BTW it looks like the F-35 program is already facing supply chain challenges as it is:

High intensity flaking of F-35 stealth coating

Aircraft F-35 have serious problems with combat readiness. A report from one of the relevant US ministries claims that 30 percent of the time machines are on the ground for reasons related to the lack of spare parts and special materials.



The government's accountability office, which released a report on the state of the JFS program, paints a sad picture of the organizational chart for maintaining low profile fighters. The maintenance of combat readiness of fighters suffers because of delays in the supply of spare parts, and the situation is probably worsening.

In general, the combat readiness of the fleet of subtle fighters from May to November 2018 reached 50 percent for all versions of the F-35. 29.7% is the percentage of time that aircraft could not take to the air due to the problem described above. In the remaining periods, the figure decreased, but very little - up to 20 percent.

"The supply chain of the F-35 does not have enough spare parts to keep the aircraft in flight for the time needed to meet the combat readiness requirements."

- the document says.

The situation is worsening

The situation is worsening if we take into account the possible termination of the F-35 contract with Turkey. Ankara manufactures elements of the fuselage and displays, hatches of internal armament compartments and many other elements. None of these elements is extremely important, but in the event of a cessation of supplies, the Pentagon will have to increase production from other suppliers or look for new contractors in order to fill the shortage of products. This can both delay deliveries and chain to the ground even more aircraft.

The US military has a task, designated by Jim Mattis when he was his secretary of defense, to bring the F-35 to 80% of its combat readiness by the end of 2019. The data from the report show that this goal is still far away.

The combat readiness of fighters in the United States Air Force is measured according to several criteria. One of them is how many squadron aircraft can perform at least one of their missions. The intermediate task was to achieve 60 percent readiness. Reach it failed.

When assessing the criterion of full combat readiness - that is, the aircraft is able to perform all its combat missions - the results were even worse. Only 2 percent of the F-35C achieved the desired state, with the F-35B the situation was only slightly better - 16%, and only the F-35A approached the goal, but less than half: in tests, he received 34 percent.

The administration is extremely skeptical about the likelihood of achieving a goal of 80 percent primary readiness and even more critical of the plans of the Ministry of Defense for the purchase of spare parts in the coming years.

According to the department, the number of spare parts, although indicated for the nominal figure of 80 percent of primary readiness, but in reality will give at best the opportunity to reach the figure of 70%, since the purchase of parts does not take into account aircraft for long-term maintenance.

At the moment, the backlog from the schedule in the logistics of the supply of parts is approximately 4,300 pieces.



Logistics system does not work

Especially in order to avoid such problems has been developed autonomous logistics information system F-35 - ALIS. It is designed to track parts and automate the process of creating and speeding up work orders. However, it does not work as it should. The ALIS subsystems do not interact with each other properly, therefore, “manual” control is still required.

Coating problems

Among other things, some of the details do not correspond to the initially stated parameters. For example, a stealth coating exfoliates at an increased rate, which creates an increased demand for these parts. It is the exfoliation of the stealth coverage with an intensity that was not originally planned that leads to the fact that for a number of squadrons the supplies have stalled. Dozens of aircraft of the new generation are forced to stand in hangars and expect recovery.

The situation reached such a critical state that the squadrons had to be engaged in extracting spare parts from one aircraft and installing them on others. This practice has created several problems at once, and one of them is that there is a real amount of lack of detail. In addition, as it turned out this practice caused the deterioration of the flight characteristics.

Meanwhile, Lockheed Martin reports on improving the situation and claims that it has taken key steps to improve the logistics system and the availability of parts, stressing that some squadrons still reached 70 percent alert.

"Our goal is to further reduce costs to $ 25,000 per flight hour, which will be comparable to the cost of previous generation aircraft."

- said the company.

https://translate.yandex.com/translate?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftopwar.ru%2F157323-f-35-okazalis-prikovany-k-zemle-iz-za-nehvatki-zapchastej.html&lang=ru-en

....Surprise, F-35 'Cooked Goose' will be a Hangar Queen....shocker?!?!

All big nations buying f-35 have domestic 5th generation fighter programs. South korea, UK, Turkey, japan ... they will most likely copy f-35 tech and won't buy that much of them.

Agree with you on the price. Something made in UK or japan will be 10 times more expensive than in turkey and customers will feel it. They can use that to cancel some f-35s without paying penalities.

Agree with you on the price. Something made in UK or japan will be 10 times more expensive than in turkey and customers will feel it. They can use that to cancel some f-35s without paying penalities.

But if they cancel orders and reduce production numbers then the cost per aircraft will spiral out of control.

If you think the 200 you ordered were too expensive at 150 million US dollars each... then cancelling half of them and just buying 100 means the price for those 100 will go up dramatically and you might find yourself paying even more for much less....

ie at 150 million times 200 aircraft, that is 30 billion dollars... geez... 30,000 million dollars.

If you cut it down to 100 aircraft you might think that it will only cost half... 15 billion dollars... but it wont. The price is based on them making 3,500 aircraft so if they are making less aircraft then the aircraft they do make will suddenly become much more expensive to cover costs and of course spare parts will also become more expensive too, so instead of getting 200 aircraft for 30 billion you might get 100 aircraft for 20 billion... you do save 10 billion dollars but you lose 100 aircraft to do so and are now paying 200 million per aircraft... I can see why Turkey wants the S-400 to be honest... it is a face saving out of a really bad situation...

It is also another corruption factor... by pretending the US and all her allies are going to replace their entire fighter inventory with this new aircraft we can massage the figures so it looks like the plane will just get cheaper and cheaper over time as more and more are built and because everyone uses the same spare parts they will be made in enormous numbers for everyone so they will become cheap and you can share them in an emergency in combat or exercise.

With the F-22 the promise was 1,500 would be made to start with which meant they could promise it would be much cheaper than it ever was going to be... then it became 750 was the absolute minimum they could get away with making and still have a viable force... in the end they made 189... and it was expensive.

The real question is... with all the money already spent on the F-35 it is hard to tell if they only make 900 if that would be a good thing or a bad thing... because often making too many is worse than making none at all especially if the problems never get fixed and offer an easy access point for the enemy to interfere in your aircrafts systems in a combat situation...