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    F-35 Development and News Thread:

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    nemrod
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Tue May 28, 2013 10:47 pm

    gaurav wrote:
    But 200 millions per aircraft, little crazy.
    200 million /aircraft then what do you say of a country like India ..

    which is buying rafale crap for another 200 millions usd/aircraft.
    126 aircraft for a potential 20 billionUSD deal. It looks like a GDP of a medium sized country..


    Sorry gaurav, but the Rafale's price is 90 millions €, it is somewhat far from 200 millions/aircraft for F-35. Moreover indian GDP is in better conditions, and in better state than US crippling collapsing economy.
    Beside the shamefully shinning wall street's dividends, you have nearly 50 millions US eating from food stamps program, 100 millions did not eat well, nearly half of people has money problem, furthermore, no medical care.
    Obviously, if you compare to India, yes being hungry in USA, is somewhere better to be hungry in India. Because in US Army hires wery well, indeed, you can find easilly jobs, but don't come back without leg or arm after a war,... no more money for hospitals.

    Concerning this deal with Rafale, in fact France will loose in this transaxtion, because of technology transfert. in fact India is developping its AMCA, hence need western technology, even though India spent much money, it will retrieve the precious know-how. In few years India won't need western technology.

    Back to our subject, we are far from US JSF 200 millions/unity No, US is still believing they are before 2008, spend money, and world will pay your deficit. Now the BRICS became a reality, great power, and no question to pay any US deficit, for that reason US is looking for a small war in order to keep the confidence, and seeming the number 1, dreaming of its lost empire, where everybody had to speak english, as I had to. However the back to the reality will be a huge shock.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  BTRfan on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:32 am

    nemrod wrote:
    gaurav wrote:
    But 200 millions per aircraft, little crazy.
    200 million /aircraft then what do you say of a country like India ..

    which is buying rafale crap for another 200 millions usd/aircraft.
    126 aircraft for a potential 20 billionUSD deal. It looks like a GDP of a medium sized country..


    Sorry gaurav, but the Rafale's price is 90 millions €, it is somewhat far from 200 millions/aircraft for F-35. Moreover indian GDP is in better conditions, and in better state than US crippling collapsing economy.
    Beside the shamefully shinning wall street's dividends, you have nearly 50 millions US eating from food stamps program, 100 millions did not eat well, nearly half of people has money problem, furthermore, no medical care.
    Obviously, if you compare to India, yes being hungry in USA, is somewhere better to be hungry in India. Because in US Army hires wery well, indeed, you can find easilly jobs, but don't come back without leg or arm after a war,... no more money for hospitals.

    Concerning this deal with Rafale, in fact France will loose in this transaxtion, because of technology transfert. in fact India is developping its AMCA, hence need western technology, even though India spent much money, it will retrieve the precious know-how. In few years India won't need western technology.

    Back to our subject, we are far from US JSF 200 millions/unity No, US is still believing they are before 2008, spend money, and world will pay your deficit. Now the BRICS became a reality, great power, and no question to pay any US deficit, for that reason US is looking for a small war in order to keep the confidence, and seeming the number 1, dreaming of its lost empire, where everybody had to speak english, as I had to. However the back to the reality will be a huge shock.



    The F-35 will either be a spectacular success or a miserable failure, time will tell.



    As for the poor in the USA, the USA is perhaps one of the few nations in the world where the poor are massively overweight to the point of being obese.


    When you see somebody in America who weighs 400 pounds tell you that they are poor, just remind them that they don't know the first thing about poverty.


    I have seen REAL poverty, skeleton thin people living under bridges. The real poor are not those who live in tax-payer subsidized houses and get $400 dollars per family member per month in food-stamps.


    I remember seeing an absolutely filthy White man once, with so much caked on dirt, muck, and grease, it was almost hard to tell he was White. He told me about the local tractor factory he used to work at, which had since moved to Brazil, and asked me if I would give him a dollar for a burger, ultimately we gave him five dollars, and then he bicycled away.


    The truly poor people are generally thin.


    When I hear some 400 pound beached whale of a woman in the USA whine about being poor I cannot help but think of some sights overseas, the homeless, street people, disabled people, people who are thin, very thin, who don't know where their next meal is coming from.

    The declarations of "I am poor, help me!" ring hollow when they're coming from somebody who is so obese they could go a full year without eating and still survive as long as they hydrated and took daily vitamins.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:48 am

    The truly poor people are generally thin.

    Here in NZ poor people can still have a car and a TV but still be considered poor... it is not the same as some countries.

    BTW often poor people are overweight because they can't afford healthy food, or they just don't care. Middle class people and rich people can be fat too and for a myriad of reasons... not all of them economic.


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  BTRfan on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The truly poor people are generally thin.

    Here in NZ poor people can still have a car and a TV but still be considered poor... it is not the same as some countries.

    BTW often poor people are overweight because they can't afford healthy food, or they just don't care. Middle class people and rich people can be fat too and for a myriad of reasons... not all of them economic.




    In the USA any person who receives $400 dollars per month in food stamps would easily eat beans, potatoes, pasta, and grilled/baked chicken on a regular basis, with fish/salmon one night per week and some low cut of steak one night per week.


    A lot of them elect to eat fast food and chips/snacks on a constant and ongoing basis.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Regular on Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:28 pm

    Well fast food in UK is more expensive than food You can make yourself.
    If You are skint You can go and eat at chippy but it will be more expensive in the end of the day.
    I used spend only £40 per week for myself for like 2 months because I saved money to rent bigger house. And I'm not small guy either.

    4 pack of beans can be found for £1.
    Chicken Kiev 500 grams - 1 pound.
    6 tomatoes for £1 too.
    John West canned salmon 300 g - £1.
    Uncle Benz Rice pouches 2 for £2.
    Not the healthiest food but not as poisonous than horse burgers from Tesco.

    1 Turkish kebab will cost me more than 6 quid. It takes two of them to feed me for at least 6 hours.
    Making food is always cheaper than buying fast food

    nemrod
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:03 pm

    BTRfan wrote:
    The truly poor people are generally thin.

    Strange way to think, to see, and to debate.
    Obviously, if you compare a US poor, with a somalian or an ethiopian, you will see differences. A poor in Russia living near Vladivostok, and a poort in Denver's suburb, you see that one has a car, and the other uses bus, or train, walk simply.
    Iam afraid that I was somewhat misunderstood. I don't hate US people, I have nothing against americans people. Because the pain is the same when a drone or a Phantom bombs and hence destroy your home, and an usher ordering you to leave your home in 24 hours with your wife and children.
    The barbaric is the same, the great parasytes are the sames who triggered the first, second world war, and the wars nowadays.
    My ennemy, your ennemy, US people , Syrian people, russian people, french people, iranian people, venezuelian people, argentinian people' worst ennemy are true bastard like Lloyd Blankfein, Henry Paulson, Maier Amschell Rothschild, Rockefeller, Rajat Kumar Gupta, etc....

    You can notice that in this worst economic crisis for average people, for them, they never enriched as today.
    They are the ennemy, they want each countries in the world must walnut with debts, as in the middle age. The debt is their weapon of mass destruction, and US army, and some western armies are their henchmen. In order to terrorise every countries in the world.
    Fortuneltly now there is only a super power , more than never, that resist to this barbaric system is Russia.

    Do not forget just one thing when the bastard of Lloyd Blankfein said he is doing
    God's work.
    Warren Buffet added
    This crisis is war between the two classes, mine is the winner.

    Asking if a poor eat less or more potatoes, or tomatoes, meat than another, has none sens.
    The poors whereever they are, they are poor, they have no weighs in the politic context, as average people. In War context -poorest are the best candidates- average people is asked to give its blood for the riches, in peace context, average people is asked its credit card, untill he will be expulsed of this home.



    BTRfan wrote:
    The F-35 will either be a spectacular success or a miserable failure, time will tell.

    The only US aircraft that impressed me, this last decades seeing the different wars -if we ignore P-51 mustang's success-, is the relative success of F-117 during Desert's Storm.
    After reading very much, looking for more informations that is not US propaganda, I can conclude that untill now, no US aircrafts is really decisive.
    Back to the F-15 as the hype, its supposed 100 victories, in fact as Vladimir Iylin, the F-15 had a redoutable opponents third generation soviet aircraft that were Mig-23, and Mig-25. Mig-23 ML downed several F-15 C, and F-16 -the other US shits-. Even a Mig 21 was abble to down a F-15A in the end of 70's.
    If we back yougoslavian war, and desert storm, to explain the relative success of US aircrafts. The two countries were under economic embargos, if not a blockade, detering them to have the best conditiions of fights as it was the case during Vietnam War, where north vietnameses downed score of US aircrafts.

    Even with that, US losses are untill now subject to controversies, and their success either in Yougoslavia, and Iraq was due mostly to the Russia's help, or Soviet Union's help.

    Seeing the history, we can easily conclude that the F-35 won't be a spectacular success, especially now with Western gloomy economic crisis.
    Let's hope for them F-35 will be the shit as the F-16, Phantom II, F-105, F-104 were.

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    F-35 Saga : Pentagon considers cancelling F-35 program, leaked documents suggest

    Post  nemrod on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:03 am


    http://rt.com/usa/pentagon-f35-stealth-bomber-963/




    Published time: August 02, 2013 16:42
    Get short URL


    Leaked documents from a Pentagon budget review suggest that the agency is tired of its costly F-35 fighter jets, and has thoughts about cancelling the $391.2 billion program that has already expanded into 10 foreign countries.

    Pentagon officials held a briefing on Wednesday in which they mapped out ways to manage the $500 billion in automated budget cuts required over the next decade. A slideshow laid out a number of suggestions and exposed the Pentagon’s frustration with its F-35 jets, which are designed and manufactured by Lockheed Martin Corp. based out of Bethesda, Md. The agency also suggested scrapping plans for a new stealthy, long-range bomber, attendees of the briefing told Reuters.

    Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel spoke to reporters on Wednesday and indicated that the Pentagon might have to decide between a "much smaller force" and a decade-long "holiday" from modernizing weapons systems and technology.

    Pentagon briefing slides indicated that a decision to maintain a larger military "could result in the cancellation of the $392 billion Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 program and a new stealthy, long-range bomber," Reuters reports.

    When officials familiar with the budget review leaked the news about the F-35s, the agency tried to downplay its alleged intentions.

    The F-35 program is the Pentagon’s most expensive weapon system. A fleet of 2,443 aircraft has an estimated price tag of $391.2 billion, which is up 68 percent from the projected costs measured in 2001. Earlier this year, Air Force Lieutenant General Christopher Bogdan, the F-35 program manager, condemned the manufacturer for “trying to squeeze every nickel” out of the Department of Defense.

    Although the warplane is the most expensive combat aircraft in history, its quality is lacking. In February, the US military grounded an entire fleet of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters because of a crack found on a turbine blade on one of the jets, marking the fourth time that a fleet was grounded because of manufacturing problems. In April, Bogdan told a Senate committee that he doubted the planes could withstand a sophisticated cyberattack.

    But before the sequestration took effect this year, the Pentagon secured several contracts with Lockheed Martin to ensure the continued production and maintenance of the costly F-35s. This week, the Defense Department struck another deal with the company to produce 71 more jet fighters, claiming the costs per aircraft have been reduced by about 4 percent – an insignificant reduction when compared to the 68 percent price increase that has occurred since 2001.

    After news broke of the Pentagon’s prospect to cancel the program, officials tried to control the damage of such an alarming statement that runs counter to the claims they publicly make.

    "We have gone to great lengths to stress that this review identified, through a rigorous process of strategic modeling, possible decisions we might face, under scenarios we may or may not face in the future," Pentagon Spokesman George Little told Reuters in an email when asked about the slides. "Any suggestion that we're now moving away from key modernization programs as a result of yesterday's discussion of the outcomes of the review would be incorrect.”

    An unnamed defense official familiar with the briefing told Reuters that the leaked budget document indicated possibilities for a worst-case scenario. He admitted that the Pentagon considered scrapping the program, but said it was unlikely, since “cancelling the program would be detrimental to our national defense.”

    Regardless of the Pentagon’s intent, Congress is responsible for authorizing Department of Defense spending, and has often forced the agency to make costly and unnecessary weapons purchases.

    Last year, US Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno said that the US has no need for new tanks. But even though senior Army officials have repeatedly stated that there is no need to spend half a billion dollars in taxpayer funds on new 70-ton Abrams tanks, lawmakers from both parties have pushed the Pentagon to accept the useless purchases.

    Earlier this year, an investigation revealed that lobbying efforts by Northrop Grumman have kept a costly Global Hawk drone flying, despite the Pentagon’s attempt to end the project. A defense authorization bill passed by Congress requires the Air Force to keep flying its Block 30 Global Hawks through at least 2014, which costs taxpayers $260 million per year.

    The US spends more money on defense than any other nation, but lawmakers from both parties often insist that the agency continue to buy tanks and keep ships and planes it no longer needs. Although the Pentagon has expressed its frustration with the costly F-35 fighter jets, there is little the agency can do without congressional support.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:11 am

    IF they cancel this program, they will be in a bad sittuation. It takes 10-15 years to design a new aircraft so they will be left with no replacement for their aging fleet.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:40 am

    They can build new F-16s and as far as I know F-15s are still in low rate production for export customers like South Korea and Japan etc.

    It seems to me the best thing they could have done was simply continued to produce F-16s and F-15s and F-18s and instead of building thousands of expensive stealth fighters... they could have given their older plane designs upgrades and developed unmanned aircraft and skipped that expensive 5th generation.

    For the Russians they already have their previous generation aircraft still in production and being fitted with upgrades being developed for their next gen aircraft. The real difference is that production of Su-35 and Mig-35 means there is much less pressure to make thousands of new 5th gen fighters right now while they are expensive.

    In ten years time when they have perfected the PAK FA and found out what works and what doesn't their light 5th gen fighter will likely be much cheaper and also able to be exported in numbers.


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    For the Russians they already have their previous generation aircraft still in production and being fitted with upgrades being developed for their next gen aircraft. The real difference is that production of Su-35 and Mig-35 means there is much less pressure to make thousands of new 5th gen fighters right now while they are expensive.

    In ten years time when they have perfected the PAK FA and found out what works and what doesn't their light 5th gen fighter will likely be much cheaper and also able to be exported in numbers.

    The great difference between US and USSR/Russia, US war machine was designed from nothing, from debts..... from wind,especially paper, hence dollar. Meanwhile, the soviet technology was designed from autentic russian wealth, no cheap, no wind, but true compentencies.

    Gloomy future is waiting for US army in next years. The situatiion should be bad, as Russia witnessed during 90's.
    More than never, russian's ICBM, SLBM, IRBM, cruise missiles should be ready, in case of US miscalulations. As US are cornering in dramatic economic situation, nothing is impossible.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:24 pm

    Certainly, fighting a nuclear war with Russia will not help US economy recover...

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:24 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:Certainly, fighting a nuclear war with Russia will not help US economy recover...

    Nuclear's Russia save the world peace. More Russia is stronger, better the world is.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  NationalRus on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:13 pm

    nemrod wrote:
    As Sa'iqa wrote:Certainly, fighting a nuclear war with Russia will not help US economy recover...

    Nuclear's Russia save the world peace. More Russia is stronger, better the world is.
    thats why ther will be no war... never, so dumb to even waste breath talking about it Rolling Eyes 

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:54 pm

    They can't kill it, only reduce it which they are. The programme to kill is the LCS... what a colossal waste of money!


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:17 pm

    Another big technical setbacks for the Joint Strike Fighter.

    http://defensetech.org/2014/01/29/report-f-35-cracks-in-tests-isnt-reliable/

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  zino on Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:45 pm

    Some good news from Italy.

    The centre-lest component of the government (50% of a big coalition) plans to cut the order from 90 to 45 fighter. This opinion will be compared with others in a proper finding investigation (sorry for my English, hope the sense is clear). They plan to revive the EF project instead, due to technical problems of LM airplane and to not depend totally to the USA for such a sensitive topic (air force main component).
    http://www.repubblica.it/politica/2014/02/01/news/f35_pd_dimezza_acquisto-77429492/

    Even more important was the audit held in september 2013 by the Finmeccanica CEO in front of ministry of defence commision.
    "We are intelligent executors of others' choices". "We have to run programs and processes that are the result of political choices rather than industrial". The guy spoke really loud, I think.
    http://www.analisidifesa.it/2013/09/lf-35-non-convince-neppure-finmeccanica/

    IMO that situation is the best for NATO rivals: the program will go on but in fewer orders. Costs will raise and they will be stuck for decades in a poor platform. Cancellation of f-35 will lead instead to a 6th gen program sooner than in the previous scenario.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:36 am

    Regular wrote:Well fast food in UK is more expensive than food You can make yourself.
    If You are skint You can go and eat at chippy but it will be more expensive in the end of the day.
    I used spend only £40 per week for myself for like 2 months because I saved money to rent bigger house. And I'm not small guy either.

    4 pack of beans can be found for £1.
    Chicken Kiev 500 grams - 1 pound.
    6 tomatoes for £1 too.
    John West canned salmon 300 g - £1.
    Uncle Benz Rice pouches 2 for £2.
    Not the healthiest food but not as poisonous than horse burgers from Tesco.

    1 Turkish kebab will cost me more than 6 quid. It takes two of them to feed me for at least 6 hours.
    Making food is always cheaper than buying fast food

    Haha, brings me back Smile

    I used to raid the Tesco, etc... clearance section whenever I could; you can usually find some cheap packaged meals there.

    Favorite staple was spaghetti & pesto sauce (sometimes with some chicken breast too), as well as tuna rice (with mayo and pepper).
    When I was truly skint I could buy a whole bag of frozen chicken legs; boil them, roast them... they would last for quite a while. And rice, spaghetti is dirt cheap so those were always the staples of my student diet.

    One of my housemates worked in a Thai restaurant; every day he would bring back chicken & rice (while I supplied the tobacco); it was spicy as fuck but I just had to endure it.
    Another few friends worked at fish & chips stands/shops; so I usually well supplied when out & about too.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:23 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Regular wrote:Well fast food in UK is more expensive than food You can make yourself.
    If You are skint You can go and eat at chippy but it will be more expensive in the end of the day.
    I used spend only £40 per week for myself for like 2 months because I saved money to rent bigger house. And I'm not small guy either.

    4 pack of beans can be found for £1.
    Chicken Kiev 500 grams - 1 pound.
    6 tomatoes for £1 too.
    John West canned salmon 300 g - £1.
    Uncle Benz Rice pouches 2 for £2.
    Not the healthiest food but not as poisonous than horse burgers from Tesco.

    1 Turkish kebab will cost me more than 6 quid. It takes two of them to feed me for at least 6 hours.
    Making food is always cheaper than buying fast food

    Haha, brings me back Smile

    I used to raid the Tesco, etc... clearance section whenever I could; you can usually find some cheap packaged meals there.

    Favorite staple was spaghetti & pesto sauce (sometimes with some chicken breast too), as well as tuna rice (with mayo and pepper).
    When I was truly skint I could buy a whole bag of frozen chicken legs; boil them, roast them... they would last for quite a while. And rice, spaghetti is dirt cheap so those were always the staples of my student diet.

    One of my housemates worked in a Thai restaurant; every day he would bring back chicken & rice (while I supplied the tobacco); it was spicy as fuck but I just had to endure it.
    Another few friends worked at fish & chips stands/shops; so I usually well supplied when out & about too.


    Fish and Chips? By the sound of it did you go to college...err I mean university in the UK? Here in America the common staple student diets revolve around Ramen instant-noodles, Kraft mac & cheese, oatmeal, hot and cold cereal, ham and cheese sandwiches...things that can be made within 30 minutes before class.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Viktor on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:44 pm

    Simply there can be no better solution for Russia and China and perhaps even India than the situation where F-35 development is finished successfully and the plane is rushed in the production. Why? Because:

    - it will cost like hell
    - its maintenance will cost like hell
    - its the slowest plane in the world
    - it can not supercruise
    - its stealth is not so great (if at all)
    - its internal weapon compartment is too small to matter
    - its maneuverability is non-existant
    - it has lowest flight altitude
    - it has only one engine
    - it has small range
    - no TVC
    - it will occupy US fighter slots in thousands for extremly long period of time with its inferior characteristics to much capable fighters that would be designed instead
    - etc

    because it will represent a real big, juicy and fat targets for Russian and China SAMs  Very Happy

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:36 pm

    The F-35 does not have small range at all. It's range is quite good actually.


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:44 pm

    The F-35 will be equipped with the very latest of American sensors, radars and missiles so already there is a big danger there just from that.

    But yeah, it's a big lemon alright.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Viktor on Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:21 am

    TR1 wrote:The F-35 does not have small range at all. It's range is quite good actually.


    A and C variant have sommewhat better range than F-18 but not much and not nearly what PAk-FA/Su-30/35/34/MIG-35, J-20 will have or already has.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  SOC on Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:53 am

    Viktor wrote:
    TR1 wrote:The F-35 does not have small range at all. It's range is quite good actually.


    A and C variant have sommewhat better range than F-18 but not much and not nearly what PAk-FA/Su-30/35/34/MIG-35, J-20 will have or already has.

    Most of those are much larger airframes, too, with more fuel.  The F-35 does have IFR, and can carry external tanks for more range at the expense of LO.

    That being said, yes, the F-35 is a waste of time.  The sensor and EW capability and fusion is pretty ridiculous, but it's not survivable in a modern IADS (neither are the F-22, J-20, or T-50) and can't compete with something more tailored for the A/A role like an F-22 or T-50.

    Also, saying something has better range than an F-18 really isn't a compliment pwnd 

    TR1
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:34 am

    Not as much range as MiG-35? You sure?

    I would think the opposite is true.

    Viktor
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Viktor on Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:46 am

    Nuff said  Laughing 


    Chief of the U.S. Air Force, Air Command Command Gen. Michael Hostage wrote:“If I do not keep that F-22 fleet viable, the F-35 fleet frankly will be irrelevant. The F-35 is not built as an air superiority platform. It needs the F-22,”

    LINK

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