Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Share
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Viktor on Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 pm

    It certainly does not sound good.

    Media attacks on F-35 now comes on regular basis, on daily basis from all directions (Turkey, Eu(different countries), Australia,

    Canada).

    On the other hand we are here talking about fighter/bomber with highly inferior flight characteristics and extremely

    high price tag and maintenance and with its price keep rising. Very Happy

    I wish him all the luck and, greater the numbers, twice the fun Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:47 am

    Most of the money has already been spent and there is now really no alternative as most of the aircraft it is to replace are no longer in production and many are very worn out.

    The very idea of cutting this dog of a program and replacing it with a modern, capable aircraft that isn't the best at everything, but is pretty good at most things is simply not how it is done in the US at the moment. A cheap aircraft means small profit margins, even if it would be good for the military... they don't actually need a super whiz bang plane that will beat everything... on paper the European fighters that went up against Serbian Mig-29s were inferior in some aspects too... if those Serb fighters had been properly upgraded SMT models with RVV-AE missiles the air combat might have been more interesting and less one sided... though NATO still likely would have gotten its way in the end.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    nemrod

    Posts : 811
    Points : 1310
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:06 pm

    GarryB wrote:... if those Serb fighters had been properly upgraded SMT models with RVV-AE missiles the air combat might have been more interesting and less one sided...

    Just a quick question please, is AA-12 really more efficient than AIM 120 AMRAAN ?

    Furthermore to back to the original topic, I've just learned UK's military budget will be reduced significantly.
    http://www.opex360.com/2013/03/10/la-defense-britannique-doit-sattendre-a-de-nouvelles-coupes-budgetaires/

    An F-35's partner less. Nevertheless, the greats more punctions-UK, and USA-, seem to be ignored yet, but they won't be avoided. It won't be delayed.
    We are in the same early 90's situation that prevailed in USSR. Soviet's budget melted, meanwhile, US military budget skyrocked.

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:13 am

    Just a quick question please, is AA-12 really more efficient than AIM 120 AMRAAN ?

    Is like asking a father which son he loves best... both are likely to be effective and both have plus and minus features.

    The AMRAAM is lower drag, and is far more widely deployed and can be considered fully operational with most fighters in the US able to operate it. It is fully digital and is orders of magnitude more effective than the Sparrow SARH missiles it replaced. (PK (kill probability) of 40% compared with PK of about 4-5% for Sparrow).

    The AA-12 is actually several missiles from the early RVV-AE that was a Soviet missile (with a Ukrainian seeker) to the current RVV-SD which is all digital with a Texas Instruments controller chip.

    The AA-12 has grid rear fins for flight control that allow better manouver capability with the penalty of higher drag and increased RCS. Of course the higher drag is nullified because the Mig-29 and Su-27 based aircraft that can carry it can accelerate to higher speeds than their western counterparts before launching the missiles, and the better manoeuvre capability means it is much harder to evade for the target.

    The AA-12 can engage targets pulling 12g.

    It will be interesting to see what versions of the AA-12 go into service as the previous model (R-27) had IR and passive radar homing models too. In fact there were more than a dozen different combinations of AAM based on the AA-10 including models especially for the Su-33 and Mig-29K for use over water, models for older upgraded aircraft like the Mig-21-98 and Mig-23-98, plus also larger rocket motor versions and even ARH models.

    Despite what you read in books most BVR engagements don't occur at hundreds of kms range... generally they will occur at ranges of 20km to about 60km and no more.

    Even if it says the missile has a range of 110km no pilot will waste a missile trying to hit a target at that range.

    The question is like asking which is better... an M16 or an AK... and you will get as many answers as people you ask, but on this forum I would say the R-77... with its folding rear grid fin design is rather more unique and interesting than the boring triangular fin AMRAAM. Both are designed for internal carriage.

    I have read that a new model R-77 will have all triangular fins to reduce drag and extend range. (range is good for low RCS aircraft as the further you can launch your missile from the less likely he is to detect your presence).

    Personally I would like to see a two stage R-77 with a solid rocket booster that has small triangular folding fins in a fairing over the rear grid fins.

    The result would be you launch the missile and the solid rocket booster unfolds its stabilising fins, which together with the body strakes keep the missile flying with the rear grid fins folded in a low drag configuration. When the solid rocket booster burns out it can fall away leaving the fairing over the rear grid fins with the small triangle fins directing the missile in a low drag mode powered by the missiles rocket engine on a cruise to the target area.

    When the target is detected the light fairing can drop away and the rear grid fins can deploy and steer the missile to the target.

    The triangular fins can be connected to the servos for the rear grid fins but for the early part of the journey the missile does not need to be very manouverable. When the missile is in the target area the fairing can be dropped and the grid fins deployed for maximum manouver capability.

    The rear grid fins actually generate less drag than a fin of the same control surface area, but most control surfaces don't have as much area so they generate less drag, but also less lift. The grid fins allow much harder turns as they work at much higher angles of attack than ordinary fins... in other words if the triangular fin of the AMRAAM could turn as far as the grid fins on the R-77 they would stall and stop turning the missile. The grid fins continue to exert a turning force on the missile to allow it to turn harder and faster than other modern missiles that don't use thrust vectoring control.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    nemrod

    Posts : 811
    Points : 1310
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:37 pm

    Thx Garry for your explanations.
    There is very usefull to talk in this forum.


    Regards.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Viktor on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:16 am

    Excellent documentary movie about the F-35 that pretty much sums it all

    avatar
    nemrod

    Posts : 811
    Points : 1310
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    F-35 Saga : Pentagon considers cancelling F-35 program

    Post  nemrod on Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:47 pm

    Denmark seems to be reluctant too, and threat the JSF F-35

    http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130316/DEFREG01/303160005/Danish-Fighter-Restart-Could-Hurt-F-35

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/26/denmark-fighters-idUSL6N0CE7UH20130326
    avatar
    nemrod

    Posts : 811
    Points : 1310
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    F-35 Saga : Prices soar, enthusiasm dives for F-35 Lightning

    Post  nemrod on Tue May 28, 2013 2:01 pm


    http://www.asian-defence.com/2013/03/prices-soar-enthusiasm-dives-for-f-35.html

    My impression :
    Is the F-35 another US shit ?
    I don't know, however it is easy to remember the case of F-104, when one aircraft was easilly bought to other nato's military air force.
    The same was the F-16, let's remember about the most century's market where F-16 was opposed to Mirage F-1 -far better than US aircraft-, when unfortunetly F-16 won. However i read in website that according to US high official defense the F-16 is less effective of all US fighters. An incredible unflaterring comment.
    As F-35 price soars reaching nearly 200 millions $, in deep economic crisis context it is dubious if F-35.
    I suspect that US as they did previously, by flowing this aircraft, is looking for the goals to get fleeced clients, secondly, looking for prestige, and controll allies air forces.
    Finally limitted the indigenous allies industies, that could become cumbersome concurrents.
    But 200 millions per aircraft, little crazy.
    avatar
    gaurav

    Posts : 332
    Points : 332
    Join date : 2013-02-19
    Age : 37
    Location : Blr

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  gaurav on Tue May 28, 2013 4:29 pm

    But 200 millions per aircraft, little crazy.
    200 million /aircraft then what do you say of a country like India ..

    which is buying rafale crap for another 200 million usd/aircraft.
    126 aircraft for a potential 20 billionUSD deal. It looks like a GDP of a medium sized country..


    On top of it, politicos are licking their lips , on the sight on this deal..
    ..
    Scams reign on all fronts.. Sad
    avatar
    nemrod

    Posts : 811
    Points : 1310
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Tue May 28, 2013 10:47 pm

    gaurav wrote:
    But 200 millions per aircraft, little crazy.
    200 million /aircraft then what do you say of a country like India ..

    which is buying rafale crap for another 200 millions usd/aircraft.
    126 aircraft for a potential 20 billionUSD deal. It looks like a GDP of a medium sized country..


    Sorry gaurav, but the Rafale's price is 90 millions €, it is somewhat far from 200 millions/aircraft for F-35. Moreover indian GDP is in better conditions, and in better state than US crippling collapsing economy.
    Beside the shamefully shinning wall street's dividends, you have nearly 50 millions US eating from food stamps program, 100 millions did not eat well, nearly half of people has money problem, furthermore, no medical care.
    Obviously, if you compare to India, yes being hungry in USA, is somewhere better to be hungry in India. Because in US Army hires wery well, indeed, you can find easilly jobs, but don't come back without leg or arm after a war,... no more money for hospitals.

    Concerning this deal with Rafale, in fact France will loose in this transaxtion, because of technology transfert. in fact India is developping its AMCA, hence need western technology, even though India spent much money, it will retrieve the precious know-how. In few years India won't need western technology.

    Back to our subject, we are far from US JSF 200 millions/unity No, US is still believing they are before 2008, spend money, and world will pay your deficit. Now the BRICS became a reality, great power, and no question to pay any US deficit, for that reason US is looking for a small war in order to keep the confidence, and seeming the number 1, dreaming of its lost empire, where everybody had to speak english, as I had to. However the back to the reality will be a huge shock.

    BTRfan

    Posts : 435
    Points : 475
    Join date : 2010-09-30
    Location : USA

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  BTRfan on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:32 am

    nemrod wrote:
    gaurav wrote:
    But 200 millions per aircraft, little crazy.
    200 million /aircraft then what do you say of a country like India ..

    which is buying rafale crap for another 200 millions usd/aircraft.
    126 aircraft for a potential 20 billionUSD deal. It looks like a GDP of a medium sized country..


    Sorry gaurav, but the Rafale's price is 90 millions €, it is somewhat far from 200 millions/aircraft for F-35. Moreover indian GDP is in better conditions, and in better state than US crippling collapsing economy.
    Beside the shamefully shinning wall street's dividends, you have nearly 50 millions US eating from food stamps program, 100 millions did not eat well, nearly half of people has money problem, furthermore, no medical care.
    Obviously, if you compare to India, yes being hungry in USA, is somewhere better to be hungry in India. Because in US Army hires wery well, indeed, you can find easilly jobs, but don't come back without leg or arm after a war,... no more money for hospitals.

    Concerning this deal with Rafale, in fact France will loose in this transaxtion, because of technology transfert. in fact India is developping its AMCA, hence need western technology, even though India spent much money, it will retrieve the precious know-how. In few years India won't need western technology.

    Back to our subject, we are far from US JSF 200 millions/unity No, US is still believing they are before 2008, spend money, and world will pay your deficit. Now the BRICS became a reality, great power, and no question to pay any US deficit, for that reason US is looking for a small war in order to keep the confidence, and seeming the number 1, dreaming of its lost empire, where everybody had to speak english, as I had to. However the back to the reality will be a huge shock.



    The F-35 will either be a spectacular success or a miserable failure, time will tell.



    As for the poor in the USA, the USA is perhaps one of the few nations in the world where the poor are massively overweight to the point of being obese.


    When you see somebody in America who weighs 400 pounds tell you that they are poor, just remind them that they don't know the first thing about poverty.


    I have seen REAL poverty, skeleton thin people living under bridges. The real poor are not those who live in tax-payer subsidized houses and get $400 dollars per family member per month in food-stamps.


    I remember seeing an absolutely filthy White man once, with so much caked on dirt, muck, and grease, it was almost hard to tell he was White. He told me about the local tractor factory he used to work at, which had since moved to Brazil, and asked me if I would give him a dollar for a burger, ultimately we gave him five dollars, and then he bicycled away.


    The truly poor people are generally thin.


    When I hear some 400 pound beached whale of a woman in the USA whine about being poor I cannot help but think of some sights overseas, the homeless, street people, disabled people, people who are thin, very thin, who don't know where their next meal is coming from.

    The declarations of "I am poor, help me!" ring hollow when they're coming from somebody who is so obese they could go a full year without eating and still survive as long as they hydrated and took daily vitamins.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:48 am

    The truly poor people are generally thin.

    Here in NZ poor people can still have a car and a TV but still be considered poor... it is not the same as some countries.

    BTW often poor people are overweight because they can't afford healthy food, or they just don't care. Middle class people and rich people can be fat too and for a myriad of reasons... not all of them economic.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    BTRfan

    Posts : 435
    Points : 475
    Join date : 2010-09-30
    Location : USA

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  BTRfan on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The truly poor people are generally thin.

    Here in NZ poor people can still have a car and a TV but still be considered poor... it is not the same as some countries.

    BTW often poor people are overweight because they can't afford healthy food, or they just don't care. Middle class people and rich people can be fat too and for a myriad of reasons... not all of them economic.




    In the USA any person who receives $400 dollars per month in food stamps would easily eat beans, potatoes, pasta, and grilled/baked chicken on a regular basis, with fish/salmon one night per week and some low cut of steak one night per week.


    A lot of them elect to eat fast food and chips/snacks on a constant and ongoing basis.
    avatar
    Regular

    Posts : 2034
    Points : 2041
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Regular on Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:28 pm

    Well fast food in UK is more expensive than food You can make yourself.
    If You are skint You can go and eat at chippy but it will be more expensive in the end of the day.
    I used spend only £40 per week for myself for like 2 months because I saved money to rent bigger house. And I'm not small guy either.

    4 pack of beans can be found for £1.
    Chicken Kiev 500 grams - 1 pound.
    6 tomatoes for £1 too.
    John West canned salmon 300 g - £1.
    Uncle Benz Rice pouches 2 for £2.
    Not the healthiest food but not as poisonous than horse burgers from Tesco.

    1 Turkish kebab will cost me more than 6 quid. It takes two of them to feed me for at least 6 hours.
    Making food is always cheaper than buying fast food
    avatar
    nemrod

    Posts : 811
    Points : 1310
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:03 pm

    BTRfan wrote:
    The truly poor people are generally thin.

    Strange way to think, to see, and to debate.
    Obviously, if you compare a US poor, with a somalian or an ethiopian, you will see differences. A poor in Russia living near Vladivostok, and a poort in Denver's suburb, you see that one has a car, and the other uses bus, or train, walk simply.
    Iam afraid that I was somewhat misunderstood. I don't hate US people, I have nothing against americans people. Because the pain is the same when a drone or a Phantom bombs and hence destroy your home, and an usher ordering you to leave your home in 24 hours with your wife and children.
    The barbaric is the same, the great parasytes are the sames who triggered the first, second world war, and the wars nowadays.
    My ennemy, your ennemy, US people , Syrian people, russian people, french people, iranian people, venezuelian people, argentinian people' worst ennemy are true bastard like Lloyd Blankfein, Henry Paulson, Maier Amschell Rothschild, Rockefeller, Rajat Kumar Gupta, etc....

    You can notice that in this worst economic crisis for average people, for them, they never enriched as today.
    They are the ennemy, they want each countries in the world must walnut with debts, as in the middle age. The debt is their weapon of mass destruction, and US army, and some western armies are their henchmen. In order to terrorise every countries in the world.
    Fortuneltly now there is only a super power , more than never, that resist to this barbaric system is Russia.

    Do not forget just one thing when the bastard of Lloyd Blankfein said he is doing
    God's work.
    Warren Buffet added
    This crisis is war between the two classes, mine is the winner.

    Asking if a poor eat less or more potatoes, or tomatoes, meat than another, has none sens.
    The poors whereever they are, they are poor, they have no weighs in the politic context, as average people. In War context -poorest are the best candidates- average people is asked to give its blood for the riches, in peace context, average people is asked its credit card, untill he will be expulsed of this home.



    BTRfan wrote:
    The F-35 will either be a spectacular success or a miserable failure, time will tell.

    The only US aircraft that impressed me, this last decades seeing the different wars -if we ignore P-51 mustang's success-, is the relative success of F-117 during Desert's Storm.
    After reading very much, looking for more informations that is not US propaganda, I can conclude that untill now, no US aircrafts is really decisive.
    Back to the F-15 as the hype, its supposed 100 victories, in fact as Vladimir Iylin, the F-15 had a redoutable opponents third generation soviet aircraft that were Mig-23, and Mig-25. Mig-23 ML downed several F-15 C, and F-16 -the other US shits-. Even a Mig 21 was abble to down a F-15A in the end of 70's.
    If we back yougoslavian war, and desert storm, to explain the relative success of US aircrafts. The two countries were under economic embargos, if not a blockade, detering them to have the best conditiions of fights as it was the case during Vietnam War, where north vietnameses downed score of US aircrafts.

    Even with that, US losses are untill now subject to controversies, and their success either in Yougoslavia, and Iraq was due mostly to the Russia's help, or Soviet Union's help.

    Seeing the history, we can easily conclude that the F-35 won't be a spectacular success, especially now with Western gloomy economic crisis.
    Let's hope for them F-35 will be the shit as the F-16, Phantom II, F-105, F-104 were.
    avatar
    nemrod

    Posts : 811
    Points : 1310
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    F-35 Saga : Pentagon considers cancelling F-35 program, leaked documents suggest

    Post  nemrod on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:03 am


    http://rt.com/usa/pentagon-f35-stealth-bomber-963/




    Published time: August 02, 2013 16:42
    Get short URL


    Leaked documents from a Pentagon budget review suggest that the agency is tired of its costly F-35 fighter jets, and has thoughts about cancelling the $391.2 billion program that has already expanded into 10 foreign countries.

    Pentagon officials held a briefing on Wednesday in which they mapped out ways to manage the $500 billion in automated budget cuts required over the next decade. A slideshow laid out a number of suggestions and exposed the Pentagon’s frustration with its F-35 jets, which are designed and manufactured by Lockheed Martin Corp. based out of Bethesda, Md. The agency also suggested scrapping plans for a new stealthy, long-range bomber, attendees of the briefing told Reuters.

    Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel spoke to reporters on Wednesday and indicated that the Pentagon might have to decide between a "much smaller force" and a decade-long "holiday" from modernizing weapons systems and technology.

    Pentagon briefing slides indicated that a decision to maintain a larger military "could result in the cancellation of the $392 billion Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 program and a new stealthy, long-range bomber," Reuters reports.

    When officials familiar with the budget review leaked the news about the F-35s, the agency tried to downplay its alleged intentions.

    The F-35 program is the Pentagon’s most expensive weapon system. A fleet of 2,443 aircraft has an estimated price tag of $391.2 billion, which is up 68 percent from the projected costs measured in 2001. Earlier this year, Air Force Lieutenant General Christopher Bogdan, the F-35 program manager, condemned the manufacturer for “trying to squeeze every nickel” out of the Department of Defense.

    Although the warplane is the most expensive combat aircraft in history, its quality is lacking. In February, the US military grounded an entire fleet of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters because of a crack found on a turbine blade on one of the jets, marking the fourth time that a fleet was grounded because of manufacturing problems. In April, Bogdan told a Senate committee that he doubted the planes could withstand a sophisticated cyberattack.

    But before the sequestration took effect this year, the Pentagon secured several contracts with Lockheed Martin to ensure the continued production and maintenance of the costly F-35s. This week, the Defense Department struck another deal with the company to produce 71 more jet fighters, claiming the costs per aircraft have been reduced by about 4 percent – an insignificant reduction when compared to the 68 percent price increase that has occurred since 2001.

    After news broke of the Pentagon’s prospect to cancel the program, officials tried to control the damage of such an alarming statement that runs counter to the claims they publicly make.

    "We have gone to great lengths to stress that this review identified, through a rigorous process of strategic modeling, possible decisions we might face, under scenarios we may or may not face in the future," Pentagon Spokesman George Little told Reuters in an email when asked about the slides. "Any suggestion that we're now moving away from key modernization programs as a result of yesterday's discussion of the outcomes of the review would be incorrect.”

    An unnamed defense official familiar with the briefing told Reuters that the leaked budget document indicated possibilities for a worst-case scenario. He admitted that the Pentagon considered scrapping the program, but said it was unlikely, since “cancelling the program would be detrimental to our national defense.”

    Regardless of the Pentagon’s intent, Congress is responsible for authorizing Department of Defense spending, and has often forced the agency to make costly and unnecessary weapons purchases.

    Last year, US Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno said that the US has no need for new tanks. But even though senior Army officials have repeatedly stated that there is no need to spend half a billion dollars in taxpayer funds on new 70-ton Abrams tanks, lawmakers from both parties have pushed the Pentagon to accept the useless purchases.

    Earlier this year, an investigation revealed that lobbying efforts by Northrop Grumman have kept a costly Global Hawk drone flying, despite the Pentagon’s attempt to end the project. A defense authorization bill passed by Congress requires the Air Force to keep flying its Block 30 Global Hawks through at least 2014, which costs taxpayers $260 million per year.

    The US spends more money on defense than any other nation, but lawmakers from both parties often insist that the agency continue to buy tanks and keep ships and planes it no longer needs. Although the Pentagon has expressed its frustration with the costly F-35 fighter jets, there is little the agency can do without congressional support.

    As Sa'iqa

    Posts : 415
    Points : 351
    Join date : 2013-06-01
    Age : 23
    Location : Western Poland

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:11 am

    IF they cancel this program, they will be in a bad sittuation. It takes 10-15 years to design a new aircraft so they will be left with no replacement for their aging fleet.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:40 am

    They can build new F-16s and as far as I know F-15s are still in low rate production for export customers like South Korea and Japan etc.

    It seems to me the best thing they could have done was simply continued to produce F-16s and F-15s and F-18s and instead of building thousands of expensive stealth fighters... they could have given their older plane designs upgrades and developed unmanned aircraft and skipped that expensive 5th generation.

    For the Russians they already have their previous generation aircraft still in production and being fitted with upgrades being developed for their next gen aircraft. The real difference is that production of Su-35 and Mig-35 means there is much less pressure to make thousands of new 5th gen fighters right now while they are expensive.

    In ten years time when they have perfected the PAK FA and found out what works and what doesn't their light 5th gen fighter will likely be much cheaper and also able to be exported in numbers.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    nemrod

    Posts : 811
    Points : 1310
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    For the Russians they already have their previous generation aircraft still in production and being fitted with upgrades being developed for their next gen aircraft. The real difference is that production of Su-35 and Mig-35 means there is much less pressure to make thousands of new 5th gen fighters right now while they are expensive.

    In ten years time when they have perfected the PAK FA and found out what works and what doesn't their light 5th gen fighter will likely be much cheaper and also able to be exported in numbers.

    The great difference between US and USSR/Russia, US war machine was designed from nothing, from debts..... from wind,especially paper, hence dollar. Meanwhile, the soviet technology was designed from autentic russian wealth, no cheap, no wind, but true compentencies.

    Gloomy future is waiting for US army in next years. The situatiion should be bad, as Russia witnessed during 90's.
    More than never, russian's ICBM, SLBM, IRBM, cruise missiles should be ready, in case of US miscalulations. As US are cornering in dramatic economic situation, nothing is impossible.

    As Sa'iqa

    Posts : 415
    Points : 351
    Join date : 2013-06-01
    Age : 23
    Location : Western Poland

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:24 pm

    Certainly, fighting a nuclear war with Russia will not help US economy recover...
    avatar
    nemrod

    Posts : 811
    Points : 1310
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:24 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:Certainly, fighting a nuclear war with Russia will not help US economy recover...

    Nuclear's Russia save the world peace. More Russia is stronger, better the world is.
    avatar
    NationalRus

    Posts : 634
    Points : 645
    Join date : 2010-04-11

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  NationalRus on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:13 pm

    nemrod wrote:
    As Sa'iqa wrote:Certainly, fighting a nuclear war with Russia will not help US economy recover...

    Nuclear's Russia save the world peace. More Russia is stronger, better the world is.
    thats why ther will be no war... never, so dumb to even waste breath talking about it Rolling Eyes 
    avatar
    Vladimir79

    Posts : 2179
    Points : 3069
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:54 pm

    They can't kill it, only reduce it which they are. The programme to kill is the LCS... what a colossal waste of money!


    _________________
    The true value of life knows only the paratrooper. For he is more likely to look death in the eye.  -- Vasily Margelov
    avatar
    nemrod

    Posts : 811
    Points : 1310
    Join date : 2012-09-11

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:17 pm

    Another big technical setbacks for the Joint Strike Fighter.

    http://defensetech.org/2014/01/29/report-f-35-cracks-in-tests-isnt-reliable/
    avatar
    zino

    Posts : 119
    Points : 133
    Join date : 2013-11-21
    Location : Northern Italy Autonomous Okrug

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  zino on Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:45 pm

    Some good news from Italy.

    The centre-lest component of the government (50% of a big coalition) plans to cut the order from 90 to 45 fighter. This opinion will be compared with others in a proper finding investigation (sorry for my English, hope the sense is clear). They plan to revive the EF project instead, due to technical problems of LM airplane and to not depend totally to the USA for such a sensitive topic (air force main component).
    http://www.repubblica.it/politica/2014/02/01/news/f35_pd_dimezza_acquisto-77429492/

    Even more important was the audit held in september 2013 by the Finmeccanica CEO in front of ministry of defence commision.
    "We are intelligent executors of others' choices". "We have to run programs and processes that are the result of political choices rather than industrial". The guy spoke really loud, I think.
    http://www.analisidifesa.it/2013/09/lf-35-non-convince-neppure-finmeccanica/

    IMO that situation is the best for NATO rivals: the program will go on but in fewer orders. Costs will raise and they will be stuck for decades in a poor platform. Cancellation of f-35 will lead instead to a 6th gen program sooner than in the previous scenario.

    Sponsored content

    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:04 am