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2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Isos

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Post n°51

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Isos Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:36 pm

Why do you think Armenian Su-30 don't have missiles?

Because a general of Armenian armed forces just said it. He can't lie because Russia can prove it if they delivered missiles.

They could use missiles from Russian stocks if Pashinyan didn't buy their own. Russian planes all the time bring weapons. Russia bring to Armenia jammers to jam drones, but Armenians store them in warehouse for the whole war instead sending them to Artzakh.

Export and russian version are different and Russia won't allow them to use their missiles when Azeri and Turks have ELINT systems listening for any radar emission accross the border.

R-77 radar has a 20km range so at least 40km detection range for passive radars listening for it.

The other stuff are probably bought by Armenia, and probably by NK directly, not given by Armenia.

KoTeMoRe

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Post n°52

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

KoTeMoRe Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:18 pm

Isos wrote:

Why do you think Armenian Su-30 don't have missiles?

Because a general of Armenian armed forces just said it. He can't lie because Russia can prove it if they delivered missiles.

They could use missiles from Russian stocks if Pashinyan didn't buy their own. Russian planes all the time bring weapons. Russia bring to Armenia jammers to jam drones, but Armenians store them in warehouse for the whole war instead sending them to Artzakh.

Export and russian version are different and Russia won't allow them to use their missiles when Azeri and Turks have ELINT systems listening for any radar emission accross the border.

R-77 radar has a 20km range so at least 40km detection range for passive radars listening for it.

The other stuff are probably bought by Armenia, and probably by NK directly, not given by Armenia.

... Again. They already have Soviet Era missiles good enough to shoot the bejezus out of TB's and Herons. This is just hogwash.
It's not some secret. Issue is simple. They only have 3 Su-30. Flying them against TB's was useless? They did however try to fly the SU's which were shot by F-16's...

KoTeMoRe

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Post n°53

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

KoTeMoRe Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:24 pm

Backman wrote:There was someone claiming that this could be an economic cost to Russia and Russia might collapse like the USSR . And I just want to put that idea to rest. Russia is a dual creditor nation. It has a huge trade surplus and a primary govt surplus. The USSR started running a net trade deficit in 1966. The USSR was like the US now.

Anyway here are the numbers. Russia has more foreign exchange reserves than India. And more gold than China. So it is just manifestly ludicrous to have concerns about the c cost of this mission.

Actually this is fucked up.
Russia has more gold but gold makes for less FOREX stock than devises...while the US has almost no devises, but all gold.

I don't know what happened to the US but fuck me, Trump destroyed their reserves...

For the laymen, having Gold as you main FOREX means that you lose physically and in worth every time you sell. The more you sell the more the price drops.

While Russia and India for instance circulate currency which can be liquiated faster.

There's something not right with the numbers though.

Current price gold puts the US reserves at 600 billion (480 billion being GOLD)...I hope this a mistake. Because on the calculus Russia has about 700 billion reserves. FOr a 1/10 economy.

nomadski

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Post n°54

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

nomadski Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:37 pm

Some people say in Iran., they don't know what do do with this Azeri separatist problem. Since also the Turks and Zionist pulling strings. A real danger for Iran.

Iran likes to preserve the present borders. No sectarian conflict. No change in borders or geopolitics. Well this game is a good one, if everybody played by the same rules. Aimed to maintain present borders. But they don't, do they !

And they endanger territorial integrity of nations in region. Well Iran can easily make sure that they are cut to size. Without much effort. Maintaining it's interests.

( 1 ) Move Iranian Kurdistan, together with Kurd inhabitants into Fars province. Move people from Fars province into Kurdistan. They can move into each other's homes and Farms. No one looses out. Then support formation of Kurdish state in Turkey, Syria and Iraq. Break the back of Ottomans. Without danger of separatism reaching Iran.

( 2) Move Azeri people out from border region with R. AZER and Turkish border. Move Iranian Armenian people there, together with other people from Khorasan province. Connect these area to the Caspian sea.This way R. AZER disconnected from Iranian Azer and Turkey .The two can not unite and cause separatism in Iran.This will also ensure an Iranian and Russian character to development in the Caucases. Not Turkic. Block rail from Turkey into R. AZER.

( 3) Iran and Russia rely on Shia crescent into Iraq and Syria to connect to MED and North Africa. No sole reliance on Turkey.

Looks good?

Scorpius

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Post n°55

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Scorpius Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:10 pm

Isos wrote:

Scorpius wrote:

Isos wrote:No he is not. He opposed to the su-30 and wanted more Tors.

He is just pointing out that someone in Armenia bought useless fighters against the will of the armed forces.

Did you just call the Su-30 a "useless fighter"? Facepalm

With no weapons it is quite useless. If it has its use they would have used it during the war.

So yeah it's more than useless since it has eaten a big amount of money too.

Can you tell us a modern fighter that is not "useless" without weapons?

Scorpius

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Post n°56

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Scorpius Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:12 pm

2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3 - Page 3 EnVw6MHXYAA_5Ig?format=jpg&

An illustration of Armenia's attitude to Russia at the state level: these morons "couldn't find" the Russian flag to meet with the official Russian delegation.

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Isos

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Post n°57

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Isos Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:38 pm

Scorpius wrote:

Isos wrote:

Scorpius wrote:

Isos wrote:No he is not. He opposed to the su-30 and wanted more Tors.

He is just pointing out that someone in Armenia bought useless fighters against the will of the armed forces.

Did you just call the Su-30 a "useless fighter"? Facepalm

With no weapons it is quite useless. If it has its use they would have used it during the war.

So yeah it's more than useless since it has eaten a big amount of money too.

Can you tell us a modern fighter that is not "useless" without weapons?

None because every fighter sold is generally sold with weapons.

Russian hardware is already suffering from a bad image because of the arab wars against israeli. If they start selling sukhois and not the weapons that they need and the country loose wars with their weapons then it will impact their sells.

They should have never sold the sukhois without a contract weapons.

PapaDragon

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Post n°58

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

PapaDragon Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:16 pm

Scorpius wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnVw6MHXYAA_5Ig?format=jpg&amp
An illustration of Armenia's attitude to Russia at the state level: these morons "couldn't find" the Russian flag to meet with the official Russian delegation.

Meh, let Pasha and his crew dig themselves even deeper

Isos wrote:If they start selling sukhois and not the weapons that they need and the country loose wars with their weapons then it will impact their sells....

When you buy a motherboard you don't get CPU for free

Same applies for fighter jets, if idiots don't want to buy weapons it's their funeral and it's not Russia's job to interfere with Good Lord Darwin

Isos

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Post n°59

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Isos Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:26 pm

When you buy a motherboard you don't get CPU for free

Same applies for fighter jets, if idiots don't want to buy weapons it's their funeral and it's not Russia's job to interfere with Good Lord Darwin

From an economic point of view you are right.

But I doubt sukhoi leaders or russian MIC are happy. Armenia bought a good amount of their new hardwares and they just lost a war.

PapaDragon

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Post n°60

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

PapaDragon Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:34 pm

Isos wrote:

When you buy a motherboard you don't get CPU for free

Same applies for fighter jets, if idiots don't want to buy weapons it's their funeral and it's not Russia's job to interfere with Good Lord Darwin

From an economic point of view you are right.

But I doubt sukhoi leaders or russian MIC are happy. Armenia bought a good amount of their new hardwares and they just lost a war.

I doubt that either Sukhoi or Russian MIC give a fuck

It was Armenian war to lose, it's not Sukhoi's job to give Armenians basic military training, their job is to sell

Saudis are getting their asses kicked in Yemen but you don't see General Dynamics getting their panties in a bunch

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Isos

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Post n°61

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Isos Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:03 pm

PapaDragon wrote:

Saudis are getting their asses kicked in Yemen but you don't see General Dynamics getting their panties in a bunch

They care about foreign loses of their equipment.

They spend their time hiding loses of US equipment so that they can say stuff like 104-0 wins for f-15.

What we remember of soviet/russian stuff is how bad they did in all their wars. Mig-21 getting stolen by israeli, t-54 getting anhilated by armoured cars in south africa, crashes of indian soviet made migs...

And they keep loosing clients.

You can be sure that sukhoi leaders would be happy if those su-30 did destroy some azeri su-25 or some turkish f-16.

PapaDragon

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Post n°62

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

PapaDragon Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:40 pm

Isos wrote:What we remember of soviet/russian stuff is how bad they did in all their wars. Mig-21 getting stolen by israeli, t-54 getting anhilated by armoured cars in south africa, crashes of indian soviet made migs... ...

And yet people keep buying for nearly a century and counting

Isos wrote:And they keep loosing clients. ...

Do they?

Which ones? Because they are selling like crazy

Isos wrote:You can be sure that sukhoi leaders would be happy if those su-30 did destroy some azeri su-25 or some turkish f-16....

Sukhoi sells fighter jets not testicles

What Armenians need Sukhoi doesn't manufacture

Plus Armenia wasn't not participant in this war, Nagorno Karabah was and Nagorno Karabah doesn't operate Sukhoi's products

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Backman

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Post n°63

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Backman Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:33 pm

Isos wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Saudis are getting their asses kicked in Yemen but you don't see General Dynamics getting their panties in a bunch

They care about foreign loses of their equipment.

They spend their time hiding loses of US equipment so that they can say stuff like 104-0 wins for f-15.

What we remember of soviet/russian stuff is how bad they did in all their wars. Mig-21 getting stolen by israeli, t-54 getting anhilated by armoured cars in south africa, crashes of indian soviet made migs...

And they keep loosing clients.

You can be sure that sukhoi leaders would be happy if those su-30 did destroy some azeri su-25 or some turkish f-16.

Taiwan just lost 2 F-16's in less than a month. I've lost count of how many F-35's have crashed already. For every fuckup that Russia has, the Nato/US side also has one to compare.

Remember the embarrassing incident with the drydock sinking for the Kuznetsov ? Well that was a good laugh for the Nato boys. Then this happened :

2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3 - Page 3 5c1919e13224ed619018724a?width=1100&format=jpeg&auto=webp

2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3 - Page 3 5c1919e13224ed619018724a?width=1100&format=jpeg&auto=webp

a 2.5 billion+ dollar F-up

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PapaDragon

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Post n°64

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

PapaDragon Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:55 pm

Turning West already? Cool

Armenia felt Russia's support during the war in Karabakh, Pashinyan says

https://tass.com/world/1226317

Armenia PM Urges Stronger Military Links With Russia

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/11/21/13-a72109

Isos

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Post n°65

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Isos Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:01 pm

Taiwan just lost 2 F-16's in less than a month. I've lost count of how many F-35's have crashed already. For every fuckup that Russia has, the Nato/US side also has one to compare.

Remember the embarrassing incident with the drydock sinking for the Kuznetsov ? Well that was a good laugh for the Nato boys. Then this happened :

That's peace time loses. I'm talking about war loses. And I'm not saying they hide everything but try to hide everything. And it seems to work fine.

Scorpius

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Post n°66

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Scorpius Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:40 pm

Isos wrote:

Taiwan just lost 2 F-16's in less than a month. I've lost count of how many F-35's have crashed already. For every fuckup that Russia has, the Nato/US side also has one to compare.

Remember the embarrassing incident with the drydock sinking for the Kuznetsov ? Well that was a good laugh for the Nato boys. Then this happened :

That's peace time loses. I'm talking about war loses. And I'm not saying they hide everything but try to hide everything. And it seems to work fine.

1. Armenia never really entered the war.
2. The purchase of ammunition for weapons is the buyer's concern. You don't blame the oil companies for forgetting to fill up your car's tank.

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Isos

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Post n°67

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Isos Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:43 pm

They used ballistic missiles. They used their air defence systems (tor on images from turkish drones) that NK doesn't operate.

They entered the war.

Don't try to find them excuses.

PapaDragon

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Post n°68

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

PapaDragon Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:29 pm

GarryB wrote:

Dude, seriously...

This nonsense doesn't work even in videogames

Of course... training troops to volley fire at air targets is nonsense... maybe they just stick their thumbs up their own asses and pray for their god to protect them from UAVs perhaps?

They can volley fire 'till they shit themselves, bullets still don’t fly higher than couple of kilometres at best and drones fly much higher than that

Isos wrote:They used ballistic missiles. They used their air defence systems (tor on images from turkish drones) that NK doesn't operate.

They entered the war.

Don't try to find them excuses.

If this is how they fight full scale war then they suck at it royally and should just stop wasting time with this whole independent nation nonsense are let themselves be absorbed by either Turkey or Russia

Backman

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Post n°69

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Backman Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:58 am

Isos wrote:

Taiwan just lost 2 F-16's in less than a month. I've lost count of how many F-35's have crashed already. For every fuckup that Russia has, the Nato/US side also has one to compare.

Remember the embarrassing incident with the drydock sinking for the Kuznetsov ? Well that was a good laugh for the Nato boys. Then this happened :

That's peace time loses. I'm talking about war loses. And I'm not saying they hide everything but try to hide everything. And it seems to work fine.

WTF no. See this page for the losses in the Yemen war and then you'd probably retract that claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_shootdowns_and_accidents_during_the_Saudi_Arabian-led_intervention_in_Yemen We would have to compare all the data on all the wars. Show me the data that adds up all of Russia built equipment losses vs western equipment.

Here are just some notables. The page is full. Too much to post

26 March 2015 – During the opening strikes, a Royal Saudi Air Force F-15S crashed into the Gulf of Aden after circling around over the sea;

May 2015 – Damaged or Destroyed– A Saudi Arabian Army Aviation Boeing AH-64 Apache helicopter made an emergency landing just inside the Yemeni territory in Najran, because of a technical failure.

May 2015 – At 18:00 local time, one Royal Moroccan Air Force F-16C Block 52, serial number 08-8008, crashed in Saadah, while performing a mission as part of the Saudi-led intervention in Yemen.

30 December 2015 – A RBAF F-16C crashed in Jizan Region, Saudi Arabia. A military source reported that the pilot ejected and survived the crash.

March 2016 – A UAEAF Dassault Mirage 2000-9D crashed in the southern Yemeni city of Aden during a combat operation in the early morning hours, killing its two pilots.

24 February 2017 – A Royal Jordanian Air Force F-16 crashed in Najran, Saudi Arabia, a military source reported that the pilot survived the crash.

September 2017 – A RSAF Eurofighter Typhoon involved in close air support mission against Houthi fighters over Yemen crashed into a mountain in Al Wade’a district, reportedly due to a technical malfunction. The pilot died in the crash.[46]

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Isos

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Post n°70

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Isos Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:29 am

Yes "crashed", "crashed" and "crashed".

You will never find one that was "destroyed".

They put lot of effort to hide it

Tai Hai Chen

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Post n°71

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Tai Hai Chen Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:06 am

IMO Armenia should have bought 40 Wing Loong 2 attack drones instead of 4 Su-30SM fighter jets they never use anyway. 40 Wing Loong 2 attack drones would have decimated Azerbaijani army.

https://eurasiantimes.com/why-chinese-drones-instead-of-russian-su-30-jets-could-have-helped-armenia-beat-azerbaijan-in-karabakh-war/

Tai Hai Chen

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Post n°72

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Tai Hai Chen Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:09 am

PapaDragon wrote:
Turning West already?

Armenia felt Russia's support during the war in Karabakh, Pashinyan says

https://tass.com/world/1226317

Armenia PM Urges Stronger Military Links With Russia

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/11/21/13-a72109

Pashinyan is neutral but the next PM will be pro west.

George1

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Post n°73

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

George1 Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:50 am

Tai Hai Chen wrote:IMO Armenia should have bought 40 Wing Loong 2 attack drones instead of 4 Su-30SM fighter jets they never use anyway. 40 Wing Loong 2 attack drones would have decimated Azerbaijani army.

https://eurasiantimes.com/why-chinese-drones-instead-of-russian-su-30-jets-could-have-helped-armenia-beat-azerbaijan-in-karabakh-war/

Υοu have posted it 4-5 times already. If you repeat it i will consider it as spamming

Tai Hai Chen

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Post n°74

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Tai Hai Chen Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:01 am

https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1330330131416686593

https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1330113031460761602

Backman

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Post n°75

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

Backman Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:14 am

Tai Hai Chen wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Turning West already?

Armenia felt Russia's support during the war in Karabakh, Pashinyan says

https://tass.com/world/1226317

Armenia PM Urges Stronger Military Links With Russia

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/11/21/13-a72109

Pashinyan is neutral but the next PM will be pro west.

I doubt it. Its just not doable. I think everyone is coming to this realization.

Maybe if there was a regime change in Turkey and a moderate western proxy came into power. But then you'd have to regime change Azerbaijan also. Because the minute Erdogan is gone, Aliyev would snuggle up to Russia.

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