[Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/pyotr-velikys-sisters-sail-again

The above from 2011 article seems to be the only accurate one on the subject of Kirov class cruisers.



The Admiral Lazarev was allegedly to be scrapped. Clearly not.

Yeah, a coat of paint clearly means it will be kept.
The pic isn't even new, I don't understand this sudden surge of "Wiki was wrong111!!".

The ship is a goner, end of story. There is absolutely no official indication that there are any plans to modernize it . Even Sevmash has said it has no plans to modernize Frunze.

TR1 wrote:Yeah, a coat of paint clearly means it will be kept.
The pic isn't even new, I don't understand this sudden surge of "Wiki was wrong111!!".

The ship is a goner, end of story. There is absolutely no official indication that there are any plans to modernize it . Even Sevmash has said it has no plans to modernize Frunze.

I see only opportunity for a ship like this, and this is why.

The Baltic/Black sea could use a ship like Frunze as Black sea lost most of its fleet to Ukraine after the fall of the USSR. They have the new Gorshkov frigates being sent there, but as they are the main Ukraine force, Frunze would make the Black Sea fleet a threat to the NATO bordering countries. She would be the only cruiser in the Baltic fleet, which would add termendous firepower to them.

IMHO i dont think the Frunze would be getting scrapped, as Russia could use it to full some holes from the fall of the USSR.

It would be a whale in a swimming pool to keep her in the Black Sea... but for operations in the Med and through the Suez Canal to the Indian ocean would be very good.

They really have two main fleets... Northern and Pacific, so assuming two Kirovs and a total of three Slava class vessels, I would think that to upgrade all three Slavas and both viable Kirovs that you would end up with a Kirov class in the Northern and Pacific Fleets, plus a Slava in each fleet and perhaps a Slava in the Black Sea. Adding another Kirov would make sense to the Black Sea for operations in the Med and further afield...

GarryB wrote:It would be a whale in a swimming pool to keep her in the Black Sea... but for operations in the Med and through the Suez Canal to the Indian ocean would be very good.

They really have two main fleets... Northern and Pacific, so assuming two Kirovs and a total of three Slava class vessels, I would think that to upgrade all three Slavas and both viable Kirovs that you would end up with a Kirov class in the Northern and Pacific Fleets, plus a Slava in each fleet and perhaps a Slava in the Black Sea. Adding another Kirov would make sense to the Black Sea for operations in the Med and further afield...

If they were to upgrade a Slava class, what would they be adding to it?

Naval Fan wrote:

GarryB wrote:It would be a whale in a swimming pool to keep her in the Black Sea... but for operations in the Med and through the Suez Canal to the Indian ocean would be very good.

They really have two main fleets... Northern and Pacific, so assuming two Kirovs and a total of three Slava class vessels, I would think that to upgrade all three Slavas and both viable Kirovs that you would end up with a Kirov class in the Northern and Pacific Fleets, plus a Slava in each fleet and perhaps a Slava in the Black Sea. Adding another Kirov would make sense to the Black Sea for operations in the Med and further afield...

If they were to upgrade a Slava class, what would they be adding to it?

They are currently, but is a small modernization. Originally it was not expected that the ship would receive any major new systems, so this is a pleasant surprise. Ustinov received Podberezovik radar already, and who knows, might even get Fort-M.

TR1 wrote:

Naval Fan wrote:

GarryB wrote:It would be a whale in a swimming pool to keep her in the Black Sea... but for operations in the Med and through the Suez Canal to the Indian ocean would be very good.

They really have two main fleets... Northern and Pacific, so assuming two Kirovs and a total of three Slava class vessels, I would think that to upgrade all three Slavas and both viable Kirovs that you would end up with a Kirov class in the Northern and Pacific Fleets, plus a Slava in each fleet and perhaps a Slava in the Black Sea. Adding another Kirov would make sense to the Black Sea for operations in the Med and further afield...

If they were to upgrade a Slava class, what would they be adding to it?

They are currently, but is a small modernization. Originally it was not expected that the ship would receive any major new systems, so this is a pleasant surprise. Ustinov received Podberezovik radar already, and who knows, might even get Fort-M.

They are going to modernize all 3 by 2020?

Kimppis wrote:

TR1 wrote:

Naval Fan wrote:

GarryB wrote:It would be a whale in a swimming pool to keep her in the Black Sea... but for operations in the Med and through the Suez Canal to the Indian ocean would be very good.

They really have two main fleets... Northern and Pacific, so assuming two Kirovs and a total of three Slava class vessels, I would think that to upgrade all three Slavas and both viable Kirovs that you would end up with a Kirov class in the Northern and Pacific Fleets, plus a Slava in each fleet and perhaps a Slava in the Black Sea. Adding another Kirov would make sense to the Black Sea for operations in the Med and further afield...

If they were to upgrade a Slava class, what would they be adding to it?

They are currently, but is a small modernization. Originally it was not expected that the ship would receive any major new systems, so this is a pleasant surprise. Ustinov received Podberezovik radar already, and who knows, might even get Fort-M.

They are going to modernize all 3 by 2020?

Hell naw.

Moskva is up next, will start work either this year or the next @ the 13th repair yard in Sevastopol. Hopefully will be back in fleet service by 2020.

Decision on Lazarov still pending - Peter the Great will go through another deep modernization

The military told about the future of nuclear cruisers of "Orlan"

I would expect any decisions on a deep upgrade of Lazarev will depend on how the other upgrades go and what the Navy thinks of them...

Good to see the deep upgrade being mentioned... little or no upgrade means they will be exceptions in the fleet.... needing old non standard weapons and systems and equipment.... which would be a pain in the backside operationally and logistically.

TR1 wrote:
Hell naw.

Moskva is up next, will start work either this year or the next @ the 13th repair yard in Sevastopol. Hopefully will be back in fleet service by 2020.

SO we might see mightier 30N6 in place of Volna..Good news.

Stealthflanker wrote:

TR1 wrote:
Hell naw.

Moskva is up next, will start work either this year or the next @ the 13th repair yard in Sevastopol. Hopefully will be back in fleet service by 2020.

SO we might see mightier 30N6 in place of Volna..Good news.

Have not seen it yet on Ustinov though, so the prospects are not great IMO.

George1 wrote:Nuclear cruiser "Peter the Great" will get new missiles

So it happens.. "Onixification" of Kirov. Well It'll be massive i guess given that to exploit space in Peter the Great..Those Granit launchers would be gone.

Stealthflanker wrote:

George1 wrote:Nuclear cruiser "Peter the Great" will get new missiles

So it happens.. "Onixification" of Kirov. Well It'll be massive i guess given that to exploit space in Peter the Great..Those Granit launchers would be gone.

Kalibrification is more significant here than Onixification IMO.

TR1 wrote:

Kalibrification is more significant here than Onixification IMO.

hmm Kalibr. Anyway did Russians adopt the supersonic Kalibr ? The one with supersonic kill vehicle and subsonic cruise stage (3M54)

It appears to be more promising than "all supersonic" Oniks.

Yes, but that is only anti ship.

The biggest leap here (IMO) is the very long range land attack Kalibr. This is a huge capability leap that was previously non-existent on 1144s, as well as the Russian navy as a whole (nuclear Granat aside).

With 10 UKSK modules, the Russian Navy can actually project power in the form of cruise missiles strikes now.

And just as important.... every Russian port will stock ammo for the UKSK launchers... whether it is anti sub, anti ship, or land attack, so when a Kirov class ship arrives in the Baltic it has the same launch tubes as the corvette at the pier next to it... it just has ten times more.

Obviously that corvette will hardly ever carry land attack cruise missiles in its tubes, more often anti sub and anti ship missiles... but the option is there.

it's kinda pain though to see Granit disappear

Stealthflanker wrote:it's kinda pain though to see Granit disappear  

I doubt they would retire it without a better-than-equivalent replacement. I do not see any evidence of
cost cutting and lack of capacity for technological improvement. These days Russian missiles can be
half the size and do the same damage.

Granit is a very powerful weapon, but think of it as being a huge turbojet powered aircraft with a rocket booster.

Onyx is less than half the weight though it is still a big missile it is just as fast, if not faster and is rocket ramjet powered... ie simpler, lighter, cheaper, faster. It has a range of at least 500km... some say 700km, which is about the same as the range the Granit is speculated to have.

the electronics of the Onyx is miles ahead of the electronics of the 1980s Granit so new secret capabilities are likely... and the next step is the Zirconium which replaces the ramjet with a scramjet and likely will be getting into service in the early 2020s... using the same UKSK tubes.., so practically every vessel in the fleet by then will immediately be able to carry it.

Would Admiral Nakhimov be able to take on a Carrier by herself? I know there was a comparision between Pytor Velikiy been sunk before she could reach a carrier. Will the modified Admiral Nakhimov be able to do it?

GarryB wrote:Granit is a very powerful weapon, but think of it as being a huge turbojet powered aircraft with a rocket booster.

Onyx is less than half the weight though it is still a big missile it is just as fast, if not faster and is rocket ramjet powered... ie simpler, lighter, cheaper, faster. It has a range of at least 500km... some say 700km, which is about the same as the range the Granit is speculated to have.

the electronics of the Onyx is miles ahead of the electronics of the 1980s Granit so new secret capabilities are likely... and the next step is the Zirconium which replaces the ramjet with a scramjet and likely will be getting into service in the early 2020s... using the same UKSK tubes.., so practically every vessel in the fleet by then will immediately be able to carry it.

Accoeding to Wiki, the range of a P-800 is only 300 kilometres. Is this true or is it lies?

Naval Fan wrote:

GarryB wrote:Granit is a very powerful weapon, but think of it as being a huge turbojet powered aircraft with a rocket booster.

Onyx is less than half the weight though it is still a big missile it is just as fast, if not faster and is rocket ramjet powered... ie simpler, lighter, cheaper, faster. It has a range of at least 500km... some say 700km, which is about the same as the range the Granit is speculated to have.

the electronics of the Onyx is miles ahead of the electronics of the 1980s Granit so new secret capabilities are likely... and the next step is the Zirconium which replaces the ramjet with a scramjet and likely will be getting into service in the early 2020s... using the same UKSK tubes.., so practically every vessel in the fleet by then will immediately be able to carry it.

Accoeding to Wiki, the range of a P-800 is only 300 kilometres. Is this true or is it lies?

Export restricted range.

Russian missile has significantly longer range.