US-Iran standoff 2019-

Iran Atomic Energy Organization chief (AEOI) Ali Akbar Salehi. starts injecting gas into 30- IR-6 centrifuges cascade in Natanz Nuclear Facility, as step of reducing JCPOA commitment
https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/11/04/610371/Salehi-IR6-centrifuges-Natanz-enrichment

Iran Atomic Energy Organization chief (AEOI) Ali Akbar Salehi. unveiling IR-9 nuclear uranium enrichment centrifuge with power of 50 SWU \ IR-7 centrifuge
https://financialtribune.com/articles/national/100406/report-ir-9-centrifuges-to-increase-enrichment-capacity

Excellent... Iran is raising the stakes without attacking anyone or imposing sanctions that effect poor people... how civilised of them...

https://en.mehrnews.com/news/151984/Iran-s-4th-step-away-from-JCPOA-to-have-no-impact-on-West-s-behavior

These metal tubes and yellow powder in a bag look very frightening. I almost had nightmare about them .........

Iran Undertakes 4th Step in Scaling Down JCPOA (Iran nuclear deal) Commitment: start of Uranium enrichment with 1,044 centrifuges at Fordow
https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/11/06/610563/AEOI-fordow-nuclear-facility-uranium-enrichment

They can either do nothing or tighten the screws... there is no way the US wants to go to war with Iran now, so why not?

I think this is funny... the US basically helped Israel and Pakistan with their nuclear programmes to get nuclear weapons and turned a blind eye to India doing the same... the only country in the region that did the right thing and signed up to the nuclear nonproliferation treaty was Iran and they have been punished for it ever since...

nomadski wrote:
https://en.mehrnews.com/news/151984/Iran-s-4th-step-away-from-JCPOA-to-have-no-impact-on-West-s-behavior

These metal tubes and yellow powder in a bag look very frightening. I almost had nightmare about them .........

nomadski, I read somewhere that one major reason why Iran can't give up its nuclear weapons program is because across the border Pakistan is already a nuclear power and has nuclear tipped ballistic missiles aimed at Iran. Is this true ?

So apart from Sunni states e.g Saudi Arabia and Israel which are the other countries in Asia that Iran considers to be an adversary - Pakistan, India ....?

There is no real evidence that Iran is even working to make nuclear weapons, and if there was their only reason for doing so would be to make Israel and the US and Saudi Arabia back the fuck off.

Iran did everything right... they signed the NPT treaty, they followed its rules, they allowed inspections which they passed, and yet Israel and the US continue to claim they have a nuclear weapons programme and threaten them with economic and military sanctions and regime change... talk about a self fulfilling prophesy... if you pick a random man on the street and knock him down and say he was threatening you and you keep holding him on the ground saying he is threatening to hurt you you can't let him up anymore simply because when you do he is going to kick your ass for being such a .

If you then use this as proof you were right all along someone who was not paying attention might think you have a point... he is very aggressive and seems to want to punch your face in... but only because you tackled him to the ground for no reason and make unfounded accusations... in the trial later on of course you would normally expect the truth to come out but in this case the victim is foreign and the attacker is a well respected businessman so the foreign guy is screwed... you wont hear about the businessman performing a home invasion and killing a few of these guys kids in the process, but that is totally ignored by the western media and the western court... which is practically the same thing... the same money and the same people likely have control.

If I had nuclear weapons, I would send it to Iran with some flowers and chocolates.... as a gift for them to defend themselves... like the US did with Pakistan and Israel... nudge nudge wink wink.

We keep getting told Israel needs those nukes to defend itself in case its neighbours get nukes, but we are also told Israels neighbours can't have nukes and that Israel has the right to self defence.

Stopped listening to such people a long time ago.

@jhelb

Don't start me up again on this nukes problem. Everyone knows my views. I am pro nuclear weapons. For everyone. Yes everyone. Nukes have two important uses. Power generation and peace keeping. Humanity only chance to survive conventional war annihilation, is by possessing weapons that make wars unwinnable and unfightable. The Iranians first need reliable delivery systems. Rockets. They then need stockpile. And quick dash for nukes. But they have religious objections to nukes. And they can not build them. So they just display some tubes and play with percentages. And hope or think they can not be attacked and they will survive sanctions. But war is a constant in human history. And I  think they want to fight conventional war. They think they can win or not be destroyed. By sending human wave attacks. Well against Burkino Faso, they are right. Some missiles and human wave attack will work. But not against yank or Nuke armed state......... They have problems with politics..........defence policy.........mixed up with religion.

Iran AEOI Start of Concrete Pouring of the Second Unit Reactor of Bushehr Nuclear Power Plant
https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/441854/Concrete-casting-operation-starts-at-phase-II-of-Bushehr-nuclear

IRAN is under siege... it is facing major protest in several cities over rise in fuel prices
and economic deterioration ...

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201911161077323429-iraq-closes-border-with-iran-at-tehrans-request---reports/


All those claiming US sanctions don't work.. including @GarryB
and others so called "experts" are just amateurs in understanding the real dimensions of american sanctions..

US sanctions which is part of the new Cold War ,in combination with all economic warfare attacks ,
that also include war on oil prices and war on Ukraine and Syria ,if put all things combined .Their hit
on Russia economy is huge.. Russia lost in just 1 year 100 $ USD billions from business and a lot more
with oil prices war ,that Americans started against Russia.. on top of the conflicts that Forced Russia
military to interfere.. this put the losses on Russia economy from 2014 to 2019 from 300 billion to 500 billions
$USD dollars.  Money that Russia have to spend in reaction to US attacks , so called cold war.

Fortunately Russia managed to balance the budget. Russia did the right thing.. in defending sovereignty ,
but the loses on Russia economy were not meaningless as the fanboys in this forum ,made it to look..

IRAN is also facing major poverty , and without Russia and China help ,it will have been crushed already..
by the economic sanctions alone.. I dont care if IRAN get nukes ,but they are not in a position to tell Europe
or Russia ,what they need to do in order to avoid the collapse of its economy.. is the other way..

IRAN needs to cooperate with European Union ,that needs their oil and wants their oil ,and can help its
economy.. but they will not risk major sanctions from US.. to help IRAN develop its nuclear capabilities and  sovereignty..

There are things that neither IRAN or Syria understand.. Sovereignty is not free.. you have to earn it..
you need to fight for it.. and just because IRAN have a right for nuclear energy ,does not means that
is right to push for it..at the expense of isolation of its economy.. Europe and Russia can help IRAN
but neither they will do it in a way , that is too difficult for them to help ..  

A nuclear reactor is useless for IRAN ,vs the consequences having one ,have in their economy.
It is true that Americans will sanction IRAN anyway with or without nuclear reactor , but if they drop
their nuclear reactor ,US will no longer have a reason to pressure Europe over doing business with IRAN.
All said.. IRANian government needs to stop its selfish behavior.. that all that matter is their right and nothing
else.. we live in a world that rights are not respected by those who control the banks and financial institutions.
So things have to be done as a TEAM . . Is a team Job ,how you defeat the US system.. and IRAN will only
have a chance to survive its economy and continue keeping its nation integrity and sovereignty ,
even if it is not perfect .. if works as a team with Europe and Russia , instead of how it is now.. That IRAN
refuse any kind of re-negotiation with US ,following EU and Russia guidelines..

Being completely inflexible , will only make IRAN a more difficult to help Nation.. and IRAN needs to recognize
that without Europe and Russia ,they will completely collapse its economy and later will have to negotiate
from a position of major weakness ,with US. to avoid a war ,the Jews are pushing US to start.

China also have their own interest ,and one of them is to have access to American market and so they ended major cooperation projects with IRAN in the energy sector..  Russia also have their own interest too.. and so will not sacrifice too much for nothing ,just for helping IRANians Ego .

Imagine that... if Syria did not followed Russia guidelines.. and Assad started a war on their own against
Israel ,Turkey ,Jordan ,basically most of their neighbors in 2015-2016 as the military wanted ,the story today will have been different. .and Russia will just have left Syria ..if Syrians did not followed Russia strategy.
and Syria over run. by ISIS.  

So it will not be surprising if IRAN collapse. the way Lybia did it... because it doesn't have a government that truly represent all sectors of society ,specially the women . and young generations.. IRAN government religious fanaticism ,combined with self isolation , refusing to follow the guidelines of Russia and Europe ,to be more flexible, will bring down IRAN sooner or later.. is a similar way Lybia split ,but without a military invasion.. will be taken down from the inside.. when economy completely collapse. and will have to negotiate later ,and abandon its nuclear reactor and many of its policies ,from a much weaker position.

Trump will love to get a deal with IRAN ,that will help him win the elections ,Europe will love to do business too with IRAN.. Russia will also like to end the near war confrontations between US and IRAN ,but those can't be made if there is complete state of war between US and IRAN. Russia will never have good relations with US ,but
it neither have near war relations with US at least for now.. Because Russia have not closed the door with the west.. for negotiations..while at same time keep its military strong. while IRAN all it have done is.. Our door is closed ..and wake us Europe ,when you agree to continue the Obama deal..without US on it.
Europe as much they want to do business with IRAN ,they will never do it.. if they have to sacrifice losing
the US market.

Tsavo Lion wrote:US military pivoting from Mideast

This could be more
Preparations with war with IRAN...

They will not like to have surprises ..that IRANian attack that center.. and generals killed..
and so they moving their decision centers away of IRAN missiles reach.. in case a major war
in middle east start.. that scale to nuclear dimensions.. with Israel and Russia fighting each other.

Their hit
on Russia economy is huge.. Russia lost in just 1 year 100 $ USD billions from business and a lot more
with oil prices war ,that Americans started against Russia.. on top of the conflicts that Forced Russia
military to interfere.. this put the losses on Russia economy from 2014 to 2019 from 300 billion to 500 billions
$USD dollars. Money that Russia have to spend in reaction to US attacks , so called cold war.

That is just bullshit Vann... if I suddenly accused you of being a child molester with no evidence that would literally be a crime, but when the US makes false accusations and then bans trade it is claimed to be Americas right to choose who it does business with.

The fact of the matter is that Russia has not lost 100 billion dollars in trade with the US... Russia never had that level of trade with the US... that is why the US was keen to impose sanctions because it really didn't effect most US companies.

The EU on the other hand probably did have about 100 billion dollars per year in trade with Russia before the sanctions started so in that case both Russia and the EU countries have suffered... but for both countries that money investment would just be used elsewhere... the Russians expanding trade with non US and non EU countries... that 100 billion dollars didn't just disappear... it was redirected to other places... and most importantly for Russia it has enabled them to develop their agriculture which was stunted by cheap EU food imports that made it tough for Russian companies to compete, but by blocking EU food imports, the Russian food industry has flourished... so for all the deals they lost, they gained something different and I can assure you that US investment in Russian oil would mostly benefit US companies and investors because they would basically extract money from the Russian economy... food production on the other hand makes Russia stronger and more independent and also allows them to export new products to allies and friends... it adds a dimension to the Russian economy they didn't have before and makes them stronger.

Trade with Asia and other countries is increasing because options in the west are not longer present. Certainly there is some cost, but it has been a price well worth paying for Russia in so very many ways... new markets and new products makes them stronger and the money earned is clean money... not just printed monopoly money.

The fewer ties between Russia and the West the better it is for Russia and the rest of the world.

If Russia was still trading with the EU they would be importing EU food and not exporting Russian food to other countries that want clean food without steroids or other growth hormones or are genetically engineered.

BTW the west does not invest money in Russia to help Russia... they invest money in Russia to make money and there is money to be made there so these sanctions and bans are reducing the amount of money the west can leech out of Russia... which is also a good thing for Russia.

All those claiming US sanctions don't work.. including @GarryB Laughing
and others so called "experts" are just amateurs in understanding the real dimensions of american sanctions..

US sanctions don't work. US sanctions on Russia are intended to make them withdraw from the Crimea and supposedly from eastern ukraine... the sanctions have not and will not have those effects. US troops in the Baltic States and Poland and the Ukraine are there to stop Russia from invading those countries, but Russia has no intention of invading any of those countries. Obliterating them perhaps... to remove the threat they represent, but not invade them.

Look around the world... US sanctions on Iran to stop them getting nuclear weapon capability are forcing Iran to build nuclear weapons to defend themselves from unreasonable American demands... in Venezuela the US is imposing crippling sanctions to get Maduro to step down... and he isn't... in Syria the US has had sanctions and has been arming terrorists to get rid of Assad... in Cuba to get rid of Castro... who eventually died of old age... in North Korea... the list goes on and none of them have worked.

In Bolivia... threatening the leadership with death threats seemed to have worked in the short term but I can see that changing too... the people are not happy... the majority that voted him in to power...

So yes... US and EU sanctions don't work, but what they do do is make the average person suffer and struggle more than they need to... but they are the dream machine... the centre of democracy and civilisation and peace and love... they are doing it to you for your own good so you should thank them for it... especially if they ever win and get their way and create a utopia... like Libya and Ukraine and Iraq and Afghanistan and Yemen...

[quote="GarryB"]

So yes... US and EU sanctions don't work, but what they do do is make the average person suffer and struggle more than they need to... but they are the dream machine... the centre of democracy and civilisation and peace and love... they are doing it to you for your own good so you should thank them for it... especially if they ever win and get their way and create a utopia... like Libya and Ukraine and Iraq and Afghanistan and Yemen...

LOL...

Americans elite and police makers are not as naive as you think dude.. they are not dumb.. they know Russia will never abandon Crimea.. and will prefer a world war 3 ,because giving it to kiev.

The US sanctions on Russia ,Iran and Venezuela are there ,to significantly slow down the potential of those
countries economic development.. and with the added bonus of provoke a civil war ,and split of the nation
if with time ,the economy collapse . which is the a possibility for economies like Venezuela and IRAN .

So Sanctions do work dude.. stop promoting non sense.. they were part of something bigger ,many
anti Russian policies ,that all of them were aimed and destroying the Russian economy. So instead of Russia economy have a 10% gdp growth. as they had at times... they have 1%.. so Russia lost like 2-3% GDP of its GDP in short term ,withing the first year of sanctions alone.

Even RT says Russia military industry lose money because of the sanctions..

So sanctions do work.. but they are only part of many other measures that when combined limit
significatively the capability of Russia , (and so every other nation like Venezuela or IRAN)/
President of Venezuela , NICOLAS MADURO told.. they lost $200 billions dollars due to AMerican sanctions
in just 1 year of economic warfare. .and that doesn't include the Gold stolen of them..
So is he lying????

I think you need to stop the fanboyism, sanctions do work.. Russia bank itself told
they lost like $100 billion dollars ,from *business with Europe*..  and this one during the first year alone..
of course this hurt Europe..but so what? the point still stand is that sanctions do work.. in slowing down Russia economy. And when combined with war on OIL prices by OBAMA  (which is part of the economic attacks of US on Russia) and combined with provoking a war in Ukraine and Syria.. this do damage the potential of Russia economy ,to the point of having to cut in half , the space industry budget and the military budget too..  

Even if sanctions slow down American economy too , the point still stand.. that Sanctions + Economic war /Cold War/ Oil War/ Civil wars that Americans provoke.. they do damage significantly Russia economy.. because energy industry give the biggest boost to Russian economy.  and AMericans logic is , yes sanctions also damage our economy too.. but it damage more Russian one.. and this is their goal.. To bring down Russia economy
at any cost.. even if that means slowing down Europe and America economy too.. their logic is because their economy fake or not.. is stronger.. they can survive better ,a global recession ..than Russia.

US cold war = US sanctions + many other economic sabotages and conflicts they provoke to damage Russia interest.

US cold war ,are pure brilliant economic war plan against Russia.. includes war on Oil prices and desetabilization of Nations important for Russia economy..  the did it to the soviet Union too and it crushed their economy and this created a major civil discontent and helped the raise of separatist movements..and so this split Russia native lands from Russia. .including Ukraine and Belarus and kazakistan..

What is different now.. that Russia did not collapse.. like Soviet Union did.. is that the Russian government have managed to minimize the damages ,by being careful with spending.. by diversification of the economy. by not falling in the ARM race trap ,that Americans are pushing.. (which seeks to make Russia over spend in military of what they can't) and also Putin keeping Russia Open ,instead of closed to Europe ,and avoiding the repeat of  the Afgan trap scenarios of sending expensive military forces to fight vietnams long foreign wars...  they basically balanced their spending and developed a policy to defend their interest without over spending too much..

So Russian government have been able to stay afloat and survive for now ,US economic war/cold war.

But this does not means that US sanctions are not working..  
they are damaging Russia economy its grow potential and all that Americans needs to finish the job ,
is provoke major protest in Russia.. similar to france yellow vest.. and or provoke a new war..
with Ukraine to force Russian full army to invade to restore order.. to get that Russian economy to a major big recession again ,to a major economic collapse ,when Russia have to feed Ukraine after a full scale war..

And for the only reason this have not happened is because of the European Union ,refusing to cooperate more
beyond the first wave of sanctions on Russia..  

So the point in all this .. is not to question here Russia policies.. like u said Russia is defending its interest and in a logical way.. not in a crazy way like IRAN..is doing..  that expect everyone else to sacrifice their economies for their right to have a nuclear reactor.

The point is that US sanctions ,US cold war in Russia do work.. do damage Russia economy significantly..
when Americans were leaving more or less leaving Russia alone..during their "WAr on terror" ,after WTC 9/11 twin tower attacks..  from year 2000 to year 2011... the average GDP growth of Russia was between 6% to 7%.

and since the Americans strong sanctions began on Russia.. in 2014.. up to 2019.. their average
GDP is less than 1%.  

So US sanctions hit Russia economy GDP growth potential by at least 6% of their economy.  
So don't insult people with the claims ,that US sanctions don't work.. it works very well.. they are
a Long TERM economic aggression on Russia economy..  they have not the impact they expected
in short term...to keep Russia in recession permanently..( thanks to Europe help to Russia.). to work
around not only American sanctions but their own too..  Since Europe sanctions are more for show ,
so that they can claim they supporting US.. too..

So this is the point. .US sanctions.. Economic war do work.. and very well.. but Russia with help of
European Union ,have been able to resist.. the death of its economy.and keep a bare minimum growth
reducing their budget significatively in many areas. in SPACE ALONE , Russia cut its budget in half..

Now IRAN FACE a 50% oil prices hike..  
and later people say american sanctions don't work..    

enjoy the iranian mass scale civil unrest ,courtesy of US sanctions..
this looks like it will be a real big one... that IRAN will not have a chance to recover..
specially when China is backing down from supporting IRAN , for completely logical reasons of not
wanting to lose their market with US.

From RT...  
 Deadly riots across Iran as govt pushes 50% petrol price increase



US sanctions don't work..  

Those US sanctions now creating fireworks across Iranian cities..
they are celebrating their joy for the state of nation economy.

IRAN is now understanding how dangerous enemies they face...US police makers are incredibly smart..
when it comes to destruction of enemies.. and well organized..

Once IRAN economy completely collapse ,not even their nuclear reactor they will have money
to operate..

IRAN should work more closer now with Russia and Europe..
Not only at economic level but politics and local policies too.
they are the only ones that can help IRAN.. to avoid a civil war..
Also open its country to a real secular democracy ,not a religious state..
follow the example of Egypt.. IRAN can't continue with their arrogance ,that the entire world
needs to follow their demands ,even if damage european interest. Is not about Rights now.. but about reality.
And reality is Iran alone can't do it..and without European and Russia help ,without following their guide..
they will be doomed. and will become the next lybia . none of iran oil will matter if they can't sell it to anyone.

Americans elite and police makers are not as naive as you think dude.. they are not dumb..

The American oligarks are not dumb... they are .

they know Russia will never abandon Crimea.. and will prefer a world war 3 ,because giving it to kiev.

They could give a shit about the Crimea... the sanctions are about that... if that didn't happen then the sanctions would be about something else... one way or another Russia and China will be under western sanctions... which is the best thing for Russia and China because the closer and more integrated Russia and China become to the current international economic system, the more control and strings the west gets to manipulate and try to change them... and they will try to change them to allow them to rape and pillage their resources the way they have raped and pillaged every other country trying to enter the so called international community.

Russia and China are better off staying out of that club and developing their own alternative groups and structures.

If the west had been nice to Russia then it is likely the links between west and east would be so tight and strong that the very idea of leaving SWIFT or not using the US dollar for international trade would be suicide for them... fortunately, with repeated threats to block SWIFT or to use the US dollar as a weapon means Russia has developed alternatives to both and they would be immune to such actions... not only that but other countries can see how these things are being used as a weapon and realise they could just as easily be used against them too... Iraq was an ally of the US in the 1980s... it was fighting the good fight against evil Iran... who the decade before that had been an ally of the US with a CIA puppet in control... 70s Iran was good.... 80s Iraq was good, 90s to 2000s Iran and Iraq are bad... now Iraq has been saved from Saddam but runs the risk of falling into a pro Iran orbit so Iraq is borderline good/bad...

Nothing to do with their politics... Iraq was good during the 80s when Saddam was "gassing his own people"... America didn't give a fuck at the time, but when he invaded Kuwaite and risked invading Saudi Arabia he was then accused publicly of gassing Kurds... at the time the American news media blamed Iran for the attack. Of course he did it, but they were Kurdish separatists and hardly "his" people... a bit like a Ukrainian leader bombing and shelling eastern Ukraine or a Georgian politician bombing and shelling South Ossetia...

The US sanctions on Russia ,Iran and Venezuela are there ,to significantly slow down the potential of those
countries economic development.. and with the added bonus of provoke a civil war ,and split of the nation
if with time ,the economy collapse . which is the a possibility for economies like Venezuela and IRAN .

It is funny you say that, because even you admit the chances of an economy collapse for Russia is non existent... and for Venezuela and Iran it is a little lesson for them to stop trying to suck up to the west and buy their aircraft and products... if they want to not just survive, but also develop and grow they need to totally turn their backs on the west and look to other options... previously the other options were slim but they are getting better with American and European actions showing them for what they are.

So Sanctions do work dude.. stop promoting non sense.. they were part of something bigger ,many
anti Russian policies ,that all of them were aimed and destroying the Russian economy.

Sanctions were supposed to remove Maduro from power. Sanctions were supposed to stop the Iranians from making nuclear bombs. Sanctions were supposed to make Russia give up the Crimea and withdraw forces from Eastern Ukraine.

The Sanctions have not only failed miserably, but they have forced those countries to hunker down and look at alternatives to the west and the US and are in effect reducing the power of the US, both in those countries, and in other independent countries that see the US and the West as irrational bullies using their economic power to bully other countries to do what the US tells them to do even though they have no right to do so.

They are both a serious failure, they have backfired... they are costing US companies hundreds of billions of dollars because you can bet your ass those US oil companies wont be winning contracts for Venezuelan or Iranian or Russian oil... now add up the oil reserves of those countries and tell me how many trillions of dollars the US is going to miss out on... not just from lost or missed out contracts, but also because that oil and gas is going to be pumped by a competitor... and it is going to be pumped in Roubles or Euros or some other currency that isn't US dollars.

These sanctions have had worse than no effect, they have made the US and the west look fucking stupid and cost them trillions of dollars.

But you know the solution... more sanctions right?

All the Germans needed on the eastern front during WWII was winter clothing and they would have won, because it was those Soviet soldiers seeing those poorly dressed freezing cold german soldiers that cost them the war... hahahahahahahaha.

Even RT says Russia military industry lose money because of the sanctions..

Oh, well it must be true then. I mean obviously US sanctions on Su-35s and S-400s is seriously hurting Russia... not... but sanctions have meant they needed to invest properly in things they previously bought off the shelf... including electronic components that they will now be making for themselves... so when they sell Russian weapons they are fully Russian weapons and they don't need to rely on any foreign supplier for parts or permission... which is a very good thing for them.

So sanctions do work.. but they are only part of many other measures that when combined limit
significatively the capability of Russia , (and so every other nation like Venezuela or IRAN)/
President of Venezuela , NICOLAS MADURO told.. they lost $200 billions dollars due to AMerican sanctions
in just 1 year of economic warfare. .and that doesn't include the Gold stolen of them..
So is he lying????

No, he is not lying, but those 200 billions is mostly the oil they are not selling... they still have the oil... and the price is going up... so in a year or twos time those 200 billion they missed out on could turn into 300 billion dollars worth of oil. They will likely set up processing plants in their own country so they can turn their crude oil into products they can sell themselves for more money... so these sanctions will actually benefit them in the long run because western companies were buying their crude oil cheaply and then processing it and making a bigger profit... now the bigger profit can go to them instead.... thank you American sanctions.

Russia bank itself told
they lost like $100 billion dollars ,from *business with Europe*.. and this one during the first year alone..
of course this hurt Europe..but so what? the point still stand is that sanctions do work..

The europeans are doing business with Russia because they make money in the process. Now that sanctions mean they can't do business Russia needs to look elsewhere for business partners... losing 100 billion dollars is bullshit... there was no 100 billion dollars that was lost... they expected there to be 100 billion dollars in investment and because of the sanctions it didn't happen... no one LOST anything.

And the point is that those 100 billion dollars in trade with the EU that was lost can be more than made up in Asia where there are no sanctions against Russia, except the US controlled SK and Japan... but even the former looks in question to be honest these days.

The so called 100 billion dollars in trade lost with the EU can be more than made up with trade in Asia and Africa and Central and South America... huge number of countries who want investment and trade but have been stung by the west in the past... these sanctions are GOOD for Russia they are forcing them to get off their lazy asses and trade with other countries... countries that offer better more balanced deals where Russia is not getting ripped off... where Russia is not just a third world gas station...

Without these sanctions Russia would still be importing Polish apples and food from other EU states instead of growing its own... relying on the EU to provide safe and healthy food relying on EU regulation to keep out GM foods from the Russian markets... it makes rather more sense to grow your own food, regulate your own farmers... it means as an international player Russia can now provide food aid if it so chooses, and it can survive external powers trying to shut down its food supply by blocking imports.

You say sanctions are effective... they are counter productive... they have not worked... their primary goals have not been achieved... in fact they had the opposite effect... Putin is respected, the Russian economy is actually quite strong, Maduro is in power and not likely to be replaced by that muppet they are suggesting... and it looks like Iranian retaliation to US sanctions is to move forward with developing technology and materials that could be used to make nuclear weapons.

So across the board total failure, and across the board the results have backfired and attempts to weaken have resulting in making them stronger, attempts to stop nuclear proliferation are CAUSING nuclear proliferation, and attempts at regime change have set Maduro in power in concrete.

The only success is Bolivia and there weren't any sanctions involved... just thugs threatening to murder the family of the leader forced him to resign. A leader who didn't spend enough money on the military clearly so they didn't back him up when it mattered.

in slowing down Russia economy. And when combined with war on OIL prices by OBAMA (which is part of the economic attacks of US on Russia) and combined with provoking a war in Ukraine and Syria.. this do damage the potential of Russia economy ,to the point of having to cut in half , the space industry budget and the military budget too..

You may not have noticed but everyones economy is not in good shape at the moment... and the war in the Ukraine meant Russia got back the part it wanted... the Crimea. In the west there is a myth that the Ukraine was pro Russia and that the coup made it pro west but the Ukraine was always pro west... they broke their own ally because their own ally recognised the Russian offer of 15 billion in investments was rather better than 7.5 billion in loans that had to be paid back... despite being anti Russian and anti Putin he took the Russian offer like any person with a brain would... it was the best deal for the Ukraine... and the US paid for a coup to overthrow him... at one stage I think they thought they could take Sevastopol naval base away from Russia, but it all backfired spectacularly.

In Syria they thought they could get rid of Assad and pipe middle east gas and oil to europe to break Russias monopoly of sending gas to europe by pipe, and the result was a lot of people died... a lot of people ran away to Europe and elsewhere and a lot of europeans went to fight for ISIS and learned to be terrorists and now want to go home to Europe... but the real kicker is that Syria asked Russia and Iran for help so both Russia and Iran have sent troops in to the country which has clearly upset Israel.... hahahahaha... and the US is upset about that too as well as Iranian influence in Iraq and Yemen led to a Saudi invasion of Yemen which is doing them serious economic and political damage every day... not enough of course... but I bet if they could wish it away they certainly would because it creates a vacuum where Iran and other countries can step in and wield influence they would otherwise never have.

That drone attack on the Saudi oil fields needed Iranian help... there is no question... but if the Saudis weren't bombing the shit out of Yemen it would never have been possible to launch such an attack.

They are reaping what they sowed... the same with US sanctions... making Russia and China into enemies, and also making them stronger because they are needing to work together to minimise the damage... they are not only minimising the damage, they are becoming stronger because of it... the US is forcing them to grow up and be independent.

Even if sanctions slow down American economy too , the point still stand.. that Sanctions + Economic war /Cold War/ Oil War/ Civil wars that Americans provoke.. they do damage significantly Russia economy.. because energy industry give the biggest boost to Russian economy. and AMericans logic is , yes sanctions also damage our economy too.. but it damage more Russian one.. and this is their goal.. To bring down Russia economy
at any cost.. even if that means slowing down Europe and America economy too.. their logic is because their economy fake or not.. is stronger.. they can survive better ,a global recession ..than Russia.

They are the international economy, but their actions are forcing countries with major portions of the worlds population to seek alternatives that don't include them. With India and China and Russia being excluded what you will find is that in the long term they will create markets and trade ties that don't include the west and the west will suffer, because as Russia and China and India continue to grow they will see the west as the enemy rather than as trade partners and it will be the wests loss. Super fast growth is probably worse than no growth at all, and Russian growth is in production and agriculture... western stagnation is financial services... they don't make anything any more... they have the money and they pay poor countries to make their goods for them... what sort of economic model is that?

The west is the tick drinking blood from a cows ass thinking it is the more civilised and developed life form...

IRAN should work more closer now with Russia and Europe..

Irans only future is to declare they have a nuclear weapon capability, and diversify its trade partners away from the that put it in its current position... ie the US and the EU.

The EU are a bunch of useless in fact worse than useless... there was an agreement that Iran signed and the EU signed and china and Russia and teh US... the US has backed out and imposed sanctions on Iran and the EU and Russia and China regarding Iran... AFAIK Russia and China are trading normally as per the agreement, but the EU has stopped the promised investments and trade with Iran... hense violating its part of the agreement... why should Iran stick to an agreement when the other side in not fulfilling its side... Russia and China weren't applying sanctions on Iran so they don't even need the agreement for that... if the EU wont keep its end of the bargain because it fears US sanctions then why would Iran even think of any trade ties with them because any future trade could be effected by future US sanctions on those companies and countries.

Iran should look to join BRICS and any number of other groups that don't include the west or the US, and expand its trade links to countries that don't bow down to the US. That is their only future.

GarryB wrote:
The EU are a bunch of useless  in fact worse than useless... there was an agreement that Iran signed and the EU signed and china and Russia and teh US... the US has backed out and imposed sanctions on Iran and the EU and Russia and China regarding Iran... AFAIK Russia and China are trading normally as per the agreement, but the EU has stopped the promised investments and trade with Iran... hense violating its part of the agreement... why should Iran stick to an agreement when the other side in not fulfilling its side... Russia and China weren't applying sanctions on Iran so they don't even need the agreement for that... if the EU wont keep its end of the bargain because it fears US sanctions then why would Iran even think of any trade ties with them because any future trade could be effected by future US sanctions on those companies and countries.

Agree absolutely.

Iran should look to join BRICS and any number of other groups that don't include the west or the US, and expand its trade links to countries that don't bow down to the US. That is their only future.

Well, there's a chance the screwball in the White House will be gone by 2021 if not sooner, replaced by someone with sanity, so the JCPA and economic links with the West can be restored after all.

starman wrote:Well, there's a chance the screwball in the White House will be gone by 2021 if not sooner, replaced by someone with sanity, so the JCPA and economic links with the West can be restored after all.

Putin himself could become US president and nothing would change.

The senile old men in congress aren't the ones making decisions. Their backers are. That way the people behind them do not suffer any damages to themselves and can simply replace 'their man' with another face.

Well, there's a chance the screwball in the White House will be gone by 2021 if not sooner, replaced by someone with sanity, so the JCPA and economic links with the West can be restored after all.

The problem is that a large portion of the US population supports Trump and his ham fisted actions in international affairs... I really don't think anyone that replaces him is going to be Iran friendly... Iran is better off looking to the growing powers rather than the declining ones... I really don't think the EU can sort its shit out and even if they could they are still only as trustworthy as the current resident in the Whitehouse... which is not at all...

Trump or Dirty Hillary... it is a shit sandwich either way... either with fake tan or with a stick up her ass.

Putin himself could become US president and nothing would change.

Rather true... no matter what the president wants to do the senate of congress are there to say no you can't... irrespective of what the American people want they will happily block anything that comes from someone who is from a different political party.

The senile old men in congress aren't the ones making decisions. Their backers are. That way the people behind them do not suffer any damages to themselves and can simply replace 'their man' with another face.

Exactly... sometimes it is think of a number and double it... because you have to bribe the Democrat and the Republican Senator or Congressperson, or just find out which one is chairing the committee that decides and bribe them... sorry.... provide them with campaign funds to get their message out there... no corruption here...

Agree with Nero. The problem with the west is their political culture of racism and colonialism and imperialism. It is not a matter of a change of president. Iranians or some of them still have false hopes about USA. But they are minority. But also they are influential in Iran society. There needs to be positive political change or cultural change in Iran too.

Iranians need to target world wide the interests of the most active anti - Iran groups or individuals. There must be a response. As there was a response recently. In Iraq. And Persian Gulf. Support for national liberation movements. Driving away their military bases.

https://youtu.be/c0-d5v-Yp2k

GarryB wrote: I really don't think anyone that replaces him is going to be Iran friendly...

Not Iran friendly, just more sane like Obama was.

Iran is better off looking to the growing powers rather than the declining ones... I really don't think the EU can sort its shit out....

The problem is, for now, and for who who knows how long, the US casts a long shadow over the rest of the world. As soon as Trump reimposed sanctions companies chickened out and the EU has been spineless and impotent, all out of fear of incurring the wrath of the US. I don't think China has been much better. Who is buying Iranian oil in quantity?

nomadski wrote:Agree with Nero. The problem with the west is their political culture of racism and colonialism and imperialism. It is not a matter of a change of president. Iranians or some of them still have false hopes about USA. But they are minority. But also they are influential in Iran society. There needs to be positive political change or cultural change in Iran too.

Iranians need to target  world wide the interests of the most active anti - Iran groups or individuals. There must be a response. As there was a response recently. In Iraq. And Persian Gulf. Support for national liberation movements. Driving away their military bases.

https://youtu.be/c0-d5v-Yp2k

Problem is Iran is almost becoming an obstacle now to national movements; it has made a big investment on supporting certain forces within countries that fight against Israel and the US, but which also ultimately work against the consolidation of their host nations.

In Iraq and Lebanon there were NGO-directed uprisings, but also nationalist ones that united Arabs of different faiths and sects. However Hezbollah and the Iranian-backed Shia militias fought back against them in Lebanon and Iraq respectively, instead of riding the wave and accepting it.

I think that Iran backed groups, are the ones that form the constructive national and progressive democratic movements. And in almost all areas, apart from progressive socialists, the other groups in ME, form the destructive and rejectionist and sectarian and anti - democratic movements. Why this is, is not entirely clear. But it has something to do with old Persians, being a civilised and settled people. With proud history. Did you know that for example, the first socialist in the world was Iranian? Well before political developments in Europe.......Mani was the first socialist. With even more advanced ideas on property reforms than later Islam. A religion of nomadic Arabs that was itself influenced by Zoroaster. The Kaba probably a Zoroasterian temple. And Muslims copy the practices of Zoroasterian priest of praying five times a day!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazdak

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dlm8VxJM-nAC&pg=PT64&lpg=PT64&dq=Mani+first+socialist&source=bl&ots=Oisp-Tw4Bm&sig=ACfU3U16KQbpFz1prjt3aD85Atj_E3bWhg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA0ZjH2_3lAhWSTBUIHewzAAkQ6AEwD3oECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Mani%20first%20socialist&f=false

Iran leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei: imagining of sanctions vanishes in next 2 years is false fantasy
“We have forced the enemy back in various fields, and, by God’s grace, we will decisively force it back on the arena of economic warfare too,” the Leader noted.
Ayatollah Khamenei underlined that the US economic war against the Islamic Republic is not confined to its current president, saying it would be a mistake to think that sanctions would end when Donald Trump leaves office.
https://tn.ai/2143371

The west intrinsicly does not want any other country but its own to succeed and develop.

That is every country.

They totally ignored Russia during the 1990s but as the 2000s moved on and they started to notice them grow and develop they started to pay attention.... not attention to help and support, but to stop and to slow down.

They will do the same for Iran... they just don't want any alternatives to their monopoly to succeed.

They will hate communism more than they hate terrorism... because they know terrorists might kill a few people but communism was threatening to take away the whole gravy train... they couldn't continue to dominate and get offensively rich with communism or any other political system.