US-Iran standoff 2019-

This topic has gone straight into Tom Clancy Land with this ebola nonsense

Even Bolton said things are cooling off so there won't be anything (as expected)

Isos wrote:They were used more than once. Maybe YOU should try google.

Fluid exchange can happen if the fluid is on the skin. Like the guy touches his own mouth and then you touches his arm and finally you touch you mouth.

Why do you think those doctors are wearing military suits to see ebola infested patients ?

You are confusing biological weapons with chemical ones. Virus reproduce themselves and can be transmitted. They generally have an incumbation time to activate inside the victims. Chemical weapons act instantanly on the skin.

Japanese not only tested them but used them in real battles against Chinese and it did lot of damage. And they were not as advanced as today.

Fluid touching skin isn't a transfer and will not give you Ebola, if the fluid gets into your mouth yes then it will, those guys wear those suits for protection period.

they have been used but have had SHIT effect. In this case, you are mixing the two so I am responding. Not really, turns out shooting them was far more effective then any virus based weapon.

You are going straight into Tom Clancy Novel Crap, but let's just drop this.

PapaDragon wrote:
This topic has gone straight into Tom Clancy Land with this ebola nonsense

Even Bolton said things are cooling off so there won't be anything (as expected)

Yes it is nonsense, I don't know why he brought it up and that is correct. there is never going to be any conventional war against Iran unless everyone gets on the same side which isn't happening.

I thought by now people would be used to the process, etc throw shit at the fan and when it starts to blow back in your face you stop the throwing the shit.

It's funny to me how people here keep falling for the same old mind game.

Is mass starvation , conventional war ? Attack against civilians  against Geneva convention ? I must read up on this . How about nuke war ? Not conventional ? For some maybe  it is . Siege war is as old as the walls of Jerusalem. Biological war started with throwing dead carcasses over city wall . They say all is fair in love and war . I like this last one . It is more honest and describes history more accurately . For your information war has started already . But the casualties are so far not on the side responsible for starting this war . You know the rich and wealthy military industrialists in USA .  And they like to keep it that way . No shooting  please ,  we are allergic ! Leave our death factories alone . Don't you dare nuke them . And  my  private  bank in  Bahamas ......And my villa and speed boat ..........

Don't hack the stock exchange , and cripple it , where I gamble with the national wealth.  Don't send a computer virus to my off shore bank account , where I keep my loot . Don't destroy my vast secret bunker in the mountains in USA , where I plan to live out a nuclear war , while the population dies . Don't hit my weapon factory , I make money by starting wars on the streets of USA , between poor blacks and whites  , and kill millions abroad to export American democrazy . Just don't do it . Don't be discriminating . Don't be a accurate . Don't identify me . Don't identify my political agents in senate or congress . Don't target my spy holes in middle east . Don't destroy my terror agents . Despots,  pawns , servants ...........

Iran is difficult to beat because of Russia arms deliveries via Caspian sea. Americans don't dare to sink Russian cargo ships and transport planes. As a result, thousands of Kornet missiles get delivered by ships or air drops to northern Iran near Tehran. Russia is America's rival and would love to bleed America dry in Iran war. Trump is being smart and not falling for it. Trump ain't starting a war in Iran and fall into Russia's trap.

ultimatewarrior wrote:Iran is difficult to beat because of Russia arms deliveries via Caspian sea. Americans don't dare to sink Russian cargo ships and transport planes. As a result, thousands of Kornet missiles get delivered by ships or air drops to northern Iran near Tehran. Russia is America's rival and would love to bleed America dry in Iran war. Trump is being smart and not falling for it. Trump ain't starting a war in Iran and fall into Russia's trap.

Trump is a neocon marionette.

Russia is not interested in bleeding poor dear Uncle Scumbag. It is interested in preventing his scheming to destabilize Russia via support for rabid Saudi-indoctrinated
jihadis. Russia is building a cordon sanitaire rom Lebanon to Afghanistan to keep the Wahabbi vermin at bay. America's plans failed in Syria, big time. America's plans
for Iran will never get off the ground and America's occupation of Afghanistan is already failing. Russia can thank Uncle Scumbag's low IQ for undermining his own
agenda.

@ KVS & ultimatewarrior

Russia has access to warm waters in persian Gulf markets . Iran has access to Europe via Russia soil . They both are under sanctions . They are neighbours . I believe that political leadership in both countries will see the benefits of strategic partnership . Give economic direction . Money is a good servant and a bad master . The oligarchy and Bazari classes , left to their own devices , would oscillate politically . According to immediate market conditions . This would damage strategic interests of Iran / Russia / China . I regret sukhoi  and Rosneft pulling out of Iran and I think Venezuela . We need a political economy . Exclusive banks and trading mechanisms .

The question is not that the yanks will defeat Iran . They did not yet win in Afghanistan . Why ? Well you have to look at their political psychology or psychopatology . Did they build any schools for native Americans , when they handed them infected blankets that killed ninety million ? Ofcourse not . They are empire builders with a difference . Unlike ancient Rome or China , they are racist colonial settlers . They aim to eradicate local populations . And replace with own population . In Iran they have no chance . Infact they have no chance in the world . But they cling to ideology .

The question is that they must be defeated and leave region . And the world . Iran can do this . But any help it gets , will benefit Russia and China too . We must stop looking at America , as a positive . They must retreat behind a wall . Tall enough , so we don't have to see their faces for a millennia.

It's not as simple: Friction growing between Russia and Iran Moscow has more in common with Tel Aviv than it has with Tehran, as an upcoming security summit highlights

Russia needs Turkey & Israel more than Iran. The Iranians must make exceptions to Russia for allowing the use of military bases on its territory- perhaps then their relations will improve. The RF already has good relations with all of its neighbors & it will be a win-win for both. Russia won't be able to affect internal security of Iran even if she gets 2x more/bigger bases there than in Syria. Even their token presence will cool some hot heads in Washington.

Tsavo Lion wrote:It's not as simple: Friction growing between Russia and Iran Moscow has more in common with Tel Aviv than it has with Tehran, as an upcoming security summit highlights

Russia needs Turkey & Israel more than Iran. The Iranians must make exceptions to Russia for allowing the use of military bases on its territory- perhaps then their relations will improve. The RF already has good relations with all of its neighbors & it will be a win-win for both. Russia won't be able to affect internal security of Iran even if she gets 2x more/bigger bases there than in Syria. Even their token presence will cool some hot heads in Washington.

The best evidence against this BS is the last few years. All such forecasts for a falling out between Russia and Iran have never gone anywhere.
This is the latest BS. Russia can expect nothing but a stab in the back from Israel, but it can expect very worthwhile results from helping Iran.

BTW, these sorts of news pieces are rampant. They consist of wishful thinking posing as journalism. The same delusional nonsense is routinely
produced regarding Russia's relations with China as well. Western infantile "journalists" just reflect the heart-ache of their bosses. So much
effort went into turning China into a ramming rod against the USSR and then Russia. But all this effort has been in vain since the Chinese have
too much culture and too much self-respect to be used as condoms by a bunch of western barbarians. NATO is exactly that. A barbarian
pack of rogue states whose leaders believe in voodoo such as the ability to create reality through the force their will.

Russia can have relations with others  . We do not interfere in internal relations of others . But as KVS said , it can gain by relations with Iran  too . No country should be forced to choose between friends . Sacrifice  it's advantages relations with one ,  to gain favour from others . This is game Trump is playing with Europe . And it will backfire.  

Iran does not need Russian bases on it's soil . I have come to think that , these sanctions will be lifted . The evidence suggest that Iran has a nuclear deterrent.  And that is why , it was able to issue ultimatum  and deadline to yanks. Knowing they could not attack . Evidence suggests also that yanks can not attack . And have not done so . Despite Trump earlier warning of : " ...Iran will never get the nukes ..." . Then why wait now ? And only send a token force ,  clearly inadequate for the job ?

Iran can now avoid direct hot war with yank . Bring pressure in region . Shut oil , if it has to . Although  I think that , if it can avoid doing this . Then it avoids risk of others being dragged in , on yank side . Like NATO . But even then , they will have to sit and play  , to pass time . They could not intervene .

I think Iran , should go on offensive and evict yank  forces from region . Declare itself a nuke armed state and Teach them a historic lesson . And return security to region .  Every body then can come and go and live in peace  . Problem solved .

More forces can be sent later. Trump may be bluffing, like he did with NK. Even if Iran had nukes, IMO they won't risk using them against the US Navy in the Gulf & the Arabian Sea, the busiest & crowded SLOC in the world. Besides contaminating its own waters & coasts, it'll be suicidal. Bolton & others like him would love to nuke Iranian underground bases & show the world that the US have no scruples against using tactical nukes on others as well.
Iran shutting of oil export traffic in the Gulf is what the US wants- the prices will sour, American oil companies will benefit, China will suffer, & it'll give the US a good pretext for retaliation.
Also, the US can use various groups, terrorists, mercenaries, SOF in & around Iran to destabilize it & provoke retaliation; then they'll have the casus belli to attack Iran directly.

What's wrong with sending forces now ? They can not go to war ! Oil will not close for nations that break blockade . Those that keep blockade , will have no oil . The increase in oil prices is small comfort for the yank . While their close allies,  complain and their economy is made to scream! Iran will retaliate against US SOIL .  So yank will not go to war directly with Iran . As far as supporting terror groups against Iran , well they are already doing this . Do you see them winning ? I think Iran should now double efforts   together with Russia , to expell these English disease from the middle east .

And before you say , " ......their sattelite carrier " failed " , I must say that I disagree with this failour . I disagree with this not showing a mushroom cloud on TV , I disagree with not taking credit for the good work that people do .

We are dealing with a deeply ingrained political disease of colonialism . An entire society . Not an individual that can learn and reform . By setting good examples . How many times did the American fleet pass China coastline ? But some people attribute problems in US to an administration or president or advisers . They want to wait and see a change . A change will come . But if it took four hundred years to build this culture . Then it will take four hundred years to abolish it . That is why the punishment must be clear and long lasting . That is why the rockets must work.........

It'll get worse before it'll get better. Iran has lots of oil, is a lot smaller than nuclear armed Russia & is easier to break up before it becomes another North Korea. The US is a declining empire ("sole superpower") & is trying to salvage anything it can on the World stage lest Russia & China divide the spoils & fill in the vacuum.
Hence the Cold War II with both of them.

@Tsavo lion

Agree that they will get worse . But more so for yanks . With respect to the point you made about Iran being easy to break up . I could not disagree more . This is a result of recent yank experience in military  adventure in failing states . All with history of less than eighty years . Colonial paper projects .

Iran had been broken up several times , in it's long history of many thousand years . Every time , these parts came together and coalesced.  What you see now , is the coming together of these parts . Iran has strategic depth .

I do not see the yanks as being able to stage cold war II .  Their social and economic situation is not as competitive as China . The world is moving to multi - polar situation . The ideology of colonialism is further aggrevating their demise . Seven hundred military bases , does not win them contracts . Or influence .

With respect to the point you made about Iran being easy to break up . I could not disagree more.

It's not easy compared to Iraq, Libya & Syria, but easier than Russia & China that have nukes, IC/SLBMs & blue water navies. All that's needed is to keep its internal fires smoldering & sanctions in place. NK has the backing of China & Russia & succeeded against US pressure; Pakistan won't give Iran any useful help with nukes as not to ruin its relations with Turkey with whom Iran has a common border.
The EU, France, India & Japan want to deal with Iran for mutual benefit, but the US disregards their interests, as they always do when it suits them.

USA is the new sick man. I don't think they impose any serious threat, not even in regional level.
If you have a USA visa these days, it's only about grabbing as much money as you can and leave the ship that sinks.
Artificial entities that they don't have history always collapse like this, big mouth but nobody is willing to do personal sacrifices.
Effectively already started civil war, hispanics vs english+jews vs germanics vs east asians vs orthodox.

As far as i can see, Iran has 3 options.

Build the bomb, which will be a very risky endeavor.
Build themselves up, which will take time.
Let the Russians have a Naval and Airbase in Iran.

For me, the choice is obvious, do the latter first and gain time to do any of the former 2.

Once done you can ask the Russians to leave and you'll also get modern Air and Naval facilities.

AlfaT8 wrote:Let the Russians have a Naval and Airbase in Iran.

For me, the choice is obvious, do the latter first and gain time to do any of the former 2.

But would establishment of Russian bases in Iran necessarily mean Russian help in repelling an attack? For some time, Russia has had bases in Syria but Israel strikes repeatedly with near impunity.

@ Tsavo lion

A month ago when Trump state visit was announced  . After his outburst " ..destruction of Iran and suffering for Iranian people ..." ,  I knew that this visit to UK was to cement ties and obtain a political fig leaf , or an alliance to economically attack  Iran  . Like an English / French D - day against Germany !

But it looks like, all he got was photo opportunity  . And no support for joining  an economic campaign against Iran . I guess he will get  the same response from the French . It looks like , far from Iran being isolated , it is Trump that is isolated . And as I have discussed , he " knows " , Iran has " no nukes " , and that is why he can not go to war with Iran . I believe he was told about , " ...Iran having no nukes ..." , soon after he took office !

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-48520406

And again , Iran  said that they will export as much oil as they want . They do not make idle talk . So under what circumstances , can this statement be true ? Those that can reason , know well . Iran today gave ultimatum to Saudi to stop economic war against Iran , or be ready for a shocking response .

Now the Yanks don't know what to do ! The CIA pompeo retracted all twelve demands . No pre conditions . And wants to talk ! I guess someone finally pushed the big red bullshit button for him . Now that they admit they have no idea what to do , they have to wait for Iranians telling them what to do .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sputniknews.com/amp/middleeast/201906041075623472-iran-saudi-shocking-decision-warning/

nomadski wrote:@ Tsavo lion

A month ago when Trump state visit was announced  . After his outburst " ..destruction of Iran and suffering for Iranian people ..." ,  I knew that this visit to UK was to cement ties and obtain a political fig leaf , or an alliance to economically attack  Iran  . Like an English / French D - day against Germany !

But it looks like, all he got was photo opportunity  . And no support for joining military campaign against Iran . I guess he will get  the same response from the French . It looks like , far from Iran being isolated , it is Trump that is isolated . And as I have discussed , he " knows " , Iran has " no nukes " , and that is why he can not go to war with Iran .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-48520406

And again , Iean said that they will export as much oil as they want . They do not make idle talk . So under what circumstances , can this statement be true ? Those that can reason , know well . Iran today gave ultimatum to Saudi to stop economic war against Iran , or be ready for a shocking response .

The British and the French may be a**holes but there are more people with higher IQs compared to the USA in authority. They know
that no war on Iran is going to succeed. So there is no point starting one. There was a chance that Syria could be regime changed
via jihadis, but Russia f*cked up those plans on an epic scale. The "western allies" can't even organize a jihadi "rebellion" in Iran.
Iran is much more powerful than Syria and Russia is sending out all the signals about not crossing the red line.

Also, Iran is not surrounded and Russia can use the Caspian to deliver air and sea support. Syria is surrounded by Turkey, US-occupied Iraq and pro-US and pro-Israel Jordan and of course Israel itself. Iran is buffered by water to the west and south and nobody will
attack it from the North, nor for that matter from Afghanistan and Pakistan. Trying to take on Iran from some carriers is absurd. Iran
will sink them. The problem is that Uncle Scumbag things that the 1999 gang rape of Serbia is some sort of relevant military scenario
for Iran. This is nothing but demented delusion.

@ KVS

Agree . Trump says continuously, he wants to see what happens . Like a man with eyes and no brain ! I once asked a friend for a practice boxing match . Got a bloody nose !

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/06/02/world/middleeast/us-iran-mike-pompeo.amp.

Why Trump now wants talks with Iran
As I been saying, the US need to keep the oil prices low. China can absorb the higher prices better than US & Japan.

Why would Iran want to talk to the US for?

What would be the point... anything they sign or agree on is worthless... the US clearly cannot be trusted...

They want things both ways... they want Iran not developing nuclear weapons and they also want to sanction Iran to keep it poor and weak.

Iran signed an agreement not to develop nuclear weapons in return for normal trade to allow it to grow and develop like a normal country, but the US was not happy with that... they want them poor and weak and without nuclear weapons.

Iran is not stupid... they know their choices are very limited... they can keep the agreement with the EU and Russia and China in the hopes of getting enough trade to grow and develop anyway or they can simply tear up the agreement and develop nuclear weapons and then deal with the US and Israel and Saudi Arabia on much better terms for them.

If the EU companies wont invest in Iran because they fear US sanctions then Iran might as well no bother with an agreement they are following but the EU and US is not... whether the agreement is in effect or not they have reasonable trade relations with Russia and China anyway so ripping it up means very little will get worse for them and it enables them to achieve negotiating parity and balance in the talks and relations.

Agree . But Iranians must get their act together and get tactics and strategy right . Threatening  shock one moment and wanting to sign  non- aggression  pact are contradictory . I heard and welcomed Saudi getting nuke licence . Now Iran has even more reason to get nuke weapon . Now if Saudi want to do economic war then they must be ready to do this at the cost of being turned  into nuclear Ash ! Somehow then I think the world will come to it's senses .

Even w/o the Saudis, Pakistan already has nukes & Turkey is getting a Russian built NPP, which later will help her getting nukes: https://www.rt.com/business/449575-putin-akkuyu-plant-turkey/

Just like among ordinary people, relying on others for defense doesn't work when u most need it. Paraphrasing the famous American saying "God created men, Colt made them equal", it can be said that history created states, A. Einstein, Kurchatov & Sakharov made them equal.