Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #3

kvs wrote:The post by Scorpius implies that a larger version will be tested in 2030.  So they are probably going to save money by
not developing a smaller test variant.    I do not get any useful information about what will be built from any of the sources
at present.

https://zakupki.gov.ru/epz/contract/contractCard/document-info.html?reestrNumber=4770238802720000110

File named: 359-0339А-20-14... № 47702388027200001100004

The information is publicly available and there is a technical task.

lancelot wrote: The Soviet Union had three design bureaus (Korolev, Chelomei, Yangel) competing for space launchers in the 1960s which was one of the causes of the failure of the manned Moon program to begin with. None of them used common infrastructure or engines even.

You can observe the performance of soviets in space and draw different conclusions from it.
some conclusions more correct than others. so this said . i disagree with your views.
It was soviet union 3 design centers ,was allowed soviet union to completely lead in space for the entire cold war era and space race race and  not only lead but completely dominate and you will
see why.

Soviet union achievements in space was thanks to having those 3 teams in competition with each other.. This heavy investment allowed the soviet to do several big things at same time ,saving decades of time if for example they only had 1 team.

let see first what the soviet union space program most important things achieved.

1)first satellite in space,
2)first man in space
3)first space station and space walk
4)First country to send a human made object to the moon ,a probe in their luna program.
5)first country to land in mars with a probe in their mars program.
6)first nation to send a probe to venus in their veneral program.
all this things was happening in the soviet union space program from 60's to 80s.

the soviet union was clearly leading in space.

what americans did?
they arrived  SECOND place in all this things soviet did ,but never landed in venus
and faked the manned moon landing with a disney studio movie and declared victory.

and on top of that the soviet union also produced a rover that was successful in the moon and travel for years in the moon ,and their own space shuttle , after americans produced theirs. and was successful their first flight. and also the soviets designed their own manned moon rocket.. and tested it.. (something russia have not done yet more than 40 years later)

So basically soviet union was leading in space.. and what russia federation space program is doing under putin is not even 1/10 of what soviet space program was doing.. and had their soviet  leaders ,did not distracted in afghanistan so much ,with a full scale army ,and did not spend so much building submarines and nuclear weapons , their economy will have never collapsed and so neither the soviet union.

having 3 or more teams is more expensive , but who said success and world leadership in space
can be achieved for free? you need to spend on it ,and the enormous investment of soviet unionin space is something that still today modern russia benefit from it.. and is sad to think that in 20 years of putin in power ,they have produced nothing new of what the soviets already build. with the only
exception of this new angara rocket.. that for the only reason was made ,was to develop a soyuz like rocket with more environmental friendly engines and a bit more flexible for sending heavier cargo in space. Russia federation today ,have never build a space shuttle and not even a heavy cargo rocket energia either ,ideal for deploying weapons and space stations in space. and neither developed a moon rocket for manned missions.. so basically not only russia is doing much less in space than nasa.. but also far behind the soviet union space program . that was the only true leaders in space ,
if you discount their apollo manned program ,that faked their moon manned landings, and that is likely faking their mars mission too , since the probabilities they also building fakes is high too ,since they cheated in the moon too.

The most advanced and ambitious space rocket ever build ?

Soviet N1 moon rocket




And contrary to the trolls ,the project was not a failure.. it had a lot of potential. what happens is that you never will get a rocket so powerful right on first try .. there was no hollywood to help russia do it right on first try..     it was a real space program .it flew for half a minute in the third try or so ,
and blew up after..,and the problem they had was their materials of the engines could not survive for very long the intense heats.  so they wanted to continue and improving ,perfecting the design ,thats how soviet reach space first.. by experimenting first..and learning from any failure and their moon rocket was not an exception.  Russia was achieving progress with every new try , but the only thing that killed the project was the lack of funding ,based on mismanagement/the mistakes of soviet did in managing their economy ,with their nuclear race , building so many nukes and so many submarines and warships ,while fighting in so many wars ,weakened soviet union ability to continue funding their most important things in their space program. Soviet union even deployed a laser cannon weapon in space to shutdown NATO nuclear missiles in space ,but that failed to reach the position they wanted. like taken from a science fiction movie  


Lets make Russia great again.. but that will never happen with the outdated vision of
the government that they have today .

look at this amazing beauty..
This are the investments that really matter for Russia and what can melt
cold relations with the west and attract nations towards russia orbit. the world love
nations that leads in future and in space and russia could do both with the right investment.



Those were the times ,soviet union was king in space. Their space shuttle will not have exploded
because they had a far better ,more safer ,more stable and advanced engines than nasa. that could be controlled and regulated its power at any moment ,so more safer, on top soviet union had superior thermal resistant materials ,than NASA.. space shuttles, so those reentry burning accidents will have never happened to Soviet union space shuttle. Soviets and Russia never lost ever a space rocket due to reentry thermal damage ,like NASA.

Putin today is doing the extreme opposite ,too cautious , and leaving space as a ,if there is extra money and conditions and weather perfect ,then we will fund it. second or third priority , and giving
priority to transforming russia into a gas station monopoly of the world ,investing more in pipelines and being body guard of the third world nations ,that russia end giving their weapons for free and had to defend for free and in bullshit olympics aveneus for meaningless symbolical contest that americans so easily can sanction and ban russia from hosting international events there with
any rumor or claim of cheating made up by them.


Russia federation need to go back to the 3 design teams , to their very ambitious space program.
this nuclear engine plans is a step in the right direction ,but it will be totally useless if they want a decade or more for building it. they need to speed up in space ,and start leading there ,because
there is no major benefit in arriving second or third. Russia needs to arrive first in the moon and mars with humans.. and need to be first country in the world with space tourism program around earth orbit and around the moon orbit and back . Such level of leadership will attract investments from all over the world ,the very rich billionaires will paid for such travels and wait long lines to go on it.. most billionaires will want to at least one in their lives to see earth and the moon from space and orbit around it.. and this is what will help russia to attract world wide investments and world wide scientific and engineering talent to work and study in russia. and this is what will put an end of US and europe attempts to isolate russia economy and instead seek closer cooperation. It is soft power ,in the things that most impress society where russia needs to invest . in the things that opens the door for a new future. Every money russia invested in space is money than return back multiplied
because of the huge promotion that this things create , and a russia ambitious space program..as the soviet had.. will fill the schools and universities of people ,who will be motivated to study science and engineering ,instead of wasting their lives in competitive sports that only leads to lifetime injuries and a society of morons with very low emotional intelligence and very low intellectual too.  

That said.. Russia will have been completely developed in a totally different way. more similar to china than to russia today. that is transform russia economy from banana /gas station economy
to a very high end high tech ,internet and space focused economy. But will have coordinated with
china to not become a direct competition to them ,but instead a major complement to china development. So if china build smart phones for example , russia can sell them advances processors and advance software for those phones. and build a new space station ,in collaboration with BRICS nations .  

I support the return of soviet era level space ambitious program , with space shuttles ,laser cannons in space and moon ,venus and mars. i will actually try to go to saturn orbit and jupiter orbit too and their moons with many probes, and collect true images ,since you never know what is true or not
from NASA after  their massive fraud in the moon. Russia latest project ,their nuclear engine and cargo spaceship looks very promising ,but will not be of much help ,if they do it a decade later than the competition.

Soyuz-2.1b with British communications satellites launched from Vostochny cosmodrome
https://en.topwar.ru/178298-sojuz-21b-s-britanskimi-sputnikami-svjazi-startoval-s-kosmodroma-vostochnyj.html

Vann7 wrote:

lancelot wrote: The Soviet Union had three design bureaus (Korolev, Chelomei, Yangel) competing for space launchers in the 1960s which was one of the causes of the failure of the manned Moon program to begin with. None of them used common infrastructure or engines even.

You can observe the performance of soviets in space and draw different conclusions from it.
some conclusions more correct than others. so this said . i disagree with your views.
It was soviet union 3 design centers ,was allowed soviet union to completely lead in space for the entire cold war era and space race race and  not only lead but completely dominate and you will
see why.

Soviet union achievements in space was thanks to having those 3 teams in competition with each other.. This heavy investment allowed the soviet to do several big things at same time ,saving decades of time if for example they only had 1 team.

let see first what the soviet union space program most important things achieved.

1)first satellite in space,
2)first man in space
3)first space station and space walk
4)First country to send a human made object to the moon ,a probe in their luna program.
5)first country to land in mars with a probe in their mars program.
6)first nation to send a probe to venus in their veneral program.
all this things was happening in the soviet union space program from 60's to 80s.

the soviet union was clearly leading in space.

what americans did?
they arrived  SECOND place in all this things soviet did ,but never landed in venus
and faked the manned moon landing with a disney studio movie and declared victory.

and on top of that the soviet union also produced a rover that was successful in the moon and travel for years in the moon ,and their own space shuttle , after americans produced theirs. and was successful their first flight. and also the soviets designed their own manned moon rocket.. and tested it.. (something russia have not done yet more than 40 years later)

So basically soviet union was leading in space.. and what russia federation space program is doing under putin is not even 1/10 of what soviet space program was doing.. and had their soviet  leaders ,did not distracted in afghanistan so much ,with a full scale army ,and did not spend so much building submarines and nuclear weapons , their economy will have never collapsed and so neither the soviet union.

having 3 or more teams is more expensive , but who said success and world leadership in space
can be achieved for free? you need to spend on it ,and the enormous investment of soviet unionin space is something that still today modern russia benefit from it.. and is sad to think that in 20 years of putin in power ,they have produced nothing new of what the soviets already build. with the only
exception of this new angara rocket.. that for the only reason was made ,was to develop a soyuz like rocket with more environmental friendly engines and a bit more flexible for sending heavier cargo in space. Russia federation today ,have never build a space shuttle and not even a heavy cargo rocket energia either ,ideal for deploying weapons and space stations in space. and neither developed a moon rocket for manned missions.. so basically not only russia is doing much less in space than nasa.. but also far behind the soviet union space program . that was the only true leaders in space ,
if you discount their apollo manned program ,that faked their moon manned landings, and that is likely faking their mars mission too , since the probabilities they also building fakes is high too ,since they cheated in the moon too.

The most advanced and ambitious space rocket ever build ?

Soviet N1 moon rocket




And contrary to the trolls ,the project was not a failure.. it had a lot of potential. what happens is that you never will get a rocket so powerful right on first try .. there was no hollywood to help russia do it right on first try..     it was a real space program .it flew for half a minute in the third try or so ,
and blew up after..,and the problem they had was their materials of the engines could not survive for very long the intense heats.  so they wanted to continue and improving ,perfecting the design ,thats how soviet reach space first.. by experimenting first..and learning from any failure and their moon rocket was not an exception.  Russia was achieving progress with every new try , but the only thing that killed the project was the lack of funding ,based on mismanagement/the mistakes of soviet did in managing their economy ,with their nuclear race , building so many nukes and so many submarines and warships ,while fighting in so many wars ,weakened soviet union ability to continue funding their most important things in their space program. Soviet union even deployed a laser cannon weapon in space to shutdown NATO nuclear missiles in space ,but that failed to reach the position they wanted. like taken from a science fiction movie  


Lets make Russia great again.. but that will never happen with the outdated vision of
the government that they have today .

look at this amazing beauty..
This are the investments that really matter for Russia and what can melt
cold relations with the west and attract nations towards russia orbit. the world love
nations that leads in future and in space and russia could do both with the right investment.



Those were the times ,soviet union was king in space. Their space shuttle will not have exploded
because they had a far better ,more safer ,more stable and advanced engines than nasa. that could be controlled and regulated its power at any moment ,so more safer, on top soviet union had superior thermal resistant materials ,than NASA.. space shuttles, so those reentry burning accidents will have never happened to Soviet union space shuttle. Soviets and Russia never lost ever a space rocket due to reentry thermal damage ,like NASA.

Putin today is doing the extreme opposite ,too cautious , and leaving space as a ,if there is extra money and conditions and weather perfect ,then we will fund it. second or third priority , and giving
priority to transforming russia into a gas station monopoly of the world ,investing more in pipelines and being body guard of the third world nations ,that russia end giving their weapons for free and had to defend for free and in bullshit olympics aveneus for meaningless symbolical contest that americans so easily can sanction and ban russia from hosting international events there with
any rumor or claim of cheating made up by them.


Russia federation need to go back to the 3 design teams , to their very ambitious space program.
this nuclear engine plans is a step in the right direction ,but it will be totally useless if they want a decade or more for building it. they need to speed up in space ,and start leading there ,because
there is no major benefit in arriving second or third. Russia needs to arrive first in the moon and mars with humans.. and need to be first country in the world with space tourism program around earth orbit and around the moon orbit and back . Such level of leadership will attract investments from all over the world ,the very rich billionaires will paid for such travels and wait long lines to go on it.. most billionaires will want to at least one in their lives to see earth and the moon from space and orbit around it.. and this is what will help russia to attract world wide investments and world wide scientific and engineering talent to work and study in russia. and this is what will put an end of US and europe attempts to isolate russia economy and instead seek closer cooperation. It is soft power ,in the things that most impress society where russia needs to invest . in the things that opens the door for a new future. Every money russia invested in space is money than return back multiplied
because of the huge promotion that this things create , and a russia ambitious space program..as the soviet had.. will fill the schools and universities of people ,who will be motivated to study science and engineering ,instead of wasting their lives in competitive sports that only leads to lifetime injuries and a society of morons with very low emotional intelligence and very low intellectual too.  

That said.. Russia will have been completely developed in a totally different way. more similar to china than to russia today. that is transform russia economy from banana /gas station economy
to a very high end high tech ,internet and space focused economy. But will have coordinated with
china to not become a direct competition to them ,but instead a major complement to china development. So if china build smart phones for example , russia can sell them advances processors and advance software for those phones. and build a new space station ,in collaboration with BRICS nations .  

I support the return of soviet era level space ambitious program , with space shuttles ,laser cannons in space and moon ,venus and mars. i will actually try to go to saturn orbit and jupiter orbit too and their moons with many probes, and collect true images ,since you never know what is true or not
from NASA after  their massive fraud in the moon. Russia latest project ,their nuclear engine and cargo spaceship looks very promising ,but will not be of much help ,if they do it a decade later than the competition.

Putin is trying in his mind to avoid the exact situation you describe - the collapse of the Russian state the way the USSR collapsed. Part of his logic (faulty you can argue) is the amount of resources he can spend on things like space. People in Russia do care about their consumer economy and about their comfort. The younger generation is much more demanding than older generations and they don't have the residual Soviet fear built in from Stalin's days to obey. It took Gorbachev to legitimize protests. The day I saw tents pitched out all over Red Square in 1987 was the the day I knew it was over for the USSR. They are trying to develop high tech commercial products but they are stymied at every turn by the West - blocked in access, blocked in technology, blocked in funding. China is a much more formidable opponent in this area and the West feels confident enough to attack them economically despite the huge monetary interests companies and individuals from the US and EU have in China.

Vann7 wrote:...what americans did?
they arrived SECOND place in all this things soviet did ,but never landed in venus
and faked the manned moon landing with a disney studio movie...

They faked it so well that every single scientist in Russia agrees that USA definitely landed on the moon, dumb Russian retards, eh?

Only moron in Russia who actually believes that moon landings were faked is the moron extraordinare Rogozin the Trampoline Man

Vann7 wrote:The most advanced and ambitious space rocket ever build ?

Soviet N1 moon rocket ...

Oh yeah, it had ambition pouring out of it

@PapaDragon
The most advanced and ambitious space rocket ever build ?

The chief of Russia space program told it was fake on the face of journalist and putin
close aid officer also told the same thing ,and Putin remained silent about it when he had the
opportunity to contradict them. actually none of those scientist you speak opposed their claims.

So you are wrong. the moon landing was a hoax , and there is mountain of evidence of it.
NASA not even deny their original images of the moon was "lost" and their moon rocks too.

The claim that NASA landed in the moon with humans , should be compared with the claims  
that Joes Biden won the presidential elections vs Trump in 2020 ,or that NATO are fighting terrorist in syria .. Events that everyone knows , are massive fraud ,that US is lying to the world and committed fraud on their own people noses and got away with it even when people in the government ,including their own President exposed it.  proving without a doubt that there
is a shadow government in US ,that will lie and cheat and deceive whenever they want.

What those  things have in common? that all of them , that all american big corporate media
deny  it,that there was any fraud and that many people government officials
have spoken and exposed the fraud and nobody was arrested or held accounted for
those fraudulent events.

all those soviet era scientist who defend apollo program receive funding from nasa to keep their mouth shut..

and about soviet moon N1 rocket explosion..

take a look at all spaceX failures.



and even if you believe in saturn rocket success in the moon (fake story).
look at the failures of saturn rocket..



So did you think NASA and SpaceX will have ever reach space if they gave up after the second or third failure?  

The soviet n1 rocket flew for half a minute ,showing clear progress in their modifications , and they only cancelled it for lack of funds but the design was very promising.

So only Ignorant like you will believe that a completely new rocket ,new design will work
in the first few hand pocket tries.. To build a space rocket  is a trial and error and correcting thing ,how you travel to space.  NASA and Soviet union had to do many trial and errors FIRST .before
building their space program . it doesn't happen on the first few tries.

So this is why Russia need to start from NOW , developing all those space rockets for medium
and long term exploration ,for moon and mars and beyond. Because that way ,they will figure out
earlier and not later ,how to do it right. but if roscosmos plans to wait 10 years ,before starting
develop their rockets to manned missions for moon and mars and beyond , then they will have to start from zero ,when americans already experimented many failures and corrected them , as is the case of Space X and  amazon jeff besos space program too.. other wise Russia will arrive in 3rd place
but also risk of completely collapsing their industry if russian scientist move to  other countries
that takes more seriously space and offer them a job.


Starship explosion

[/quote]

So soviets were on right track to conquer the moon with humans  50 years ago , they only had to continue improving their design ,they had the rocket power to go to the moon , they only had to
improve the resistance of their materials and or modify their organization of their engines . but they will have gotten it , at the first dozen of tries or less. and the experience learned will have done
far more easier their next generation space programs.

In more space news...


Cosmonauts to intensify search for leak on ISS amid concerns over DEPLETING oxygen
reserves




https://www.rt.com/russia/510210-iss-leak-oxygen-rogozin/


I was been warning in this forum for a long time , the west is at war with Russia and
putin is not taking seriously this war , he is behaving like "business as usual " when US
try to collapse Russia economy and even provide help to terrorist to attack russian bases
in syria many dozens of times. Rogozin have exposed this leaks as sabotage by americans.
and they even found evidence of it ,with drilled holes in their module ,that had no other purpose
than to provoke an oxygen leak , in russian module.


That said.. if putin is not removed from power , to take this war they are facing ,
not only the lives of their soldiers will be at risk in those bases in middle east..
but also their cosmonauts in space.

mark my words..
all this oxygen leaks are sabotage attacks (many of them) by those freedom loving astronauts
in the ISS who are loyal to their criminal system and they will not stop until they get killed
in space .To humilliate Putin and Russia even more.  So is a bad idea ,is dangerous
for their cosmonaut lives that Putin continue cooperating in space with NASA ,when there is war going on against them.  and this war looks to accelerate with the transition of power to BIDEN after they stole trump elections . Right now congress is declaring russia enemy . just think about that for a second .what they mean with that declaring "Russia is on our enemy list and that there should be a response to russia beyond sanctions" told marco rubio today, accusing russia of "hacking their country". Trump denied it. So this is a declaration of war without using those exact words. So Russia government can only expect hostilities to dramatically increase 10x to 100x fold against russia in the last month of trump in power ,to engineer a new crisis ,when trump is still the president on his last month. that way only trump will be blamed for any limited war that start between US and Russia in space or anywhere else.

so nobody should be surprised if they murder a cosmonaut in space and make it look it was an " accident",the lives of russian cosmonauts is without a doubt at risk.. NASA can load on the ISS though spacex anything they want ,weapons, viruses ,bombs ,remote control kamikazi drones ,to make it look a small fragment of rock hit the russian module and without russia cosmonauts being aware of it. and Putin politeness and soft speaking  behavior will not stop the west hostilities.  Russia needs to develop russia taking into account they facing a real war and the killing of their military and their cosmonauts is on the table. if Trump quit presidency and give up , probably the best think he can do is move to Russia to live and expose his enemies , who stole his elections ,by joining russian media RT and or creating televison network in russia. To expose all the corruption
going on in america. he could be given the US embassy.. just like US gave the embassy of venezuela to guaido.. and this will allow Russia to influence at least 50% of the population of US ,and even help american citizens to make better choices for a better government ,if they are told exactly the truth
about US politics and who are against the interest of american citizens. who are they?
when trump told..

Vann7 wrote:The chief of Russia space program told it was fake on the face of journalist and putin...

Translation: certified imbecile retard with flawless track record in degenerate cretinism said something epically stupid yet again in front of his boss

His boss didn't want to be involved in retarded conversation and ignored the whole pathetic thing

Super-retard from the internet however swallowed the bullshit whole and continued to post stupid shit on irelevant forum

There...

Oh yeah, it had ambition pouring out of it

But Musk'ovites would call that a success wouldn't they?  

The track record of the west in terms of telling the truth is poor... I don't blame anyone for not believing them and they have no one else to blame but themselves.

Truth Justice the American way.

That is not three different things... it is supposed to be a description of what the American way should be... Truth and Justice.

These days it is more like the options of a slimy American politician... you can go with truth and justice or go with the new American way of lies and revenge.

There are obviously consequences for this... did they think nothing would happen when they lie about all sorts of things and are shocked and upset when people don't believe them?

The ISS wont be around for a huge amount of time... I believe it was only supposed to remain operational for less than another 5-6 years now so sabotage is not really something to worry about too much for Russia... they have solutions to loss of oxygen and other problems... up to and including simply leaving.

I would expect they are already planning a new space station of their own that wont include political and ideological enemies as "partners".

They could build something more suitable for assembling rockets for longer distance trips like the moon, mars, venus, or perhaps jupiter and saturn.... manned and unmanned of course...

Imagine a nuclear powered rocket going to one of saturns moons that could have a much closer look at things... with nuclear propulsion it will have more power for more useful sensors and will get there much faster too.

Vann7 wrote:...
some conclusions more correct than others. so this said . i disagree with your views.
It was soviet union 3 design centers ,was allowed soviet union to completely lead in space for the entire cold war era and space race race and  not only lead but completely dominate and you will
see why.

Soviet union achievements in space was thanks to having those 3 teams in competition with each other.. This heavy investment allowed the soviet to do several big things at same time ,saving decades of time if for example they only had 1 team.

let see first what the soviet union space program most important things achieved.

1)first satellite in space,
2)first man in space
3)first space station and space walk
4)First country to send a human made object to the moon ,a probe in their luna program.
5)first country to land in mars with a probe in their mars program.
6)first nation to send a probe to venus in their veneral program.
all this things was happening in the soviet union space program from 60's to 80s.

the soviet union was clearly leading in space.

All of those were done with two rockets. R-7 by Korolev and Proton by Chelomei. Of course had Korolev gotten the funding he asked for instead of it going to the guy who employed Nikita Khrushchev's son, then perhaps the Soviet Union would have had a rocket with Proton's capacity but without the toxic fuel. Like, what, how many decades before Angara?

Korolev was also against the use of hypergolic fuel. He wanted the Soviet Union to use solid rockets for delivering nuclear weapons. In the end who was right?
RT-1 rocket designed in Soviet Union with tiny research budget by apprentices of Korolev while gargantuan funds were sent to hypergolic rockets.
Soviet Union as a result had a structural delay for decades on solid rocket technology vs USA, a technology that arguably the Soviets had superiority initially in WW2, but lost. Only today in modern Russia did they solve that gap.

Vann7 wrote:...
what americans did?
they arrived  SECOND place in all this things soviet did ,but never landed in venus
and faked the manned moon landing with a disney studio movie and declared victory.

That's what my grandmother used to say. That it was fake. Seriously.
But you know what, it is quite simple to verify they went there. They left a reflecting device on the Moon which was used for an experiment to determine the distance between the Earth and the Moon.
You can aim there and check if it reflects like it was supposed to.
Plus they left a lot of things on the Moon on the Apollo missions which are easy to verify from lunar orbit.
Notice how not even the Chinese who have been there recently claim it was a hoax. Neither did Soviet scientists back then .

Vann7 wrote:
The most advanced and ambitious space rocket ever build ?

Soviet N1 moon rocket

...
And contrary to the trolls ,the project was not a failure.. it had a lot of potential. what happens is that you never will get a rocket so powerful right on first try .. there was no hollywood to help russia do it right on first try..     it was a real space program .it flew for half a minute in the third try or so ,
and blew up after..,and the problem they had was their materials of the engines could not survive for very long the intense heats.  so they wanted to continue and improving ,perfecting the design ,thats how soviet reach space first.. by experimenting first..and learning from any failure and their moon rocket was not an exception.  Russia was achieving progress with every new try , but the only thing that killed the project was the lack of funding ,based on mismanagement/the mistakes of soviet did in managing their economy ,with their nuclear race , building so many nukes and so many submarines and warships ,while fighting in so many wars ,weakened soviet union ability to continue funding their most important things in their space program.
...

Maybe after a hundred launches and a tremendous waste of money. A lot of people forget how notoriously unreliable R-7 and Proton were back when they started using them. But N1 was just too much.
The politicians not giving the funding to test the first stage of the rocket on the ground was what killed this project. Lack of testing. They did a whole batch of engines. Then tested one engine in each lot. If it passed whole batch was considered to be good. This is what killed the program. Lack of testing.

They left a reflecting device on the Moon which was used for an experiment to determine the distance between the Earth and the Moon.
You can aim there and check if it reflects like it was supposed to.
Plus they left a lot of things on the Moon on the Apollo missions which are easy to verify from lunar orbit.

Yeah ,that's the most told argument , that is wrong by the way ,of people that believe on
NASA claims.. and the other major mention argument is that if NASA faked the moon ,then
why no one exposed them ? look at what i told of US war on syria and alliance with alqaeda and isis ,
on the entire world nose and noone arrested and nobody fired from their jobs, even when american senators like Richard black and tulsi gabbard that confirmed this and lawmakers from both parties who went to Syria denounced it..  Same with 2020 elections , that democrats  did a colossal fraud ,
from rigged voting machines to mail in balots.. even more than 40 states of the union ,questioned
the elections ,that was a fraud in georgia and all those swing states.. and what vast majority of those in power did ? nothing. The entire federal government of united states ,left alone Trump ,including
the supreme court ,in the most obvious criminal fraud in elections ever ,in a long time. a fraud with
people arrested that confessed rigging thousands of votes in those states.

and just like in the moon.. the american media and majority of the elites in power ,from military ,to congress ,democrats ,and republicans ,intel agencies ,FBI all of them sided with the fraud ,a major treason to the nation maximum and most important federal event ,presidential elections ,and stole the election in daylight to Trump . Many spoke of the fraud but those who have control of most federal agencies remaining silent and pretended that nothing happened ,and that the elections were
fair.. more important .. The european union knows ,the elections were stolen to trump , and nobody
complained , and accepted this election fraud in america.

So is the same thing.. there is a mafia , in power in US ,and they are all ,its majority in the pockets of big interest $$ , so they will cheat ,steal and lie all the time ,whenever they need it. so someone like Obama for example could have murdered his own wife and daughters in front of cameras in open daylight and all american media ,will have covered . will have said it was someone who looks like obama , or that it was a russian manipulated video.. etc etc .

That  said you can't use the reflectors trick.. because Russia also have reflectors in the moon..
and reflectors in venus , that planet close to the sun and Russia never claimed to land with
humans in the moon or venus ? did they?  

Russia as a matter of fact could deploy a refrigerator in the moon and that does not means
there are kitchens in the moon.

So it was a hoax.. and several close aides of putin have strongly hinted that...

Russia wants to check truth of 1969 US moon landing
https://www.dw.com/en/russia-wants-to-check-truth-of-1969-us-moon-landing/a-46441264

what is interesting about this "we will verify IF the did it"
is that no one in the russian government questioned him for doubts of NASA moon story.
didn't that was supposed to be a closed chapter already?

Simply Russia have said it ,is was fake ,and they need to hurry up and travel to the moon
before they manage do it for real ,with the super slow progress that russia is moving its
space program. not because of the lack of money ,but because of not placing russia its
space program as top priority ..which is the most influential business that Russia have to
project soft power , to influence nations towards russian orbit ,towards cooperation. to influence
europe away from NATO and help russia security enormously ,by becoming a leader in space.

this is what Russia needs to influence the world ,away of the old  unilateral western world order and instead promote sovereignty and multi lateral world order and independence of nations.

The flight of Gagarin, First in space


from youtube a random post.. showing how russia can influence the world with space
and is not truly taking advantage of this today ,by their very limited funding of space .

@SA4m
2 years ago
I'm an English teacher from Palestine, and I just showed this movie to my 4th grade students, they loved it so much that most of them wants to astronauts now.

Any leader in russia needs to promote science ,need to promote technology ,needs to promote
space exploration.. not just with words .but with their money too. Because this big things ,that
leads humanity into the impossible ,into conquering space ,and developing technology that change
the planet at a global level ,(As internet invention was.. and computers and photography .as smartphones have done , that is now the favorite tech tool to use of every adult in the world.
but that also children love.  This inventions and achievements that surprise the world , are the
things ,that Russia desperately needs ,to stop the west from creating an alliance against russia.
The nations Russia fail to influence , will be nations that americans will give weapons them to help them to fight russia. So is leadership in space and in ground breaking technology for civilian use,are the only way russia can stop the war that today exist ,without firing a single bullet. by just leading,
will reduce any influence of americans in europe and the world.. today we see that with china
5G , that is something europeans can really live without it ,don't need it ,but the enormous benefits
of china 5G are too good to pass , for europe ,china it technology will put an end to american spying
in europe phones and will open the door for major ground breaking development like cloud computing and real time surveillance of every street in europe , knowing who moves where and very important for nation security , if a major crime happening ,their phones will reveal ,who was the last person ,close to any crime scene. This 5G technology of china is part of the success of china containing the virus , because all transactions are done with the phone ,all digital , and you can't buy anything without your phone.. then everyone is forced to have a phone to do anything outside, and with an aplication everyone can have in their phone , if someone gets a virus , and is detected when trying to enter a restaurant.. the government will know which people came in close contact with that person. so this technology will significantly reduce crime ,disband gangs groups and expose those foreign spies in their country too ,trying to cause damage . so china today thanks to its technology is one of the safest countries in the world to live and walk at any time ,any hour at night safe. because
there is very good surveillance by technology of people movements .

Vann7 wrote:

look at this amazing beauty..
This are the investments that really matter for Russia and what can melt
cold relations with the west and attract nations towards russia orbit. the world love
nations that leads in future and in space and russia could do both with the right investment.

What makes you think a westerner would even recognise advanced technology if it was right in front of them? Most westerners think smartphones are advanced technology and know nothing about the Russian lead in nuclear reactors or how it is Russia that will launch the first nuclear powered spacecraft, most westerners call the Buran a space shuttle copy.

Then you assume that showing of Russian technological superiority to the west would improve relations, this is quite ridiculous, the only thing that this would achieve is to cause the west to become even more insecure and begin to delude themselves even more in a desperate attempt to avoid admitting to themselves that they are inferior.

The west would still think Russia was backwards even if Russia invented faster than light travel and controlled the entire galaxy.

Besides what exactly is the point of better relations with the west? What could thoes delusional cretin possibly have to offer Russia?

But you know what, it is quite simple to verify they went there. They left a reflecting device on the Moon which was used for an experiment to determine the distance between the Earth and the Moon.
You can aim there and check if it reflects like it was supposed to.

Except there is a corner reflector up there the Soviets launched on one of their unmanned rover vehicles... and it reflects laser as well... rather better than the American one left there... so that does not really prove anything at all.

https://phys.org/news/2010-06-moon-rover-laser-earth.html

The-thing-next-door wrote:

Besides what exactly is the point of better relations with the west? What could thoes delusional cretin possibly have to offer Russia?

The point is ,that the nations that Russia fails to influence ,will be nations that Russia will
need to fight.  So if Russia wants to avoid ,to face a world war 3 . then only way they can do
that is convince at least Europe to abandon NATO ,which will at the same time means
abandoning the american system and american business.

And they will never do that if they have no alternative to american business. no alternative
to american internet ,to american banking system ,no alternative to american entertainment
industry and no alternative to american computers ,and no alternative to american space program
,if Russia continue doing nothing in space. so in short no alternative to american system.
When you think in US system = American + europe + asian development nations + most latin america. this is a lot of power ,for just one nation ,and the only way putin could have a chance
to end this world unfair order.. is that russia with china creates a new ,more superior system.
an alternative to the western world.. and the more Russia influence europe.. the more difficult
will be for anglo powers to start a war against russia. why europe? because europe are russian neighbors..and russia needs to remove any unfriendly americans from its borders.

and if russia influence is too big ,it can influence american too..
it can be done ,because china did it. and russia also did it with its space program.
when americans had no rocket for ISS , they were forced to cooperate with russia in space..

Every nation can be influenced ,this is the point and americans are not an exception.
Russia only need to understand what things influence americans.. what kind of business.

americans and europeans love space ,they love entertainment ,they love high tech electronics that people use every day ,they love video games . this is the kind of business russia government needs to promote and not sports , that what sport do is promote people abandoning school for easy money and get lifetime injuries .Russia need to change its economy to a very modern one. If Russia was landing today in mars with humans.. then none of those russian haters
in the west will have a way to continue continue the cold war against russia . so they will be forced
to abandon their attempts to isolate russia ,when the entire world and their citizens love their achievements and what they have to offer to them. so this will force them to end the cold war ,
if they don't want to be left behind , because europe be fighting each other to join Russian missions to space  if achieved such major success. imagine russia space tourism , how many billionaires in the west will be waiting in line ,to travel around earth and moon in a russian space rocket.. if they achieved such flights in a complete safe way. simply the west only respect force and leadership,
and putin will never influence the west from a position of weakness or with politeness.

Wouldnt be cool to travel around the moon orbit as a tourist ,in a space civilian rocket?
an experience that never you will forget.. naturally such travels will be expensive but for the many
billionaires in the world is a no brainer. to at least one time in their lifetime to had the opportunity
to travel to space. this is how russia needs to think ,if they want to influence the world ,against
any hostile agendas of the west. and how russia can promote cooperation.. if they still refuse to cooperate? not a problem.. russia civilian space program ,will help also enormously the russian
military too. in building space bombers ,so if russia business don't influence nato ,force will do it.
so russia investing heavily in space.. is a win/win thing for russia.. it can't lose. is all win . it will
make russia not only more influential ,but also much more stronger and alot more powerful its military. and as a bonus it will promote patriotism too ,and national pride ,and will encourage/promote its society to study and get a scientific or engineering degree in aeronatics ,space
or chemistry.. so is crazy ,that putin don't see how much opportunities he is missing ,by not being much more ambitious in space or in advance high tech that civilians will love to use.

nuclear reactors helps the economy ,but is not an asset for civilians to use.. neither stealth planes .
russia simply needs to develops russia in a way that will impact directly society ,civilians around the world and that the west will love.. is about winning people hearts.. how russia can stop NATO.
winning the west with future business that society will truly inspire them ,or technology they will
love to use..

...That The United States will withdraw from this project after 2024 , it is obvious now, because the ambitions of the overseas partners now lie in lunar orbit - a new orbital station is to be created soon, and then a project to create a lunar base will be implemented.

Alas, the aspirations of Roskosmos do not extend so far...

Considering who is running that clownshow they should feel lucky even this much was promised (delivery is whole different ball game)

They were offered practically free ride by Americans (one miniscule docking module with someone else doing delivery) on cis-lunar station but Trampoline Man was being retard as always

When USA puts together that station Trampoline Man will say that station is fake and will promise Russian station in orbit of Mars in 5 years time

It's always 5 years with Roskosmos, close enough to give suckers hope but still far away for most people to forget about it and let them come up with new BS for next 5 year cycle

On the other hand, the station can be an excellent help in case of project implementation the space tug Nuclon and a Russian outpost en route to deep space.

Missions to deep space or even manned missions beyond earth orbit would benefit from an orbital station where things can be assembled and stopovers can be made....

No plans for cooperation with Chinese space station?

A Soyuz-ST launch with a European reconnaissance satellite due for launch today from French Guyana. Any last minute scrub would mean next year. By the way, is there a separate topic here that discusses upper stages? I feel like both Fregat and Briz have no equal when it comes to programmed maneuverability. Anyone has some comparative info on other systems?