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    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri May 08, 2015 11:18 am

    In may opinion, it seems that the turret's outer layer is "mainly" a low-observable layer. The following is a list of its possible roles.

    1- A low-observable layer.

    2- A sensor layer for activating active/reactive armor elements.

    3- A current path for electric-current-based reactive armor. This would imply an inner high conductivity cladding, e.g., copper cladding.
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    Post  chicken on Fri May 08, 2015 11:42 am

    What of happenings?

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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri May 08, 2015 11:44 am

    chicken wrote:What of happenings?


    Looks like auto transmission has teething issues. Second take.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri May 08, 2015 11:58 am

    Using this photo, the tack width seems to be 550 mm; however, in this day and age, there are many distorted photos, thanks to change in aspect ratios that can often happen.


    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 36 0_9c4be_aa0213e_XXL

    Due to fundamental armor vehicle design requirements, I think, a track-width of 580 mm (that for T-72, T-80, or T-90) is an upper bound for a good tank design. That is the reason ob''ekt 279 had 4 tracks; having only 2 tracks wouldn't have worked for its weight without thinning the armor.

    T-72 started life with a ground pressure of 0.85 kgs/cm^2; 0.8 kgs/cm^2 may be too good, in this day and age, for a tank.

    Hence, for a track width of 0.58 m, a track length on the ground of 5 m, and a ground-pressure of 0.85 kgs/cm^2, the total weight would be 49 t.
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    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri May 08, 2015 12:24 pm

    One issue with the microelectronics / imports highlighted is not for the basic ballistic computers and autoloaders etc (which the current generation of russian electronics will easily handle)... but for current / future augmented reality systems where you would need 22nm and better chips to reduce power consumption on visor and UAV mounted electronics.

    Also I would say that in the future Armata tanks and IFVs should each have 2-3 small UAVs which are charged on board and launch and fly automatically above / in front of the vehicle as a forward scout and give a better Situational awareness for the crews. Those would also benefit from the 22nm and better chips to reduce power consumption and improve the endurance of each UAV... Imagine that a "buttoned up" tank would be launching and recovering these small UAVs automatically, the commander simply having the feed from these cameras fed to him without having to think about launching or controlling an individual UAV. whilst one UAV is in the air, the other 2 are getting charged on the tank in their own "recharge stations" that they land into automatically when their power goes low.

    Such an addition would only cost maybe $100k per tank (with three thermal camera equipped UAVs). a small price for a dramatic improvement in SA.

    As was shown a few pages ago, there are a series of rear view cameras... so I imagine that the driver can drive the tank forward and backwards effortlessly without having to "think" about which direction he's driving in. when he engages reverse, his visor and controls automatically switch... perhaps he just has a little sign on his visor/screen with "R" on it.



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    Post  Austin on Fri May 08, 2015 2:07 pm

    Some special features of Russia's new generation Armata combat platform disclosed
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    Post  BKP on Fri May 08, 2015 2:08 pm

    Thanks for replies regarding bbc piece. And, yeah, the British press is a real pisser.

    sheytanelkebir wrote:One issue with the microelectronics / imports highlighted is not for the basic ballistic computers and autoloaders etc (which the current generation of russian electronics will easily handle)... but for current / future augmented reality systems where you would need 22nm and better chips to reduce power consumption on visor and UAV mounted electronics...

    Interesting. If RF needs to develop the capability to produce 22nm chips, then I would guess it's considered a priority to do so.

    I remember reading a piece in (I believe) an IEEE publication a couple of years ago about the supreme difficulty in detecting trapdoors and other malicious code in firmware, much more so than in OS or application software. So I would hope that Russia would never opt to use western-designed chips in critical systems.
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    Post  Austin on Fri May 08, 2015 2:47 pm

    Interview with deputy general director of corporation "Uralvagonzavod" Vyacheslav Halitov.

    Armata : http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/1954916?page=2
    Kuragnets: http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/1954916?page=3
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    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri May 08, 2015 2:51 pm

    they could licence ARM risc chipset base design and purchase fabrication plant equipment from Korea / Taiwan. Its not something that's particularly difficult for Russia to Achieve. Certainly they should develop their OS / real time OS / ASIC software in house which would be the bigger effort.

    They could also start by buying some "foreign" off the shelf tech (DJI drones and some commercial AR visors) setup on a T90MS type tank and sold on the export markets / tested internally to see the viability of some of these techs in combat use. The ability to detect the enemy from a long range by individual tanks and maybe even the ability to guide missiles over the line of sight using your small UAV would be a nice potent capability... I guess even the new Kornet-ED / krysanthema could use it to achieve maximum range effectively.
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    Post  Regular on Fri May 08, 2015 5:17 pm

    It seems Armata is having problems with transmission, now it was T-15. It could only move in reverse. So it was evacuated.
    }
    Eventually it managed to board trailer.
    Now makes me thing why they wanted to present tank now, not after a year or so?
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    Post  Zivo on Fri May 08, 2015 6:12 pm

    Regular wrote:It seems Armata is having problems with transmission, now it was T-15. It could only move in reverse. So it was evacuated.
    }
    Eventually it managed to board trailer.
    Now makes me thing why they wanted to present tank now, not after a year or so?

    Keep your fingers crossed for the actual parade.

    Armata has a complex transmission, and relies on sensors and computer control to operate. It's a shame that they couldn't sort out the problems with it before the parade.
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    Post  JohnSnow on Fri May 08, 2015 6:19 pm

    Zivo wrote:
    Regular wrote:It seems Armata is having problems with transmission, now it was T-15. It could only move in reverse. So it was evacuated.
    }
    Eventually it managed to board trailer.
    Now makes me thing why they wanted to present tank now, not after a year or so?

    Keep your fingers crossed for the actual parade.

    Armata has a complex transmission, and relies on sensors and computer control to operate. It's a shame that they couldn't sort out the problems with it before the parade.

    I don't get it. If this thing will be going into production in 2 years, why does it need to appear in a parade this year?
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri May 08, 2015 6:24 pm

    JohnSnow wrote:
    Zivo wrote:
    Regular wrote:It seems Armata is having problems with transmission, now it was T-15. It could only move in reverse. So it was evacuated.
    }
    Eventually it managed to board trailer.
    Now makes me thing why they wanted to present tank now, not after a year or so?

    Keep your fingers crossed for the actual parade.

    Armata has a complex transmission, and relies on sensors and computer control to operate. It's a shame that they couldn't sort out the problems with it before the parade.

    I don't get it. If this thing will be going into production in 2 years, why does it need to appear in a parade this year?

    Remember to introduce yourself in the member introduction forum.
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    Post  archangelski on Fri May 08, 2015 6:41 pm

    T-15 walkaround :

    http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/v/walkarounds/afv/after_1950/bmp_t-15/
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    Post  AbsoluteZero on Fri May 08, 2015 7:12 pm

    Thats too bad.. i hope everything goes well tomorrow
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    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 08, 2015 8:01 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:One issue with the microelectronics / imports highlighted is not for the basic ballistic computers and autoloaders etc (which the current generation of russian electronics will easily handle)... but for current / future augmented reality systems where you would need 22nm and better chips to reduce power consumption on visor and UAV mounted electronics.

    Also I would say that in the future Armata tanks and IFVs should each have 2-3 small UAVs which are charged on board and launch and fly automatically above / in front of the vehicle as a forward scout and give a better Situational awareness for the crews. Those would also benefit from the 22nm and better chips to reduce power consumption and improve the endurance of each UAV... Imagine that a "buttoned up" tank would be launching and recovering these small UAVs automatically, the commander simply having the feed from these cameras fed to him without having to think about launching or controlling an individual UAV. whilst one UAV is in the air, the other 2 are getting charged on the tank in their own "recharge stations" that they land into automatically when their power goes low.

    Such an addition would only cost maybe $100k per tank (with three thermal camera equipped UAVs). a small price for a dramatic improvement in SA.

    As was shown a few pages ago, there are a series of rear view cameras... so I imagine that the driver can drive the tank forward and backwards effortlessly without having to "think" about which direction he's driving in. when he engages reverse, his visor and controls automatically switch... perhaps he just has a little sign on his visor/screen with "R" on it.



    That UAV can be a quadricopter. They can land on objects that are in move. And can carry a lot. Also a separate machine on t14 chassis could have a huge quadricopter.
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    Post  Viktor on Fri May 08, 2015 9:21 pm

    Austin wrote:Interview with deputy general director of corporation "Uralvagonzavod" Vyacheslav Halitov.

    Armata : http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/1954916?page=2
    Kuragnets: http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/1954916?page=3

    from your link:

    And we offered today its unprecedented level, providing, in addition to the passive armor with ceramic plates, a kind of "protective dome", consisting of active protection and the protection of the upper hemisphere, systems setting screens and electromagnetic protection.

    that settles some speculation Very Happy

    -------

    http://www.russiadefence.net/viewtopic.forum?t=6846
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    Post  Vann7 on Fri May 08, 2015 9:39 pm

    Zivo wrote:
    Regular wrote:It seems Armata is having problems with transmission, now it was T-15. It could only move in reverse. So it was evacuated.
    }
    Eventually it managed to board trailer.
    Now makes me thing why they wanted to present tank now, not after a year or so?

    Keep your fingers crossed for the actual parade.

    Armata has a complex transmission, and relies on sensors and computer control to operate. It's a shame that they couldn't sort out the problems with it before the parade.

    Now the damage is done.. they should not be showing the armata at all if not ready . specially because the tanks are still years away of serial production. It looks the engine is faulty and they
    will need to return to the drawing board. It will not be a biggie ,they could just use a T-90 engine with improvements ,but definitively it will delay the tank.
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    Post  AbsoluteZero on Fri May 08, 2015 9:46 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Zivo wrote:
    Regular wrote:It seems Armata is having problems with transmission, now it was T-15. It could only move in reverse. So it was evacuated.
    }
    Eventually it managed to board trailer.
    Now makes me thing why they wanted to present tank now, not after a year or so?

    Keep your fingers crossed for the actual parade.

    Armata has a complex transmission, and relies on sensors and computer control to operate. It's a shame that they couldn't sort out the problems with it before the parade.

    Now the damage is done.. they should not be showing the armata at all if not ready . specially because the tanks are still years away of serial production. It looks the engine is faulty and they
    will need to return to the drawing board. It will not be a biggie ,they could just use a T-90 engine with improvements ,but definitively it will delay the tank.

    I wonder, why does it have to happen now? Im sure they have been testing these vehicles since last year? And the problems are only showing now? When the tarps were on they are working just fine Question
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    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri May 08, 2015 9:50 pm

    AbsoluteZero wrote:
    I wonder, why does it have to happen now? Im sure they have been testing these vehicles since last year? And the problems are only showing now? When the tarps were on they are working just fine Question

    Murphy's law i guess.

    factors are many, transmissions, poor crewmanship etc.
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    Post  sepheronx on Fri May 08, 2015 10:45 pm

    BKP wrote:Thanks for replies regarding bbc piece. And, yeah, the British press is a real pisser.

    sheytanelkebir wrote:One issue with the microelectronics / imports highlighted is not for the basic ballistic computers and autoloaders etc (which the current generation of russian electronics will easily handle)... but for current / future augmented reality systems where you would need 22nm and better chips to reduce power consumption on visor and UAV mounted electronics...

    Interesting. If RF needs to develop the capability to produce 22nm chips, then I would guess it's considered a priority to do so.

    I remember reading a piece in (I believe) an IEEE publication a couple of years ago about the supreme difficulty in detecting trapdoors and other malicious code in firmware, much more so than in OS or application software. So I would hope that Russia would never opt to use western-designed chips in critical systems.

    My suggestion to you people is to do your research.  Let me help you:

    Chip makers in Russia:

    Elvees Multicore: http://multicore.ru/
    Mikron: http://www.mikron.ru/en/
    Multiclet: http://www.multiclet.com/
    Module: http://www.module.ru/
    Niisi: https://www.niisi.ru/
    My fav
    Elbrus (MCST): http://mcst.ru/

    upcoming:
    Baikal ARM processor R&D: http://baikalelectronics.com/en/

    All of these are chip R&D facilities making various chips for various purposes, some of these are made domestically in Angstrom, and some are made in China/Taiwan with 1 (Modules ARM) is co-developed in Fujitsu Japan.  Nanometer does not indicate instant reduction in power usage, as I should remind some of you, the Elbrus 2C+ operates within 40W, which is pretty darn good for a 90nm processor and operates significantly cooler and less power hungry than the AMD x86 processors running at 40nm and less.
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    Post  alexZam on Fri May 08, 2015 11:19 pm

    Smooth.
    T-15

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    Post  kvs on Sat May 09, 2015 12:18 am

    sheytanelkebir wrote:One issue with the microelectronics / imports highlighted is not for the basic ballistic computers and autoloaders etc (which the current generation of russian electronics will easily handle)... but for current / future augmented reality systems where you would need 22nm and better chips to reduce power consumption on visor and UAV mounted electronics.

    Also I would say that in the future Armata tanks and IFVs should each have 2-3 small UAVs which are charged on board and launch and fly automatically above / in front of the vehicle as a forward scout and give a better Situational awareness for the crews. Those would also benefit from the 22nm and better chips to reduce power consumption and improve the endurance of each UAV... Imagine that a "buttoned up" tank would be launching and recovering these small UAVs automatically, the commander simply having the feed from these cameras fed to him without having to think about launching or controlling an individual UAV. whilst one UAV is in the air, the other 2 are getting charged on the tank in their own "recharge stations" that they land into automatically when their power goes low.

    Such an addition would only cost maybe $100k per tank (with three thermal camera equipped UAVs). a small price for a dramatic improvement in SA.

    As was shown a few pages ago, there are a series of rear view cameras... so I imagine that the driver can drive the tank forward and backwards effortlessly without having to "think" about which direction he's driving in. when he engages reverse, his visor and controls automatically switch... perhaps he just has a little sign on his visor/screen with "R" on it.


    I just can't see UAV information processing requiring AI computing. Augmented reality I call unnecessary information overload. A system that tracks discrete objects and a human-digestible level of them is all that is needed. Pushing a vast amount of pixels to do real time rendering of landscapes and
    pattern recognition is gross overkill. I see these "VR" tools being more relevant for pilots and not tank operators.

    What a modern tank needs is high level sensors (spanning visible to IR emissions) and the ability to track the significant objects in its vicinity.
    Sophisticated detection technology coupled with training will run circles around some pattern recognition system that "augments"
    the operator.

    If there isn't a war in the next few years, Russia will reach the same IC resolution limits (< 5 nm) that NATO has to deal with. Given
    Russia's previous performance is doing more with less by that stage it will be NATO that will in the clear disadvantage. (BTW, I
    see this "throw more CPU resources at the problem" mindset in the civilian research field, the problem is that the problems involved
    are not one-parameter that they can be "solved" this easily.)
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    Post  Regular on Sat May 09, 2015 12:47 am

    alexZam wrote:Smooth.
    T-15

    It sems to have very good torque and very good suspension.
    T-15 looks like perfection to me, it just screams of CC Generals chinese tank.
    I do hope heads will roll and problems will be fixed, cause now haters are having a field day
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    Post  Flanky on Sat May 09, 2015 12:58 am

    All those Armata glitches will be dealth with...
    What i was pretty surprised was the shape of the turret...
    For a Russian tank school that turret is too high and from front aspect ratio not that good armour angle - but then i can be pretty sure that they have a followup turret developments... possibly with a very high caliber gun as well...

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