[Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

Werewolf wrote:What Grifel round?

Can you post source for information on that round?

It's the new APFSDS round for the T-14's 2A82 gun. Not much official data is available AFAIK. On some forum discussions it's said that it has about 20% better performance than the best western rounds.

This was posted on the Otvaga forum a couple of years back as possibly being the 'Grifel'

Cyberspec wrote:

Werewolf wrote:What Grifel round?

Can you post source for information on that round?

It's the new APFSDS round for the T-14's 2A82 gun. Not much official data is available AFAIK. On some forum discussions it's said that it has about 20% better performance than the best western rounds.

This was posted on the Otvaga forum a couple of years back as possibly being the 'Grifel'

There are no dimensions of the round mentioned?

Werewolf wrote:There are no dimensions of the round mentioned?

APFSDS length should be about 1 meter.

Here's how it allegedly should look like:

1000mm length was mentioned earlier. But IIRC the mystery is what that figure was actually referring to. The M829A3 is just a hair under 1m in total length, and as Cyberspec said, Grifel may be 20% more powerful. So the projectile (Rod + ballistic tip + tail fin) could be 1m.

etaepsilonk wrote:

Werewolf wrote:There are no dimensions of the round mentioned?

APFSDS length should be about 1 meter.

Here's how it allegedly should look like:

That is 152mm Grifel IIRC.

I too remember that image being associated with the 152mm round.

The 125mm should be similar, at least in appearance.

Grifel 3 is also a APFSDS?

Werewolf wrote:Grifel 3 is also a APFSDS?

HE-Frag.

The laser beams these missiles ride are coded so each missile should be able to determine which signal it should be following and which it should ignore.

From my understanding, the beam consists of a series of lasers each broadcasting a separate digital code. I think there's four separate lasers, arranged to create a four quadrant, "+" patterned, conical beam. The laser in the top left quadrant continuously broadcasts a code that when read by the missile, tells the missile to turn down and to the right. Because of the angle of the lasers, the missile's rear looking sensor will only receive the code of the quadrant it drifted into. All four quadrants point the missile towards the center of the "+". Because of the physics behind the system, for all intents and purposes, it's jam proof as the only way to disrupt the guidance is to position something between the missile and the emission source for the laser, which is usually the launcher.

Herein lies the possible problem with launching multiple missiles. The second missile in the salvo will physically block the emission source for the first missile. Eventually the first missile will drift out of the second missile's "shadow" and receive the code to correct its path. However, during that period in the shadow it would be unguided. The more missiles there are in the salvo, the less accurate the first missile will be. The obvious solution is to have two offset beams, or channels, so you can launch two missiles and not have them block each others beam. You can also lock onto separate targets if the beams can be independently aimed.

I don't know how much of a problem this actually is, but given that using separate beams to launch separate missiles is the common practice, I assume it's the more reliable method.

Laser Beam Riders work with "Blik" which is the Weapon guidance control system, like this.





The System Blik which is the current LBR guidance control can guide two missiles.

But laser beam is ineffective at long range. Maibe a kore narrower beam at start should increase range

[quote="GarryB"]

Unlike a TOW where a moving launch platform leads to a snagged wire and then a broken wire and then an ATGM plunging into the ground.

TOW is wireless now.

akd wrote:

GarryB wrote:

Unlike a TOW where a moving launch platform leads to a snagged wire and then a broken wire and then an ATGM plunging into the ground.

TOW is wireless now.

Some are, but it still was not really improved in range with the long range variant of only 4750m, not really that great in range and that for a missile that is used on Helicopters Tow2A Aero (A-129).

New video of Armata

Werewolf wrote:Laser Beam Riders work with "Blik" which is the Weapon guidance control system, like this.





The System Blik which is the current LBR guidance control can guide two missiles.

The laser beam from picture could be opossite? Larger at start and narrow at the missile

If you look at the lower hull in the video, you can see that it's angled.

The laser beam from picture could be opossite? Larger at start and narrow at the missile

No, not with the current FLIR's, they would need prisms to change the illumination angle and beam.

If you look at the lower hull in the video, you can see that it's angled.

You mean the side of the hull? If so, yes it looks like that.

Yeah, the side.

Anyone have an idea what the odd bit sticking up on the right side of the bustle could be?

Zivo wrote:Yeah, the side.

Anyone have an idea what the odd bit sticking up on the right side of the bustle could be?

Tarp

Another size comparison. This time from a correctly oriented side profile shot. Overlay is a Leopard 2A6.



As suspected, the hull is as large as those on western MBT's, but the turret is smaller.

Zivo wrote:Another size comparison. This time from a correctly oriented side profile shot. Overlay is a Leopard 2A6.



As suspected, the hull is as large as those on western MBT's, but the turret is smaller.

Which allows the T-14 to shed 10 tons of weight, and reducing ground pressure and maintaining high mobility likely T-90's level of mobility traversing cross-country terrain.

Which allows the T-14 to shed 10 tons of weight, and reducing ground pressure and maintaining high mobility likely T-90's level of mobility traversing cross-country terrain.

Armata's going to have an insane power/weight ratio. I cannot wait to see them let this thing loose on a range.