Syrian War: News #18

The job of the Russian military in Syria is not to protect what are probably Hezbollah weapons warehouses 'safely' out of the way in Syria. Never has been, never will be.

Appeasement has NEVER been proven in history to ever work. NEVER!

Russia's policy of appeasement has consequences and will continue to have consequences. Anyone that is mildly educated is world history, and ancient history KNOWS this. So it's not a question of: IF x, y or z event happens this proves appeasement towards this x,y or z country failed........ no, no, no it defacto failed the second the decision was made to appease.

No matter how much spin and "logic" you throw at the issue....the constant remains; why did Russia appease Israel? Sometimes things are simple.

I do agree with some folks saying if they were Russian they wouldn't suit up for the Syrian theater - avoid it like a plague........ the deaths keep on piling and the other belligerent sides stay untouched. The rubles and careers ain't worth a life for such spineless and incompetent leadership - political that is. I mean, Putin just straight up went against his own MOD when assessing blame. Total divergence in the content of the message and tone. It's a disgrace and would be domestic political chaos for any world leader.

@LMFS Thanks for inserting a bit of reason and sanity back to the thread. I can appreciate and empathize with all the emotional reaction for retaliation and for blood, but when does reacting on impulse ever work out well? The man in the hot seat has to consider the bigger picture, the larger issues and attendant consequences. There are so many other considerations that need to be factored in and taken into account rather than just go berserk like a raging bull. What then might be left? Russia indeed has a lot of leverage and means at its disposal to respond, but that response should not play into the hands of what its enemies are trying to bait it into. Rather, Russia needs to very careful, patient and thoughtful in how it goes about achieving its larger ambitions, not allowing its eyes to be taken off the ball, which is to rebuild itself to a position of strength. This is exactly what the US is hell bent on stopping, and pushing Russia to trip off and lose focus is the trap they're setting. Russia is constantly being baited to react, but think of the consequences. It is why they're throwing everything plus the kitchen sink at Russia, blaming Russia for everything under the sun, with a media network gone hyperactive spinning extreme narratives that is spreading russophobia like a pandemic across the globe. For the sake of the vision of a multi-polar world where all nations have a greater level of independence, I hope Russia (and China) continue to exercise restraint and "strategic patience" which some here equate with weakness. In relative terms, Russia is indeed a weaker state. But take a look at how it's been developing and strengthening over the past decade or two. Not by being belligerent, but by being smart, engaging and rational. In time the deaths of these honorable servicemen would not have been in vain as Russia ultimately grows stronger and more prosperous and able to unreservedly defend her own interests..

ATLASCUB wrote:Appeasement has NEVER been proven in history to ever work. NEVER!

Russia's policy of appeasement has consequences and will continue to have consequences. Anyone that is mildly educated is world history, and ancient history KNOWS this. So it's not a question of: IF x, y or z event happens this proves appeasement towards this x,y or z country failed........ no, no, no it defacto failed the second the decision was made to appease.

No matter how much spin and "logic" you throw at the issue....the constant remains; why did Russia appease Israel? Sometimes things are simple.

I do agree with some folks saying if they were Russian they wouldn't suit up for the Syrian theater - avoid it like a plague........ the deaths keep on piling and the other belligerent sides stay untouched. The rubles and careers ain't worth a life for such spineless and incompetent leadership - political that is. I mean, Putin just straight up went against his own MOD when assessing blame. Total divergence in the content of the message and tone. It's a disgrace and would be domestic political chaos for any world leader.

This is not about appeasement, nobody is hoping that the West is going to have a better day tomorrow and forget their obsession with Russia. It is their centuries-old strategy and is not going to change anytime soon.

This is rather about picking your fights when and where they suit you and not when your enemy wants. It amazes me that you can think Russian leadership ignores this

Have you ever considered that the escalation could be in the interests of the West and not of Russia? In other words, was it a smart movement for Japan to strike the US in Pearl Harbour or rather the cause of their demise? Is it not transparently clear that the West NEEDS to escalate the confrontation with Russia and China NOW before the Eurasian integration moves forward and more countries abandon the dollar??

JohninMK wrote:The job of the Russian military in Syria is not to protect what are probably Hezbollah weapons warehouses 'safely' out of the way in Syria. Never has been, never will be.

You are  naive and it does not surprise me of British people with the jewish controlled media they have. if you believe in Israel propaganda.. Is not "Warehouses of hezbolah weapons" what Israel target  in Syria.. What they target is Syrian army and the warehouse of weapons of the Syrian army themselves ,that could allow them
to defend themselves against israel or fight better against the terrorist Israel ,NATO countries are aiding.. They also target heavily Syria air defenses..(that Russia give to syria)  so don't come saying that it was because of Iran or hezbolah bullshit..

And Assad is busy fighting terrorist in their country , and defending against NATO constant attacks in case you didn't noticed in 7 years of conflict.. to want to provoke Israel into another frontline.  Israel only use the Hezbolah and Iranian excuse to justify their aggression on another country.  What Israel targets in Syria ,is anything Syria have ,that Russia give to Syria ,that could help Syria defend itself against israel..  So is not hezbolah what israel targets..

What Israel really is aiming is the destruction of the Syrian state , and the destruction of Russia too..
The syrian war , is a war of NATO top powers and Israel vs Russia and Syria and IRAN..
Israel flagrant arrogance and hostilities ,bombing near Russian base
is a clear hostile action against Russia , that aims , to pressure Russia to abandon their support to Syria.. so that they can restart the war.. with their head choppers and suicide bombers over running Syria.. So stop your propaganda , face washing Israel and NATO crimes in Syria.  Syria have the right to exist.. and have any weapons for self defense it wants.. and the right to invite who ever the hell they want in their country.. Respect Syria dude , for once..  If you believe UK have the right to exist and have any weapons for nation defense..then you can't deny that right to Syria. if we lived in a world of law and order.. Therese may and netanyahu and their entire political parties will be hanged like mussolini for mass crimes against humanity.. Syria is defending itself from NATO and Israel illegal war on their country and Russia is only there to help save human lives..and the continuation of the Syrian state.. if you reject terrorism in london , with people killed ,then you will do right in rejecting any government or country who support terrorism in Syria.. Hezbolah and Iran are only in syria to help fight the terrorism that NATO and Israel is supporting.. They will not be there ,had US,Britain and ,Israel were not interfering in Syria ,aiding terrorism.

aside that Assad dont need to store any weapon in Syria ,if they want to pass it to IRAN and Hezbolah.. They can very easily fly over Lebanon border and drop in a secret place any advanced weapons to them.. or Hezbolah can simply cross the border on foot or in trucks at night , So Israel airforce will not know or see anything.. Is just a hoax ,israel claims is "intercepting" shipment of weapons to hezbolahh..  Even Russia can very easily pass weapons to Hezbolah from IRAN if  wanted it.. And imagine how you will see things ,if Russia was arming alqaeda fighters in britain to overrun your cities.. ???? So you are wrong dude in minimizing the major genocide against millions of civilians that Israel and NATO sponsor with their alliance with terrorism..

Syria should bomb that Israel air base with ballistics missiles in retaliation of daily air strikes. They use cruise missiles, staying out of range of SAM envelop. The only way to stop the air strikes is strike the air base with ballistic missiles.

LMFS wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:Appeasement has NEVER been proven in history to ever work. NEVER!

Russia's policy of appeasement has consequences and will continue to have consequences. Anyone that is mildly educated is world history, and ancient history KNOWS this. So it's not a question of: IF x, y or z event happens this proves appeasement towards this x,y or z country failed........ no, no, no it defacto failed the second the decision was made to appease.

No matter how much spin and "logic" you throw at the issue....the constant remains; why did Russia appease Israel? Sometimes things are simple.

I do agree with some folks saying if they were Russian they wouldn't suit up for the Syrian theater - avoid it like a plague........ the deaths keep on piling and the other belligerent sides stay untouched. The rubles and careers ain't worth a life for such spineless and incompetent leadership - political that is. I mean, Putin just straight up went against his own MOD when assessing blame. Total divergence in the content of the message and tone. It's a disgrace and would be domestic political chaos for any world leader.

This is not about appeasement, nobody is hoping that the West is going to have a better day tomorrow and forget their obsession with Russia. It is their centuries-old strategy and is not going to change anytime soon.

This is rather about picking your fights when and where they suit you and not when your enemy wants. It amazes me that you can think Russian leadership ignores this

Have you ever considered that the escalation could be in the interests of the West and not of Russia? In other words, was it a smart movement for Japan to strike the US in Pearl Harbour or rather the cause of their demise? Is it not transparently clear that the West NEEDS to escalate the confrontation with Russia and China NOW before the Eurasian integration moves forward and more countries abandon the dollar??

So what should be the Red Line for Russia?

Say Israel or NATO destroys the Russian base in Khmeimim with a sudden sneak missile strike killing hundreds of Russian servicemen. What action should Russia take in this situation?

personally? should hit every asset that was used for that strike (ships, airbases, etc).

But I imagine instead, Putin would give them contracts to build stuff in Russia at extortion prices.

Isos wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:personally? should hit every asset that was used for that strike (ships, airbases, etc).

But I imagine instead, Putin would give them contracts to build stuff in Russia at extortion prices.

Khmeimim destroyed, putin says nothing ==> he is removed and probably a bad guy came to power and nuk some nato and israeli bases.

I would imagine the military would get the peoples support to lead a coup against Putin if that would be the case.

Judging from what I hear from around others, many are already pissed off with Putin regarding all this ass kissing going on. Even in the mil.

So I imagine he is fully aware of it and knows his balancing act is going to get even harder here on out.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

LMFS wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:Appeasement has NEVER been proven in history to ever work. NEVER!

Russia's policy of appeasement has consequences and will continue to have consequences. Anyone that is mildly educated is world history, and ancient history KNOWS this. So it's not a question of: IF x, y or z event happens this proves appeasement towards this x,y or z country failed........ no, no, no it defacto failed the second the decision was made to appease.

No matter how much spin and "logic" you throw at the issue....the constant remains; why did Russia appease Israel? Sometimes things are simple.

I do agree with some folks saying if they were Russian they wouldn't suit up for the Syrian theater - avoid it like a plague........ the deaths keep on piling and the other belligerent sides stay untouched. The rubles and careers ain't worth a life for such spineless and incompetent leadership - political that is. I mean, Putin just straight up went against his own MOD when assessing blame. Total divergence in the content of the message and tone. It's a disgrace and would be domestic political chaos for any world leader.

This is not about appeasement, nobody is hoping that the West is going to have a better day tomorrow and forget their obsession with Russia. It is their centuries-old strategy and is not going to change anytime soon.

This is rather about picking your fights when and where they suit you and not when your enemy wants. It amazes me that you can think Russian leadership ignores this

Have you ever considered that the escalation could be in the interests of the West and not of Russia? In other words, was it a smart movement for Japan to strike the US in Pearl Harbour or rather the cause of their demise? Is it not transparently clear that the West NEEDS to escalate the confrontation with Russia and China NOW before the Eurasian integration moves forward and more countries abandon the dollar??

So what should be the Red Line for Russia?

Say Israel or NATO destroys the Russian base in Khmeimim with a sudden sneak missile strike killing hundreds of Russian servicemen. What action should Russia take in this situation?

I hope an Ohio class sub doesn't nuke Moscow and claim it was an accident due to a malfunction LOL.

Seems the event was a clusterfucking of Iz violating ROE, their pilots unscrupulously using the Il-20 as cover and inadequate IFF procedures and implementation between RAF & SAA. So, knowing this now, we should be able to see that Russia's eventual response to this was not going to be one that would provide the immediate emotional gratification many would've preferred.

I'd say it's good to bear in mind that when one is confronting a rogues gallery of adversaries famed for deviousness one has to always suspect that the first reaction that comes to mind in a fresh crisis is precisely the one you're being goaded toward. And this is why I continue to see Putin's unflappable disposition as a positive aspect of his character. This hasn't changed my opinion on that at all.

miketheterrible wrote:

Isos wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:personally? should hit every asset that was used for that strike (ships, airbases, etc).

But I imagine instead, Putin would give them contracts to build stuff in Russia at extortion prices.

Khmeimim destroyed, putin says nothing ==> he is removed and probably a bad guy came to power and nuk some nato and israeli bases.

I would imagine the military would get the peoples support to lead a coup against Putin if that would be the case.

Judging from what I hear from around others, many are already pissed off with Putin regarding all this ass kissing going on.  Even in the mil.

So I imagine he is fully aware of it and knows his balancing act is going to get even harder here on out.

And Putin is going to get less and less popular among the Russian nationalists and patriots.

I don't actually hope for a military coup in Russia but a democratic process where the power is transferred to a stronger and more assertive people than the ones currently in power.

ultimatewarrior wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:

LMFS wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:Appeasement has NEVER been proven in history to ever work. NEVER!

Russia's policy of appeasement has consequences and will continue to have consequences. Anyone that is mildly educated is world history, and ancient history KNOWS this. So it's not a question of: IF x, y or z event happens this proves appeasement towards this x,y or z country failed........ no, no, no it defacto failed the second the decision was made to appease.

No matter how much spin and "logic" you throw at the issue....the constant remains; why did Russia appease Israel? Sometimes things are simple.

I do agree with some folks saying if they were Russian they wouldn't suit up for the Syrian theater - avoid it like a plague........ the deaths keep on piling and the other belligerent sides stay untouched. The rubles and careers ain't worth a life for such spineless and incompetent leadership - political that is. I mean, Putin just straight up went against his own MOD when assessing blame. Total divergence in the content of the message and tone. It's a disgrace and would be domestic political chaos for any world leader.

This is not about appeasement, nobody is hoping that the West is going to have a better day tomorrow and forget their obsession with Russia. It is their centuries-old strategy and is not going to change anytime soon.

This is rather about picking your fights when and where they suit you and not when your enemy wants. It amazes me that you can think Russian leadership ignores this

Have you ever considered that the escalation could be in the interests of the West and not of Russia? In other words, was it a smart movement for Japan to strike the US in Pearl Harbour or rather the cause of their demise? Is it not transparently clear that the West NEEDS to escalate the confrontation with Russia and China NOW before the Eurasian integration moves forward and more countries abandon the dollar??

So what should be the Red Line for Russia?

Say Israel or NATO destroys the Russian base in Khmeimim with a sudden sneak missile strike killing hundreds of Russian servicemen. What action should Russia take in this situation?

I hope an Ohio class sub doesn't nuke Moscow and claim it was an accident due to a malfunction LOL.

If Putin would survive that strike he would not retaliate and immediately accept any half-assed "apology" from his partners.

LMFS wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:Appeasement has NEVER been proven in history to ever work. NEVER!

Russia's policy of appeasement has consequences and will continue to have consequences. Anyone that is mildly educated is world history, and ancient history KNOWS this. So it's not a question of: IF x, y or z event happens this proves appeasement towards this x,y or z country failed........ no, no, no it defacto failed the second the decision was made to appease.

No matter how much spin and "logic" you throw at the issue....the constant remains; why did Russia appease Israel? Sometimes things are simple.

I do agree with some folks saying if they were Russian they wouldn't suit up for the Syrian theater - avoid it like a plague........ the deaths keep on piling and the other belligerent sides stay untouched. The rubles and careers ain't worth a life for such spineless and incompetent leadership - political that is. I mean, Putin just straight up went against his own MOD when assessing blame. Total divergence in the content of the message and tone. It's a disgrace and would be domestic political chaos for any world leader.

This is not about appeasement, nobody is hoping that the West is going to have a better day tomorrow and forget their obsession with Russia. It is their centuries-old strategy and is not going to change anytime soon.

This is rather about picking your fights when and where they suit you and not when your enemy wants. It amazes me that you can think Russian leadership ignores this

Have you ever considered that the escalation could be in the interests of the West and not of Russia? In other words, was it a smart movement for Japan to strike the US in Pearl Harbour or rather the cause of their demise? Is it not transparently clear that the West NEEDS to escalate the confrontation with Russia and China NOW before the Eurasian integration moves forward and more countries abandon the dollar??

What are you talking about? I continue to see people hang into the "strategic patience" fallacy by mixing simple strategy with grand strategy when writing nonsense.

This is not about picking fights....

Russia allows a country with diametrically opposed interest in Syria to free-bomb Syrian infrastructure and assets and have a free pass in Syrian airspace, its ally's airspace, when they're very capable of establishing a no fly zone, from the very beginning and telling the Israeli's to take a hike or see their planes fall from the sky if they transgress on the rule. If Russia had done that, you wouldn't be here in the first place. The moment Russia sets that red line and enforces against any challenge from the Israeli's (or anyone else) is the moment they stop the provocations in the air. Would this make Israel give up their dreams of seeing Syria up in flames and in chaos, divided and easy to control, thus gaining the Golans recognition? NO.. it won't stop it....they will put their efforts elsewhere but it will certainly take away the most powerful military tool at the Israeli's disposal for causing mischief, suffering (on your ally, and Russia too) and being an overall pest jacking up tensions unnecessarily. Top the cake? 15 Russians are dead.... that is policy failure at its finest. What does this have to do with picking up fights? Lmao... Simple strategy, it works.

Policy failure not only because Russians are dead but because your ally is getting hammered, because it invites others to challenge Russian power or feel confident in demanding more in negotiations. Also because it draws a clear red line in the relationship between Russia and Iran, and creates fault lines (unnecessarily) in what should be a harmonious relationship with regards to the Syrian conflict for the best possible outcome. This idea that all the targets Israeli's bomb are strictly Iranian targets is also nonsense...for the majority of the 200+ strikes you take the word of a lying rogue state for a fact. The fact is these targets are in Syrian soil, with Syrians in them and that in some ways or others it helps Syria's war effort....they are not all just a ferry train to Hezbollah... a group that has also shed lives in order to save Russia's ally from collapse....something Israel didn't give a shit about and actively conspired to destroy. I could go on....

So why appease the "security" interest of a rogue state hell bent on achieving the destruction of Syria (Russia's only true ally in the Middle East), in total disregard for Russia's interest (and Russian lives and treasure $$$). The future home to Russia's Naval Bastion in the Middle East - decoupling from the closed off Black Sea?  Ohh and please don't suggest the idea that Israel is NOW OK with Assad...no they're not. Israel will continue to try to get Assad removed - the means just changed, but the animosity will never change......that you can bet your bank on it - only a naive 5 year old would think otherwise. So hanging to a false belief of Israel tolerating Assad is just a foolish dream.

The only reason I could see why Russia appeases Israel is because Russia fears the capability of Israel to challenge Russia and take out Assad....through assassination or in an serious airstrike. But if that were the case then Russia is basically blackmailed, and defacto Israeli's bitch.....not just the Israeli's but also the Americans who are just as capable.... so what gives? That's a state of affairs that can't be maintained. Other considerations like Israel's security interest etc...are just baloney..... the moment Russia entered the Syrian conflict the moment the Russians and Israeli's were at silent war.

Anyway...

Controlling the airspace in any conflict is warfare tactics 101. What you have in Syria is a free-for-all clusterfuck in the air. That's what happens when there is no "alpha male" (dominant power if you will), willing to set the order and rules - in this case an unwilling Russia not sure how to exercise their own power and afraid of making their enemies, in essence, mad at Russia (but they already are   ) and also fearing their ensuing response if they get completely cut off the Syrian cake. No amount of spin is going to change the reality.

Seems Putin's media attache got word of the reaction to the recent set of news . Erdo's deal, this incident and his disgraceful reaction have made him look extremely weak so they got him some new macho PR stunts:

https://www.rt.com/news/438858-putin-sniper-rifle-kalashnikov/

Footage captures Russia’s president, who got his hands on a modern sniper rifle from renowned weapons-maker Kalashnikov, picking off targets at a distance of 600 meters.

Russian President Vladimir Putin visited an exhibition of the Kalashnikov Concern in Patriot Park outside Moscow on Wednesday. And he didn’t just inspect the military hardware – he got up-close and personal with one of them – a modern SVCh sniper rifle.

"It wasn't supposed to be like this after Vostok 2018." ......

A sad joke

JohninMK wrote:I am no fan of the IAF but from all reports they are typical of most top quality air forces in that they would plan their attacks, especially high risk ones like this, meticulously. Indeed I argued on various sites that the F-16s had hidden in the Il-20 radar 'shadow'. I am now not so sure.

So, can anyone explain how the IAF could have known in advance the flight path of the Il-20 so that they could have incorporated it into their plan before take-off?

Perhaps adding a comment on how it made any sense at all to slow the F-16s to Il-20, heading for landing, speed just prior to lobbing their SDB?

They probably planned lo-lo-hi profile of flight. Executing attack while switching to higher altitudes to afterburn away, however they probably adapted to chance that appeared in front of them.

Muricans did same in 1999. over Belgrade, used Russian civilian liner as cover to attack certain fortified location in capital. After all, American and Israeli pilots are well known for good improvisation and adaptation.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

ultimatewarrior wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:

LMFS wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:Appeasement has NEVER been proven in history to ever work. NEVER!

Russia's policy of appeasement has consequences and will continue to have consequences. Anyone that is mildly educated is world history, and ancient history KNOWS this. So it's not a question of: IF x, y or z event happens this proves appeasement towards this x,y or z country failed........ no, no, no it defacto failed the second the decision was made to appease.

No matter how much spin and "logic" you throw at the issue....the constant remains; why did Russia appease Israel? Sometimes things are simple.

I do agree with some folks saying if they were Russian they wouldn't suit up for the Syrian theater - avoid it like a plague........ the deaths keep on piling and the other belligerent sides stay untouched. The rubles and careers ain't worth a life for such spineless and incompetent leadership - political that is. I mean, Putin just straight up went against his own MOD when assessing blame. Total divergence in the content of the message and tone. It's a disgrace and would be domestic political chaos for any world leader.

This is not about appeasement, nobody is hoping that the West is going to have a better day tomorrow and forget their obsession with Russia. It is their centuries-old strategy and is not going to change anytime soon.

This is rather about picking your fights when and where they suit you and not when your enemy wants. It amazes me that you can think Russian leadership ignores this

Have you ever considered that the escalation could be in the interests of the West and not of Russia? In other words, was it a smart movement for Japan to strike the US in Pearl Harbour or rather the cause of their demise? Is it not transparently clear that the West NEEDS to escalate the confrontation with Russia and China NOW before the Eurasian integration moves forward and more countries abandon the dollar??

So what should be the Red Line for Russia?

Say Israel or NATO destroys the Russian base in Khmeimim with a sudden sneak missile strike killing hundreds of Russian servicemen. What action should Russia take in this situation?

I hope an Ohio class sub doesn't nuke Moscow and claim it was an accident due to a malfunction LOL.

If Putin would survive that strike he would not retaliate and immediately accept any half-assed "apology" from his partners.

Sad but true. It is unfortunate for Russians Putin is their president. Shame.

ultimatewarrior wrote:
Sad but true. It is unfortunate for Russians Putin is their president. Shame.

He's done a pretty good job for Russians in general over his time in power. His measured response is probably fortunate for the rest of the World.

It may not resonate well with the military and those interested in Russian pride but Putin is well aware that Russia lost more dead in the An-26 crash in March, including a Major General, than this incident, let alone when the Red Army choir's plane went down last year.

It will be interesting to see, if indeed we do, what actions are actually taken as a result.

Isos wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/Syrian_SR/status/1042522656103383040

Video of a s-400 fire in syria furing the attack.

"Appears" = nothing.

ATLASCUB wrote:

Isos wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/Syrian_SR/status/1042522656103383040

Video of a s-400 fire in syria furing the attack.

"Appears" = nothing.

Could be anyplace.

Don't worry guys, Putin will show another scary 3D animation and NATO/Israel will be quaking in their boots