The problems with the TV7-117ST engine are quite severe. Reminds me of the issue with the MiG-23 engine where the engine shaft would bend and the blades break off destroying the engine. The engine will probably need to be redesigned.
So you say but reports I have read like this suggest otherwise:
The turboprop engine TV7-117ST-01 has received the type certificate
12.01.2023, 13:44
183
Photo by
United Engine Corporation (UEC)
Federal Air Transport Agency (Rosaviatsiya) has issued ODK-Klimov JSC with a Type Certificate for the TV7-117ST-01 engine. Obtaining a type certificate by the engine developer is an important step in the ongoing certification of the IL-114-300 aircraft, the agency’s press service said.
“The TV7-117ST-01 engine is an aviation turboprop engine with a free turbine, designed for use as part of the power plant of the IL-114-300 aircraft. It is based on the engine TV7-117S/SM, equipped with a modernized digital control unit BARK-65SM and adapted for the propeller AV112-114 development of NPP Aerosila, which is also undergoing certification, “- said in the message Rosaviatsiya.
Turboprop engines are divided into twin-shaft or free turbine and single-shaft. In the first case there is no mechanical connection between the gas generator and the transmission, the drive between the compressor turbine and the free turbine is only gas-dynamic. From the free turbine there is a separate shaft, which transmits the torque to the propeller through a reducer. In the second case, the turbine with the compressor and the propeller are on the same shaft.
The use of a free turbine has several advantages, including the possibility of operating the power unit of the aircraft on the ground as an auxiliary power unit – without the rotation of the propeller, with the working gas generator provides the aircraft with electricity and high pressure air for on-board systems.
The application of the axial centrifugal compressor, which combines the aerodynamic advantages of axial stages with high efficiency and centrifugal stages expanding the range of stable operation, is the best solution for small gas turbine engines with high thermodynamic cycle parameters. The annular counterflow combustion chamber, which is located around the turbine assembly, allowed to reduce the engine length, obtain good emission characteristics and low smoke level.
In the TV7-117 engine family, the turbine assembly is the result of compromises caused, in particular, by the small size of the turbine blades. The working blade of the first stage of the TV7-117 turbine is slightly larger than a thumbnail. Rotating at an enormous speed, such a part has to work for thousands of hours at the ambient gas temperature of one thousand and a half degrees. The corresponding technologies for manufacturing such parts have been developed by the engineers of ODK-Klimov together with the scientists of the Central Institute of Aviation Machine Building named after Baranov. Baranov Central Institute of Aviation Engineering and All-Russian Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Materials.
A digital twin has been created for the engine TV7-117ST-01 – the first and so far the only example in the industry of a comprehensive approach to complete formalization of the gas-turbine engine design process with a detailed description of all controlled parameters and target values and interconnection of all calculation models created during product design. The CD is a virtual model integrated into the production. It will store and reflect detailed information about the creation, existing parameters and operation of each manufactured engine. The system will enable virtual testing, propulsion system behavior prediction, and determination of which engine elements are more expedient to produce using additive technologies.
Upgraded power plant for IL-114-300 includes turboprop engine TV7-117ST-01, air propeller AV-112-114 with propeller regulator PSV-34S-114, automatic control system of FADEC type BARK-65STM and fuel system units. ODK-Klimov is planning to carry out certification activities in order to expand the engine performance as well as to certify a TV7-117ST-02 engine modification for use in the TVRS-44 Ladoga aircraft propulsion system.
https://ruavia.su/the-turboprop-engine-tv7-117st-01-has-received-the-type-certificate/
And also this:
UEC to produce seven TV7-117ST-02 turboprop engines for flight testing
03.07.2023, 18:24
157
TV7-117ST-02 turboprop engine. Photo by
UEC Klimov
ODK-Klimov is starting to manufacture bench samples of TV7-117ST-02 engines for testing. In December 2023, specialists from the St. Petersburg-based company will send two powerplants to be installed on the TVRS-44 Ladoga aircraft and to prepare the first prototype aircraft for the start of flight tests. This was reported by the press service of the United Engine Corporation.
The engines for the second aircraft will be handed over to the Ural Civil Aviation Plant in the spring of 2024. Three additional engines will also be prepared to go through the necessary stages for certification of the aircraft.
A total of seven propulsion systems required for the Ladoga regional turboprop programme will thus be manufactured by ODK-Klimov for flight testing. Also next year, the certification work on the engine will be completed and the company will move on to the start of serial production.
ODK-Klimov will launch serial production of the TV7-117ST-02 engines in 2025 with a volume of 25 power units per year, the ODK said.
The Comprehensive Plan for Development of the Aviation Industry till 2030 stipulates that the Ladoga aircraft will start being delivered to airlines in 2025. The Ural Civil Aviation Plant is expected to produce 15 aircraft in 2025 and, starting from 2026, will produce 25 planes a year.
But the company won’t be able to fulfill the program approved by the Russian government in 2025, and not a single Ladoga TVRS-44 will be delivered to its customers. UZGA calls the deadlines prescribed in the programme indicative and is guided by the deadlines set out in contracts with airlines – 2026-2027 depending on the operator.
https://ruavia.su/uec-to-produce-seven-tv7-117st-02-turboprop-engines-for-flight-testing/
So it seems the TV7-117ST-01 for the Il-114 is already certified, and the TV7-117ST-02 for the Baikal is not certified yet... according to these articles.
As for the Il-112V it is doubtful the existing wing would be strong enough for the PD-8. Both engines have widely different power and weight.
So a stronger wing is needed... oh, that makes it a completely different plane altogether...
Just for comparison the PD-8V turboshaft engine is expected to have 11500 hp while the TV7-117ST engine has 3500 hp. The PD-8 probably has like 3x the weight and 3x the power. It isn't just a matter of a small power increase.
....
IL-112V aircraft will receive PD-8 engine
19.07.2023, 11:37
243
Photo by
UAC
Light military transport aircraft IL-112V will be redesigned for turbojet engines PD-8. This is reported by RIA Novosti with reference to an informed source.
“The IL-112V design is planned to be redesigned for PD-8 jet engines. In particular, a number of changes will be made to the design of the aircraft’s wing, fuel system, other onboard systems,” the source said.The IL-112V was designed for TV7-117ST turboprop engines. After the crash of the aircraft in August 2021 near Kubinka airfield during one of the flights in preparation for the Army Forum, work on the aircraft was effectively frozen. The main cause of the crash was said to be the inability of the onboard fire-fighting system to extinguish the fire of the right engine, because of which the fire destroyed the aileron control rods, the aircraft became uncontrollable and crashed into the forest. The cause of the fire was not officially announced.
In June at SPIEF-2023, Denis Manturov, deputy prime minister and head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, said that the IL-112V will be modified, according to him,
technological changes will affect the design of the wing and engines.A special feature of the IL-112V is the wing, which is a caisson design, where instead of two separate consoles connected to the centre wing, a one-piece wing is designed. The two-lobed, riveted from aluminium alloys, it is attached from above to the fuselage with the help of power elements and special fasteners. Previously, such a wing design has not been used on domestic transport aircraft. This design solution was calculated to lighten the weight of the aircraft and improve its economic efficiency. The wing design uses honeycomb structures with cladding made of composite materials. The wing’s power caisson is sealed under the fuel tank.
To meet the high requirements for the take-off and landing performance of the aircraft and to modify the aerodynamic characteristics of the wing in flight, it is equipped with double-slotted flaps with fixed deflector, brake flaps, interceptors and ailerons. The maximum flap deflection angle is 40°. Ailerons with a relative spread of 30%, occupy the end parts of the wing consoles. Aileron deflection angles: up 25°, down 17°. Two-section brake flaps and one-section interceptors are located above the flaps. The maximum angle of deflection of the brake flaps is 40°. Interceptors are designed to automatically parry the roll of the aircraft in the event of failure of one of the engines during takeoff or departure on the second lap, and on the ground to reduce the length of the run. The deflection angles of the interceptors are up to 20° in aileron mode and up to 40° in brake mode.
Because of the wing’s innovativeness, VASO encountered difficulties when assembling and mounting it on the fuselage. The IL-112B wing has a wingspan of 27.6 metres. In October 2016, VASO specialists stated that the manufacture of such panels (20 metres each) is very difficult for the company and suggested changing the design of the wing to simplify the technology of its manufacture.
However, Ilyushin designers refused to do so, noting that it is impossible to redesign the wing.The IL-112V light military transport aircraft is designed to transport and airdrop personnel, weapons, light military equipment and other cargoes with a maximum weight of 5 tonnes. The IL-112V is to replace the retiring AN-26 fleet. The IL-112V with turboprop engines has a cruising speed of 470 kilometres per hour and a range of 1,200 kilometres with maximum load.
https://ruavia.su/il-112v-aircraft-will-receive-pd-8-engine/
Sounds like it is going to be jet powered and not turboprop powered, which means 8 tons of thrust per engine instead of 3,500hp... they could easily derate the engines to perhaps 6 tons or less if that was a problem.
The aircraft will need to be redesigned, and if they go with the turbofan engine, then they will likely also redesign the wing to have more sweep so the aircraft can have a higher cruise speed.
It is not clear they want higher flight speed. The excess power would be useful for getting airborne with heavier loads of payload and fuel from shorter strips, but I doubt it will be a lot faster with the extra power, nor will they need it to be.
And since you have 3x the power you will likely also increase the size of the aircraft to be able to carry more payload. Simple as that.
They don't need more payload, there are larger aircraft designs for that.
Why is the T7-117St such a shitty lemon, when its nothing revolutionary?
It seems to be bad from some sources and just fine from others.
There are at least two models and I would expect the one they are using for the Mil-38 will be different too as it is a gas turbine that turns rotors instead of props is different too.
One appears to be certified and two have yet to be certified but then hasn't the Mi-38 already been produced serially in small numbers or are they still working on it?
What does the TV-117 offer thats absolutely superior to the turboprops on the An-12(including its modern chinese copies).
The AN-12 is in a totally different weight class to the aircraft we are talking about, and unlike the Il-112V, the An-12 has four engines as well.
The likely replacement for the An-12 will probably be a jet in the form of the Il-276 or the Tu-330... or in my opinion preferably both.
Why dont the russians just start building AN-12s again with their original engines?
Because it is an old Soviet design that is now obsolete and making a new aircraft just makes sense even if it not easy.
They can't just make more An-12s because they don't have the suitable engines for the job just yet and when they do why not put them in a brand new airframe based on developments and advances of the last 40 years?
It is funny... you would be the first to complain if the next gen super tank turned out to be not the T-14 but a further upgraded T-72.
If they don't know how to develop and make new transport planes and airliners it is because they used to give that job to the Ukraine and Airbus and Boeing.
Making your own planes takes longer but in the long term leads to more permanent solutions where sanctions don't ground your fleet.
The Karakurt has garbage overcomplicated diesels from 1949, why cant russia just cope with newly built An-12s with the same engine as from 1970?
Because when they get it working they will have a relatively new engine working in multiple airframes in their fleet and having that commonality would be a good thing.
I have seen the designs from the 1990s for twin turbo prop aircraft from Sukhoi intended to replace the Su-25 by being cheaper and simpler and easier to repair in combat and to serially manufacture in enormous numbers even during war time... the engines were specifically helicopter engines already in use so there would be no problems with front line units of CAS aircraft and helicopters sharing engine parts and fuel and other equipment.
Back then they did not have the capabilities to do testing with computer simulations as you can do today. And the industry was in chaos, so it is not like they could just tinker with it until it worked ok, and build lots of physical prototypes to do parallel testing to figure out problems. The financing was just not there.
Funny you mention that because the articles above mention a digital twin version of the TV7-117ST design being used for testing and to assist development.
I mean gas turbines compnents from 1979 on the T-80BV are being mass produced produced, as well as replacement parts for the D-30 un unupgraded Il-76s, which use the same alloys as the Al-20 on the An-12so theres shouldnt be much of a problem to mass produce the Al-20 or Al-24VT.
The gas turbines of the T-80 from 1979 are not the 1,250hp engines they use today nor the 1,500hp engines they will be using in a year or two.
The D-30 has all sorts of new components added, as have the new generation engines of the PD series and the new engine for the Su-57.
Which is not the for the Al-20 which was made in Ukraine.
The PD family of engines goes from about a PD-6 or so up to a PD-50, which covers pretty much any sensible power range you might want... if they want to de-rate or uprate the new designs they are intended for that to be a feature of the design.
Home
Latest images
Register
Log in
Kiko
