Russian Navy: Status & News #2

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but it does not just boil down to what is cheaper.

In specific regions they will require specific capabilities... some times they need a Frigate or Destroyer sized vessel to do a specific job and smaller vessels wont de even if they work out cheaper.

Certainly a long range corvette with a decent medium calibre gun (ie 76.2mm or 100mm) plus some 30mm gatling guns for close in defence against high speed boats and of course a helo would be ideal for an anti piracy mission as long as there was a support ship with it to keep it supplied with fuel and food and ammo and fresh water... it could operate for long periods off the coast of Africa the same as a Frigate with lower operating and manning costs as well as only taking a corvette out of the available fleet rather than a larger vessel.

Equally however if you want to send a vessel into harms way it needs decent air defence and attack capability which most corvette sized vessels lack.

Different basing locations require different defence and attack capabilities, which is clearly being reflected in the variety of small boats going into service.

With larger boats they can put more sensors and weapons on board so they can be more multirole and just one vessel type can be used to cover a much wider range of duties.

With UKSK launchers and Redut a wider selection of attack and SAM weapons can be carried and can be selected with the mission in mind.

GarryB wrote:I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but it does not just boil down to what is cheaper.

In specific regions they will require specific capabilities... some times they need a Frigate or Destroyer sized vessel to do a specific job and smaller vessels wont de even if they work out cheaper.

Certainly a long range corvette with a decent medium calibre gun (ie 76.2mm or 100mm) plus some 30mm gatling guns for close in defence against high speed boats and of course a helo would be ideal for an anti piracy mission as long as there was a support ship with it to keep it supplied with fuel and food and ammo and fresh water... it could operate for long periods off the coast of Africa the same as a Frigate with lower operating and manning costs as well as only taking a corvette out of the available fleet rather than a larger vessel.

Equally however if you want to send a vessel into harms way it needs decent air defence and attack capability which most corvette sized vessels lack.

Different basing locations require different defence and attack capabilities, which is clearly being reflected in the variety of small boats going into service.

With larger boats they can put more sensors and weapons on board so they can be more multirole and just one vessel type can be used to cover a much wider range of duties.

With UKSK launchers and Redut a wider selection of attack and SAM weapons can be carried and can be selected with the mission in mind.

I definitely agree with you that frigates are necessary ( I said that in my post about Gorshkovs )

Gorshkov class frigate is literally the crown jewel of Russian fleet, first truly multirole ship that has enough size, range, tech and armament to handle anything without any compromise and it needs to be built in as large numbers as possible. I was just using it's price as benchmark when discussing 22800's price. For the record, price of Gorshkov class is also very good for what it offers.

But since it's production still hasn't started in full they need to use this ''big ship downtime'' to manufacture as many 22800s as they can because it offers a lot for a very good price, uses many shared systems with Gorshkov(eg. Kalibr system) and can be built quickly in large numbers. Shipyards need to be kept busy and these small ships can be built by many more shipyards than large ships.

22800 can also be used as sort of ''missile trucks'' for Gorshkov frigate. They can accompany them on combat deployment, fire their missile loads in first salvo and hightail out of there while frigates can stay and continue with their mission with  their full missile load ready. Like having small arsenal ships. Think of it as Varyag/Buyan-M today in Syria.

My point is: Gorshkov frigates and Karakurt 22800 corvettes are winning combo.

@@PapaDraon/GarryB


Let´s agree to disagree in that matter lads. As for specific roles for 22800 true they do not nee powerful AA defences and ASW ones but for self-defence or defence of escorted ships Paket anti-torpedoes would do great job. At worst  RBU launchers.

Actually 2xmore missiles then 22800 and ASW by lett displacement. 22800 is not going to be true blu wate rship anyway, soyes you can build small universal ship.

Taiwanese build Tuo Chiang-class corvette
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuo_Chiang-class_corvette

Type: Coastal Corvette
Displacement: 567 tonnes full load [2][3]
Length: 60.4 m (198 ft)(Length on cushion)
Beam: 14 m (46 ft)
Draught: 2.3 m (7.5 ft)
Propulsion: 4 x MJP CSU 850 waterjet
Speed: 43 knots (80 km/h) (fully armed)
Complement: 41(including officers)
Sensors and
processing systems:
Navigational Radar
CS/SPG-6N(S) Surface Search Radar
CS/SPG-6N(T) Fire Control Radar
Variable Depth Sonar
Electronic warfare
& decoys: 12 counter-IR/RF chaff dispensers (6 bow and stern)[4]
Armament:
              8 × Hsiung Feng II
              8 × Hsiung Feng III
              1 × Otobreda 76 mm
              1 × Phalanx CIWS
              2 × 12.7mm Browning M2HB
              2 × Mark 32 triple torpedo launcher (one port and one starboard)[4]
Aviation facilities: Flight deck,[4] primarily for VERTREP

GunshipDemocracy wrote:@@PapaDraon/GarryB


Let´s agree to disagree in that matter lads. As for specific roles for 22800 true they do not nee powerful AA defences and ASW ones but for self-defence or defence of escorted ships Paket anti-torpedoes would do great job. At worst  RBU launchers.

Actually 2xmore missiles then 22800 and ASW by lett displacement. 22800 is not going to be true blu wate rship anyway, soyes you can build small universal ship.

Taiwanese build Tuo Chiang-class corvette
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuo_Chiang-class_corvette
........................

No problem buddy, we all have our own vision of the future here.

But I just need to get this out of my system (sorry if I'm a drag):

Both Visby and Tuo Chiang are nice boats but they both have very short range anti ship missiles (Hsiung Feng III has 200km at most)

Compare it to Onix with 600km according to wiki.

Looks like Rusian Navy simply puts greater priority on fighting surface ships and land targets for this class.




I noticed that Visby had half it's projected weapons canceled along with last ship in class (5 built in total) ant Taiwan is still stuck on just one Tuo Chiang.

Seems that naval shipbuilding is problematic in more places than just Russia...

PapaDragon wrote: No problem buddy, we all have our own vision of the future here.

as long as only mine is right one

PapaDragon wrote:
But I just need to get this out of my system (sorry if I'm a drag):

Both Visby and Tuo Chiang are nice boats but they both have very short range anti ship missiles (Hsiung Feng III has 200km at most).  Compare it to Onix with 600km according to wiki.
Looks like Rusian Navy simply puts greater priority on fighting surface ships and land targets for this class.

Indeed Russians put more weight for long range punch.  Never the less almost 50% bigger displacement means 12 tons more weight can be easily carried by ship without sacrificing on other ASW/AA systems. Nevertheless both Black/Mediterranean there is enough of NAT subs to mak e problems for defenceless 22800 ships.
those were to be a stopgap for frigates.  I provided 2 examples that shipswith small displacements (600t class)can have all.  At least on basic level.


BTW Kalibr export version range is 220 km

PapaDragon wrote:
I noticed that Visby had half it's projected weapons canceled along with last ship in class (5 built in total) ant Taiwan is still stuck on just one Tuo Chiang. Seems that naval shipbuilding is problematic in more places than just Russia...  

Guess teething pains and in case of Swedes budget cuts before Russian subs started invade Sweden

A different view on this. Quite a big article at link. Even FA has picked it up, that should be good for a smile as the US was/is a bit wary of the Akula (link provided for amusement purposes)!!!

Russia applying yet more pressure on the US defence budget.

Russia’s defense industry is mulling over the revival of the Soviet-designed Alpha concept of a maximally robotic, nuclear-powered attack submarine with a radically reduced crew, completely revised and based on 21st-century technology.

Russian naval experts believe the time has come for a reincarnation of highly automated, essentially robotic nuclear submarines that would take deployment of this craft to a new dimension. “We have a two-decade experience of running [highly automated] 705 Lyra subs in the 1970s-1990s,” a source working in the military-industrial area told the media outlet Lenta.ru. Describing the Soviet project as “highly ambitious,” the source pointed out that it was exactly the “concentration of ultra-modern technologies in one vessel” that made

Alpha submarines so complicated for operation. The leap that technology has made since the project first appeared, however, would make a robotic nuclear sub a much more reliable and crew-friendly vessel, the source claimed.

https://www.rt.com/news/333517-robotic-submarine-project-considered/

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/russia-may-revive-its-ultra-high-performance-alfa-class-1761291246

JohninMK wrote:A different view on this. Quite a big article at link. Even FA has picked it up, that should be good for a smile as the US was/is a bit wary of the Akula (link provided for amusement purposes)!!!

Thx, pressure is so big thet they copied creative approach towards description from Russian journos: complement will shrink from original 55 to 30ish.

Well Sierra I/II (Barracuda 945/945/A) had compliment 55 and displacement 7600t vs 32 and 2300t respectively for Alpha (Lira 705). So guess there is going to be a monster with mixed sub-DNA

http://kerzak-1.livejournal.com/1871734.html

Lot of pictures of new vessels and new helicopter carrier.

Militarov wrote:

What's exactly going on here?

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Militarov wrote:

What's exactly going on here?

Its warning issued by NOTAM about exercise/activity on sea, including Russian navy exercise. You can figure out most of it by reading the legend.

"Yaroslav Mudry" has successfully passed the mooring trials after repair of turbine

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1768515.html

But they have capital ships and seem to be planning to give them at least minor upgrades to keep them operational until something new can be built.

They have corvettes with more fire power than any previous Russian surface vessel... no Soviet ship had the capacity to launch 8 land attack cruise missiles with nuclear or conventional warheads.

those same corvettes could have anti sub rockets or supersonic and soon hypersonic missiles as alternatives too...

The simple fact is that if they had built capital ships first they would now have a poorly balanced fleet as it is the smaller and auxiliary vessels that need replacing first... larger ships can remain operational for much longer and have more space for upgrades... and considering the size and weight of all the old electronics and equipment being replaced with modern compact electronics and systems performance should be greatly improved at minimal cost

Thanks Zardof

They are just anticipating the introduction of a new blue water navy. A lot of auxiliary ships, frigates, SNA, corvettes for the up-commming aircraft carrier and Liders. They are doing it step by step.


I want to share this picture I just found on a French forum. http://forummarine.forumactif.com/f4-russie-union-sovietique
It's a rench forum but they have lot of pictures taken by French personnel at sea. Even if you don't understand what they say, you can lookt at pictures.

Soon

RuN Warship & Sub under construction

http://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/125934.html

AK-Rex wrote:Soon

Introduce yourself here pls:
https://www.russiadefence.net/f6-member-introductions-and-rules

Ru nuclear sub spoted near french cost.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20160310/russian-subs-and-fighter-jets-doing-off-the-french-coast

Creating a 561 emergency rescue center of the Russian Navy in Sevastopol









http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/621526.html

"Russia's Defense Ministry is seeking to buy five dolphins, and is willing pay up to 1.75 million rubles ($25,000) for them, according to an ad posted Wednesday on the government procurement website. The ministry is specifically looking for bottlenose dolphins, two females and three males, aged between three and five years, ranging in body length from 2.3 meters to 2.7 meters, all healthy and exhibiting “motional activity,” the description on the Zakupki.gov.ru website said. The dolphins will be used for the “needs of the Defense Ministry,” the ad said, without specifying what the ministry planned to do with the animals.

Documents to be submitted by bidders must include a certificate demonstrating that the dolphins had been caught within the past two years, and listing the time, place and means of the capture, the documents accompanying the ad said. Capturing bottlenose dolphins must comply with regulations on catching sea mammals for “scientific, research, cultural, educational and other non-commercial purposes,” and those who catch them must hold a license for capturing animals from endangered species, the documents said.



“Capture of bottlenose dolphins must be conducted in the presence of a veterinarian specializing in marine mammals, while transportation of dolphins must be conducted by freight carriers in baths with seawater,” documents said. The dolphins for the Defense Ministry will be transported to Sevastopol, according to the documents. The port city is the base of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, located on the Crimea peninsula, which Russia annexed from Ukraine in 2014. Bottlenose dolphins are the best-known and most common members of the oceanic dolphin family, renowned for their cognitive ability and curiosity about interacting with humans."

Source: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/562175.html

i have read somewhere that dolphins in USSR in 80s were trained to destroy ships

George1 wrote:i have read somewhere that dolphins in USSR in 80s were trained to destroy ships

They did have dolphin training programme in Crimea, it went out of funds during 90s, Ukrainians kept their till like 2000. and then sold dolphins to Iran together with chief trainer. And then they restarted it in 2012. with 1 dolphin apparently which is now in Russian hands in Crimea.

However dolphins are mostly used to detect enemy saboteur divers, to find mines and explosive charges and to catch enemy divers and drag them to shore or boat with special hook. Also to recover items from sea. To destroy ship you need significant amount of explosive even animals strong like dolphins would struggle with it.

"RESEARCH VESSEL "YEVGENIY GORIGLEDZHAN" TO BE LAID DOWN AT SHIPYARD
March 16, 2016

At 12:00 on March 19, a keel-laying ceremony for Project 02670 oceanographic research vessel (OIS) "Yevgeniy Gorigledzhan" will take place at Yantar Shipyard.

Expected to attend the ceremony are representatives of regional authorities, Russian Federation Ministry of Defense's Main Directorate for Deep Sea Research, Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau, and relatives of Yevgeniy Gorigledzhan. OIS "Yevgeniy Gorigledzhan" will be built by repairing and converting the "MB-305" rescue tug (Szczecin Shipyard, 1983). Yantar Shipyard signed a corresponding contract with the RF Ministry of Defense in mid-February of this year. The vessel, intended for the Russian Federation Ministry of Defense's Main Directorate for Deep Sea Research, will be delivered to the customer in 2017.

Project 02670 was developed by Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau. The vessel is designed for conducting undersea technical operations, ecological monitoring of the marine environment, oceanographic mapping of the seabed, and rendering assistance to search and rescue forces. The vessel will carry undersea and rescue vehicles. The vessel will displace 4,000 tons, have a length of 81 meters and a beam of 16 meters, an endurance of 30 days, a crew of 32 and up to 25 mission personnel.

Gorigledzhan Yevgeniy Alekseyevich (March 19, 1934 - September 26, 2014) was a Soviet and Russian design engineer, general designer of special-purpose nuclear-powered submarines at Rubin Central Design Bureau of Marine Technology, RF State Prize recipient, and Shipbuilder Emeritus."

Source: http://7fbtk.blogspot.rs/2016/03/xlt-new-gugi-oceanographic-research.html