Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Share
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10511
    Points : 10988
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:46 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:Hi does anyone know of any of the average costs of bombs, missiles etc and how they compare to there western counterparts, i would expect as normal is the case that the Russian equivalent will be cheaper. any info would be great

    even in the site of tactical missiles corp. there isnt any info for costs, but it has feedback if you ant to try

    http://eng.ktrv.ru/conference_eng/


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16510
    Points : 17116
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:58 am

    Actually for the prices of conventional bombs and rockets you would be better to look to companies like Bazalt... http://bazalt.ru/en/



    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    nastle77

    Posts : 195
    Points : 255
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    R-24R and R-24T

    Post  nastle77 on Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:47 pm

    I just wanted to confirm the ranges for these missiles

    The information I have is only for R-23R and R-23T which were 35 km an 15 km respectively, I'm assuming the R-24 had longer ranges ?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16510
    Points : 17116
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:15 am

    Just from memory the 35 and 15km ranges were head on lock on ranges based on the seeker performance.

    Obviously a receeding target could be engaged at greater ranges because of better IR view of engines with the IR guided model.

    i seem to remember the head on engagement range of the radar homing R-24 as being something like 55km or so.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Austin

    Posts : 6327
    Points : 6727
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Austin on Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:23 pm

    I was having discussion with colleague in BRF and it seems Russia has not ordered the R-27 yet , most of the picture of Su-27 even in Syria is shown with R-27 and not R-77 , so it true that RuAF has not ordered R-77 ?

    Also it seems R-77 has design issues ?

    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6806&start=3920#p1909818
    avatar
    Stealthflanker

    Posts : 800
    Points : 882
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 29
    Location : Indonesia

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:45 pm

    Austin wrote:I was having discussion with colleague in BRF and it seems Russia has not ordered the R-27 yet , most of the picture of Su-27 even in Syria is shown with R-27 and not R-77 , so it true that RuAF has not ordered R-77 ?

    Yes.


    I am not sure about that "reliability and engineering problem" Given that our own flanker (Indonesian) Also used R-77 and successfully tested it.

    One thing however.. Carlo Kopp stated that the 9B-1348 seeker for R-77 using Texas Instrument Digital signal processor chip (TMS-320) Perhaps that could be the problem.
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3220
    Points : 3306
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  medo on Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:46 pm

    Austin wrote:I was having discussion with colleague in BRF and it seems Russia has not ordered the R-27 yet , most of the picture of Su-27 even in Syria is shown with R-27 and not R-77 , so it true that RuAF has not ordered R-77 ?

    Also it seems R-77 has design issues ?

    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6806&start=3920#p1909818



    Russia have ordered R-77-1 missiles and first missiles will be delivered to RuAF in this year. As you could see on the photo, operational Su-35 regiment already have launch adapters for R-77-1 missiles. Most probably Su-35 and Su-30SM units will be the first equipped with those missiles. I think we will more often see them next year, when RuAF will receive larger number of them.

    If you ask specifically for R-77 missiles, than answer is no, RuAF didn't order R-77 missiles, they order R-77-1 missiles.
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7252
    Points : 7546
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:58 pm

    medo wrote:
    Austin wrote:I was having discussion with colleague in BRF and it seems Russia has not ordered the R-27 yet , most of the picture of Su-27 even in Syria is shown with R-27 and not R-77 , so it true that RuAF has not ordered R-77 ?

    Also it seems R-77 has design issues ?

    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6806&start=3920#p1909818



    Russia have ordered R-77-1 missiles and first missiles will be delivered to RuAF in this year. As you could see on the photo, operational Su-35 regiment already have launch adapters for R-77-1 missiles. Most probably Su-35 and Su-30SM units will be the first equipped with those missiles. I think we will more often see them next year, when RuAF will receive larger number of them.

    If you ask specifically for R-77 missiles, than answer is no, RuAF didn't order R-77 missiles, they order R-77-1 missiles.

    What are the differences? R-77-1 uses Russian made components?
    avatar
    jhelb

    Posts : 433
    Points : 500
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  jhelb on Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:16 pm

    medo wrote:Russia have ordered R-77-1 missiles and first missiles will be delivered to RuAF in this year.

    Seeker upgrade for the Izdeliye 170-1(R-77-1) is not yet over, so it is unlikely to be delivered this year.
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3220
    Points : 3306
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  medo on Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:46 pm

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1448231.html

    http://lenta.ru/news/2015/08/26/raketa/

    R-77-1 are already in production and Russian MoD ordered them. Missiles are fully Russian without components from Ukraine. They said to have a problem with a seeker for short range AAM, not for R-77-1.

    Austin

    Posts : 6327
    Points : 6727
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Austin on Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:58 pm

    Thanks so no R-77 but R-77-1

    Did RuAF have R-27AE active radar variant ?
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3220
    Points : 3306
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  medo on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:27 pm

    Austin wrote:Thanks so no R-77 but R-77-1

    Did RuAF have R-27AE active radar variant ?

    Difficult to say. Officially not, but externally R-27AE is the same as R-27ER, so they could easily hide them behind R-27ER.

    Austin

    Posts : 6327
    Points : 6727
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Austin on Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:41 am

    So why were they exporting R-77 when their own force didn't buy one
    avatar
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4489
    Points : 4662
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:53 am

    Austin wrote:So why were they exporting R-77 when their own force didn't buy one

    What makes you think the export missile is the same as the domestic missile?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16510
    Points : 17116
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:29 am

    Up until recently there haven't been that many Russian Air Force aircraft that could use R-77 that were actually in service in numbers (as opposed to prototypes and sales models trotted out for air shows).

    The MiG-29SM and MiG-29SMT and the Su-27SM and Su-30SM, plus Su-34 and Su-35 would be able to carry them but for the vast majority of in service aircraft like the MiG-29 and Su-27P they were not compatible.

    The R-27 is not a bad weapon that has a very wide variety of types and is cheap and would be effective enough.

    even with the introduction of R-77 and later missiles I suggest the R-27ET will remain in use as there doesn't seem to be a long range IR guided alternative so far...

    Note both the R-37 and R-77 have hydraulic rams built into their launch pylons to allow conformal and internal launch positions... the missile is thrown down clear of the aircraft before the missiles rocket motor is started to prevent the airflow around the aircraft fuselage and wings from blowing the missile back up into the aircraft doing damage on launch.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10511
    Points : 10988
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:43 pm

    Aerial Missiles That Protect Russian Bombers in Syria Revealed (Photos)


    R-73 missile


    R-27ER missile

    Su-30SM fighters, which are part of Russia’s anti-ISIL campaign in Syria, are armed with R-73 short-range and R-27R medium-to-long-range air-to-air missiles, representatives of the Russian Air Force told journalists at the Hmeymim airbase in Latakia.

    The Russian airstrike group in Syria includes Sukhoi Su-24s, Su-25s and Su-34s, as well as several Su-30SM fighters. The main objective of these fighter jets is to protect Russian bombers, striking ISIL positions in the air, from possible enemy fighters.

    For this purpose the Sukhoi fighter jets are armed with R-73 and R-27R (and its modification R-27ER) air-to-air missiles. Each plane can carry 12 of these deadly missiles, but usually Russian fighters carry six of them for greater maneuverability.

    The R-73 short-range air-to-air missiles are designed for close-range aerial combat, with a range of no more than 30 kilometers. The R-73 missile is equipped with an infrared-homing (heat-seeking) head that provides extreme precision when hitting targets. Pilots can fire R-73 missiles using a helmet-mounted sight (HMS) system of targeting.

    In addition to the short-range missiles, Su-30SM flankers are equipped with R-27R and R-27ER medium-to-long-range missiles. The R-27R and R-27ER missiles can be used between 20 and 27,000 meters altitude and are equipped with an active-radar-homing head that allows the missile to find and track its targets autonomously. Active-radar-homing missiles are extremely accurate and have one of the best kill probabilities among all modern air-to-air missiles.

    Russia launched an airstrike campaign aimed at assisting the Damascus-led forces in their fight against extremist groups in Syria, including Islamic State, following a request from the government of Bashar al-Assad.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20151019/1028776200/air-to-air-missiles-su-30-syria.html#ixzz3p33f8nth


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    nastle77

    Posts : 195
    Points : 255
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  nastle77 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:44 am

    George1 wrote:Aerial Missiles That Protect Russian Bombers in Syria Revealed (Photos)


    R-73 missile


    R-27ER missile

    Su-30SM fighters, which are part of Russia’s anti-ISIL campaign in Syria, are armed with R-73 short-range and R-27R medium-to-long-range air-to-air missiles, representatives of the Russian Air Force told journalists at the Hmeymim airbase in Latakia.

    The Russian airstrike group in Syria includes Sukhoi Su-24s, Su-25s and Su-34s, as well as several Su-30SM fighters. The main objective of these fighter jets is to protect Russian bombers, striking ISIL positions in the air, from possible enemy fighters.

    For this purpose the Sukhoi fighter jets are armed with R-73 and R-27R (and its modification R-27ER) air-to-air missiles. Each plane can carry 12 of these deadly missiles, but usually Russian fighters carry six of them for greater maneuverability.

    The R-73 short-range air-to-air missiles are designed for close-range aerial combat, with a range of no more than 30 kilometers. The R-73 missile is equipped with an infrared-homing (heat-seeking) head that provides extreme precision when hitting targets. Pilots can fire R-73 missiles using a helmet-mounted sight (HMS) system of targeting.

    In addition to the short-range missiles, Su-30SM flankers are equipped with R-27R and R-27ER medium-to-long-range missiles. The R-27R and R-27ER missiles can be used between 20 and 27,000 meters altitude and are equipped with an active-radar-homing head that allows the missile to find and track its targets autonomously. Active-radar-homing missiles are extremely accurate and have one of the best kill probabilities among all modern air-to-air missiles.

    Russia launched an airstrike campaign aimed at assisting the Damascus-led forces in their fight against extremist groups in Syria, including Islamic State, following a request from the government of Bashar al-Assad.    

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20151019/1028776200/air-to-air-missiles-su-30-syria.html#ixzz3p33f8nth

    when did the full scale production of R-73 start and approx. how many were made by 1990 ?
    Thanks

    nastle77

    Posts : 195
    Points : 255
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  nastle77 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:45 am

    WHat is the max engagement range of R-60M front and rear aspect ?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16510
    Points : 17116
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:27 am

    First of all that picture of the R-73 is a dummy version.... the white missile with black stripes indicates that.

    And by definition the R-27R and R-27ER are SARH missiles.... that is what the second R means in both designations... ie R= in service air to air missile, -27 means model 27, while the last R means SARH, while the E is the extended range model with larger rocket motor (note the image of the R-27 shows the R-27ER.

    The IR guided version of R-27 and R-27E has the same IR seeker as the R-73, and any weapon can be aimed using the helmet mounted sight...

    when did the full scale production of R-73 start and approx. how many were made by 1990 ?
    Thanks

    From memory full scale production started about the mid 1980s and they were made in very large numbers.

    WHat is the max engagement range of R-60M front and rear aspect ?

    AFAIK the max head on range is about 10km and the tail launch range is about 4km for subsonic targets.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 820
    Points : 818
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:11 am

    Does someone know how many R-77 have been received or ordered by RuAF ?
    avatar
    Berkut

    Posts : 190
    Points : 215
    Join date : 2015-05-05

    Does someone know how many R-77 have been received or ordered by RuAF ?

    Post  Berkut on Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:10 pm

    Isos wrote:Does someone know how many R-77 have been received or ordered by RuAF ?

    We know contract value but not the number of missiles. Roughly 1000 of them spread mostly for this year and next.

    marat

    Posts : 155
    Points : 157
    Join date : 2015-04-26

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  marat on Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:13 pm

    Berkut wrote:
    Isos wrote:Does someone know how many R-77 have been received or ordered by RuAF ?

    We know contract value but not the number of missiles. Roughly 1000 of them spread mostly for this year and next.

    And value is?
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2968
    Points : 2999
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  max steel on Wed May 25, 2016 11:30 pm

    How difficult is to intercept and air-air missile with another air-air missile. I heard claims such as the IRIS-T and R-77 series are advertised to intercept enemy air-air missiles and surface-air missiles. US is also making the SACM/MSD to take out enemy air-air missile.

    Any info on SACM vs R-77 comparison ?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16510
    Points : 17116
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 26, 2016 12:33 pm

    Well you are talking about an Air to Air missile designed to hit an aircraft size target being used against a target that when flying end on is smaller than a dinner plate, and generally flying much faster than most aircraft fly at most of the time.

    Part of the issue is concentrating fragments and blast at such a small target to be effective, and of course actually targeting the target in the first place with its very small RCS.

    Of course missiles like the upcoming 9M100 Morfei is designed from the outset to be used in the CIWS role for the navy and a short range SHORAD for the Army and short range lock on after launch AAM for the air force so it would be ideal as a small light short range anti missile missile that should be able to be carried in significant numbers due to its small size and design from the outset to be carried internally in a weapon bay or vertical launch tube.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2968
    Points : 2999
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  max steel on Thu May 26, 2016 6:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:Well you are talking about an Air to Air missile ......

    Are you talking about SACM or R-77 ?

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Air-to-Air missiles

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:28 pm