Vietnam War 1964-1975

Interesting to see such massive losses of the Communists when entering Saigon.
It seems that propaganda aside, their invasion was probably a meat grinder.

Some destroyed NVA tanks.

What voltage in Vietnam? What happens if electric cables drop on a tank?

ARVN grunts, many were probably unmotivated but few stood and fought quite well.

NVA platoon was KO'd just outside the Tan Sonh airport, which was the last strong point of the ARVN and last hub out of Saigon. Sections of the city were grinders for the ARVN with many killed by civilians or Viet Vo/Cong. Other sections like the Quang trung Area were hotbeds for the ARVN with many delaying attacks.

More destroyed/captured NVA tanks.

CSAR

Various AFVs and soldiers in action.
Sheridan, Patton, Centurion and Duster.

Many of previous pictures, AFAIK, aren't from the Saigon liberation. Burning T-54/55s are from the An Loc battle, Easter Offensive 1972. The PT-76s are maybe from the Lang Vei battle, 1968, or Ben Het attack, 1969. Afaik, the Saigon's liberation in 1975 was much less bloody (relatively to that "Vietnam war criteria" ....) than what you could think.

Giulio wrote:Many of previous pictures, AFAIK, aren't from the Saigon liberation. Burning T-54/55s are from the An Loc battle, Easter Offensive 1972. The PT-76s are maybe from the Lang Vei battle, 1968, or Ben Het attack, 1969. Afaik, the Saigon's liberation in 1975 was much less bloody (relatively to that "Vietnam war criteria" ....) than what you could think.

Oh yeah I know they're not all from 1975 Saigon. But that junction incident with 3 knocked out T-55s proves how ARVN could be lethal if they wanted.

Yes, it proves that any idiot can press a button against a stationary tank in a crossroads. Afaik, in An Loc, an incorrect artillery barrage formed a pile of debris in city roads, that made difficult to advance for NVA armoured forces and more easy the ARVN defense. The Easter offensive was a military failure for the NVA, but a totally victory in the extending of the total Viet Cong control in the South.
At that point, the NVA and VC troops still fought for their Country, the ARVN troops fought for a TV or a refrigerator. Who win?

Giulio wrote:Yes, it proves that any idiot can press a button against a stationary tank in a crossroads. Afaik, in An Loc, an incorrect artillery barrage formed a pile of debris in city roads, that made difficult to advance for NVA armoured forces and more easy the ARVN defense. The Easter offensive was a military failure for the NVA, but a totally victory in the extending of the total Viet Cong control in the South.
At that point, the NVA and VC troops still fought for their Country, the ARVN troops fought for a TV or a refrigerator. Who win?

It takes great skill to massacre T-55s like that but also shows NVA being clueless on certain aspects of warfare. Ultimately with the fall of USSR Vietnam basically lost the ideological and economic war. They also got robbed in terms of their EEZ by China. Which to this day presents a huge loss for them. Fighting someone else's war and winning in the south in 1975 did not really win much for them as people, other than more land in a destroyed country that followed a suicidal system: communism. They'd be better off if they followed the ROK path to success (which after tough times in the 80s, did deliver).

I know it's hard to comprehend how what seemed as a victory, ultimately resulted in Vietnam loosing in terms of prosperity and sovereignty.

KiloGolf wrote:

Giulio wrote:Many of previous pictures, AFAIK, aren't from the Saigon liberation. Burning T-54/55s are from the An Loc battle, Easter Offensive 1972. The PT-76s are maybe from the Lang Vei battle, 1968, or Ben Het attack, 1969. Afaik, the Saigon's liberation in 1975 was much less bloody (relatively to that "Vietnam war criteria" ....) than what you could think.

Oh yeah I know they're not all from 1975 Saigon. But that junction incident with 3 knocked out T-55s proves how ARVN could be lethal if they wanted.

It's more complicated, an ambush is always a nasty surprise, but in this case the ARVN couldn't even fight for their life, stocks were very low and the NVA had already cut the Western Part of the City.

What makes sense is that ARVN would protect and delay the fall of their way out. It's like losing a dozen of T34-85 on the Unter Ter Linden avenue, nothing that could stop the fall of the 3rd Reich.

KiloGolf wrote:

Giulio wrote:Yes, it proves that any idiot can press a button against a stationary tank in a crossroads. Afaik, in An Loc, an incorrect artillery barrage formed a pile of debris in city roads, that made difficult to advance for NVA armoured forces and more easy the ARVN defense. The Easter offensive was a military failure for the NVA, but a totally victory in the extending of the total Viet Cong control in the South.
At that point, the NVA and VC troops still fought for their Country, the ARVN troops fought for a TV or a refrigerator. Who win?

It takes great skill to massacre T-55s like that but also shows NVA being clueless on certain aspects of warfare. Ultimately with the fall of USSR Vietnam basically lost the ideological and economic war. They also got robbed in terms of their EEZ by China. Which to this day presents a huge loss for them. Fighting someone else's war and winning in the south in 1975 did not really win much for them as people, other than more land in a destroyed country that followed a suicidal system: communism. They'd be better off if they followed the ROK path to success (which after tough times in the 80s, did deliver).

I know it's hard to comprehend how what seemed as a victory, ultimately resulted in Vietnam loosing in terms of prosperity and sovereignty.

Vietnam was already under transformation since the mid-80's. NVA's losses around the airport were par for the course.

Just let's not forget that the US has recognized the grave dichotomy between tactical and strategic sucesses all tempered by the time needed and circumstances.

For instance the Soviet retreat and US intervention in Stan were in hindsight huge mistakes and defeats. While the Vietnamese liberation campaign a huge victory even for the US, in hindsight.

J.F. Keiler wrote: "The Marine Corps’ military operations in urban terrain doctrine recognizes that tactical success does not necessarily translate to strategic victory. It notes the Israeli’s tactical victory in Beirut was a strategic defeat—and observes the same about the Battle of Hue in the Vietnam War, when Marines defeated an enemy that sought to put up a good fight but never expected to win. Much the same can be said of Fallujah’s defenders. In spite of the beating they took in November, they will continue to assert they repelled the initial attack and fought well thereafter."

Vietnam War Most Embarrassing Defeat in American History.

It is hard to imagine that a country like the United States with a tremendous military capabilities that can be defeated in a war, but the United States and its allies have NATO military forces and the most advanced weapons systems at the time.

Beginning in 1957 Vietnam war U.S involvement, gradually America sent troops to help Vietnam at that time it was colonized by the French. In 1965 there was a split between the Republic of Vietnam (South) and the Democratic Vietnam (North).

The Vietnam War was originally a civil war between the Republic of Vietnam (South) and the Democratic Vietnam (North), but because of Vietnam war U.S involvement the Republic of Vietnam (South), the Democratic Vietnam (North) felt aggrieved and decided to ask for help to the USSR (Union Soviet, now Russian).

Vietnam War Start.

This was the beginning of a war between the two countries Superpower between America and the Soviet Union. War who risked Politics, Ideology, and Also the honor of the nation as a superpower country. Democratic Vietnam (North) that accompanied the American alliance, Australia, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and the Philippines, Began to fight with the Democratic Vietnam (North) allies by the Soviet Union, China, and North Korea.



And when the climax in 1968 with 1.2 million southern alliance military forces Began pounding the northern alliance that only the 520,000 military forces, but in this case the forces of South alliance that tried to attack towards the north a little bit shocked, especially for the allied Because forces they must pass through the Forest wild muddy, swamp Also full of Crocodiles, snakes, and other wild aquatic animals, as well as mountainous terrain that is totally under Reviews their control. It is utilized by the northern alliance to surround and slaughter all-out South alliance troops and allies.

Vietnam War Deaths

Many troops from South alliance were killed, wounded, or Became prisoners of the Northern alliance troops. Most of the troops were killed, wounded, or detained are American military forces. During the 5 years of the troops from South alliance of continuous defeat and lost a lot of soldiers.

“Vietnam war U.S involvement be a bad experience in American history”

States use a variety of ways to win the war in Vietnam. Including holding a number of covert operations to manipulate the weather in the area of ​​combat.

From March 1967 until July 1972, the US military spent more than 3 million US dollars to carry out top secreet operations in Southeast Asia. The aim is to extend the rainy season and flooding the Ho Chi Minh Trail, the system supplies used by the enemy in Vietnam.

American hopes high intensity rainfall and flooding to cause landslides, washed river crossings, or at least interfere with the movement of North Vietnamese forces. It was the first large scale effort that manipulate the weather for military purposes. And to this day it is unclear Whether that tactic worked well. The program goes by many names. Once referred to as Operation Popeye, Motorpool Operations and Operations Intermediary-Compatriot. Operation Passwords should always be changed to avoid leakage.



But whatever the name, this operation could be considered ambitious. States should lend a hand gods to govern nature. And in a strange way, some American troops saw it as a more effective way than by dropping bombs. “Make mud, not war,” is the official title of an Air Force pilot who perform these missions.

The project was undertaken by seeding the clouds above countries such as Laos and Vietnam with silver iodide. About 2,000 flights performed during the program that runs five years.

James Rodger Fleming, author of Fixing the Sky: The Checkered History of Weather and Climate Control explains that it is not clear how successful this program. But if there is something that everyone can agree upon, it is that the program makes it difficult for the military to experiment with tactics like in the future:

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Source : militaryword.com

KiloGolf wrote:

Giulio wrote:Yes, it proves that any idiot can press a button against a stationary tank in a crossroads. Afaik, in An Loc, an incorrect artillery barrage formed a pile of debris in city roads, that made difficult to advance for NVA armoured forces and more easy the ARVN defense. The Easter offensive was a military failure for the NVA, but a totally victory in the extending of the total Viet Cong control in the South.
At that point, the NVA and VC troops still fought for their Country, the ARVN troops fought for a TV or a refrigerator. Who win?

It takes great skill to massacre T-55s like that but also shows NVA being clueless on certain aspects of warfare. Ultimately with the fall of USSR Vietnam basically lost the ideological and economic war. They also got robbed in terms of their EEZ by China. Which to this day presents a huge loss for them. Fighting someone else's war and winning in the south in 1975 did not really win much for them as people, other than more land in a destroyed country that followed a suicidal system: communism. They'd be better off if they followed the ROK path to success (which after tough times in the 80s, did deliver).

I know it's hard to comprehend how what seemed as a victory, ultimately resulted in Vietnam loosing in terms of prosperity and sovereignty.

Let Vietnamese decide their own fate: fighting for independence and freedom, that's all. Don't interfere and everybody's happy.

Lost by the U.S. Battles of the Vietnam War, 1963-1975


"One theme presented by supporters of the American empire is the U.S. military is invincible and can never lose unless stabbed in the back by impatient politicians. They claim the U.S. military never lost a battle during the entire Vietnam war. On August 30, 2011, President Barack Obama proclaimed to a gathering of veterans: "But let it be remembered that you won every major battle of that war. Every single one." Vietnam vet Senator John McCain repeated this lie in a 2013 article in the "Wall Street Journal." This myth was disputed by America's most decorated officer of that war, Col. David Hackworth, in his book "About Face." The U.S. military had every advantage, yet mistakes were made and battles lost. Internet research turns up these 101 lost battles of the Vietnam war:
(...).
This proves that many battles were lost during the Vietnam war. There were more, but hiding embarrassing losses is standard procedure in any military organization. This is shown in that documentary about the Battle of Ong Thanh, where survivors tell how commanders tried to spin that loss as a victory, while the loss of FSB Ripcord was hidden from the public until 1985, and the slaughter at Ho Bo Woods wasn't recognized until 2011. This list does not include most battles lost by the Army of South Vietnam, whose forces were supported by American firepower.
(...).
In the late 1990s, American political spinmasters created an urban legend that former North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap admitted they had lost the war on the battlefield. There is no factual basis for this claim, yet this myth remains.
(...)."


http://www.g2mil.com/lost_vietnam.htm


At least 101 battles.

The definition of win was more enemy killed than allies killed in combat... the obvious question to ask is how often they came out winners because they counted all Vietnamese dead as enemy or only those armed as enemy combatants.


In fact how often did they come out winners because the numbers of enemy killed was inflated... or simply included innocent bystanders.

I am sure the nuclear bomb attack on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were great victories based on the former criteria, and war crimes based on the latter count.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were targeted specifically because there were no military targets there... no heavy industry supporting the war effort, so up until 1945 had not received much bombing attention at all.

A bit like bombing the US for 5 years straight and then when you get a nuclear bomb you target the things you didn't target before that would not be of value to target.... you know... schools and churches and hospitals... just to show the local population that you were hard and would kill them all of you had to...

https://tuoitre.vn/cuoc-tim-kiem-chiec-may-bay-mig-21-sau-47-nam-mat-tich-20180303134149598.htm

Yuri Nikolaevich Poyarkov was a Soviet military pilot. And he was an instructor for Vietnamese pilots in the Vietnam War.

On the day of 30 April 1971, Poyarkov was on a training mission with Vietnamese pilot Công Phương Thảo on a MiG-21 fighter. That was Poyarkov's last flying mission, however, as people lost the contact with that aircraft on that day.

For days and years the local goverment tried to search for the missing pilots, but with no results.

After 3 decades, on 2018, one searching team lead by Vietnamese mathematician named Nguyễn Lê Anh managed to discover one fragment of the poor aircraft near the Tam Đảo mountains.

At the moment the team is trying to search for more evidences, and hopefully, for the remains of the two unlucky pilots.

Mr. Nguyễn Lê Anh seems determined to complete this searching missions. He was a soldier and once received education at Russia. "Nobody will be forgotten and nothing can be forgotten", Mr. Anh cited the famous proverb.

Mr. Nguyễn Lê Anh


Local people with the aircraft fragment

Good man. A man with honor and care. I wish him best of luck on his search mission.