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    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:07 am

    GarryB wrote:Why spend money overhauling the K if it is useless?

    If it is not useless why scrap it just because you have one new one?

    Agreed. The K still has at least 20 years if service left in her, and more like 30+ all things considered as long as she receives periodic repairs/refurbs. When she comes out of her current refit, she will be a very different ship and these perennial nay-sayer clowns will look awfully stupid.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:50 am

    Most of its electronics are obsolete as is its armament and communications and other systems, so as it is the K could not continue on for very long, but at the end of the day a carrier is much better than no carrier, and I agree they are certainly not going to get three brand new CVNs by 2030... they might have one new one by then, which means having the K operating would be rather more useful than scrapping her and just having one carrier again. By 2035 they will likely have a second in the water, but I still think the K would be useful even then... lets face it the current plans are for the F-35 to be everyones standard fighter so even an Su-35 like aircraft operating from the K would be good enough most of the time... especially with the new types of radar it will be able to operate and the missiles also using such guidance systems too... will render stealth largely the white elephant it is... perhaps they might develop the F-14-2000... certainly much less stealthy than an F-35 but also much bigger payload, speed, range... etc etc.

    They don't need carriers to fight NATO or the US or WWIII, they are to assure Russian Navy access around the world and to protect Russian navy surface vessels... they don't need to be 100K ton super carriers either, but they can't be dinky little half carriers like the Hermes or Mistral.

    Bigger than the K for the fixed wing carriers and 30K ton plus for the Mistral replacements.

    No VSTOL shit.
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    Post  Hole on Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:18 am

    Kuznetsov could still be used for training.


    Regarding the pic, I guess that there will be more small and medium size ships until all carriers and cruisers/destroyers are ready. Probably a second series of Bykovs plus more Karakurts.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:15 pm

    In the second half of 2018, Russian naval units in the Pacific are expected to receive two improved Project 22800 guided-missile corvettes, one Project 21980 Grachenok counter-sabotage high-speed armed patrol craft and some minor auxiliary vessels, ..
    And much more is to come. Pacific units expect to take possession of at least 30 new warships (11 new submarines and 19 new surface combatants) and seven new major auxiliary vessels by 2024, Muraviev said. These include guided-missile frigates, guided-missile corvettes and mine hunters.
    Bilateral cooperation in naval shipbuilding may also intensify. “Chinese companies already supply the Russian navy with limited amounts of ship engines to ease the shortfall caused by suspension of defense collaboration with Ukraine and Germany,” he said. ..
    At a time when China has built over-capacity in its shipbuilding industry, it would make sense for Chinese yards to build entire ships for Russia. “It may be possible that Chinese shipbuilders will be involved in some naval construction programs for the Russian navy,” Muraviev said. http://www.atimes.com/article/russia-expands-assets-and-naval-horizons-across-indo-pacific/?utm_source=The+Daily+Report&utm_campaign=c471ae694f-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_08_15_01_12&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1f8bca137f-c471ae694f-31607385
    If there is a demand, there'll be ready supply!
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    Post  eehnie on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:18 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    In the second half of 2018, Russian naval units in the Pacific are expected to receive two improved Project 22800 guided-missile corvettes, one Project 21980 Grachenok counter-sabotage high-speed armed patrol craft and some minor auxiliary vessels, ..
    And much more is to come. Pacific units expect to take possession of at least 30 new warships (11 new submarines and 19 new surface combatants) and seven new major auxiliary vessels by 2024, Muraviev said. These include guided-missile frigates, guided-missile corvettes and mine hunters.
    Bilateral cooperation in naval shipbuilding may also intensify. “Chinese companies already supply the Russian navy with limited amounts of ship engines to ease the shortfall caused by suspension of defense collaboration with Ukraine and Germany,” he said. ..
    At a time when China has built over-capacity in its shipbuilding industry, it would make sense for Chinese yards to build entire ships for Russia. “It may be possible that Chinese shipbuilders will be involved in some naval construction programs for the Russian navy,” Muraviev said. http://www.atimes.com/article/russia-expands-assets-and-naval-horizons-across-indo-pacific/?utm_source=The+Daily+Report&utm_campaign=c471ae694f-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_08_15_01_12&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1f8bca137f-c471ae694f-31607385
    If there is a demand, there'll be ready supply!

    Tis article is pure trolling:

    And there is more to come. Russian units in just the Pacific expect to take delivery of 37 new vessels by 2024 – a major acceleration compared to the 28 new units received in the region over the last decade. This indicates that despite scrapping programs deemed too expensive – notably the Leader-class destroyer and Storm aircraft carrier program – the Kremlin is moving ahead with a very ambitious naval upgrade.

    False. Zero credibility.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:32 am

    But even if it is, there's a grain of truth: Russia has under capacity in shipbuilding, while China has overcapacity, evidenced of the speed of her naval buildup in last decade. Who else is going to buy their medium/big ships? At best, u can count those countries on 1 hand!
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    Post  eehnie on Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:47 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:But even if it is, there's a grain of truth: Russia has under capacity in shipbuilding, while China has overcapacity, evidenced of the speed of her naval buildup in last decade. Who else is going to buy their medium/big ships? At best, u can count those countries on 1 hand!

    By 2019 with the end of the upgrade in the Zvezda shipyard, I think the capacity of the Russian shipyards will be more than enough for the own Navy. Russia still will have to gain the hability of builiding some types of ships, like these of the Project 23560 and the Project 23000. This only will be assured with the end of the production of the first ship of both projects, but this is more a situation of building human capabilities than of lack of capacity. This is a situation that Russia wants to afford soon and will work hard to do it successfully by 2025 approximately.

    With the big amount of ships under construction, new orders of complete ships from China seem very unlikely for me.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:59 am

    eehnie wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:But even if it is, there's a grain of truth: Russia has under capacity in shipbuilding, while China has overcapacity, evidenced of the speed of her naval buildup in last decade. Who else is going to buy their medium/big ships? At best, u can count those countries on 1 hand!

    By 2019 with the end of the upgrade in the Zvezda shipyard, I think the capacity of the Russian shipyards will be more than enough for the own Navy. Russia still will have to gain the hability of builiding some types of ships, like these of the Project 23560 and the Project 23000. This only will be assured with the end of the production of the first ship of both projects, but this is more a situation of building human capabilities than of lack of capacity. This is a situation that Russia wants to afford soon and will work hard to do it successfully by 2025 approximately.

    With the big amount of ships under construction, new orders of complete ships from China seem very unlikely for me.

    They should never build ship abroad. The shipyards, engine manufacturers and equipment suppliers need work. Every ship that you build abroad, even if cheap, is a loss  for the national economy.

    Even simple supply ships should be built in house. Unless you have an immediate need and cannot wait (this is.not the case).

    You can establish a partnership with technology exchange, if another country is.building something that you can't yet, and they are willing to cooperate, but that is the only exception. Russia is not USSR that have to.subsidize polish or other foreign shipyards...



    Anyway, they have shipyards with capabilities. They need to improve quality standards, manpower, organization and management, and improve all the supply chain.

    Many of the recent problems where due to issues with the suppliers (engine and weapon systems) and integration work.

    Hopefully the engine issues should be solved.

    In addition they should fix the design and set the requirements without changing them all the time.

    And maybe use dedicated vessels or old ships for testing and integration of new weapon systems, instead of putting a lot of untested technology in the ships.

    Frigates or improved gorshkov (8000t destroyer) could be build at yantar (kaliningrad),  saint peterburg (severnaya verf, and possibly admiralty shipyard), kerch shipyard, and maybe amur shipyard if they properly reorganize.

    Leader class destroyers/ cruisers could be built at the baltic shipyards in saint Petersburg, where they built also the kirov class battlecruisers and they are currently building the big nuclear class icebreaker (I believe there is also a class of icebreaker called lider, just to add confusion)

    Aircraft carriers could be build at zvezda shipyard in the east, as soon it completes the expansion and update work, and maybe also at severnaya verf (that is also planned  to be expanded and refurbished). In addition the kerch shipyard should be able to cope with ship up to 70000 tons.

    And maybe in a few years time we will be talking about similar update and refurbishment work on all the historical shipyard in Nicolaev (where they built many of the largest ships of imperial russian navy and soviet navy), if the political situation changes (and they will have the money) ....
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:02 pm

    No many of their shipyards need modernization a lot of work was ignored on them after the fall of the USSR.

    Also, the engines issues and integration work isn't the main reason why they work so slow you could at BEST give them a couple of years due tot he engines 2-3 at most, why do people keep going on with this myth.

    The issues the Russian shipbuilding Industry has goes miles deep from incompetent management staff, unskilled staff, poorly kept shipyards and so much more. To say it's because of engines just ignores the mountain of issues they have.

    Now you can make excuses and pretend there are no problems or you can admit there are problems and fix them. I prefer fixing the problem rather than letting it get out of hand and the Russian shipbuilding industry has let it gotten WAY out of hand.

    This is not me "hating" or being a "pro-nato fanboy"
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:08 pm

    They r also building too many classes of ships & boats for the top brass mostly to satisfy greed of different designers & manufacturers.
    Yes, in an ideal world warships & auxiliaries must be built at home but since Peter I, Russia been importing many foreign built ships, military & civilian- there's no shame in it as a lot of other countries do the same, for different reasons. Frankly, their yards can't meet the demand of the VMF & Atomflot in modernizing, repairing & new construction of submarines, warships, Arctic icebreakers & tankers/bulk carriers in the desired time frame. Hence delays, delays, & more delays.
    China may also be interested in helping the RF with naval matters as they both want to keep NATO, USA & their Asian allies "at arm's length".
    So, if they do order some ships in PRC, I won't be surprised at all!
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:36 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Also, the engines issues and integration work isn't the main reason why they work so slow you could at BEST give them a couple of years due tot he engines 2-3 at most, why do people keep going on with this myth.

    No-one with any sense of reality would really deny the Russian shipbuilding industry has been long neglected and suffers many problems as a result, but the engine issue caused by Ukropi & HATO sanctions has been crippling in the short term. You can't build ships without engines, and no-one will lay down hulls until the engine supply issue is resolved. Its that simple, and no amount of yabbering to the contrary will change it. The first serial-produced & certified MGT will take ~5 years to hit dockside from denial of supply from Zorya-Mashproekt (which has hit frigate builds accordingly). Delays due to MTU diesels are less, but still impacted their respective vessels. Why do people keep denying this simple truth?

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:This is not me "hating" or being a "pro-nato fanboy"
    With all due respect, we will be judge of that, and you're not exactly free of bias or agenda (truth be told, who is?). Smile
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:02 am

    Kuznetsov could still be used for training.

    When you are talking about an old model tank worth maybe 800K dollars, then keeping it and training on it make sense as it reduces wear and tear on the newer models, but with a carrier costing billions, it needs to be able to actually work.

    The K, with upgrades should be able to be a useful vessel, in terms of training, experience, and operational use, but I would expect by 2040 when a fourth new carrier is being put into service the K can retire...

    If there is a demand, there'll be ready supply!

    Having an enormous navy right now with Frigates and Destroyers and Cruisers and a few carriers would be of no use to Russia... right now, or in the next decade... they simply don't have a use for it yet and the extra burden of costs would be crippling to the things they actually do need.

    Even worse, getting china to build military ships for the Russian navy is spending money on Chinese shipyards... if current Russian shipyards can't do the job it makes rather more sense to look into the reasons for that and dealing with them than sending the money to China or anywhere else.

    This indicates that despite scrapping programs deemed too expensive – notably the Leader-class destroyer and Storm aircraft carrier program – the Kremlin is moving ahead with a very ambitious naval upgrade.

    Just because they decide this or that programme is not suitable does not mean they will simply have no destroyer or carrier sized vessels in their fleet in the future.

    They are not the US and are not forced to buy the most expensive white elephant that their MIC can push for max profit... No Zumwalts for Russia...

    But even if it is, there's a grain of truth: Russia has under capacity in shipbuilding, while China has overcapacity, evidenced of the speed of her naval buildup in last decade. Who else is going to buy their medium/big ships? At best, u can count those countries on 1 hand!

    The solution is to deal with the problems at home, not export work for your military... and it has nothing to do with China. This is about Russian companies providing for the defence of Russia. Short term stopgaps of buying some engines is OK... no point in stopping all production just because the Ukrainians are ass holes and the Germans need permission from the US to sell products to Russia.

    By 2019 with the end of the upgrade in the Zvezda shipyard, I think the capacity of the Russian shipyards will be more than enough for the own Navy.

    Exactly.... they are spending big money upgrading shipyards... and they are not going to be building thousands of ships... why would you get China to build 12 destroyers... when you are also spending big money to upgrade Russian shipyards to build them too... by the time the shipyards are ready to start production the Chinese would already have built them... stupid.

    You can establish a partnership with technology exchange, if another country is.building something that you can't yet, and they are willing to cooperate, but that is the only exception. Russia is not USSR that have to.subsidize polish or other foreign shipyards...

    x2

    Now you can make excuses and pretend there are no problems or you can admit there are problems and fix them. I prefer fixing the problem rather than letting it get out of hand and the Russian shipbuilding industry has let it gotten WAY out of hand.

    This is not me "hating" or being a "pro-nato fanboy"

    It is whining and complaining and thinking you know better that is the issue.

    The Russian Navy will have zero effect in any real confrontation with the US, so whether it has one carrier or 20 it makes no real difference... in fact having 20 carriers would bankrupt the country so it is just as well they haven't been introducing 10 Frigates and 5 destroyers a year for the past 5 years...


    They r also building too many classes of ships & boats for the top brass mostly to satisfy greed of different designers & manufacturers.

    Of course... but why didn't you tell them which design would work well and which one wouldn't before they built them?

    Nobody has powers of seeing the future... otherwise there would not have been VSTOL F-35s, or Zumwalts... when everyone stops making mistakes then you can criticise the Russian Navy (it is not the shipbuilders that decide what gets made and what does not).

    Frankly, their yards can't meet the demand of the VMF & Atomflot in modernizing, repairing & new construction of submarines, warships, Arctic icebreakers & tankers/bulk carriers in the desired time frame. Hence delays, delays, & more delays.

    There are plenty of yards... and name a western producer of ships that does not have delays?

    China may also be interested in helping the RF with naval matters as they both want to keep NATO, USA & their Asian allies "at arm's length".

    Building a navy for Russia would not be helping anyone but China...


    No-one with any sense of reality would really deny the Russian shipbuilding industry has been long neglected and suffers many problems as a result, but the engine issue caused by Ukropi & HATO sanctions has been crippling in the short term. You can't build ships without engines, and no-one will lay down hulls until the engine supply issue is resolved. Its that simple, and no amount of yabbering to the contrary will change it. The first serial-produced & certified MGT will take ~5 years to hit dockside from denial of supply from Zorya-Mashproekt (which has hit frigate builds accordingly). Delays due to MTU diesels are less, but still impacted their respective vessels. Why do people keep denying this simple truth?

    The US has been anti Russian for the last decade or so, yet despite having examples of Russian rocket engines in their possession, and also the full plans to make them it has been estimated it will take the US until 2028 before they can produce an equivalent... but I shouldn't mention that should I... after all making engines is easy... didn't they see it coming... could they have not anticipated problems of supply... it was stupid of them to rely on Russian engines in the first place right?
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:57 am

    There's a symbiotic relationship between economy & navy:
    a strong economy produces a strong navy which in turn helps the economy to function better by protecting state's interests on the high & littoral seas i.e. defending trade, transportation, EEZs, etc.
    To get financing, their yards peddle ships & subs abroad (like the French) to be able to afford new construction for their own aging mostly Soviet era navy that aspires to be #2. If it's so export oriented, getting there is a tall order indeed, IMO. How pathetic!
    But, Russia doesn't need so much $ to spare: she can reduce railroad transit fees, lease more agricultural land on favorable terms, &/ pay the Chinese with gold, oil, gas, timber, & other commodities for what they actually need now & in the near future to enable their yards modernize, expand, & concentrate on fewer ships that must be absolutely built/refitted at home.
    If renewed & better equipped blue water VMF can keep the USN & other allied navies busy & at bay in the World Ocean, & sooner the better, the PRC will still benefit from it.
    https://ria.ru/analytics/20180817/1526709322.html?utm_source=ria.24smi.info&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=2616&utm_content=1795561


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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:09 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:This is not me "hating" or being a "pro-nato fanboy"
    With all due respect, we will be judge of that, and you're not exactly free of bias or agenda (truth be told, who is?). Smile

    One flavor of fanboys can't be trusted with passing judgment on other flavor of fanboys.

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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:18 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:This is not me "hating" or being a "pro-nato fanboy"
    With all due respect, we will be judge of that, and you're not exactly free of bias or agenda (truth be told, who is?). Smile

    One flavor of fanboys can't be trusted with passing judgment on other flavor of fanboys.

    Yep, its a case of Pot. Kettle. Black.  Nuff said.
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    Post  Hole on Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:34 am

    New german frigates are late 29 month.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:50 am

    "It is whining and complaining and thinking you know better that is the issue.

    The Russian Navy will have zero effect in any real confrontation with the US, so whether it has one carrier or 20 it makes no real difference... in fact having 20 carriers would bankrupt the country so it is just as well they haven't been introducing 10 Frigates and 5 destroyers a year for the past 5 years..."


    Nothing I said is wrong, that is also not whining or complaining. Lending my view to a topic isn't doing any of that, You may not like it but that isn't my problem Garry.

    your own staffer told you and us to conduct ourselves properly if you cannot do that step down from your position.

    Because saying I am whining and complaining stating the facts well is disrespectful is it not.


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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:53 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Also, the engines issues and integration work isn't the main reason why they work so slow you could at BEST give them a couple of years due tot he engines 2-3 at most, why do people keep going on with this myth.

    No-one with any sense of reality would really deny the Russian shipbuilding industry has been long neglected and suffers many problems as a result, but the engine issue caused by Ukropi & HATO sanctions has been crippling in the short term.  You can't build ships without engines, and no-one will lay down hulls until the engine supply issue is resolved. Its that simple, and no amount of yabbering to the contrary will change it.  The first serial-produced & certified MGT will take ~5 years to hit dockside from denial of supply from Zorya-Mashproekt (which has hit frigate builds accordingly).  Delays due to MTU diesels are less, but still impacted their respective vessels. Why do people keep denying this simple truth?

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:This is not me "hating" or being a "pro-nato fanboy"
    With all due respect, we will be judge of that, and you're not exactly free of bias or agenda (truth be told, who is?). Smile

    sorry to tell you but I am not biased, I give the Russians credit where it is due. and I have many a time given them credit on this website, if I was biased I would be doing no such thing.

    I, however, don't turn my eye blindly and make excuses for them when they are messing up.

    that's what being unbiased is you see you give credit when it's due and you point out when they are wrong or doing things wrong.
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    Post  eehnie on Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:23 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:But even if it is, there's a grain of truth: Russia has under capacity in shipbuilding, while China has overcapacity, evidenced of the speed of her naval buildup in last decade. Who else is going to buy their medium/big ships? At best, u can count those countries on 1 hand!

    By 2019 with the end of the upgrade in the Zvezda shipyard, I think the capacity of the Russian shipyards will be more than enough for the own Navy. Russia still will have to gain the hability of builiding some types of ships, like these of the Project 23560 and the Project 23000. This only will be assured with the end of the production of the first ship of both projects, but this is more a situation of building human capabilities than of lack of capacity. This is a situation that Russia wants to afford soon and will work hard to do it successfully by 2025 approximately.

    With the big amount of ships under construction, new orders of complete ships from China seem very unlikely for me.

    They should never build ship abroad. The shipyards, engine manufacturers and equipment suppliers need work. Every ship that you build abroad, even if cheap, is a loss  for the national economy.

    Even simple supply ships should be built in house. Unless you have an immediate need and cannot wait (this is.not the case).

    You can establish a partnership with technology exchange, if another country is.building something that you can't yet, and they are willing to cooperate, but that is the only exception. Russia is not USSR that have to.subsidize polish or other foreign shipyards...



    Anyway, they have shipyards with capabilities. They need to improve quality standards, manpower, organization and management, and improve all the supply chain.

    Many of the recent problems where due to issues with the suppliers (engine and weapon systems) and integration work.

    Hopefully the engine issues should be solved.

    In addition they should fix the design and set the requirements without changing them all the time.

    And maybe use dedicated vessels or old ships for testing and integration of new weapon systems, instead of putting a lot of untested technology in the ships.

    Frigates or improved gorshkov (8000t destroyer) could be build at yantar (kaliningrad),  saint peterburg (severnaya verf, and possibly admiralty shipyard), kerch shipyard, and maybe amur shipyard if they properly reorganize.

    Leader class destroyers/ cruisers could be built at the baltic shipyards in saint Petersburg, where they built also the kirov class battlecruisers and they are currently building the big nuclear class icebreaker (I believe there is also a class of icebreaker called lider, just to add confusion)

    Aircraft carriers could be build at zvezda shipyard in the east, as soon it completes the expansion and update work, and maybe also at severnaya verf (that is also planned  to be expanded and refurbished). In addition the kerch shipyard should be able to cope with ship up to 70000 tons.

    And maybe in a few years time we will be talking about similar update and refurbishment work on all the historical shipyard in Nicolaev (where they built many of the largest ships of imperial russian navy and soviet navy), if the political situation changes (and they will have the money) ....

    In overall terms I agree about building not combat ships externally. The first and most important role of the Russian shipyards is to build the combat ships for the Russian Armed Forces. Even I think the auxiliary ships for the Russian Navy must be produced in the Russian shipyards, and if there is a saturation of the Russian shipyards, then, the civil companies are who must order ships abroad.

    As commented with the upgrade of the Zvezda shipyard to build large ships, including the biggest aircraft carriers, the capacity of the Russian shipyards becomes complete. Limited, but complete.

    As example. The other project where the noise is focused now, is the Project 23560. At the time of the Soviet Union, 3 of the current shipyards proved the capacity and the hability to build surface combat ships of the size of the Project 23560:

    - Baltic shipyard, Sant Petersburg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Shipyard
    - Admiralty shipyard, Sant Petersburg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty_Shipyard
    - Sevmash shipyard, Severodvinsk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevmash

    The phisical capacity, related to the infrastructure, very likely remains in the shipyards. The human capability, the human hability, is surely affected by lack of production in decades, but wil be restored with the production of the first unit of the project 23560. Russia has not need nor interest in building abroad this ship, Russia is just interested in restoring the habitity of producing surface combat ships of this size, and for it surely needs not investment on infrastructure, do not worry about it. Obviously the noise will continue, but with zero effect.

    The attacks to the Russian Navy are not limited to the media noise. There is a strong economic war, and even military attacks (Syria and more places). As part of the economic war Russia suffered as example a block to the access of foreign components, that would kill the industry of many countries, but not the Russian industry with its low overall foreign dependence.

    How can be the Russian Ministry of Defense be blamed of changing plans when they receive attacks like this block to the access of foreign components? The Russian Ministry of Defense has been forced to change plans and modify designs to include the replacement of foreign components. How can be new local designed and made components be included in the projects without modifying designs and without intense testing stages? It has not been a mistake, it has been a solution to foreign attacks. But the US fanboys and trolls care not about all this, they have other goals.

    Russia is advancing successfully in the replacement of foreign  components, Russia is achieving to build new types of combat ships (recently Project 11711 and Project 22350), and with it, Russia is restoring capabilities of production and improving its military strenght and resilience. In overall terms Russia is moving forward defeating all the obstacles, for desperation of the US and Israel supporters.
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    hoom

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    Post  hoom on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:58 am

    Charly015 take on future sub fleet http://charly015.blogspot.com/2018/08/primer-acercamiento-al-grafico-de-la.html
    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 12 Armad%2Brusa%2Bsubmarinos%2Ba%2Bfuturo
    14* Borey
    7* Yasen
    18* Husky
    3* Lada
    9* Kalina
    12* Kilo
    And a gaggle of special purpose subs.

    I'd have been inclined to include Kalibrated Oscars though I guess by the time there are 18* Huskys the Oscars will be long gone.
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    walle83

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    Post  walle83 on Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:18 am

    hoom wrote:Charly015 take on future sub fleet http://charly015.blogspot.com/2018/08/primer-acercamiento-al-grafico-de-la.html
    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 12 Armad%2Brusa%2Bsubmarinos%2Ba%2Bfuturo
    14* Borey
    7* Yasen
    18* Husky
    3* Lada
    9* Kalina
    12* Kilo
    And a gaggle of special purpose subs.

    I'd have been inclined to include Kalibrated Oscars though I guess by the time there are 18* Huskys the Oscars will be long gone.

    14 Borei, 7 Yasen and 18 Huskys? Seems very optimistic. Im going to be a very old man when all of that has been produced.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:02 am

    The 1st 2 classes have exactly these total #s planned:
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0_955_%C2%AB%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B9%C2%BB#%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasen-class_submarine#Units
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0_885_%C2%AB%D0%AF%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8C%C2%BB#%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0

    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2018/april-2018-navy-naval-defense-news/6151-russia-s-malakhit-design-bureau-completes-husky-submarine-preliminary-design.html

    ..the Russians hope to bring the cost of the Husky down to a level where they can build a minimum of 16 to 20 of the attack and SSGN versions of the boat—and possibly more. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-new-husky-class-submarine-everything-we-know-want-23804

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada-class_submarine#Units
    ..the two last Lada-class Project 677 submarines will be delivered as scheduled — in 2018 and 2019. Afterwards Moscow will terminate the Project 677 Lada-class in favor of Project Kalina.
    https://sputniknews.com/military/201603221036746542-russia-kalina-class-submarine/
    Notice that no total Kalina # is given!
    Of course plans r just plans; it remains to be seen if they stick to them. Also, some of those Ladas &/ older Kilos may be sold/scrapped/inactivated in the next decade.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:21 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : add links, text)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:42 am

    Because saying I am whining and complaining stating the facts well is disrespectful is it not.

    Vlad just needs to look back at your posts about the various delays and problems regarding the Russian navy, and then look at your opinions and compare those with the total absence of your posts regarding plenty of failures in the Royal Navy and US navy, and he can see... as anyone could that you troll and flamebait.

    You are not just giving an opinion... you are demanding heads roll and why are they so incompetent... which is not the same thing when you don't demand heads for poor wielding in US boomer submarine missile tubes for example.

    sorry to tell you but I am not biased, I give the Russians credit where it is due. and I have many a time given them credit on this website, if I was biased I would be doing no such thing.

    That is a bit of a joke right?

    I am not racist because there are a few niggers I can put up with.

    The key hint is usually the claim of not being biased...

    I, however, don't turn my eye blindly and make excuses for them when they are messing up.

    The problem is a good dose of reality... a super strong enormous navy is not what Russia needs right now and your whining makes it sound like it is important that they don't have 5 brand new Destroyers being launched this year.

    Right now a lot of ships would be a burden... they are upgrading shipyards and they are upgrading and improving in lots of areas... their new torpedoes seem to be rather good, which should improve the performance of the entire fleet of submarines, but you judge them on their rate of production of large ships, yet completely refuse to just the US on its production of rocket motors... a super power that can't even make its own rocket motors... imagine...


    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL on Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:05 am

    hoom wrote:Charly015 take on future sub fleet http://charly015.blogspot.com/2018/08/primer-acercamiento-al-grafico-de-la.html
    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 12 Armad%2Brusa%2Bsubmarinos%2Ba%2Bfuturo
    14* Borey
    7* Yasen
    18* Husky
    3* Lada
    9* Kalina
    12* Kilo
    And a gaggle of special purpose subs.

    I'd have been inclined to include Kalibrated Oscars though I guess by the time there are 18* Huskys the Oscars will be long gone.


    The graphic of Charly is speculative.For the moment Hasky is only in the papers, but 18 could be reasonable thinkig in the ammount of SSN keep in the inventory in last 15 years

    In the program of armament 2011-2020 were planned 8 Borey and 7 Yasen
    The 8 Borey was for replace old Delta II/III or Typhoon, and complement the 6 Delta IV for reach the parity with USA of 14 SSBN
    The Yasen are not not necessarily replace for all the Oscars , that by time , a decade ago was at least 9 in the inventory and in the moment of Kursk accident was 11 and at least other planned

    Now a new order of 6 Borey have been planned for the new program to replace the 6 Delta IV , and is posible more Yasen will be ordered, probably 3 more , perpahps 5 to complete 12
    About tye SSN , Russia is repairing Akulas for keep on operation the most posible numbers, because Huskys will gone about 2030

    Russia wants to have a nuclear submarine fleet about 40-45 units, so only need build 3 submarines each 2 years as much


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:01 pm

    The one unfinished Oscar II (Belgorod) will now become the first Poseidon carrier.

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