Russian Naval Construction Plans and Numbers

Kimppis wrote:Gorshkov: light destroyer
Super-Gorshkov: medium destroyer
Lider: heavy destroyer


So atleast 4 + 10 + 8 = 22. Looks good!

But I really think they need to order more Grigorovich sized vessels. Proper frigates, just like the Chinese Type 054A-class. Atleast 20 of those. Although I noticed many of their heavier (mostly upcoming) "corvettes" are basically light frigates. 24 VLS, that's not a corvette, that's almost a frigate (a good thing, obviously).  

The 12 ships of the Lider class, a proposed 17,000-ton destroyer, could easily replace the existing cruisers and destroyers of the fleet, but there is little indication that the Kremlin plans to lay these ships down, much less complete them in a reasonable timeframe. Russia’s recent economic crisis has made naval construction an ever harder sell. Moreover, the seizure of Crimea cut off the possibility of foreign acquisition, primarily the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships, although at some point Russia could perhaps consider buying ships from China. ..
Russia’s navy is in bad shape, and Russia is in no shape to rebuild it. In the foreseeable future, Russia should commit to naval projects that it absolutely requires, and that it does well. This mostly means a nuclear submarine flotilla capable of posing a deterrent threat, and a small surface fleet tasked with managing routine maritime maintenance operations.
https://warisboring.com/the-russian-navy-is-in-a-death-spiral/

Tsavo Lion wrote:

The 12 ships of the Lider class, a proposed 17,000-ton destroyer, could easily replace the existing cruisers and destroyers of the fleet, but there is little indication that the Kremlin plans to lay these ships down, much less complete them in a reasonable timeframe. Russia’s recent economic crisis has made naval construction an ever harder sell. Moreover, the seizure of Crimea cut off the possibility of foreign acquisition, primarily the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships, although at some point Russia could perhaps consider buying ships from China. ..
Russia’s navy is in bad shape, and Russia is in no shape to rebuild it. In the foreseeable future, Russia should commit to naval projects that it absolutely requires, and that it does well. This mostly means a nuclear submarine flotilla capable of posing a deterrent threat, and a small surface fleet tasked with managing routine maritime maintenance operations.
https://warisboring.com/the-russian-navy-is-in-a-death-spiral/

Well, "small surface fleet" can also project power ashore with LACMs, as already demonstrated. Yes, importing ships from the PRC is possible- the USSR had some of its ships & helos built in Poland & the Russian Empire got a few of her big ships built abroad as well.
Also, could those icebreakers Russia has now that are idle in winter be modified for naval roles & sent South to fill gaps, if need be?
In a crisis, I think so!

Tsavo Lion wrote:Is it because it's a different time now & there's no Stalin & Beria anymore to shoot/send them to GULAG for slow completion of orders? What would make them better? New equipment? More qualified management, personnel & yards?  

Tsavo Lion wrote:What about capital ships that can be built only in big drydocks like in Nikolaev, now in Ukraine? To build them & req. infrastructure also takes many years. If they didn't have to build all those new icebreakers, do u think the new warships could be there sooner?
OTH, RF has her nuclear triad & can do w/o big surface fleet, especially now as the Chinese Navy will keep JMSDF & USN busy in W. Pac. & possibly elsewhere!

PapaDragon wrote:.
Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

AlfaT8 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:.
Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

I disagree, the Super-Gorshkov would also be a good investment.
Unless you mean the SG when you mentioned "missile ships".

AlfaT8 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:.
Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

I disagree, the Super-Gorshkov would also be a good investment.
Unless you mean the SG when you mentioned "missile ships".

PapaDragon wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:.
Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

I disagree, the Super-Gorshkov would also be a good investment.
Unless you mean the SG when you mentioned "missile ships".

No, Super Gorshkov would only be good investment if they were building Gorshkovs en masse. But they are not. They aren't even building any, they are just finishing old order placed in bygone era.

It's been years since they even placed order for a frigate, let alone laid one down. Something is seriously wrong here. Ukrainian engine excuse no longer flies since it's been resolved.

AlfaT8 wrote:Dude, i am not saying they should stop building Gorshkovs, it's just that the SG could also be built, it should take less time and money to build than it would take to build the Lider, while also being able to fulfill the role of both Destroyer and Cruiser, a good investment IMO.

Yea, those are Corvettes.

PapaDragon wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:Dude, i am not saying they should stop building Gorshkovs, it's just that the SG could also be built, it should take less time and money to build than it would take to build the Lider, while also being able to fulfill the role of both Destroyer and Cruiser, a good investment IMO.

Yea, those are Corvettes.

Nothing wrong with building Super Gorshkov but they are not building anything at all. Not a single ship above corvette.

There is a supposed delay on account of AA missiles but it also makes no sense. It takes 3 years to reach a phase in construction where AA missiles are being installed. It takes much less than that to resolve problem with those missiles. So why aren't they ordering more frigates?

They have 4 under construction for North Fleet. They should order at least 4 more for Pacific. It would be enough to plug a gap. Instead nothing. Not a single one for years and by the looks of it nothing for years to come. Not even announcement.

AlfaT8 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:.
Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

I disagree, the Super-Gorshkov would also be a good investment.
Unless you mean the SG when you mentioned "missile ships".

Nasr Hosein wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:.
Capital ships are completely redundant at this point in time. Later yes but not now.

Now they need three things: missile ships, corvettes and frigates. That's it.

Three shipyards per one class. Problem solved.

Anything bigger right now is a waste of time, money, man-hours, and production capacities.

I disagree, the Super-Gorshkov would also be a good investment.
Unless you mean the SG when you mentioned "missile ships".

I have a question, if there are plans for a "Super Gorshkov", then would this ship be classified as a Frigate or Destroyer? Whatever the case, would the advent of a "Super Gorshkov" mean that there wouldn't be any Lider Class Destroyers? Because as far as I am aware, the design for Lider Class Destroyers have been approved and all related tasks will commence in the coming time. Also, when there is a "Super Gorshkov", would that mean that the Admiral Groshkov Class Frigates  (current ones), be discontinued by the time the sixth frigate has been built and handed over for trials before commissioning?

AlfaT8 wrote:
Definitely a Destroyer at this point.
Think of it as a cheaper Lider in a sense, the Lider is more a capital ship with all the bells and whistles, while the SG is more a guided missile ship.
Unlikely, even if the SG becomes a reality, the Russian navy trying to get the best bang for there buck will still most likely focus on Frigates, besides they still have a crippling need for new Frigates.
Then again, who knows, they might focus on an upgraded Grigorovich-class instead.

T-47 wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:
Definitely a Destroyer at this point.
Think of it as a cheaper Lider in a sense, the Lider is more a capital ship with all the bells and whistles, while the SG is more a guided missile ship.
Unlikely, even if the SG becomes a reality, the Russian navy trying to get the best bang for there buck will still most likely focus on Frigates, besides they still have a crippling need for new Frigates.
Then again, who knows, they might focus on an upgraded Grigorovich-class instead.

Super Gorshokov is just extended version of Gorshkov, so if they managed to smooth Gorshkov production. SG will come out just fine, it only needs a bigger yard to build.

Nasr Hosein wrote:

T-47 wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:
Definitely a Destroyer at this point.
Think of it as a cheaper Lider in a sense, the Lider is more a capital ship with all the bells and whistles, while the SG is more a guided missile ship.
Unlikely, even if the SG becomes a reality, the Russian navy trying to get the best bang for there buck will still most likely focus on Frigates, besides they still have a crippling need for new Frigates.
Then again, who knows, they might focus on an upgraded Grigorovich-class instead.

Super Gorshokov is just extended version of Gorshkov, so if they managed to smooth Gorshkov production. SG will come out just fine, it only needs a bigger yard to build.

Speaking of "bigger yards", I have searched (unsuccessfully) for information regarding any intent or plans by Russia to expand its shipbuilding industry to facilitate building large combat ships like Destroyers, Aircraft Carriers and Cruisers. Are there such plans in the foreseeable future?

AlfaT8 wrote:
Overall, looking at the situation, Corvettes have been going well, Frigates are being resolved, destroyers are in planning and so are Carriers.
As for Cruisers, i don't think so, the Lider and SG would probably be more than enough.