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    Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

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    GuyFromSerbia
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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  GuyFromSerbia on Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:43 pm

    Russia is not an island in the middle of the ocean. Russia is a large country bordering on many hostile regions. Having small professional army is a death sentence for Russia, because it doesn't have reserve and not big enough to cover so large territory. Professional quick reaction units are good for quick covering of gaps and to be quickly send to places where and when needed, but to defend a country you need conscript army with large reserve to mobilize.

    Back to my statement.Nato is far from being organized to attack Russia.I think that the future wars will be smaller conflicts in ME and Caucasus.In such conflicts divisions would have a hard time trying to push rebels out.Simply,there isn`t a front there.Enemy can appear deep inside your teritory.For that you need a quick,small,professional formation that can attack quickly and efficiently.You don`t need tanks and conscripts,you need good men and air support.

    Claiming you want an all professional force is nice but if you have a 1 million man army and you have 300,000 volunteers what are you going to do? Pay them double or triple and expect them to do three times the work of a conscript... or worse accept your military force is a paper force undermanned and unable to perform its duty?

    I suspect you would agree that keeping conscription might be the best option there.

    I think that volunteers should recieve better pays and maybe some things like a free home and tax cuts.That will surely make some young men join the army,knowing that there is no more bullying there and that you can live with the funds you get.

    Maybe you don`t understand me,I don`t think Russia should just cancel conscription.I think that first Russia must enlarge the professional force,at least to half a milion,and then cancel the conscription.Yes,the current number of professional troops is small,but I`m sure it can be enlarged somehow.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  Asf on Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:01 am

    and then cancel the conscription
    What for?
    I think that first Russia must enlarge the professional force,at least to half a milion
    It's already about half a million 'professional force' of the Army - officers and contract soldiers and NCOs.
    I think that the future wars will be smaller conflicts in ME and Caucasus.In such conflicts divisions would have a hard time trying to push rebels out.Simply,there isn`t a front there.Enemy can appear deep inside your teritory.For that you need a quick,small,professional formation that can attack quickly and efficiently.
    Sounds like meaningless rhetorics of a non-military folk

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:37 am

    Back to my statement.Nato is far from being organized to attack Russia.

    Interesting statement, but wrong.

    The US and UK and France easily moved forces to various places over the last few years to intervene... including Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan.

    And Russia is not to plan her future defence based on the situation right now... isn't it allowed to plan for future changes in situation... what happens if half of the Ukraine splits off and joins the EU and NATO... they can base armoured forces very close to Russia and would not be bound by the CFE treaty because only Russia has signed it.

    I think that the future wars will be smaller conflicts in ME and Caucasus.In such conflicts divisions would have a hard time trying to push rebels out.

    And what if you are wrong and another threat presents itself out of the blue?

    The Russians need to be able to protect all her territory... and sometimes keep forces in certain areas to prevent certain neighbours from taking advantage of a situation.

    Coloured revolutions are always possibilities that Russia simply cannot ignore.

    They don't need a huge conventional force to fight WWIII, but equally they need an effective force that is useful and powerful and efficient.

    For that you need a quick,small,professional formation that can attack quickly and efficiently.You don`t need tanks and conscripts,you need good men and air support.

    So they are only allowed a small paramilitary COIN force? Why have a military... I am sure the FSB and MVD can cope with terrorism cells.

    I think that volunteers should recieve better pays and maybe some things like a free home and tax cuts.That will surely make some young men join the army,knowing that there is no more bullying there and that you can live with the funds you get.

    So you want an army of men looking for financial security. Interesting.

    Maybe you don`t understand me,I don`t think Russia should just cancel conscription.I think that first Russia must enlarge the professional force,at least to half a milion,and then cancel the conscription.Yes,the current number of professional troops is small,but I`m sure it can be enlarged somehow.

    Ending concription has been on the table for decades, and they made all sorts of offers and so far it is what it is.... maybe they need a draft for volunteers... Twisted Evil

    Sounds like meaningless rhetorics of a non-military folk

    The opinion of a man who served in the Russian military holds more weight than the opinion of a Kiwi on the other side of the planet... on this opinion we agree.


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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  Firebird on Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:55 pm

    Does anyone know how the reform of the Russian armed forces reserves is going?

    There was an article somewhere saying that the problem with the |Reserve was that reservists generally lost skills within a month or so, and then took several months to relearn them. And that reservists struggled in some ways in previous Russian and Soviet conflicts.

    In Britain, reservists attend for one weekend per month and get perks like lower taxes.

    I think the solution might be multi level reserves ie those with monthly, quartlerly, annual and even bi annual refresher training. Ofcourse its not just frontline soldiers that are needed in reserve. Its logistics, technical support and other operations that might be a long way from enemy lines.

    PS parts of the forum were diverting to some hosting company earlier- not sure what was happening?

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  Asf on Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:31 pm

    Does anyone know how the reform of the Russian armed forces reserves is going?

    During Vostok-2014 several units were reactivated from reserve, several artillery and other battalions (territorial defence battalion was mentioned) "in a matter of days". Units was reported to be able to perform someking of training missions.

    Testing of contract reserve program is underway currently.

    Major changes of student military training is planned (as a part of initial reservist training).

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:10 pm

    How about you ask Vladimir a russian soldier what he thinks about having no conscripts in Russia and down sizing the active menpower to such lower numbers that they can not protect their own territory anymore without focusing 80% their army on one specific oblast problems?

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  GuyFromSerbia on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:20 pm

    down sizing the active menpower to such lower numbers that they can not protect their own territory anymore

    Never mentioned downsizing.Never.Never did,never will.The army,after the reform which would take about 2 years,would have the same number of soldiers as it has today.

    And go ahead call Vladimir,I have nothing to fear from a man with a respectful opinion and theories to prove his thoughts.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:51 pm

    GuyFromSerbia wrote:
    down sizing the active menpower to such lower numbers that they can not protect their own territory anymore

    Never mentioned downsizing.Never.Never did,never will.The army,after the reform which would take about 2 years,would have the same number of soldiers as it has today.

    And go ahead call Vladimir,I have nothing to fear from a man with a respectful opinion and theories to prove his thoughts.

    WTF?
    You said small army, small army has to be downsized from the current arm size.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  GuyFromSerbia on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:11 pm

    And in one of my comments I stated that I didn`t mean small,it was a mistake.I meant professional.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:23 pm

    GuyFromSerbia wrote:And in one of my comments I stated that I didn`t mean small,it was a mistake.I meant professional.

    Scrapping conscripts means automatically smaller military, volunteers will not float in like an avalanche to compensate all the scrapped conscripts.
    Nor is this so called "professional army" professional. Look at the US their regular army is bad trained and equiped same as "unprofessional" armies often in worse conditions.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  medo on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:32 pm

    GuyFromSerbia wrote:And in one of my comments I stated that I didn`t mean small,it was a mistake.I meant professional.

    Combined army is the best answer for Russia and for any other country. Not all units must be professional. High technology units and quick reaction units must be professional, but regular infantry and motorized infantry could still be conscript army. Conscript army give large reserve force and also train general population for war time.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  GuyFromSerbia on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:47 pm

    Combined army is the best answer for Russia and for any other country. Not all units must be professional. High technology units and quick reaction units must be professional, but regular infantry and motorized infantry could still be conscript army. Conscript army give large reserve force and also train general population for war time.

    A big war today is almost impossible.Nukes and MAD will surely keep anyone from trying to take on moscow.Russia should focus on mobile and professional ground forces,while modernizing the nuclear forces so that they can break any shields NATO makes.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  medo on Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:25 pm

    GuyFromSerbia wrote:
    Combined army is the best answer for Russia and for any other country. Not all units must be professional. High technology units and quick reaction units must be professional, but regular infantry and motorized infantry could still be conscript army. Conscript army give large reserve force and also train general population for war time.

    A big war today is almost impossible.Nukes and MAD will surely keep anyone from trying to take on moscow.Russia should focus on mobile and professional ground forces,while modernizing the nuclear forces so that they can break any shields NATO makes.

    Big WW3 now is far more possible today than in times of the first cold war from 1948 to 1990. In that time on both sides were reasonable and adult leaders. Today you have childish idiots in White House. I think WW3 will actually happen with Hillary Clinton as President of US. She is even worse than Obama and they are all just marionettes in the hands of financial satanists from behind the scene. Russia need big army to defend both fronts in European part and in far East in the same time.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  GuyFromSerbia on Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:55 pm

    Bottom line-I think Russia will face more wars in Cacausus and Middle East,than a real WW3.You can always disagree,but that is just my opinion.In such conditions I think that a professional force would be much better then the conscript one.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:05 pm

    GuyFromSerbia wrote:
    Bottom line-I think Russia will face more wars in Cacausus and Middle East,than a real WW3.You can always disagree,but that is just my opinion.In such conditions I think that a professional force would be much better then the conscript one.

    You still don't get it?

    If you ban conscripts you will have automatically smaller army, volunteers don't grow on trees, we had army in menpower during conscription of 185.000 now it is 175.000 and since this reform of "Professional was started just 2 years ago" the constant shrinking of Bundeswehr each 2 years is around 10.900 people less and volunteers incoming of roughly 8.500, meaning the Bundeswehr will reactive conscriptions in next 10 years and that is set in stone!

    Your opinion isn't falls but you completley ignore that US is pushing very hard for WW3 between EU slaves and Russia so they can do a proxy war and finance all sides like they did during WW1 and WW2 and their GDP increased almost two fold.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  GuyFromSerbia on Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:29 pm

    A professional one=volunteer one.Of course,you might not think that it is professional in terms of combat performance.And I actually agree with that.I just have no idea where those 600 bilion go.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  GuyFromSerbia on Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:51 pm

    Also,the whole saying that everything is OK with this force right now is not true.

    Here are some of the news:

    http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1888238,00.html
    http://rt.com/politics/new-russian-outraged-forces-318/

    As you can see,because Russians are relying on Conscripts and not boosting up the contract soldiers,their military is getting smaller and smaller every year.Conscripts aren`t VITAL,they are just a repair tool which won`t last much longer.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:59 pm

    Those are relatively old articles (2009 and 2012). Now, Russian military forces can make more money than oil and gas workers.

    Conscription is needed as it means that during a major wartime, they will have people who are capable of fighting rather then sending a bunch of farmers with no experience, to go die somewhere. This was due to the fact that the second world war has helped caused major casualties for Russia. People say third world war will never happen, but I am pretty certain they said the same thing after the first world war about a second one not happening.

    Russia is moving to a mix of conscription/contract based military. Now with the introduction of allowing the creation of private military companies, I can imagine that those will somehow be included as well. But in reality, a huge portion of soldiers use in Iraq as example has been private military. That is in both dealing against Saddam and his troops (whom, regardless of size of army, was all poorly trained, equipped and lacked proper general as Saddam never had military experience yet was in charge of the tactics used). So in the end, they didn't make much difference in against US. But, and the big but, is that many more US lives have been lost, but they are not accounted for, simply because they are private military. Yet, they should be accounted for, since that they are doing many of the same jobs as the US soldiers are doing.

    Russia is now going to see at least 1/3 of its military as contract. So conscripts have a chance to continue on and become contract to do better. But replacing all of them for contract is not smart, because if incase shit really hit the fan, then they will be in desperate need of troops and even contract ones are hard to find. I remember during the beginning of the war in Iraq, they were having such difficulties in finding soldiers, they had to turn to National guard and other weekend warriors to go and fight in Iraq/Afghanistan. I also remember when I was working at the US consulate, I had a fair share of people coming in to go and see someone about moving to US. When I asked to see papers, it was military papers about their acceptance into the USMC. I asked why they didn't join Canadian Army as these guys are Canadian, and they said because they had criminal records..... So in the US, they also loosened rules as well, to obtain people.

    US spends a lot of money on the military, but if you actually break it down, a lot of it actually goes to the big people, to the maintenance of the military bases it has around the world, and pay/compensation to the military units themselves. Equipment payments and R&D falls somewhere around $100B which is still a lot, but not much more than China as example. So this also in turn does make what Werewolf was saying correct about poorly equipped. Don't forget, many of the equipment in US military is heavily overpriced. My father used to work for Sperry who made military gear for the navy of both nations, as well as radar equipment (worked up in the Dew Lines during the cold war) and he would state that they were heavily overpriced and they were able to get similar modules for its radar from Cezckoslovakia at much cheaper rates.

    Hummvees, Bradlys, M1's all of that, are very expensive equipment. They are not necessarily better (actually, the Hummers were garbage many would say, and the Bradly's were being used in rolls that it shouldn't have, due to weaker armour). But they also have to take into account that the people working at these facilities are well paid individual and the companies they are buying from are private (thus they require a profit margin). Russian companies alternatively, are State run and the employees are paid semi-decently (depending on the location. Some are paid worst than a person working at a cell phone booth in Moscow, and some are paid well), and the equipment is not really all that expensive, but are practical. Example is that an M1 tank will go around $4 - $5 million where a T-90 will run around $2 - $3 Million. This is just an example.

    Russia, due to its smaller population than USA/China/India, has to rely on conscription due to the fact that if there is a major war, they will have to muster up quite a few million people. In that case, it is better to have the people partially trained already rather than sending farmers to die. In China, India and USA, where they have a larger population, they could get away with having conscription. Actually, India and China specifically, because even if they cannot get that many people to join, that "not many" could be 10 - 20 million soldiers as both the countries population is enormous. USA on the other hand has no public schools but what it does offer, is free schooling (so no student loans) when you join the army, and a guarantee pay cheque and medical care. Russia? Well, school is pretty much already free, so is medical care and social benefits. What is the incentive of joining the Russian army for Russian's? Not much other than a potential to make good money in the future. But if you go to university, set up your own business in IT or what not, you can make millions, or work for an overseas company that can get you a fortune in itself. So even then, contract soldiers, they may still find it hard to get people. Hence why conscription is needed. But, the thing is, there are people you can still pay off (although, many people are now ending up in jail over such corruption) to get out of military service, and as well, there is this loose rule that if you are already destined to go to university (accepted), then you avoid military service.

    Israel has conscription. Look at the quality of their soldiers for being mostly conscripts. They are well trained and well disciplined troops. Effective of what they do. If they didn't have conscription, then they would probably be really hard pressed to find troops. If they didn't have a strict conscription, then there would be many more ways to avoid military service.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:24 am

    My friends, I would like to ask about your opinions and comments about this article.

    Feel free to like or dislike it.

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-bear-has-no-claws-russias-massive-military-modernization-11445

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:40 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:My friends, I would like to ask about your opinions and comments about this article.

    Feel free to like or dislike it.

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-bear-has-no-claws-russias-massive-military-modernization-11445

    Western MSM agitprop for those retards who like to masturbate over "Russia-is-doomed" apocalypse scenarios. To gauge the caliber of the intended readers, simply browse the comments and the low-brow, ignorant and spiteful nature of these intellectual bottom-feeders will become only too apparent. Pay no heed to this biased screed....

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:58 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:My friends, I would like to ask about your opinions and comments about this article.

    Feel free to like or dislike it.

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-bear-has-no-claws-russias-massive-military-modernization-11445

    Western MSM agitprop for those retards who like to masturbate over "Russia-is-doomed" apocalypse scenarios.  To gauge the caliber of the intended readers, simply browse the comments and the low-brow, ignorant and spiteful nature of these intellectual bottom-feeders will become only too apparent.  Pay no heed to this biased screed....

    I didn't read the article, I'm guessing they're masturbating over what some 5th-column monetarists said, but little did they know Kudrin had his ass-kicked to the curb for a reason lol!

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:35 pm

    Contract soldiers outnumber conscripts in Russian military – Defense Minister

    In September, the Russian military had more contract servicemen than conscripts, Sergey Shoigu has said, adding it was proof of the growing prestige of a military career and its popularity among young Russians.

    The minister noted that the officers who conducted the draft were obliged to take special measures to decrease the numbers of those who wanted to join the ranks. “Already in September, we started to hold back applicants, because there were so many of them. And this cannot but make us happy,” the Defense Minister said in an interview with the ITAR-TASS news agency.

    Shoigu added that sometimes people even tried to bribe military officers in order to join the ranks and the incidents ended in criminal cases. The minister said that such things had never happened before.

    Such developments could be explained by more generous wages.

    The head of the National Center for Defense, General Mikhail Mizintsev, told the Interfax news agency that for the first time in history the number of contract soldiers in Russian military forces had surpassed the number of conscript soldiers.

    The general said that the defense ministry hired over 70,000 people as contract servicemen in 2014, fulfilling the draft plan by 94 percent in September. Over 16,000 contract servicemen joined units that make up Russian peacekeeping forces, the airborne troops, the marines and special forces units.

    “Two army brigades, 12 special forces units and five battalions of airborne troops and marines were manned entirely with contract servicemen,” Mizintsev told reporters.

    In June this year, Russia introduced a federal law allowing male citizens who reach the age of conscription to choose between one year of conscription and two years as a contract serviceman. The law is part of a larger military reform, with the objective of decreasing the numbers of military in the country, and at the same time boosting their professionalism, as well as improving the quality of weapons and equipment.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:53 pm

    http://rt.com/politics/200391-russian-army-contract-reform/
    So much for conscription being the only gaurantee for enough servicemen...

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  Regular on Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:30 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:http://rt.com/politics/200391-russian-army-contract-reform/
    So much for conscription being the only gaurantee for enough servicemen...
    Nice find. Positive things are happening in military. Very good.

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    Re: Russian Military Reforms [Command-Structure-Personnel]

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:32 am

    A step forward... but no mention of ending conscription...


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