Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan

George1 wrote:and who is today's Rambo i wonder???

By the way, I have read the new movie will be about Rambo battling ISIS. The movie is in the making so far.

GarryB wrote:The group called the Mujahedeen in afghanistan in the 1980s were afghans... the group called the taleban in the 1990s were afghans.. suggesting they were totally different groups is fine because they were, but suggesting they were totally different people is stupid... most of the taleban from the 1990s were likely muj in the 80s if they were alive then.

The main difference was that the taleban were Pakistan funded.

Osama Bin Laden was a Muj but was never a taleban he was Al Quada... he was friends with the Taleban they gave him refuge.

He made most of his money in Afghanistan in the 1980s building things... he was an engineer and worked on the aqueducts... mostly from US money through Pakistan and Saudi money who knew he was a nutter and basically paid him to not hurt them.

Think of the muj and taleban as two separate factions... the third faction being government forces installed by the Soviets when they were in power and after they left.

The Muj constantly changed sides between rebel and government in the 1980s, and in the mid 1990s when the government forces collapsed it was taleban vs the remains of the muj, with the government forces mixed between the two.

The northern alliance were a different ethnic group from the southern afghans... can't remember the two different groups off hand, but the northern ones  were different from the southern ones... the southern ones were kin to pakistan, while the northern ones were kin to the stans in the former soviet union... the southern afghans tended to be taleban while the northern alliance was supported by Russian and I believe Iran.

So, if The Mujas and the Talibs were different groups, is it fair to say that one is Muslims radical (Talibs) and the other one (Mujas) were simple Muslims, who were not radical in anyway, but they simply wanted to preserve Afghanistan to be Muslim rather than anything else i.e. Soviet regime? What is the main difference between Muj and Talibs? Were they rivals to each other? Did they have different beliefs or ideologies?

GarryB wrote:The group called the Mujahedeen in afghanistan in the 1980s were afghans... the group called the taleban in the 1990s were afghans.. suggesting they were totally different groups is fine because they were, but suggesting they were totally different people is stupid... most of the taleban from the 1990s were likely muj in the 80s if they were alive then.

The main difference was that the taleban were Pakistan funded.

Osama Bin Laden was a Muj but was never a taleban he was Al Quada... he was friends with the Taleban they gave him refuge.

He made most of his money in Afghanistan in the 1980s building things... he was an engineer and worked on the aqueducts... mostly from US money through Pakistan and Saudi money who knew he was a nutter and basically paid him to not hurt them.

Think of the muj and taleban as two separate factions... the third faction being government forces installed by the Soviets when they were in power and after they left.

The Muj constantly changed sides between rebel and government in the 1980s, and in the mid 1990s when the government forces collapsed it was taleban vs the remains of the muj, with the government forces mixed between the two.

The northern alliance were a different ethnic group from the southern afghans... can't remember the two different groups off hand, but the northern ones  were different from the southern ones... the southern ones were kin to pakistan, while the northern ones were kin to the stans in the former soviet union... the southern afghans tended to be taleban while the northern alliance was supported by Russian and I believe Iran.

The Northern Alliance was I believe was Turkmen, Tajiks and Uzbeks, as well as Hazaras; who are basically the descendants (heavily mixed by now) of the Mongol garrisons that Genghis Khan ordered to occupy Afghanistan after he conquered it.

About the Taliban being Pakistani-funded; certainly - but then so were the Mujas too.

GarryB wrote:I seem to remember the country was largely split in half with the lower half being closely related to Punjab or the Pakistanis, while the northern half being related to the Soviet republics to its north.
All factions fought the Soviet "invaders", except the government faction, which were simply afghans who were pro Soviet.

When the Soviets left, the anti soviet coalition collapsed as there was no reason for them to exist anymore, and the factions fought between themselves for control of the country.

With lots of money, the taleban were able to gain an upper hand and ended up taking over from the government forces... some of which joined the taleban and some the northern alliance.

So in the 1980s there were afghans fighting for the soviets (government forces) and against the soviets (pro iran, pro pakistan/US/Saudi Arabia, plus those with no outside support that just didn't like invaders).

In the 1990s there was no soviet occupation force to fight and the money from the US dried up and Iran largely lost interest too, but the people fighting didn't suddenly arrive from somewhere... all the factions that existed changed goals and swapped members.

An individual could have conceivably fought on all sides... when conscripted in the army in the 1980s he might have fought for the government forces (pro Soviet), but then got fed up and deserted and went home to find Soviet and Afghan government forces attacking his village so he joins the Muj resistance. Or the government forces and soviets might be attacking a rival village so he returns to his conscript unit and fights for the government again.

then in the 1990s the government fights on but the Soviets have left... he might join the northern alliance or the taleban... which ever side he joins he might get captured and swap sides.

So, if The Mujas and the Talibs were different groups, is it fair to say that one is Muslims radical (Talibs) and the other one (Mujas) were simple Muslims, who were not radical in anyway, but they simply wanted to preserve Afghanistan to be Muslim rather than anything else i.e. Soviet regime? What is the main difference between Muj and Talibs? Were they rivals to each other? Did they have different beliefs or ideologies?

Both were muslim groups... one might argue that the taleban were hardliners and the average afghan was just fighting foreigners influence, but both sides were pretty brutal.

A bit like a Pepsi/Coca Cola war... both fizzy drinks that will kill you, but which is best?

(BTW if you don't know which is best... no one else can tell you... it is up to you. Some one can tell you which they like best but that does not influence which you will like best... you have to try it yourself to know.)

an informative answer, thank you. So do Mujihadeens exist now or not? Also, did the Soviets invade Afghanistan to install Soviet regime? I remember reading that the Soviets didn't invade on the own accord but were asked to help by then pro Soviet government to fight off the rebels I.e. Mujas. Is it right?

andrewlya wrote:

GarryB wrote:I seem to remember the country was largely split in half with the lower half being closely related to Punjab or the Pakistanis, while the northern half being related to the Soviet republics to its north.
All factions fought the Soviet "invaders", except the government faction, which were simply afghans who were pro Soviet.

When the Soviets left, the anti soviet coalition collapsed as there was no reason for them to exist anymore, and the factions fought between themselves for control of the country.

With lots of money, the taleban were able to gain an upper hand and ended up taking over from the government forces... some of which joined the taleban and some the northern alliance.

So in the 1980s there were afghans fighting for the soviets (government forces) and against the soviets (pro iran, pro pakistan/US/Saudi Arabia, plus those with no outside support that just didn't like invaders).

In the 1990s there was no soviet occupation force to fight and the money from the US dried up and Iran largely lost interest too, but the people fighting didn't suddenly arrive from somewhere... all the factions that existed changed goals and swapped members.

An individual could have conceivably fought on all sides... when conscripted in the army in the 1980s he might have fought for the government forces (pro Soviet), but then got fed up and deserted and went home to find Soviet and Afghan government forces attacking his village so he joins the Muj resistance. Or the government forces and soviets might be attacking a rival village so he returns to his conscript unit and fights for the government again.

then in the 1990s the government fights on but the Soviets have left... he might join the northern alliance or the taleban... which ever side he joins he might get captured and swap sides.

So, if The Mujas and the Talibs were different groups, is it fair to say that one is Muslims radical (Talibs) and the other one (Mujas) were simple Muslims, who were not radical in anyway, but they simply wanted to preserve Afghanistan to be Muslim rather than anything else i.e. Soviet regime? What is the main difference between Muj and Talibs? Were they rivals to each other? Did they have different beliefs or ideologies?

Both were muslim groups... one might argue that the taleban were hardliners and the average afghan was just fighting foreigners influence, but both sides were pretty brutal.

A bit like a Pepsi/Coca Cola war... both fizzy drinks that will kill you, but which is best?

(BTW if you don't know which is best... no one else can tell you... it is up to you. Some one can tell you which they like best but that does not influence which you will like best... you have to try it yourself to know.)

an informative answer, thank you. So do Mujihadeens exist now or not? Also, did the Soviets invade Afghanistan to install Soviet regime? I remember reading that the Soviets didn't invade on the own accord but were asked to help by then pro Soviet government to fight off the rebels I.e. Mujas. Is it right?

Half the Mujahedins are in the current Afghan ruling government. Another half is either dead, from US intervention either has become Taliban. Afghan regime was Soviet client since 1950's. It became Soviet aligned in 1970's.

Northern Alliance was heavily supported by Russia in the 90s and effectively became a buffer state against the more radical Taliban.

That didn't stop neighbouring Tajikistan from collapsing to its own government vs. Islamist civil war around that time, but it did perhaps stop it from losing it.

In general, Russia acted quickly and effectively to stop Islamic fundamentalism from penetrating into Central Asia in the wake of post-Soviet anarchy.
It wasn't as successful in the Caucasus.

flamming_python wrote:Northern Alliance was heavily supported by Russia in the 90s and effectively became a buffer state against the more radical Taliban.

That didn't stop neighbouring Tajikistan from collapsing to its own government vs. Islamist civil war around that time, but it did perhaps stop it from losing it.

In general, Russia acted quickly and effectively to stop Islamic fundamentalism from penetrating into Central Asia in the wake of post-Soviet anarchy.
It wasn't as successful in the Caucasus.

Let's not actually deform the reality. It wasn't heavily supported, it was kept alive. Especially when Asshole Massoud agreed to not shed his opium shit in the CIS but transited it through Iran and Turkey. Masoud kept killing Russians even when they weren't in Afghanistan. It was with his dope money that he could survive. When Iran started calling his shit up, Massoud almost went extinct. At that point the Taliban had imposed a strict limit on Opium prduction which allowed them to be left alone for some time. Then Ben Laden did what he did and Masoud passed. In two months the "Northern Alliance recived from Russian and Uzbek storage about 200 tanks tons of ammo, tons of ordnance and commo means.

This was channeled through the Uzbek guy, Dostum. Do not mistake helping your own (former DRA cadre) and helping a scumbag motherfucker who is only lionized among dope smoking westerners. Fuck Massoud and his supposedly gallant fight. That's also why Dostum, the most effective commander has also the worst press in Western countries. Cuz he ain't their sum'bitch.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Northern Alliance was heavily supported by Russia in the 90s and effectively became a buffer state against the more radical Taliban.

That didn't stop neighbouring Tajikistan from collapsing to its own government vs. Islamist civil war around that time, but it did perhaps stop it from losing it.

In general, Russia acted quickly and effectively to stop Islamic fundamentalism from penetrating into Central Asia in the wake of post-Soviet anarchy.
It wasn't as successful in the Caucasus.

Let's not actually deform the reality. It wasn't heavily supported, it was kept alive. Especially when Asshole Massoud agreed to not shed his opium shit in the CIS but transited it through Iran and Turkey. Masoud kept killing Russians even when they weren't in Afghanistan. It was with his dope money that he could survive. When Iran started calling his shit up, Massoud almost went extinct. At that point the Taliban had imposed a strict limit on Opium prduction which allowed them to be left alone for some time. Then Ben Laden did what he did and Masoud passed. In two months the "Northern Alliance recived from Russian and Uzbek storage about 200 tanks tons of ammo, tons of ordnance and commo means.

This was channeled through the Uzbek guy, Dostum. Do not mistake helping your own (former DRA cadre) and helping a scumbag motherfucker who is only lionized among dope smoking westerners. Fuck Massoud and his supposedly gallant fight. That's also why Dostum, the most effective commander has also the worst press in Western countries. Cuz he ain't their sum'bitch.

I don't care much for Masoud, but the Northern Alliance itself was pretty useful. I believe it received arms and ammo from Russia.
Among the Northern Alliance were many former Mujahadeen but also many ex-Afghan Army and militias formerly loyal to the Soviet-installed government while it was still around.

UN Envoy Calls on Afghan Government to Hold Talks With Taliban

The head of the UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) called on Thursday on the Afghan government to hold peace talks with the Taliban to decrease the number of victims in the hostilities.

UNITED NATIONS (Sputnik) — Earlier, government delegations held talks with the Taliban in July.

"I reiterate my call for direct engagement between the Taliban and the [Afghan] Government," Nicholas Haysom said in a statement.

Haysom admitted that this year had already become the deadliest since UNAMA started recording casualties.

He said that many extremists and terrorist organizations came to Afghanistan from neighboring states, bringing violence to the country, which is why he is also calling on Afghanistan's neighbors to intensify their fight against terrorism.

Afghanistan continues to be in the state of political and social turmoil, with the Taliban movement redoubling their insurgency across the country and the Islamic State militant group taking advantage of the instability to gain a foothold in the country.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150917/1027161075.html#ixzz3m2VHRNo0

George1 wrote:UN Envoy Calls on Afghan Government to Hold Talks With Taliban

The head of the UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) called on Thursday on the Afghan government to hold peace talks with the Taliban to decrease the number of victims in the hostilities.

UNITED NATIONS (Sputnik) — Earlier, government delegations held talks with the Taliban in July.

"I reiterate my call for direct engagement between the Taliban and the [Afghan] Government," Nicholas Haysom said in a statement.

Haysom admitted that this year had already become the deadliest since UNAMA started recording casualties.

He said that many extremists and terrorist organizations came to Afghanistan from neighboring states, bringing violence to the country, which is why he is also calling on Afghanistan's neighbors to intensify their fight against terrorism.

Afghanistan continues to be in the state of political and social turmoil, with the Taliban movement redoubling their insurgency across the country and the Islamic State militant group taking advantage of the instability to gain a foothold in the country.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150917/1027161075.html#ixzz3m2VHRNo0

So, this is the result of the longest war in history of human kind? What did NATO/US achieve by this pointless war?

US Withdrawal From Afghanistan Expected Despite Counterinsurgency Needs

There is still a need to fight the insurgency in Afghanistan despite US plans to fully withdraw troops by the end of 2016, Afghanistan Chief Executive Abdullah Abdullah’s deputy spokesman Javid Faisal told Sputnik.

UNITED NATIONS (Sputnik), Leandra Bernstein — In recent months, Afghanistan has faced a resurgent Taliban and a growing presence of Islamic State fighters in multiple parts of the country. Afghan authorities have also raised concerns over neighboring Pakistan’s role in harboring insurgents.

"We see that there still is need of more work to fight [the] insurgency," Faisal said on Tuesday. "We still need more efforts to tackle terrorism and still more work is needed to work on this problem."

The spokesman’s comments came after Chief Executive Abdullah’s remarks to the UN General Assembly on Monday calling for the international community to pay more attention to the global issue of terrorism.

President Barack Obama, however, continues to support the full withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan by the end of his term in office in 2016. Earlier this year, Obama promised Afghan President Ashraf Ghani that the United States would keep 10,000 troops in the country through the end of 2015.

The Afghan government would prefer troop withdrawal on the basis of "condition than timing," Faisal said, emphasizing that the Afghan government will respect any decision on troop levels determined by the US government.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150930/1027753586/US-Withdrawal-From-Afghanistan.html#ixzz3nB117xMH

Taliban Controls Afghan City of Kunduz

The Taliban’s latest advances toward the provincial capital of Kunduz in Afghanistan resulted in the freeing of 900 prisoners, widespread theft within state and foreign institutions and fires set in their buildings.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Media reports of Afghan forces’ Tuesday offensive against Taliban fundamentalist militants who captured the city of Kunduz in northern Afghanistan are inaccurate, a local source told Sputnik Dari.

Taliban militants captured their former stronghold of Kunduz on Monday. Media reports claimed government forces were able to clear the territory around several administrative buildings in Kunduz, with the support of US airstrikes, during an offensive the following day.

"There is no question of the Afghan army’s massive offensive. Its units are two kilometers [1.2 miles] from the city, near the airport and the central part of the city," the source in Kunduz, an Afghan journalist, said.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, the journalist said Afghan army units were also stationed in cities and towns in the province of Kunduz that were not under Taliban control.

The Taliban’s latest advances toward the provincial capital named Kunduz resulted in the freeing of 900 prisoners, widespread theft within state and foreign institutions and fires set in their buildings, the source said.

Witnesses on the ground contend that the Taliban’s recapture of the city of Kunduz was carefully planned.

Hundreds of militants were divided into several groups, which took part in the release of prisoners and breaking into the provincial council, security office and the UNAMA United Nations assistance mission in Afghanistan, according to eyewitnesses. Other accounts claim that the Taliban gained control of private banks and set fire to a municipal radio station.

The source cited a local health department saying hundreds of civilians sought medical attention and were hospitalized in critical condition.

"Their numbers are growing, there is no space in hospitals and the wounded cannot be transported to other cities," the reporter said.

The Afghan Ministry of Public Health said earlier on Tuesday at least 16 people have been killed and 172 injured during the Taliban offensive on Monday.

The Taliban insurgency has persisted in Afghanistan despite the US and NATO’s 13-year war on terrorism in the country.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150929/1027728744/taliban-controls-afghan-city-of-kunduz.html#ixzz3nB2dEDyO

Nearly a dozen people have lost their lives after a military transport aircraft operated by the US military crashed in eastern Afghanistan near the border with Pakistan.

The four-engine turboprop Lockheed C-130 Hercules plane went down at Jalalabad Airport, located approximately 150 kilometers (93 miles) east of the capital, Kabul, at about midnight local time on Friday morning (1930 GMT Thursday), AFP reported.

US Army Colonel Brian Tribus said six American soldiers serving with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) were killed in the accident. Five contractors working for the NATO-led Resolute Support mission also died.
The Taliban has claimed responsibility for shooting down the C-130, according to AFP
“Our mujahideen have shot down a four-engine US aircraft in Jalalabad,” AFP cited Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid as saying. “Based on credible information, 15 invading forces and a number of puppet troops were killed.”

Russia is to blame

To watch the courageous Afghan freedom fighters battle modern arsenals with simple hand held weapons is a inspiration to those who love freedom. Their courage teaches us a great lesson - that there are things in this world worth defending !!!

Solncepek wrote:Nearly a dozen people have lost their lives after a military transport aircraft operated by the US military crashed in eastern Afghanistan near the border with Pakistan.

The four-engine turboprop Lockheed C-130 Hercules plane went down at Jalalabad Airport, located approximately 150 kilometers (93 miles) east of the capital, Kabul, at about midnight local time on Friday morning (1930 GMT Thursday), AFP reported.

US Army Colonel Brian Tribus said six American soldiers serving with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) were killed in the accident. Five contractors working for the NATO-led Resolute Support mission also died.
The Taliban has claimed responsibility for shooting down the C-130, according to AFP
“Our mujahideen have shot down a four-engine US aircraft in Jalalabad,” AFP cited Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid as saying. “Based on credible information, 15 invading forces and a number of puppet troops were killed.”

Russia is to blame

To watch the courageous Afghan freedom fighters battle modern arsenals with simple hand held weapons is a inspiration to those who love freedom. Their courage teaches us a great lesson - that there are things in this world worth defending !!!

That was cold man. Jalalabad was shit back in the 80's it's too close to the Paki border, those wil go in and out. Too bad Amrika is nevr going to win here.

Solncepek wrote:Nearly a dozen people have lost their lives after a military transport aircraft operated by the US military crashed in eastern Afghanistan near the border with Pakistan.

The four-engine turboprop Lockheed C-130 Hercules plane went down at Jalalabad Airport, located approximately 150 kilometers (93 miles) east of the capital, Kabul, at about midnight local time on Friday morning (1930 GMT Thursday), AFP reported.

US Army Colonel Brian Tribus said six American soldiers serving with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) were killed in the accident. Five contractors working for the NATO-led Resolute Support mission also died.
The Taliban has claimed responsibility for shooting down the C-130, according to AFP
“Our mujahideen have shot down a four-engine US aircraft in Jalalabad,” AFP cited Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid as saying. “Based on credible information, 15 invading forces and a number of puppet troops were killed.”

Russia is to blame

To watch the courageous Afghan freedom fighters battle modern arsenals with simple hand held weapons is a inspiration to those who love freedom. Their courage teaches us a great lesson - that there are things in this world worth defending !!!

RIP to those who died,seeing planes crash is never pretty irrespective of whose they are. Have the americans commented yet?

Kunduz hospital bombed despite US knowing its exact location – Moscow: https://www.rt.com/news/317684-kunduz-hospital-bombed-notifications/

Rodinazombie wrote:

Solncepek wrote:Nearly a dozen people have lost their lives after a military transport aircraft operated by the US military crashed in eastern Afghanistan near the border with Pakistan.

The four-engine turboprop Lockheed C-130 Hercules plane went down at Jalalabad Airport, located approximately 150 kilometers (93 miles) east of the capital, Kabul, at about midnight local time on Friday morning (1930 GMT Thursday), AFP reported.

US Army Colonel Brian Tribus said six American soldiers serving with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) were killed in the accident. Five contractors working for the NATO-led Resolute Support mission also died.
The Taliban has claimed responsibility for shooting down the C-130, according to AFP
“Our mujahideen have shot down a four-engine US aircraft in Jalalabad,” AFP cited Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid as saying. “Based on credible information, 15 invading forces and a number of puppet troops were killed.”

Russia is to blame

To watch the courageous Afghan freedom fighters battle modern arsenals with simple hand held weapons is a inspiration to those who love freedom. Their courage teaches us a great lesson - that there are things in this world worth defending !!!

RIP to those who died,seeing planes crash is never pretty irrespective of whose they are. Have the americans commented yet?

It is true, Rest in Peace to those who perished.

GarryB wrote:

Kunduz hospital bombed despite US knowing its exact location – Moscow: https://www.rt.com/news/317684-kunduz-hospital-bombed-notifications/

Maybe they had the wrong maps... or thought their might be a chinese embassy there...

I would bet on the second one.

Russian General Staff calls SCO to pool efforts against threats from Afghanistan

The emerging military-political situation in Central Asia [ ...] indicate that the SCO member states’ joint efforts to negate the regional security threats [ ...] are badly needed, official said

MOSCOW, October 8. /TASS-DEFENSE/. The member states of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) should pool their efforts in order to prevent the use of Afghanistan as a tool for aggravating the situation in Central Asia, Sergei Istrakov, deputy chief of the Russian General Staff, said at an international conference on Afghanistan on Thursday.

"The emerging military-political situation in Central Asia and its estimated future indicate that the SCO member states’ joint efforts to negate the regional security threats emanating from Afghanistan are badly needed. Therefore, the capabilities of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization are utterly timely and relevant," Istrakov said.

He added the SCO countries were trying to neutralize the security threats independently "by taking unilateral economic, political and humanitarian measures". "The attempts no not enable them to stand up to new challenges and threats effectively," the General Staff deputy chief stressed.

Istrakov cited as an example the settlement of the Syrian crisis that proved that the efforts taken by the western counterterrorist coalition to fight the Islamic State have been in vain, "because the coalition members have different objectives and take uncoordinated efforts, and their activities boil down to simulating a proactive fight.".

What would be good is giving the Taliban some ATGM's. A couple of tens. What goes around comes around.

KoTeMoRe wrote:What would be good is giving the Taliban some ATGM's. A couple of tens. What goes around comes around.

Not a good idea. ISAF will be gone soon from Afghanistan, but Russia will have to protect former Soviet Central Asians republics forever. In this case Russia and the US share common interests in preventing the Taliban from controlling Afghanistan.

Svyatoslavich wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:What would be good is giving the Taliban some ATGM's. A couple of tens. What goes around comes around.

Not a good idea. ISAF will be gone soon from Afghanistan, but Russia will have to protect former Soviet Central Asians republics forever. In this case Russia and the US share common interests in preventing the Taliban from controlling Afghanistan.

US does not share that interest, they are the main source of not containing them but highly contaminating the entire region witch such scum. By now i take great offense when people who have layn down informations to them that USA is responsible for this "jihadi terrorism" still parrott bullshit like US fighting terrorism.

This combination of words; "USA fighting against terrorism", does not exist in the universe at all and are just a mere contradiction like a "thinking beheaded mastermind".