Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Share

    Poll

    Do you see a similarity in the events leading up to Iraq by the western axis to the present day attacks and allegations again Iran

    [ 7 ]
    78% [78%] 
    [ 2 ]
    22% [22%] 

    Total Votes: 9

    gloriousfatherland
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 99
    Points : 124
    Join date : 2011-10-01
    Age : 24
    Location : Zapad and Boctok strong

    Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:54 pm

    Recently, the proceeding video was shared to me What was immensely eye gouging in the analysis of the run-up to the events of March the 20th, 2003 was that of its similarity to the present situation with the Islamic Republic Of Iran.  Juxtaposing the stated nations above within the same parameters in terms of time period we noticed to point out a few the following:
    1. The falsifying of evidence to justify military action (Saudi assassination attempts, REFERENCES TO ANONYMOUS EXPERTS, use of outdated intelligence within the process of Data Mining(see recent IAEA report) and discrediting tactics against all prior IAEA inspections and reports.)
    2. Mainstream media/mediums being oblivious to the opinions of experts who are against the present status quo (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwxzt4iPkNE for the case that the media is oblivious to war, the main video prior to this implicitly shows media’s role in selling the 2003 war to the minds of the populace of the earth)
    3. War drumming by both political parties nigh upcoming elections (see this video @ 02:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4yDCUJJm_U&feature=share as it simply states due to the corruption in the congress and senate due to special interest groups that fund campaigns, and transmission of a message similar to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu29F8NfRvI , well also most users will notice it as “another bomb Iran thread” )
    4. The rallying/complicity of foreign governments (allies of the united states such as Saudi Arabia (see wiki leaks doc.), Britain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Os7NiRSw4&feature=related) … NATO in the conspiratorial plot against Iran.
    However, Iran is guilty of vile rhetoric stating “the Zionist regime will be no more”( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mScWWtRfGQ alluding in his speech to regime change with what I personally think is a Palestinian government running the show with Jerusalem) thus leaving the only justifiable concern to the Israeli government and he threatens to “seek regime change “ in the disputed area, without the recognition of the two state solution. I rather take this view of Iran as rather vacuous since Israel IS the SOLE possessor of Nuclear weapons which immediately concludes that any conventional takeover of Israel isn’t possible unless the conventional aggressor understands he will be given strategic nuclear strikes. Now Iran isn’t a stupid country, this is a little documentary on Iran:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dys3Isas0rQ
    As seen above, Iran since its inception has changed its borders very little, so it’s not really an aggressor. I doubt they would risk their Old Persian civilization for a conflict between two ethnic groups in the disputed territory that doesn’t even have any profit except the elimination of a US proxy government with the consequence of the increasing rate of increase in Arabs in conventional and strategic power against the Persians, which creates balance in the regions as the US and the USSR did in the world and hinders Iran from the virtue of being the dominant power in the region{the Persians and the Arabs are not the best of friends ;-) } as it is now both militarily and politically opposed by the Arabs. However with Israel present, Iran will not have supremacy but will possess more influence and be one of the sole regional powers relative to Turkey and Israel. So I think this have nothing to do with Israeli Palestinian conflicts and “the oppression”, but more so with the plundering of oil wealth and respect/recognition as a nation and society of the world. But then why would US/Iran want to risk war? I say probably because of a nuclear arms race which then places the clone governments in the Mideast at the same strata in the stratification of the world with the global imperialist powers therefore limiting the influence they have on the Mideast governments.

    The Mideast is very dynamic in its geopolitical microcosm. All we could do is speculating. But what we must ensure is that war never happens because if it does occur it will be black hole of the human populace of all the parties involved. Peace is of utmost importance in that region and as the rest of the world. Those politicians and those special interest groups must not use war as a way of promoting their goals; diplomacy is always the better option. They MUST realize the mind controls the actions, win the mind an you will get results.
    Written by Me.
    I wanted to post this on a forum i'm no longer on but the moderator said there were some anti western overtones.My response to them attack

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:23 am

    I wanted to post this on a forum i'm no longer on but the moderator said there were some anti western overtones.

    But freedom of speech is a core fundamental western belief. It is a human right.

    Sorry, but I think Freedom, Justice and the American way, should be changed to match the reality of today... suspicion, revenge and "it will be done the" American (governments') Way.

    gloriousfatherland
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 99
    Points : 124
    Join date : 2011-10-01
    Age : 24
    Location : Zapad and Boctok strong

    So what are your thoughts?

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:45 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I wanted to post this on a forum i'm no longer on but the moderator said there were some anti western overtones.

    But freedom of speech is a core fundamental western belief. It is a human right.

    Sorry, but I think Freedom, Justice and the American way, should be changed to match the reality of today... suspicion, revenge and "it will be done the" American (governments') Way.

    How would you describe the data mining by US companies?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:19 am


    How would you describe the data mining by US companies?

    I would describe it as unAmerican and in conflict with western ideology and morals.

    Of course the double standard is that because US companies are doing it it must be in the USs' best interests so it is OK.

    If China or Iran or Cuba did it it would be a serious threat to US national security and a terrible violation of human rights to privacy and freedom.

    Funny thing is I caught an advert for a documentary about Stalin on the History Channel just yesterday and the narrator said that paranoid Stalin even spied on his western allies during WWII. Cough cough... Echelon Cough cough.

    gloriousfatherland
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 99
    Points : 124
    Join date : 2011-10-01
    Age : 24
    Location : Zapad and Boctok strong

    The Build Up To 2003 Iraq

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:43 am

    Here is is great american made documentary on Iraq:


    Again, you just juxtapose Iran with Iraq, and you see the similar lies.
    It would still be the same outcome for the necons, america will ie fail in both military and political objectives, but cripple Iran economically. Its sad that those troops form both sides will die due to grey haired white men in washington DC.Shame on you .
    Here is a song for these war mongers:

    Have a nice day! thumbsup

    Corrosion
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 196
    Points : 213
    Join date : 2010-10-19

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  Corrosion on Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:07 am

    April Talks Last Chance for Iran to Avoid U.S. Attack - Hillary Clinton

    Source: http://www.defpro.com/news/details/33335/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

    Although she didnt say this thing openly to the press, but I think US definitely has some plan of attacking Iran. Lets see US is definitely fiddling with north Africa, entire middle east to south asia. Attack on Libya, trouble incited in Egypt, Iraq invaded, trouble incited in Syria, we know Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. If you look at the map...that is a constant belt of countries, if you take out some minor countries or the ones where they have good leverage anyway such as Saudi Arabia and UAE etc.

    You can even say it is heading towards total control over middle Eastern crude Oil and maybe even its export flow.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:34 pm

    Except I think they are yet again underestimating the Iranians and the low chance of success of an actual attack, and the consequences of its therefore inevidible failure.

    Iran will become unified and militant and will likely decide to lash out at all US forces in the region... that means an unstoppable flow of MANPADs and ATGMs into Afghanistan and Iraq, which will cripple US operations and make both places anarchic shtholes... well... it will make them worse.

    I rather suspect that one measure will be to launch a missile attack against Israel, and I suspect that rather than a ballistic missile attack it will be a cruise missile attack that actually breach the Israeli defences.

    What payload??? Uranium enriched to the level where it is lethal, in pellet form and a core HE exploding charge to spread those pellets over a wide radius...

    And of course closing shipping to the Persian Gulf... in places it is not very wide at all and low flying aircraft and even rocket artillery could be used to place mines continuously... even shore launched Shval high speed torpedoes could be used to take out anti mine vessels and any oil tanker that tries to sneak through.

    Of course this time the US is bluffing... if they really wanted to attack they would do so and there would be no prior warnings given.

    The reality of bombing deep bunkers is that unless you actually know where the underground bunker actually is then you can't actually do much about it.

    From the surface, or more accurately space, you can locate entrances easily just because of the traffic, but to locate the actual position of the underground facility is something else.

    The tunnels to the facility will not be straight so that bombs could not be guided down the entrance tunnel and hit the facility.

    The facility itself could be anywhere in relation to the entrances and vents and you need to get your penetrator fairly close to the actual facility or it will be totally ineffective.

    These bunkers will be very strong and anything short of a direct hit is useless.

    Cruise missiles are useless in this case as they lack penetration... to be effective you would need to fly at high altitude over the facilities and drop a very large custom designed penetrator bomb... the choice of aircraft would be very limited and really the only aircraft able to do it would be the B-2 and even then you either risk sending it without aircover so its attack comes as a surprise, but if they can detect it then it could be ambushed by fighter aircraft and shot down with cannon fire... I am sure the USN would be secretly proud if the F-14 made one last kill...
    The other option would be to send over lots of fighters and jammers in a brute force attack.

    They will need to hit quite a few targets at once including the facilities themselves as well as comms centres and major radar sites, and problably airfields as well to cause some confusion.

    I rather doubt their ability to kill everyone connected to the program and hitting the Russian made civilian reactor could kill Russian scientists which could lead to problems too.

    Mr.Kalishnikov47
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 298
    Points : 341
    Join date : 2012-02-25
    Age : 28
    Location : U.S.A

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:29 pm

    Hey GloriousFatherland, any chance you could space out your paragraphs next time? That wall of text was a little hard to read. Smile

    About Iran, it's simple. Iran is becoming powerful, Israel doesn't want Iran to be powerful, Israel and the U.S want to keep the entire Middle East Undeveloped and backward, to stop them from posing any kind of threat.

    So together, The U.S and Israel have made Iranian government out to be some kind of evil rogue nation bent on destroying the world, same as they did with the USSR. Now every Western citizen hates Iran, just like they hated russia back in 2008, just like they still hate Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Don't you know, that's just how we roll. Cool Spreading freedom and democracy since 1945 Rolling Eyes

    [img][/img]

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:27 pm

    Don't you know, that's just how we roll. Cool Spreading freedom and democracy since 1945 Rolling Eyes

    Honest for the most part of your post and then this...

    Follow through my friend... don't hide behind sarcasm... say it out loud.

    It is amazing the number of westerners that will happily agree that their governments lie to them much of the time, yet they still believe their own governments when they say Saddam is evil or Iraq is evil or Iran.

    Your government lies to you but you stand behind those lies when you don't expose them for what they are.

    Don't you know, that's just how we roll. Cool Spreading lies and hate since 1945

    And of course don't forget the real legasy of the west... its most powerful tool has not been its military... which was ineffective on the war on drugs and in Korea and Vietnam and even Somalia and Kosovo, its most powerful tool is economic sanctions... there is a reason why people are starving in North Korea. Iran should be like Saudi Arabia. Cuba should be a paradise island...

    And if you claim these countries are poor because of communism then how come Chinas economy is booming?

    Communism is not the problem... p!ssing off the US was the problem for all of these countries.


    Mr.Kalishnikov47
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 298
    Points : 341
    Join date : 2012-02-25
    Age : 28
    Location : U.S.A

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:32 am

    My apologies Garry, I did not mean to sound sarcastic, the last part was more of a lighthearted joke than anything. I was not trying to hide behind sarcasm, what I meant was that the U.S will roll into a country, replace it's government, bomb its buildings, kill innocent people, whether by accident or intentionally, and then have the nerve to call it "Spreading democracy" Hence the picture at the end.

    dropping bombs on a non aggressive country is not spreading freedom. It's a corrupt empire spreading it's influence across the world by force, and then somehow convincing it's people, and indeed, a good portion of the world, that it's the good guy.

    Is that better?


    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:49 am

    No need for apologies even if you think what the US government does is right and good you can say as much...

    By being very clear then everyone knows exactly what you mean.

    I live a western way of life... I didn't get that from Americas generosity... it is true that 60 odd years ago the Japanese expanded into the Pacific and pushed the British and French colonial forces aside very easily and it was the attack on Pearl Harbour that really ensured they didn't extend their reach to New Zealand, but lets be honest... until the US was actually directly attacked they didn't lift a finger to help New Zealand, and while we are being honest it was economic blockades of Japan cutting off energy and material resources that triggered the expansion of the Japanese empire south in the first place.

    The US is a superpower, which means it can pretty much get away with a lot of things most other countries would not even consider.

    It seems that the US government has become accustomed to motivate the people of America in particular and the west in general with a few particular buttons... spreading democracy or removing a dictatorship, terrorism or drugs, and of course the old faithful weapons of mass destruction. Of course a bucket of water is a WMD because you can drown millions of people in it... if you can get them to line up and one by one put their faces underwater till they are dead.

    The obvious problem they always ignore is even if these dangerous enemies could develop an actual weapon system they almost never have the capacity to deliver and actually make it effective.

    The secret is the language... a threat to security is a threat to the US's economic interests. Bringing democracy to a region means that dictator is no longer taking bribes and instructions from us and needs to be replaced.
    A war on drugs usually means the local secret police need more money to make more people disappear.

    Of course when you apply the moral standards tint in the sunglasses range the actions of the US and west seems random and a bit erratic. When you look though the US economic and political interests range of sunglasses it all makes sense...

    Corrosion
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 196
    Points : 213
    Join date : 2010-10-19

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  Corrosion on Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:42 pm

    Spreading democracy is one of the most silly arguments that come from within US every few months. Seems like they are more worried about democracy in Middle East, North Korea etc., but blatantly ignore much of their allies and their trading partners which are not democratic. Guess what they are happy to get oil from Saudi Arabia and defend them militarily and procure everything from a t-shirt to a telephone from China. Very Happy

    The BRICS countries, which include Brazil, Russia, India and China, have been listed among those posing a threat to the US national security along with terrorism, cyber attacks, and the nuclear programs of Iran and North Korea. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta urged Washington to protect the planet against these countries’ attempts to ruin global stability.
    Source:Igor Levkov/ Available at: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26496

    Protect the planet?? Rolling Eyes More than 40% of planet's population live in BRICS countries. And when an average US citizen listens to Mr. Panetta, he/she will most likely believe him.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:58 am

    Hahahahahahaha... more importantly the world no longer trusts the western based global economy structure.

    The world bank and IMF are just tools of the west to further their own interests and maintain their own dominant position.

    The huge irony is that the establishment of a BRICS alternative to these organisations would actually improve growth and stability in a lot of poor nations around the world, what it would do however is break the US dollar as the international currency which would be catastrophic for the US economy... printing money wouldn't work any more if there was no demand for US dollars.

    The World Bank and IMF played a cynical game of lending money to countries for schemes they didn't need to put them in debt so they could take control.

    In a way it is like the EU... the Euro has basically crippled several EU countries and in return for so called help these countries give up their soverignty and become drones controlled by Brussels.

    The purpose of the IMF was to lend an enormous sum of money to a poor country for something they didn't really need like a hydro electric dam in a country where there is no infrastructure to deliver that power let alone a population so poor they can't afford electrical appliances anyway. The result is a country in debt to the IMF, which means the main contributers to the IMF can now dictate that countries foreign policy which opens that country to international companies.

    The fundamental flaw of the west is that while it appears on the surface to care and be "nice" just under the surface is a paranoid child that wants no one else to succeed and become a threat so it tries to keep everyone down.

    Hopefully a new BRICS based system will know what poverty is as most have been there... even in the last few decades, and they will realise that helping poorer countries to grow while growing yourself is a GOOD THING FOR EVERYONE.

    Sure, there is a chance that one of the countries you help might turn and bite you on the a$$... but they might grow and become strong anyway and their treatment of you might reflect your treatment of them now...

    Corrosion
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 196
    Points : 213
    Join date : 2010-10-19

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  Corrosion on Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:01 am

    Actually it will take some years for BRICS to do something substantial provided things remain stable. If India and China can sort out their silly differences and begin to trust each other bit more, that will help as well. But a major thing that happened during recent summit was that all collectively opposed any military invasion of Iran or Syria by the USA & Co.

    gloriousfatherland
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 99
    Points : 124
    Join date : 2011-10-01
    Age : 24
    Location : Zapad and Boctok strong

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:21 am


    Sponsored content

    Re: Iran, Iraq: The Picture Perfect Similarities

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 10:11 pm


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:11 pm