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    BUK SAM system Thread

    GarryB
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    BUK SAM system Thread - Page 9 Empty Re: BUK SAM system Thread

    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:30 am

    Any reason why they didn't make it a vertical launch system? Obviously it can be done since Shtil for navy ships is vertical launch BUK.

    For a land mobile system, only very small systems like TOR or stationary systems like S-300 will have vertical launch missiles.

    BUK is likely to be operated from short stops operating with an armoured unit... so being able to slew the missiles onto the target and elevate them 30 or 40 degrees to fire is faster than having to elevate them 90 degrees to vertical to fire.

    Poor mans S-350 at this point.

    It is an upgraded Army system.

    Hell, the 9M96 is a smaller missile.

    Both missiles in the S-350 family will be smaller and wont have the 70kg warhead of the new BUK, which might effect their performance against some types of targets.

    Most export operators take wheeled units in any case, so in that case the Buks tracks work against it. In any case, you can put Buk on a wheeled MZKT chassis.

    BUK is an Army system... there is a reason it is mounted on tracks... just the same as Tunguska, and S-300V4.

    S-350E is sold with 60km range, Buk was, what, 70km last I checked? Of course we all know S-350 range can be extended to 120km+ with ease, unlike Buk which is already at the limit of its envelope.

    S-350 has two missiles... a smaller missile and a larger missile.

    BUK is designed for a specific role... medium range defence of mobile armour units.

    Their up time form march is probably identical- old S-300 could do it in 5 minutes.

    I rather suspect launch times from a short halt are measured in seconds... not minutes.

    the fact that they don't have vertical launch tubes suggest they don't want to spend time raising the missiles 90 degrees every time they stop.

    If it was up to me, I would dump Buk altogether. Instead, integrate S-300V4 with 9M96 missiles, and buy tracked Pantsir-S1 for close in defense and attach it to S-300V4 units.

    That sort of logic sounds good, but you can end up with... hey... lets replace all those 4th gen fighters with the F-35...

    The Russian Army already has BUK in service... replacing it with S-350 wont actually help in standardising because they don't already have the S-300 or S-400 in service which the S-350 is related.

    If you want to dump the BUK then why keep S-300V4? Dump them too and introduce S-400 and just have the Air Forces SAM set.

    The Russian Army understands standardisation, but it also understands that its specific needs are not the same as the other branches, so having two different families of SAMs between four branches of military (ie PVO and VVS have one family, while the Army has its own family and the Navy has a mix of the two different families....)
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    Post  George1 Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:27 pm

    Russian Armed Forces to receive Buk-M3 air defense missile system before yearend — source
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:18 am

    BUK SAM system Thread - Page 9 6pKCt
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:53 am

    Extremely good article about the BUK capabilities in regard to low flying cruise missiles and HARM like targets from the

    "Alexander G. Luzan - Doctor of Technical Sciences, State Prize of the Russian Federation in the field of science and technology, Lieutenant General in retirement, from 1982 to 1992 - deputy commander (chief) of the Air Defense Forces Land Forces for armaments - chief engineer troops CB defense"


    Aerospace attack

    Whole article is great but I will copy-paste the part about the BUK from shity google translator but you will get the point:

    Research and experiments, including the conduct of experimental firings show that quite effectively and with minimal financial and time-consuming to solve this problem is possible by using modern multi-channel anti-aircraft missile system of medium-range (AAMS DM) "Buk-M2", and short term - "Buk-M3."

    AAMS firing system "Buk-M2" as part of a multi-channel radar illumination and guidance (RPN) and puskozaryazhayuschih units (ROM) provides for the passage of fire zones 8-12, and with the self-propelled fire installation (SDA), a member other than RPN and ROM in the antiaircraft missile batteries - 12-18 cruise missiles at the height of their flight 10 m or more. A total of S "Buk-M2" (anti-aircraft missile battalion) provides 24 target channel, ie it can simultaneously bombard 24 air targets, and for the passage of the affected area - 32-46 aerial targets.

    By American standards, worked out as a result of combat use of cruise missiles "Tomahawk" and spent the estimates "... to defeat the object of the" medium-sized enterprise "or" airport "is required from 8-10 to 15-20 cruise missiles with the possibility of opposing forces and air defense systems. Consumption needs of these weapons to destroy target area of ​​the "terrorist camp" with the destruction of up to 70% situated therein personnel may be from 4-5 to 10-11 rockets. "

    Thus, the AAMS "Buk-M2" certainly capable to reflect the expected raid outfit KR operating at extremely low altitudes. In this case, the probability of hitting one of the KR-Zour in the system "Buk-M2" is higher than that of S family of S-300P, due to the implementation in the tap changer (SDA) mode recognition target type and adaptation of military equipment under the recognized type of missiles hitting targets. The same mode reduces the average consumption per missiles hit by a goal. In addition, AAMS SAM "Buk-M2" cheaper than the main rocket family of S-300P, which is important.

    BET Russian producers

    Compare the capabilities of S "Buk-M2" and the family of S-300P With anti-cruise missile makes sense because only these vehicles have special devices to raise a considerable height (20-30 m) antenna systems-fire radar systems to extend the range line of sight, and thus enhancing the far boundaries of the affected area of ​​cruise missiles operating at extremely low altitudes.

    According to the maximum range of the defeat of these goals possible commensurate systems (AAMS "Buk-M2" only 6% loses S-300PM2 by hitting range). However, the deployment of towers to lift the antenna systems in S-300PM2 almost 20 times, and its cost - 7.8 times higher than that of the telescopic tilt-up devices AAMS "Buk-M2". In addition, the tower, which is equipped with S-300PM2 commercially manufactures and supplies from abroad (Kramatorsk, Ukraine), and tilt-telescopic device AAMS "Buk-M2" produced in Russia.

    AAMS "Buk-M2" also provides an effective fight against tactical ballistic missiles and tactical classes and a high probability of their defeat, again due to the implementation of the system mode type detection purposes and adaptation of military equipment SAM. The studies were conducted by experienced combat shooting at targets not only imitating these ballistic missiles, but even on a relatively small-sized rockets MLRS "Smerch".

    Of adopting the new generation of SD AAMS "Buk-M3" has even higher performance. In our country and abroad anti-aircraft missile systems "Buk-M2" and "Buk-M3" counterparts do not have. Has not yet passed the test of S-350 "Vityaz" in the fight against the above objectives, as shown by analysis of a priori will have a lower combat capabilities due to the peculiarities inherent in her technical solutions.

    The application of the system of protection of critical facilities of S-range C-300PM2 "Favorite" and S-400 "Triumph" as unpromising and unjustified, since such systems are expensive, redundant on a number of non-critical characteristics Parry BSU and as a result essentially lose protection systems based air defense missile systems "Buk-M2 - M3" in terms of "cost-effectiveness".

    In this regard, it is necessary to consider the AAMS CD "Buk-M2" basic building block for high performance CVD critical facilities (areas) and it is advisable to consider extending the series production of S DM "Buk-M2" and equipping them as the Air Defense Forces Land Forces (in modification "Buk-M2") and troops EKO (a modification of "Buk-M2-1"). In the short term, these functions must be performed AAMS "Buk-M3" various modifications. On the same system must be in the future and to assign functions to combat future space-planning system and other hypersonic means.

    Combat stability SPECIAL PROTECTION SYSTEMS

    The system of protection of critical facilities (districts) should be not only highly efficient but also have a high combat stability when subjected to special means of combating it appointed to its defeat in the initial period of operations (for example, a special tier suppression of air defense of the "Wild Weasel" ). Saving combat performance ("survival") must provide reliable protection system recognition of further major shocks SVKN and WTO covers the object. This is clearly confirmed the war in Yugoslavia.

    Research and practical experiments have shown that achieve high survivability homogeneous grouping of air defense and its efficiency is not possible. The creation of so-called mixed groups in the classic sense, when dissimilar air defense assets are used with different positions (position areas) and controls each with their command post, fundamentally does not solve the problem.

    Solution to the problem of survival of air defense and defense systems based on them have been found by the joint use of these funds in a specific combination, that is based on the creation of homogeneous (monogamous) SAM and SAM systems combined (polygamous) reconnaissance and fire fighting equipment (modules).

    Polygamous combat modules allow defense at times to increase resistance against shocks anti-radar missiles (PRR) and the WTO, to maintain the system's ability to protect securely covered up to defend the object of subsequent major strokes SVKN and generally increase the efficiency of their defeat in typical raids (such as Iraq, Yugoslavia , Lebanon) to 0.9 or more.

    Naturally, air defense systems that are part of a polygamous defense system should function in a unified information-management space, created as part of the same automated reconnaissance and fire defense groups and managed from a single command center.

    Research, natural-digital simulation and a number of experimental firings showed that almost create a polygamous defense system most appropriate by the introduction of the AAMS CD "Buk-M2" combat vehicles short-range air defense missile systems "Tor-M2" (two MB SAM "trafficking in M2 "rather than two SDA and two ROM AAMS" Buk-M2 ") and completion of S KP" Buk-M2 "for combat operation" Tor-M2 "in a single information-management space. This can significantly increase the chances of a polygamous system of self-defense in the fight against the RDP type "Harm" to maintain its fighting capacity and combat potential.

    Calculations and fragments of field tests show that polygamous (joint) use of non-upgraded even AAMS "Buk-M1-2" and "Tor-M1" in a single information space control improves the efficiency of groups of more than 2.5 times, and the stability of the defeat anti-radar missiles (PRR) of the "Harm" - 8-12 times. Joint combat use SAM AAMS and new modifications "Buk-M2" and "Tor-M2" will achieve even better results and save for such means polygamous status of modern weapons to the level of 30-35-ies.

    By the way, this question back in 1998 to report to the Chief of the General Staff, was it approved, planned for implementation, but later "successfully swing" military officials.

    A further increase in the combat capabilities of systems to protect critical facilities-based air defense missile systems "Buk-M2" + "Tor-M2" is possible by introducing a missile seeker AAMS "Buk-M2" ("Buk-M3"), a special regime of passive DF producer of active interference and homing in on him. This offer is for a long time and is considering offers for sale here, but was virtually done by Chinese specialists in imported from Russia S-300PMU (Chinese name of S - FM-2000). The introduction of such a regime in the AAMS "Buk-M2 - M3" will dramatically change the balance of combat potentials in favor of air defense and make problematic use of active interference with the offensive boards manned and unmanned aircraft, as itself an obstacle becomes a source of information.

    The structure of "Tor-M2" (in the SAM), the introduction of a functional means of destruction (explosion generators). This will ensure effective control of such specific purposes as midget and small unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), acting directly on critical facilities in the immediate operational and tactical depth.

    It should be emphasized that this study, natural-digital simulation and experimental firings, which were mentioned above, showed that significantly improve survival systems protect critical objects in a massive impact on them PRR type "Harm" and other WTO was only when introduced into the composition of these groups BM "Tor - M2".

    Multifunctional system

    As part of a polygamous CVD critical facilities-based air defense missile systems (SAM) "Buk-M2" + "Tor-M2" is supposed to create a multi-site reconnaissance and targeting (URC). System of communication and data exchange URC and the GCC as a whole to have an open, envisaging it as a "gateway" means of obtaining information from early warning systems, regional formations and units of EKR and air defense military commands.

    The structure of the GCC PSBs should also include means for creating interference and reduce the effectiveness of space-based navigation systems such as GPS and avionics manned and unmanned SVKN (EW equipment). Previously, units and parts EW, although included in the Air Defense Forces, are fairly autonomously, and from the Air Defense Forces Land Forces have been withdrawn, are included in the Ground Forces as an independent branch of service and also used virtually autonomously. This has led not only to improve the efficiency of air defense groups, as to the need to address additional problems encountered by agreement of hostilities.

    However, the possibility of EW on the joint fight against SVKN, especially when coordinated action together with the AAMS (SAM) for CVD in a single information space control appreciated enough, major integrated research on this subject has been conducted, although the contribution of EW in improving the efficiency of security systems expect.

    However, information on the composition and construction of EW subsystems, including SVKN using these systems GPS, enough is confidential and may be viewed and discussed the formation of the tactical and technical specifications for concrete protection system.

    The same applies to the subsystem protection of critical facilities from terrorist attacks and attacks enemy ground. But not because of confidentiality, but rather a feature of the construction of a security subsystem depending on the dislocation of the object cover in a particular region or a country. However, such a subsystem in the protection of the PSB should be and function in a single information space with the control by other means.

    SOME RESULTS

    In conclusion, we must again emphasize the fact that in modern conditions the creation and deployment of highly specialized systems for the protection of critical (critical) sites is extremely important.

    This approach is precisely focused on countering asymmetric development and deployment of expensive high-precision weapons systems, cruise missiles, including long-range, and unmanned aerial vehicles (drones fighting) in most advanced countries, and the possibility of applying a material (unacceptable) impact on our strategic nuclear forces and other critical facilities.

    Proposals for the establishment of special protection systems are based on the use of commercially available weapons and actually do not require significant additional financial and material costs.

    It is hoped that the need for special protection systems particularly important (critical) sites (areas) will be evaluated, offers them demanded and accepted for implementation in our armed forces, and interested foreign customers, and build the structure, the basics of combat employment and functioning as part of the GCC troops EKR and defense in the theater - be the subject of discussion in the media.

    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    BUK SAM system Thread - Page 9 Empty Buk-M3

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Wed May 20, 2015 1:44 pm

    Buk-M3 launcher or transloader-launcher:


    BUK SAM system Thread - Page 9 Xgn9hie
    Kyo
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    Post  Kyo Wed May 20, 2015 2:41 pm

    Buk-M3's range has reached 70km. and in a number of parameters has surpassed S-300

    "First of all, we are talking about the probability of a hit with Buk-M3 is 0.9999, which is not the case with the S-300," - said a source in the Russian Defense Ministry. Besides, he added, "the maximum range of the complex has increased by 25 km when compared with its predecessor and brought up to 70 km."
    collegeboy16
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    Post  collegeboy16 Wed May 20, 2015 2:51 pm

    Kyo wrote:
    "First of all, we are talking about the probability of a hit with Buk-M3 is 0.9999, which is not the case with the S-300," - said a source in the Russian Defense Ministry. Besides, he added, "the maximum range of the complex has increased by 25 km when compared with its predecessor and brought up to 70 km."
    based Buk. couldnt wait to see it on armata/ kurganets chassis.
    medo
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    Post  medo Wed May 20, 2015 3:59 pm

    What is the most important here is, that production will start already in this year and Army will receive them in the beginning of the next year. S-300V4 and Buk-M3 will give excellent AD cover over ground forces and combine them with SHORADs like Tor-M2 and Pantsir and it will be very difficult for CAS planes and attack helicopters to come near to armor units on the front. T-14 and T-15 units will have excellent protection.
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    Post  Austin Wed May 20, 2015 7:28 pm

    Russia's Buk-M3 antiaircraft missile system surpasses S-300 in some parameters

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/795805
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed May 20, 2015 8:06 pm

    Austin wrote:Russia's Buk-M3 antiaircraft missile system surpasses S-300 in some parameters

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/795805

    'Surpasses S-300' sounds pretty vague, most likely they're saying that it's superior to the 'S-300 PS/PMU' which is really good news!
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Wed May 20, 2015 8:18 pm

    When they are talking surpassing, it is surpassing in terms of its range vs accuracy. So the BUK-M3 apparently reaches 70km range, and has a hit probability of something like .9998 which apparently, early S-300 models (that had ranges up to 90km, early P models I think) had less accuracy at 70km mark, making BUK-M3 more accurate than early S-300's. If the system is cheaper and easy to manufacture, then this is a huge +
    Anas Ali
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    BUK SAM system Thread - Page 9 Empty Air defence system Buk-m3

    Post  Anas Ali Wed May 20, 2015 9:49 pm

    hi

    i have heard lately alot of talks about the buk-m3 so my question is

    1.is there a picture for the system ?
    2.what is the specs ?

    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Wed May 20, 2015 10:27 pm

    Anas Ali wrote:

    i have heard lately alot of talks about the buk-m3 so my question is

    1.is there a picture for the system ?


    There are pictures, further up on this page, of the launcher (TELAR) and a missile only launcher (or launcher-transporter or launcher transloader).
    mack8
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    Post  mack8 Wed May 20, 2015 11:27 pm

    Unedited version of the pic posted by TR1:
    BUK SAM system Thread - Page 9 0_22c00f_b68ce865_XL
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    Post  Viktor Thu May 21, 2015 12:38 am

    Austin wrote:Russia's Buk-M3 antiaircraft missile system surpasses S-300 in some parameters

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/795805

    Yes, they are reffering to an initial S-300 range of abt. 50km. Most of the time Russians when they compare the systems they say 3 or 4 times better this or that system
    reffering to an initial version very rarely othervise.
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    Post  Viktor Thu May 21, 2015 12:42 am

    @Morpheus Eberhardt - my man

    thumbsup  I was hopping to see a picture like that.

    BUK-M3 is extremely powerfull system.
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    Post  Cyberspec Thu May 21, 2015 2:11 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Buk-M3 launcher or transloader-launcher:

    BUK SAM system Thread - Page 9 Th_165699698_B_M3_122_467lo
       

    12 missiles...nice

    Transporter vehicle for BUK-M3

    BUK SAM system Thread - Page 9 25289_original
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu May 21, 2015 4:33 am

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Buk-M3 launcher or transloader-launcher:

    BUK SAM system Thread - Page 9 Th_165699698_B_M3_122_467lo
       

    12 missiles...nice

    Transporter vehicle for BUK-M3

    BUK SAM system Thread - Page 9 25289_original

    I want to see this in the 2016 Victory Day Parade, as well as Morfey, Sosna, Hermes, and S-500...I don't want to wait until the 75th anniversary of Victory Day (2020) to see this! cry
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    Post  Austin Thu May 21, 2015 7:28 am

    A probability of 99.999 depends on the type of target they are trying to hit , if its a fighter type its very good , if its subsonic cruise missile type then its still ok.

    BTW did they go for Active Radar Homing for BUK-M3 or kept SARH type guidance ?
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    Post  Cyberspec Thu May 21, 2015 8:04 am

    There's a fair chance we might see the Buk-M3 since it's slated to enter service next year. They usually show off stuff that's about to enter service, as was the case with the Pantsir-S1
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Thu May 21, 2015 11:12 am

    Viktor wrote:@Morpheus Eberhardt - my man

    thumbsup  I was hopping to see a picture like that.

    BUK-M3 is extremely powerfull system.


    Thanks, Viktor.


    thumbsup
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri May 22, 2015 12:00 am

    i lenta pimping up Buk M3 capabilities? Or this is rather closer to real ones?

    after Lenta from May 20th
    A single anti-aircraft missile system army levels CHM "Buk-M3" is a profound improvement of the complex K "Buk-M2", standing on the arms of the Soviet and then Russian army since 1988. The complex is equipped with an upgraded rocket MM. The division of these "Books" is able to simultaneously bombard at range from 2.5 to 70 kilometers and at altitudes of up to 35 kilometers to 36 goals, moving at speeds up to 3 thousand meters per second.


    Not ordered yet but still an option Buk M4. AFTER iTAR-TASS, 20th of May

    According to the source TASS, the defense Ministry has not yet decided on the need to start developing a following modifications - Buk-M4". "There are no jobs on this complex from the Ministry of defense of the plant did not receive, - said the Agency interlocutor. - Thus, there was no contract and no funding."

    I wonder how potent it would be...
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    Post  Viktor Fri May 22, 2015 12:03 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Viktor wrote:@Morpheus Eberhardt - my man

    thumbsup  I was hopping to see a picture like that.

    BUK-M3 is extremely powerfull system.


    Thanks, Viktor.


    thumbsup

    It seems now obvious that BUK-M3 will have 6 missile load TELAR and 12 missile load TEL same as we saw in

    the Pancir-SM scheme.

    50% increase in ready to fire missile load. Increased range and lethality. Improved systems of command etc with the exceptional BUK mobility.

    In combination with the modernized BUK-M1-2 Russian AD sytems just got a loooooot more dangerous.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri May 22, 2015 12:22 am

    Viktor wrote:

    It seems now obvious that BUK-M3 will have 6 missile load TELAR and 12 missile load TEL same as we saw in

    the Pancir-SM scheme.

    50% increase in ready to fire missile load. Increased range and lethality. Improved systems of command etc with the exceptional BUK mobility.

    In combination with the modernized BUK-M1-2 Russian AD sytems just got a loooooot more dangerous.

    Why 12 Buk and 23 new Pantsir? maybe because main threat now are massive volleys of cruise missiles?
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    Post  calripson Fri May 22, 2015 3:55 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Viktor wrote:

    It seems now obvious that BUK-M3 will have 6 missile load TELAR and 12 missile load TEL same as we saw in

    the Pancir-SM scheme.

    50% increase in ready to fire missile load. Increased range and lethality. Improved systems of command etc with the exceptional BUK mobility.

    In combination with the modernized BUK-M1-2 Russian AD sytems just got a loooooot more dangerous.

    Why 12 Buk and 23 new Pantsir? maybe because main threat now are massive volleys of cruise missiles?

    Nope. Future is massed drone swarms.

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