Palestine Statehood bid

Russian Patriot wrote:Let me be clear: As long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad exist, the statehood will never be legal, and never accepted by Israel , US or the UN.

GarryB wrote:If only their solution was unique... then they could simply do what the Albanians did in Kosovo and just declare an independent state.

It is only a matter of time before Obama plays the Veto card and everything turns bad.

The real problem is that the leadership of Israel doesn't want peace and will make demands that there are no attacks on Israelis or talks are off.
This stupid an naieve attitude means that any individual with a chip on their shoulder from either side can prevent talks simply by blowing something up.
It gives all the control to the dickheads.

But of course it is not naieve, it is cynical because they know there are plenty of people who want revenge rather than peace, though they will likely call it justice in public.

ahmedfire wrote:

Russian Patriot wrote:Let me be clear: As long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad exist, the statehood will never be legal, and never accepted by Israel , US or the UN.

Let's be more clear here:

Propaganda in the west media convinced people there that israel fighting terrorists ,,the arab ones ...wow bombong the gaza strip including 1.2 million citizen in it seems agood way to fight terrorism ...zionism control the media in america and europe ,using it to serve their own goals,,i was talking with abritish guy two years ago...he doesn't know that name (palestine !!) he only know israel.!!.. this is what we called..... media influence.


joining islam with terrorism is asilly thinking
even muslim countries from time to another are bombed by terrorists
wow,how could u be an islamic terrorist and bomb islamic countries ?!! so Terrorism has no religion,,

HAMAS just defend her country just like FATH,,israel always put more and more obstacles in the way of negotiations ! what will you do if your country is occupied?

We (egyptians ) tried israels in the past when they occupies sinai,Only by force we restored our land back ,

do u really think israel could give the land it occupied through negotiations ?!

i don't see anear solution in future, israel should stop using force against innocent people,,asolution os 2-state would be good,
but israel doing somethings that delays and stopping that solution
such athing like separation wall : read


Human Rights:

Kofi Annan: "Israel's separation wall 'obstacle' to two-state solution" | The Electronic Intifada

http://electronicintifada.net/content/kofi-annan-israels-separation-wall-obstacle-two-state-solution/1370


the British journalist Jonathan Cook hit it right on when he wrote:

"[Israelis] know exactly what happens: their Zionist training simply blinds them to its significance. As long as the enemy is Arab, as long as the catch-all excuse of security can be invoked, and as long as they believe anti-Semitism lurks everywhere, then the Israeli public can sleep easy as another [Palestinian] child is shot riding his bike, another family's house is bulldozed, another woman miscarries at a checkpoint. ... It seems that a people raised to believe that anything can be done in its name -- as long as it serves the interests of Jews and their state -- has no need of ignorance. It can commit atrocities with eyes wide open." (29)

And this is not new. Zionist thinker, Ahad Ha'am, described the anti-Arab attitude of the Jewish settlers that came to Palestine to escape repression in Europe, long before Israel was created, as follows:

"Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora, and suddenly they find themselves in freedom [in Palestine]; and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination." (30)


israel crimes in palestine exceeded all limits,, by simple words ...Palestinian holocaust..

PHOTO GALLERY OF GAZA’S MARTYRED CHILDREN:

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/phopto-gallery-of-gazas-martyred-children/

when israel kill those and ,expand Settlement ,, remove buildings of palestinians and contiue on separation wall building......what do u expect from the other side ?!!
do u expect somthing good ?!!
any action has areaction ,,that reaction depend on that action

wow ,striking schools ,it is also contains terrorists

israel actions are not good,so it's simple..u can't expect agood behavior .from the other side.....

it's not only about ceasefire !! what is next ?!!!
is ceasing fire will solve the problem ?!!
how can u ceasefire and in the same time,raping lands day after another and expanding settlement and building separation wall??!
it's afake ceasefire
what can u expect from the other side ?!!
watching u doing that and keep silent !!!

do u know the meaning of settlement
imagine youself set in your bedroom after launch to get some rest and suddenly you find soldiers taking u and your family out of house coz this land will be included in that colony....,,oh that's aceasefire!!!!!

also hamas not always breaking ceasefire...israel also did

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1531571/Hamas-threatens-to-break-ceasefire-after-Israeli-air-strikes.html


hamas also accepted the 2 state solution:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915


see finkelstein...his father and mother died in the holcaust but he refuse the massacres of israel coz he know it well,he feels it coz he faced things like it by germans

These " freedom fighters" Hamas as you try to portray them, bomb Haifa ( where my family lives) with Qassam rockets 16 times a day, how is that fighting for freedom?

Israel only answers with airstrikes in retaliation to attacks ( which is why they attacked in 2007 , after Capt. Shalad was kidnapped)

About Bombing schools: Hamas openly admits to stockpiling weapons in civilian areas and uses citizens as human shields or better yet shadi (suicide bombers).

About Fatah: Even though they are now moderate, this is the same PLO which brought civil war in Lebanon with the Falange and Hezbollah in the 80's, and they want a state( with 1967 borders which Israel fairly won , including Jerusalem, mind you) while not even admitting Israel, how can Israel give land to factions that don't admit it?

Now Sinai, Israel gave you it back in 1979 , following a peace treaty in 1979 when Sadat was president of Egypt, and yet rather then help Israel defend its borders , against terrorists, your countrymen burn the Israeli embassy in Cairo, after a tragic mistake that could of been prevented due your border guards identifying themselves.

I agree Netanyhu was wrong in his act though, but I understand his motives..

Let me be clear: As long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad exist, the statehood will never be legal, and never accepted by Israel , US or the UN.

Pervius wrote:

The muslims have no idea about the technology Israel possesses. (Thanks to America).

GarryB wrote:The Israelis wouldn't attack a ship to distract attention... like the USS Liberty for example...

Not all Jews are Zionist Jews, there are plenty who protest the existence of a Juice state.

Today they are not good examples of moderate muslims and moderate muslims should speak out against them.

They should also speak out about the treatment in Saudi Arabia of women where women can't vote or even drive a car and have to spend all day dressed up like ninjas.... what do they wear to funerals?

I think if moderate muslims spoke out more against the actions of the idiots who use violence to get what they want that there would be much less confusion about the use of terrorism and the muslim faith.

Of course it is very selective minded westerners that forget Timothy McVeigh was not a muslim, and you could argue that it was the US governments over the top actions regarding policing that created the problem.

True, and we did ,we refused htem if they bombed trains ,aircrafts..etc that kill innocent people, the thing that little know that this actions are against our religion islam principles,

but if Taliban just fight U.S and west armies ,they have all right to do that.

Saudi Arabia is aspecial case, improvements on the way but slowly,from two months King Abdullah gives women in Saudi Arabia the right to vote ,He also announced that women would have the right to join the all-appointed Shura (consultative) Council,

Egypt has no land/ space based Directed Energy systems.

Israel could annihilate an army by pointing and clicking with a mouse

Egypt can't even control is own internal electronic communications systems.....to keep foreigners...from inciting violence.
That's a huge military weakness, Egypt not even being able to control its own internal electronic communications...catch those starting violence...cut them off of internet access/cell phone access.

GarryB wrote:Well I watched the vid.

Not completely all true, it ignores the fact that during the 1980s that the Afghan "rebels" were considered freedom fighters and got a lot of support in the west.

If we take the analogy of Nazism, before WWII there was a lot of sympathy for nazism around the western world and not just in fringe white supremacist groups.

When Hitler started expanding Germany most didn't care much... it wasn't till Poland was invaded that the UK did anything and even then what happened is widely called the Phoney war now because there was very little the UK could actually do directly to Germany regarding its invasion of Poland.

The US remained neutral till Pearl Harbour was attacked by the Japanese and it was Germany that declared war on the US rather than the other way around and I would suspect without that declaration the attack by the Japanese would have made US contributions to the war in Europe even less likely rather than more likely...

In other words until it directly effected them the US could care less about most things.

Once it does effect them however... it becomes the most important thing in the world.

Cuba, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Syria etc etc... at one time or another the US has told us that each of these countries are a threat to the whole world to explain their (over) reactions.

Al Quada made the mistake of p!ssing on Americas shoes.

They killed less than 3,000 people yet the US reacted like the sky fell, and their revenge has cost the lives of rather more US and allied forces soldiers and 100 fold in civilians and those resisting those american and allied soldiers in their country.

It is a fact that the German people have paid a huge price for being led by a group of nazis, of course allied treatment of Germany after WWI was the source of the problem.
Now Muslim people are paying a price for the actions of a few extremists.

Those extremists are certainly to blame, as is the general west who likes things black and white... simple. They don't understand the concept that people are not good or bad, because people can do good or bad. Worse good people can do bad things, while bad people can do good things.

Much easier to say Al Quada are muslims so any muslim can be Al Quada therefore if we treat all muslims as bad we might get it wrong sometimes, but the victim of us getting it wrong will be an innocent muslim, rather than us getting it wrong the other way in which we will be the victim of an attack by someone we didn't catch because we didn't want to offend a group of muslims.

Very bad, but I can't change it.

My nephew in law and my niece travel a lot... they are married and have the same last name, but she is white and blonde so she just walks through airport security with no problems... it takes him much longer.

the right thing that U.S craeted Taliban and now suffer from it,so it's her problem and should pay for past mistakes,not muslims problem, al quada made 11/9 and U.S invaded Iraq, oh nice reaction,thats aworld domination,

Iraq's immediate neighbours did not consider Iraq a military threat, so why did the U.S.? Iraq's missiles could reach parts of Europe and Russia but neither Europe nor Russia considered Iraq a threat; indeed, in mid-2002 Russia signed a multi-billion dollar trade deal with Iraq. Only Israel considered Iraq a threat , and in the U.S. Congress and in the Bush Administration what Israel wants Israel gets.

ahmedfire wrote:

Egypt has no land/ space based Directed Energy systems.

lol what ? what is the thing tnat israel has that could annihilate an army with 4500 tank,500 aircraft, 5 millions soldiers,ballistic missiles ,3000 Artillery and one of the best air defences in that area?!

Russian Patriot wrote:

ahmedfire wrote:

Russian Patriot wrote:Let me be clear: As long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad exist, the statehood will never be legal, and never accepted by Israel , US or the UN.

Let's be more clear here:

Propaganda in the west media convinced people there that israel fighting terrorists ,,the arab ones ...wow bombong the gaza strip including 1.2 million citizen in it seems agood way to fight terrorism ...zionism control the media in america and europe ,using it to serve their own goals,,i was talking with abritish guy two years ago...he doesn't know that name (palestine !!) he only know israel.!!.. this is what we called..... media influence.


joining islam with terrorism is asilly thinking
even muslim countries from time to another are bombed by terrorists
wow,how could u be an islamic terrorist and bomb islamic countries ?!! so Terrorism has no religion,,

HAMAS just defend her country just like FATH,,israel always put more and more obstacles in the way of negotiations ! what will you do if your country is occupied?

We (egyptians ) tried israels in the past when they occupies sinai,Only by force we restored our land back ,

do u really think israel could give the land it occupied through negotiations ?!

i don't see anear solution in future, israel should stop using force against innocent people,,asolution os 2-state would be good,
but israel doing somethings that delays and stopping that solution
such athing like separation wall : read


Human Rights:

Kofi Annan: "Israel's separation wall 'obstacle' to two-state solution" | The Electronic Intifada

http://electronicintifada.net/content/kofi-annan-israels-separation-wall-obstacle-two-state-solution/1370


the British journalist Jonathan Cook hit it right on when he wrote:

"[Israelis] know exactly what happens: their Zionist training simply blinds them to its significance. As long as the enemy is Arab, as long as the catch-all excuse of security can be invoked, and as long as they believe anti-Semitism lurks everywhere, then the Israeli public can sleep easy as another [Palestinian] child is shot riding his bike, another family's house is bulldozed, another woman miscarries at a checkpoint. ... It seems that a people raised to believe that anything can be done in its name -- as long as it serves the interests of Jews and their state -- has no need of ignorance. It can commit atrocities with eyes wide open." (29)

And this is not new. Zionist thinker, Ahad Ha'am, described the anti-Arab attitude of the Jewish settlers that came to Palestine to escape repression in Europe, long before Israel was created, as follows:

"Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora, and suddenly they find themselves in freedom [in Palestine]; and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination." (30)


israel crimes in palestine exceeded all limits,, by simple words ...Palestinian holocaust..

PHOTO GALLERY OF GAZA’S MARTYRED CHILDREN:

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/phopto-gallery-of-gazas-martyred-children/

when israel kill those and ,expand Settlement ,, remove buildings of palestinians and contiue on separation wall building......what do u expect from the other side ?!!
do u expect somthing good ?!!
any action has areaction ,,that reaction depend on that action

wow ,striking schools ,it is also contains terrorists

israel actions are not good,so it's simple..u can't expect agood behavior .from the other side.....

it's not only about ceasefire !! what is next ?!!!
is ceasing fire will solve the problem ?!!
how can u ceasefire and in the same time,raping lands day after another and expanding settlement and building separation wall??!
it's afake ceasefire
what can u expect from the other side ?!!
watching u doing that and keep silent !!!

do u know the meaning of settlement
imagine youself set in your bedroom after launch to get some rest and suddenly you find soldiers taking u and your family out of house coz this land will be included in that colony....,,oh that's aceasefire!!!!!

also hamas not always breaking ceasefire...israel also did

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1531571/Hamas-threatens-to-break-ceasefire-after-Israeli-air-strikes.html


hamas also accepted the 2 state solution:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915


see finkelstein...his father and mother died in the holcaust but he refuse the massacres of israel coz he know it well,he feels it coz he faced things like it by germans

Well I understand you are supporting your Arab brothers, I have to counter:

These " freedom fighters" Hamas as you try to portray them, bomb Haifa ( where my family lives) with Qassam rockets 16 times a day, how is that fighting for freedom?


Israel only answers with airstrikes in retaliation to attacks ( which is why they attacked in 2007 , after Capt. Shalad was kidnapped)

About Bombing schools: Hamas openly admits to stockpiling weapons in civilian areas and uses citizens as human shields or better yet shadi (suicide bombers).

About Fatah: Even though they are now moderate, this is the same PLO which brought civil war in Lebanon with the Falange and Hezbollah in the 80's, and they want a state( with 1967 borders which Israel fairly won , including Jerusalem, mind you) while not even admitting Israel, how can Israel give land to factions that don't admit it?


Now Sinai, Israel gave you it back in 1979 , following a peace treaty in 1979 when Sadat was president of Egypt, and yet rather then help Israel defend its borders , against terrorists, your countrymen burn the Israeli embassy in Cairo, after a tragic mistake that could of been prevented due your border guards identifying themselves.


I agree Netanyhu was wrong in his act though, but I understand his motives..