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    Palestine Statehood bid

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    ahmedfire

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    Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  ahmedfire on Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:28 am

    Palestinian National Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has submitted an official bid to the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon for Palestinian admission to the United Nations as a full member.

    Ban Ki-moon accepted the application, aimed at Palestine being recognized as an independent state, and presented it to the UN Security Council, which will then consider it and pass it on to the General Assembly.

    When the Palestinian leader walked into the UN General Assembly on Friday, he received a round of applause that lasted for more than a minute – something that is not often seen. Many delegates stood up and gave him a standing ovation, and they did this several times throughout his speech, which lasted for more than 40 minutes.

    In his address to the United Nations session, Mahmoud Abbas said that Jewish settlement activity threatens the two-state solution of the Israel-Palestine conflict.

    He also announced that Palestine is ready to return to the negotiating table, but added that the Palestinians will continue their peaceful popular resistance to what he called "Israeli occupation".

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who addressed the assembly shortly after Mahmoud Abbas, said that Israel is extending the hand of peace to all its neighbors, and especially to Palestine.

    ”Most especially, I extend my hand to the Palestinian people, with whom we seek a just and lasting peace,” he said, as quoted by AP news agency.

    Netanyahu added that peace between his country and Palestine cannot be achieved through UN resolutions alone, without negotiations.

    He said that the Palestinians want their state without concluding a peace deal with Israel, stressing that such a peace can only be achieved through direct talks.

    The Middle East Quartet has reportedly convened for their meeting, with their statement regarding the peace talks expected shortly

    Thousands of jubilant Palestinians have gathered before large outdoor screens set up on town squares across the West Bank to see Mahmoud Abbas submit his independence bid to the United Nations.

    Crowds have also flocked to the downtown area of Ramallah in  support of the president, who had earlier called on Palestinians to organize peaceful marches to back his appeal.

    Friday has also seen violence escalating in the West Bank between Israeli forces and the Palestinian population. The Israeli army has on several occasions used tear-gas to disperse Palestinian demonstrators rallying in support of the independence bid.

    The application for an independent Palestine comes despite US promises to veto Palestine's bid for statehood in the United Nations. The US is insisting that the Palestinian state should only be formed as a result of negotiations between the Palestinian leadership and Israel.

    Earlier, the Israeli foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, told journalists that the Palestinian application could stall the negotiation process between the two sides.

    ­According to former Palestinian negotiator Ghaith Al-Omari from the American Task Force on Palestine, the solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict would be a combination of diplomacy and the changes already going on in Palestine itself.

    ”If you look at opinion polls in Palestine and Israel you will see that the majority of the public supports the two-state solution along similar lines,” he said. “The problem is not with the public. It is with the leadership.”

    ”Negotiation is definitely one [solution] with a more invigorating international role, but it is also what the Palestinians have been doing on the ground in terms of building their institutions, building the security service to make sure that once the Palestinian state is created, it will be a strong state, it will be a democratic state,” Ghaith Al-Omari added. “I think it is a combination of both – invigorated diplomacy and developments on the ground.”


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    GarryB

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:32 am

    If only their solution was unique... then they could simply do what the Albanians did in Kosovo and just declare an independent state. Rolling Eyes

    It is only a matter of time before Obama plays the Veto card and everything turns bad. Mad

    The real problem is that the leadership of Israel doesn't want peace and will make demands that there are no attacks on Israelis or talks are off.
    This stupid an naieve attitude means that any individual with a chip on their shoulder from either side can prevent talks simply by blowing something up.
    It gives all the control to the dickheads.

    But of course it is not naieve, it is cynical because they know there are plenty of people who want revenge rather than peace, though they will likely call it justice in public.
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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:42 pm

    Let me be clear: As long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad exist, the statehood will never be legal, and never accepted by Israel , US or the UN.
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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  ahmedfire on Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:33 pm

    Russian Patriot wrote:Let me be clear: As long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad exist, the statehood will never be legal, and never accepted by Israel , US or the UN.

    Let's be more clear here:

    Propaganda in the west media convinced people there that israel fighting terrorists ,,the arab ones ...wow bombong the gaza strip including 1.2 million citizen in it seems agood way to fight terrorism ...zionism control the media in america and europe ,using it to serve their own goals,,i was talking with abritish guy two years ago...he doesn't know that name (palestine !!) he only know israel.!!.. this is what we called..... media influence.


    joining islam with terrorism is asilly thinking
    even muslim countries from time to another were bombed by terrorists
    wow,how could u be an islamic terrorist and bomb islamic countries ?!! so Terrorism has no religion,,

    HAMAS just defend her country just like FATH,,israel always put more and more obstacles in the way of negotiations ! what will you do if your country is occupied?

    We (egyptians ) tried israels in the past when they occupies sinai,Only by force we restored our land back ,

    do u really think israel could give the land it occupied through negotiations ?!

    i don't see anear solution in future, israel should stop using force against innocent people,,asolution os 2-state would be good,
    but israel doing somethings that delays and stopping that solution
    such athing like separation wall : read


    Human Rights:

    Kofi Annan: "Israel's separation wall 'obstacle' to two-state solution" | The Electronic Intifada

    http://electronicintifada.net/content/kofi-annan-israels-separation-wall-obstacle-two-state-solution/1370


    the British journalist Jonathan Cook hit it right on when he wrote:

    "[Israelis] know exactly what happens: their Zionist training simply blinds them to its significance. As long as the enemy is Arab, as long as the catch-all excuse of security can be invoked, and as long as they believe anti-Semitism lurks everywhere, then the Israeli public can sleep easy as another [Palestinian] child is shot riding his bike, another family's house is bulldozed, another woman miscarries at a checkpoint. ... It seems that a people raised to believe that anything can be done in its name -- as long as it serves the interests of Jews and their state -- has no need of ignorance. It can commit atrocities with eyes wide open." (29)

    And this is not new. Zionist thinker, Ahad Ha'am, described the anti-Arab attitude of the Jewish settlers that came to Palestine to escape repression in Europe, long before Israel was created, as follows:

    "Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora, and suddenly they find themselves in freedom [in Palestine]; and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination." (30)


    israel crimes in palestine exceeded all limits,, by simple words ...Palestinian holocaust..

    PHOTO GALLERY OF GAZA’S MARTYRED CHILDREN:

    http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/phopto-gallery-of-gazas-martyred-children/

    when israel kill those and ,expand Settlement ,, remove buildings of palestinians and contiue on separation wall building......what do u expect from the other side ?!!
    do u expect somthing good ?!!
    any action has areaction ,,that reaction depend on that action

    wow ,striking schools ,it is also contains terrorists Exclamation

    israel actions are not good,so it's simple..u can't expect agood behavior .from the other side.....

    it's not only about ceasefire !! what is next ?!!!
    is ceasing fire will solve the problem ?!!
    how can u ceasefire and in the same time,raping lands day after another and expanding settlement and building separation wall??!
    it's afake ceasefire
    what can u expect from the other side ?!!
    watching u doing that and keep silent !!!

    do u know the meaning of settlement
    imagine youself set in your bedroom after launch to get some rest and suddenly you find soldiers taking u and your family out of house coz this land will be included in that colony....,,oh that's aceasefire!!!!!

    also hamas not always breaking ceasefire...israel also did

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1531571/Hamas-threatens-to-break-ceasefire-after-Israeli-air-strikes.html


    hamas also accepted the 2 state solution:
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915


    see finkelstein...his father and mother died in the holcaust but he refuse the massacres of israel coz he know it well,he feels it coz he faced things like it by germans










    Last edited by ahmedfire on Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  ahmedfire on Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:47 pm

    GarryB wrote:If only their solution was unique... then they could simply do what the Albanians did in Kosovo and just declare an independent state. Rolling Eyes

    It is only a matter of time before Obama plays the Veto card and everything turns bad. Mad

    The real problem is that the leadership of Israel doesn't want peace and will make demands that there are no attacks on Israelis or talks are off.
    This stupid an naieve attitude means that any individual with a chip on their shoulder from either side can prevent talks simply by blowing something up.
    It gives all the control to the dickheads.

    But of course it is not naieve, it is cynical because they know there are plenty of people who want revenge rather than peace, though they will likely call it justice in public.

    See what nitnyahoo did after abbas speech :

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:01 am

    ahmedfire wrote:
    Russian Patriot wrote:Let me be clear: As long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad exist, the statehood will never be legal, and never accepted by Israel , US or the UN.

    Let's be more clear here:

    Propaganda in the west media convinced people there that israel fighting terrorists ,,the arab ones ...wow bombong the gaza strip including 1.2 million citizen in it seems agood way to fight terrorism ...zionism control the media in america and europe ,using it to serve their own goals,,i was talking with abritish guy two years ago...he doesn't know that name (palestine !!) he only know israel.!!.. this is what we called..... media influence.


    joining islam with terrorism is asilly thinking
    even muslim countries from time to another are bombed by terrorists
    wow,how could u be an islamic terrorist and bomb islamic countries ?!! so Terrorism has no religion,,

    HAMAS just defend her country just like FATH,,israel always put more and more obstacles in the way of negotiations ! what will you do if your country is occupied?

    We (egyptians ) tried israels in the past when they occupies sinai,Only by force we restored our land back ,

    do u really think israel could give the land it occupied through negotiations ?!

    i don't see anear solution in future, israel should stop using force against innocent people,,asolution os 2-state would be good,
    but israel doing somethings that delays and stopping that solution
    such athing like separation wall : read


    Human Rights:

    Kofi Annan: "Israel's separation wall 'obstacle' to two-state solution" | The Electronic Intifada

    http://electronicintifada.net/content/kofi-annan-israels-separation-wall-obstacle-two-state-solution/1370


    the British journalist Jonathan Cook hit it right on when he wrote:

    "[Israelis] know exactly what happens: their Zionist training simply blinds them to its significance. As long as the enemy is Arab, as long as the catch-all excuse of security can be invoked, and as long as they believe anti-Semitism lurks everywhere, then the Israeli public can sleep easy as another [Palestinian] child is shot riding his bike, another family's house is bulldozed, another woman miscarries at a checkpoint. ... It seems that a people raised to believe that anything can be done in its name -- as long as it serves the interests of Jews and their state -- has no need of ignorance. It can commit atrocities with eyes wide open." (29)

    And this is not new. Zionist thinker, Ahad Ha'am, described the anti-Arab attitude of the Jewish settlers that came to Palestine to escape repression in Europe, long before Israel was created, as follows:

    "Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora, and suddenly they find themselves in freedom [in Palestine]; and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination." (30)


    israel crimes in palestine exceeded all limits,, by simple words ...Palestinian holocaust..

    PHOTO GALLERY OF GAZA’S MARTYRED CHILDREN:

    http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/phopto-gallery-of-gazas-martyred-children/

    when israel kill those and ,expand Settlement ,, remove buildings of palestinians and contiue on separation wall building......what do u expect from the other side ?!!
    do u expect somthing good ?!!
    any action has areaction ,,that reaction depend on that action

    wow ,striking schools ,it is also contains terrorists Exclamation

    israel actions are not good,so it's simple..u can't expect agood behavior .from the other side.....

    it's not only about ceasefire !! what is next ?!!!
    is ceasing fire will solve the problem ?!!
    how can u ceasefire and in the same time,raping lands day after another and expanding settlement and building separation wall??!
    it's afake ceasefire
    what can u expect from the other side ?!!
    watching u doing that and keep silent !!!

    do u know the meaning of settlement
    imagine youself set in your bedroom after launch to get some rest and suddenly you find soldiers taking u and your family out of house coz this land will be included in that colony....,,oh that's aceasefire!!!!!

    also hamas not always breaking ceasefire...israel also did

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1531571/Hamas-threatens-to-break-ceasefire-after-Israeli-air-strikes.html


    hamas also accepted the 2 state solution:
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915


    see finkelstein...his father and mother died in the holcaust but he refuse the massacres of israel coz he know it well,he feels it coz he faced things like it by germans










    Well I understand you are supporting your Arab brothers, I have to counter:

    These " freedom fighters" Hamas as you try to portray them, bomb Haifa ( where my family lives) with Qassam rockets 16 times a day, how is that fighting for freedom?


    Israel only answers with airstrikes in retaliation to attacks ( which is why they attacked in 2007 , after Capt. Shalad was kidnapped)

    About Bombing schools: Hamas openly admits to stockpiling weapons in civilian areas and uses citizens as human shields or better yet shadi (suicide bombers).

    About Fatah: Even though they are now moderate, this is the same PLO which brought civil war in Lebanon with the Falange and Hezbollah in the 80's, and they want a state( with 1967 borders which Israel fairly won , including Jerusalem, mind you) while not even admitting Israel, how can Israel give land to factions that don't admit it?


    Now Sinai, Israel gave you it back in 1979 , following a peace treaty in 1979 when Sadat was president of Egypt, and yet rather then help Israel defend its borders , against terrorists, your countrymen burn the Israeli embassy in Cairo, after a tragic mistake that could of been prevented due your border guards identifying themselves.


    I agree Netanyhu was wrong in his act though, but I understand his motives..

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:48 am

    These " freedom fighters" Hamas as you try to portray them, bomb Haifa ( where my family lives) with Qassam rockets 16 times a day, how is that fighting for freedom?

    Fighting for freedom is western propaganda bullshit.

    The Palestinians are not fighting for freedom... nobody fights for freedom.

    They want their land back and don't have a military force in any way comparable to what the Juice have, so they use what they have.

    I don't like any group claiming they are right and someone else is wrong and using bombs and violence to make a point or get attention or to force the situation to suit them.

    It is one reason I don't like 'mericas foreign policy.

    Israel only answers with airstrikes in retaliation to attacks ( which is why they attacked in 2007 , after Capt. Shalad was kidnapped)

    Of course Israel is innocent. Israel only responds to arab violence and terrorism.

    About Bombing schools: Hamas openly admits to stockpiling weapons in civilian areas and uses citizens as human shields or better yet shadi (suicide bombers).

    And where should they stockpile them? Large boxes with x marks on them?

    What you are saying is that Israel has taken their land and they should just accept that.

    I believe NATO would like Serbia to accept the independence and nationhood of Kosovo too.

    They are not bothering with words when bombs from planes have done the job and men with guns ensure it stays this way.

    About Fatah: Even though they are now moderate, this is the same PLO which brought civil war in Lebanon with the Falange and Hezbollah in the 80's, and they want a state( with 1967 borders which Israel fairly won , including Jerusalem, mind you) while not even admitting Israel, how can Israel give land to factions that don't admit it?

    How can Israel return land you mean... Israel bollocks on about democracy and freedom, well the Palestinians voted Hamas into power and their representatives. Israel can either talk or there will be conflict. ...what other choice do the Palestinians have?

    Would you vote for a party because the people who took your land using many of the techniques we now call terrorism will not talk with the party you actually want to vote for?
    Is that democracy?

    Now Sinai, Israel gave you it back in 1979 , following a peace treaty in 1979 when Sadat was president of Egypt, and yet rather then help Israel defend its borders , against terrorists, your countrymen burn the Israeli embassy in Cairo, after a tragic mistake that could of been prevented due your border guards identifying themselves.

    Why should their border guards have to identify themselves on Egyptian territory?
    I would think invading Egyptian territory and firing on and killing members of Egyptian border security could be seen by some as a hostile act of war...

    I agree Netanyhu was wrong in his act though, but I understand his motives..

    His motives are avoid the peace process and keep stealing land for all the new juice settlers in Israel.
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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:06 pm

    Just as a comparison...

    Lets take this:

    Let me be clear: As long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad exist, the statehood will never be legal, and never accepted by Israel , US or the UN.

    If terrorism could not be a route to statehood Northern Ireland would still be bombed every other day... Israel would not exist because terrorism created it, the US would be under Native American control, Australia would be under Aboriginal control, New Zealand would be under Maori control, South Africa... would be the same but would have missed out on all those years of white rule...

    The simple fact is that most states were created and maintained through violence.

    If the Soviet Army had folded in 1941 like the rest of Europe, except the Brits who had that fabulous victory at Dunkirk and the English Channel to hide behind to lick their wounds, and the Germans started moving German citizens into Russia and the Ukraine to build farms to be the grain store for the third riech would Russian peasants resisting and killing German civilians be terrorists? I am sure the Germans would think so, but what would the rest of the world think? After all the land belongs to the Ayrian people because Hitler said so, so surely those people should just leave right?

    Of course in the case of Kosovo the poor victims are the Albanian people in Kosovo who are oppressed and subjugated minority in all of Serbia but are a majority in Kosovo which gives NATO the right to go in and remove Serbian police and military from Kosovo and create a new independent country from a group of people who already have a state... called Albania, but they get a new state called Kosovo, and even though they commit horrendous war crimes against the Serbs like selling body parts from people kept alive for the purpose and then butchered when the parts are needed... the Serb minority in Kosovo however can't have the same... they can't create an independent Serb state from the parts of Kosovo where they are the majority... that is silly because Serbian oppression of Albanians is a well known fact, while Albanian oppression of anyone else doesn't happen... oppressors are oppressors and victims are victims. Albanians are victims... just like juice.

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  Pervius on Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:29 pm

    There's more to it than religion.

    Israel doesn't want to give up the Gaza strip to a Palestinian State because there's Natural Gas off the coast of Gaza...which is putting much money into Israeli hands. They lose that...they lose a revenue stream.


    Israeli's could have the entire United States to call home...instead they wish to stay over there and fight for a piece of dirt with not much value. Well....there's risk in fighting over that little piece of land.


    But now Israel has weapons not even God possesses. In effect Judgement Day has begun. And it's the Israeli's who are deciding who lives and who dies on this Earth. Nobody can stop them.

    The muslims have no idea about the technology Israel possesses. (Thanks to America).

    Back when that South Korean military ship sank....does anyone think Israel sunk her to get the world to look away from Israel at the time? What will occur next to get the world to look away?

    Hmmm....what if the Israeli submarines sank the Shi Lang? Or a US Aircraft Carrier in the Philippine Sea?


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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:28 am

    The Israelis wouldn't attack a ship to distract attention... like the USS Liberty for example...

    Not all Jews are Zionist Jews, there are plenty who protest the existence of a Juice state.





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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:27 pm

    Pervius wrote:

    The muslims have no idea about the technology Israel possesses. (Thanks to America).


    Pervius: I'll talk about Egypt, We here know how israel is strong but she is not that invincible army (they called it invicible army before 1973 war but we defeated them although in that time they got all equipments to defeat 5 countries here< so nothing impossible ) , we also are making agood army to defend our land, as example our ground forces are superior than israel's one ,they confessed that egyptian navy are 3 times as israel's one ,we have strong air defence force ,good aircrafts ,ballistic missiles ,chemical and biological weapons and that NUKS is not hard to get if we want we have all scientists and capabilities ,soviets offeres it before on us ,we have the advantage of soldiers numbers , country area and population .


    The real problem not israel it self,no , the idea is bigger bigger than that ,the problem is U.S that defend israel land even more than U.S land,i really don't know why all that protection ?
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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:46 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Israelis wouldn't attack a ship to distract attention... like the USS Liberty for example...

    Not all Jews are Zionist Jews, there are plenty who protest the existence of a Juice state.







    Yeah,not all Jews are zionist,




    all arabs lived (and still ) with jews thousands of years in peace, in palesine also jews were there for long time with muslims living in peace ,

    when zionists came ,no more peace ,just taking land ,killing people andif they tried to defend themselves call them terrorists and you have all support from U.S,, there are more 80 UN decision against israel but she didn't apply anyone of them and ignored all of them ! and at the end they talking about the thing that threat world and called as islamic terrorism ,yeah islam thet destroied iraq and libya killing millions ,islam that threat north korea and iran coz they refused to be acowboy, islam that killed and injured million of innocent vitnamese people, islam that created Taliban and then called it terrorism...etc ,nice U.S justice....







    Last edited by ahmedfire on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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    GarryB

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:49 am

    The Taleban would be good muslims in the 17th Century.

    Today they are not good examples of moderate muslims and moderate muslims should speak out against them.

    They should also speak out about the treatment in Saudi Arabia of women where women can't vote or even drive a car and have to spend all day dressed up like ninjas.... what do they wear to funerals?

    I think if moderate muslims spoke out more against the actions of the idiots who use violence to get what they want that there would be much less confusion about the use of terrorism and the muslim faith.

    Of course it is very selective minded westerners that forget Timothy McVeigh was not a muslim, and you could argue that it was the US governments over the top actions regarding policing that created the problem.
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  ahmedfire on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:46 pm



    Today they are not good examples of moderate muslims and moderate muslims should speak out against them.

    True, and we did ,we refused htem if they bombed trains ,aircrafts..etc that kill innocent people, the thing that little know that this actions are against our religion islam principles,

    but if Taliban just fight U.S and west armies ,they have all right to do that.


    They should also speak out about the treatment in Saudi Arabia of women where women can't vote or even drive a car and have to spend all day dressed up like ninjas.... what do they wear to funerals?

    Saudi Arabia is aspecial case, improvements on the way but slowly,from two months King Abdullah gives women in Saudi Arabia the right to vote ,He also announced that women would have the right to join the all-appointed Shura (consultative) Council,

    http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/25/168602.html



    I think if moderate muslims spoke out more against the actions of the idiots who use violence to get what they want that there would be much less confusion about the use of terrorism and the muslim faith.

    Actually ,we always did, we refused all theses attacks on 11 sept.,france ,spain ..etc, but what can we do,even muslim countries were bombed and still .


    Of course it is very selective minded westerners that forget Timothy McVeigh was not a muslim, and you could argue that it was the US governments over the top actions regarding policing that created the problem.

    Garry please see that video and tell me your opinion..

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    GarryB

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:20 pm


    True, and we did ,we refused htem if they bombed trains ,aircrafts..etc that kill innocent people, the thing that little know that this actions are against our religion islam principles,

    Your main problem is that western media could care less about the truth and is just interested in a good story.

    All the muslim leaders in the world except one could condemn terrorist attacks, but that one just has to say something like... the way the US has been acting internationally they probably deserved 11/9... and the western media will be all over them and that is all the western public will hear on the matter.

    but if Taliban just fight U.S and west armies ,they have all right to do that.

    They have every right to fight invading armies... now and in the past... but the society they are defending is not worth protecting in my opinion and certainly if I was a female Afghan I would be supporting those infidels, just as I would have supported the Soviets in the 1980s.

    Saudi Arabia is aspecial case, improvements on the way but slowly,from two months King Abdullah gives women in Saudi Arabia the right to vote ,He also announced that women would have the right to join the all-appointed Shura (consultative) Council,

    Why is it a special case? Their human rights record is abysmal and actually makes Iran look very modern and forward thinking... not that most westerners would believe anything but the reverse of that...

    Will look at the video tomorrow... don't really have time now.

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  Pervius on Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:29 pm

    ahmedfire,

    Egypt has no land/ space based Directed Energy systems.

    Israel could annihilate an army by pointing and clicking with a mouse. Simple minded people would not even realize what was happening to them or where it was coming from.


    Egypt can't even control is own internal electronic communications systems.....to keep foreigners...from inciting violence.

    That's a huge military weakness, Egypt not even being able to control its own internal electronic communications...catch those starting violence...cut them off of internet access/cell phone access.


    The United States tested a system in 2004 cutting people's access to their own money. They've got people watching all credit card transactions...they see you doing certain things...they shut off access to their money. They ended up cutting US military members from accessing their bank accounts, credit cards, using checks.....just because they were traveling across the US and using credit cards to buy lots of gas/hotels...which the computer system flagged. They even shut down their Govt. issued travel credit cards....lol.

    Egypt....can't even handle communications.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:04 am

    Well I watched the vid.

    Not completely all true, it ignores the fact that during the 1980s that the Afghan "rebels" were considered freedom fighters and got a lot of support in the west.

    If we take the analogy of Nazism, before WWII there was a lot of sympathy for nazism around the western world and not just in fringe white supremacist groups.

    When Hitler started expanding Germany most didn't care much... it wasn't till Poland was invaded that the UK did anything and even then what happened is widely called the Phoney war now because there was very little the UK could actually do directly to Germany regarding its invasion of Poland.

    The US remained neutral till Pearl Harbour was attacked by the Japanese and it was Germany that declared war on the US rather than the other way around and I would suspect without that declaration the attack by the Japanese would have made US contributions to the war in Europe even less likely rather than more likely...

    In other words until it directly effected them the US could care less about most things.

    Once it does effect them however... it becomes the most important thing in the world.

    Cuba, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Syria etc etc... at one time or another the US has told us that each of these countries are a threat to the whole world to explain their (over) reactions.

    Al Quada made the mistake of p!ssing on Americas shoes.

    They killed less than 3,000 people yet the US reacted like the sky fell, and their revenge has cost the lives of rather more US and allied forces soldiers and 100 fold in civilians and those resisting those american and allied soldiers in their country.

    It is a fact that the German people have paid a huge price for being led by a group of nazis, of course allied treatment of Germany after WWI was the source of the problem.
    Now Muslim people are paying a price for the actions of a few extremists.

    Those extremists are certainly to blame, as is the general west who likes things black and white... simple. They don't understand the concept that people are not good or bad, because people can do good or bad. Worse good people can do bad things, while bad people can do good things.

    Much easier to say Al Quada are muslims so any muslim can be Al Quada therefore if we treat all muslims as bad we might get it wrong sometimes, but the victim of us getting it wrong will be an innocent muslim, rather than us getting it wrong the other way in which we will be the victim of an attack by someone we didn't catch because we didn't want to offend a group of muslims.

    Very bad, but I can't change it.

    My nephew in law and my niece travel a lot... they are married and have the same last name, but she is white and blonde so she just walks through airport security with no problems... it takes him much longer.
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    Russian Patriot

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  Russian Patriot on Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:13 am

    Palestinians likely to get UN observer status - Russia's UN envoy

    RIA Novosti

    12:13 30/09/2011 MOSCOW, September 30 (RIA Novosti) - The Palestinians are likely to receive observer status at the UN rather than full membership, Russia's UN envoy Vitaly Churkin said.

    The United States has already said it will veto the Palestinian bid at a Security Council vote - the only route to full UN status. Approval by the UN General Assembly - where most member states support the Palestinians - would only provide observer status.

    Russia and China - two of the Security Council's permanent members with veto rights - are both ready to back the bid.

    "The Israelis and Americans tell us that if the Palestinians are accepted to the UN, almost the whole world will fall apart. We disagree," Churkin said.

    He added that international recognition of the Palestinians would "encourage the negotiation process".

    A special UN Security Council committee will gather on Friday for the first time to consider the Palestinian statehood bid, handed over to the United Nations by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas last week.

    Israel and the United States have expressed strong opposition to the "unilateral" move, which they say would jeopardize any future peace talks, and urged the Palestinians to immediately return to the negotiating table.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2011/09/mil-110930-rianovosti01.htm



    and:

    Palestinian statehood bid goes to expert committee

    RIA Novosti

    21:16 30/09/2011 NEW YORK, September 30 (RIA Novosti) - After discussions on Friday, the Security Council handed Palestinian Authority's UN membership request to an expert committee, Russia's UN envoy, Vitaly Churkin, said.

    An expert committee has been set up to study whether the Palestinian statehood bid, submitted by Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas a week ago, meets the UN Charter demands.

    "We [the UN Security Council] had a good discussion. We agreed to meet again a couple of weeks later, by that time experts will consider all aspects and criteria," Churkin said.

    Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki said on Thursday the Palestinian bid is supported by eight out of the fifteen Security Council members. The document needs nine votes to be approved, and none of the Council's permanent members should be opposed to it. But the United States has already said it will veto any statehood resolution.

    Israel and the United States have expressed strong opposition to the "unilateral" move by the Palestinian Authority, which they say would jeopardize any future peace talks, and urged the Palestinians to immediately return to the negotiating table.

    In case of a US veto, the Palestinians can still ask the General Assembly to elevate their UN status from an observer to a "non-state member," which some analysts say would enable them to challenge the continuing construction of Israeli settlements on the occupied Palestinian land in the International Criminal Court. A total of 131 UN member states, making up more than two-thirds of the organization's members, have recognized an independent Palestinian state.


    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2011/09/mil-110930-rianovosti03.htm
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  ahmedfire on Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:55 am

    Egypt has no land/ space based Directed Energy systems.

    so what,turkey also has no DES..


    Israel could annihilate an army by pointing and clicking with a mouse


    lol what ? what is the thing tnat israel has that could annihilate an army with 4500 tank,500 aircraft, 5 millions soldiers,ballistic missiles ,3000 Artillery and one of the best air defences in that area?!

    in 2009 CIA report ,egypt got the rank 10 in the world firepower,,oh if israel can just annihilate our army with aclick,so why they are getting modern fighters,tanks and airdefences ?

    why didn't america use it in second gulf war and destroy iraqi army by aclick ? or in libya ,why didn't russia use it in last georgia conflict ?

    israel has Tactical High Energy Laser (THEL) developed by U.S for air defence to counter hezbollah anh hamas rockets,but from what happened in the last war with hezollah ,israelis failed to employ the system and failed to stop the rockets that was falling like arain ,they also failed to hit the rockets with the convenintional airdefences... Twisted Evil


    even THEL could be countered by many ways:

    Reflective coatings which attempt to reflect a large proportion of the incoming radiation.
    Modification of projectile geometries to take into account the possibility that laser light radiation might be used to neutralize the projectiles.
    Enveloping gas/substance. The use of gaseous envelopes around a missile would ensure that a sufficiently cool gas will carry away a portion of the incident radiation energy which is incident upon the missile by both convective and diffusive effects.
    An oscillating or chaotic trajectory will increase the difficulties in the use of the THEL system due to guidance. If guided into windy or turbulent environments, such a chaotic trajectory would also ensure that there is more of a turbulent gaseous flow around the missile.
    Heat Resistant Coating Layers (HRCLs). Similar to reflective coatings. However, in the case of HRCLs, internal capillaries/coolant mechanisms could ensure that excessively large amounts of heat could be dissipated.
    Multi-stage projectile systems which “dummies” a THEL kill.


    Egypt can't even control is own internal electronic communications systems.....to keep foreigners...from inciting violence.
    That's a huge military weakness, Egypt not even being able to control its own internal electronic communications...catch those starting violence...cut them off of internet access/cell phone access.


    I don't knew how did you get these informations,but it's completely wrong,

    shutting internet off during revolution is an action that any country can do ,even britain wants to do that to stop protests

    http://www.bnet.com/blog/sports-entertainment/uk-wants-to-shut-down-internet-to-stop-protests-8212-just-like-egypt/1253


    when people use internet,all sites and phones..etc to make arevoultion ,so the first decision that government will take is to shut these comm. off...

    this is acivil communications that differ from army one,egyptian army is good in that point,very good....



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    ahmedfire

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  ahmedfire on Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:14 am

    GarryB wrote:Well I watched the vid.

    Not completely all true, it ignores the fact that during the 1980s that the Afghan "rebels" were considered freedom fighters and got a lot of support in the west.

    If we take the analogy of Nazism, before WWII there was a lot of sympathy for nazism around the western world and not just in fringe white supremacist groups.

    When Hitler started expanding Germany most didn't care much... it wasn't till Poland was invaded that the UK did anything and even then what happened is widely called the Phoney war now because there was very little the UK could actually do directly to Germany regarding its invasion of Poland.

    The US remained neutral till Pearl Harbour was attacked by the Japanese and it was Germany that declared war on the US rather than the other way around and I would suspect without that declaration the attack by the Japanese would have made US contributions to the war in Europe even less likely rather than more likely...

    In other words until it directly effected them the US could care less about most things.

    Once it does effect them however... it becomes the most important thing in the world.

    Cuba, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Syria etc etc... at one time or another the US has told us that each of these countries are a threat to the whole world to explain their (over) reactions.

    Al Quada made the mistake of p!ssing on Americas shoes.

    They killed less than 3,000 people yet the US reacted like the sky fell, and their revenge has cost the lives of rather more US and allied forces soldiers and 100 fold in civilians and those resisting those american and allied soldiers in their country.

    It is a fact that the German people have paid a huge price for being led by a group of nazis, of course allied treatment of Germany after WWI was the source of the problem.
    Now Muslim people are paying a price for the actions of a few extremists.

    Those extremists are certainly to blame, as is the general west who likes things black and white... simple. They don't understand the concept that people are not good or bad, because people can do good or bad. Worse good people can do bad things, while bad people can do good things.

    Much easier to say Al Quada are muslims so any muslim can be Al Quada therefore if we treat all muslims as bad we might get it wrong sometimes, but the victim of us getting it wrong will be an innocent muslim, rather than us getting it wrong the other way in which we will be the victim of an attack by someone we didn't catch because we didn't want to offend a group of muslims.

    Very bad, but I can't change it.

    My nephew in law and my niece travel a lot... they are married and have the same last name, but she is white and blonde so she just walks through airport security with no problems... it takes him much longer.

    Nice analysis Garry, but al quada doesn't lead all muslims, most muslims 99 % refuse to attack civilians coz islam told us not to do that,if al quada fight U.S and allied forces,ok we are with them,but if they are bombing civilian in U.S and europe we refused that and we are aginst them even if americans bombed civilans in afghanistan,pakistan and iraq,coz islam told us not to kill acivilan or awar prisoner, it's all against our islam...

    the right thing that U.S craeted Taliban and now suffer from it,so it's her problem and should pay for past mistakes,not muslims problem, al quada made 11/9 and U.S invaded Iraq, oh nice reaction,thats aworld domination,

    Iraq's immediate neighbours did not consider Iraq a military threat, so why did the U.S.? Iraq's missiles could reach parts of Europe and Russia but neither Europe nor Russia considered Iraq a threat; indeed, in mid-2002 Russia signed a multi-billion dollar trade deal with Iraq. Only Israel considered Iraq a threat , and in the U.S. Congress and in the Bush Administration what Israel wants Israel gets.







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    GarryB

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:42 am

    And not all Germans supported the Nazis... in 1939 they were popular and there was no problem showing support, in 1941 it was even easier as the Soviets were about to fall and Germany pretty much controlled all of Europe... but by 1944 the average German was not so pro nazi because the bombing from the western allies and the Soviet ground forces moving from the east they were starting to realise what the nazis had actually be doing and what they were about to bring upon the German people.

    In 1946 simply for self preservation a German would renounce nazism even if they were a hard core nazi 2-3 years before simply because most of the rest of the world knew what the nazis had done and were shocked and disgusted.

    There were of course plenty of nazis that had no regrets and justified the violence and pain and suffering the nazis caused by thinking those who suffered deserved it and those that benefited from that misery like themselves also deserved it.

    The agenda of nazism appealed to the Germans because it called them the chosen people of god with rights to land and property.

    The agenda of Zionism has a similar appeal now to Israelies and for many of the same reasons, though their attempts to remove the underclasses from their living space is better compared with the nazis actions against the Slavic people rather than their systematic execution of the jews.

    The problem for the Germans is that western stereotypes blur the distinction between Germans and nazis... not all the Germans were Nazis and not all the Nazis were Germans. Some of the most sadistic and active killers for the nazis came from the Baltic states, where extermination of those of jewish blood was above 90%.

    The problem for Muslims is that the extremists share the same religion, though their interpretation makes them a danger, they share a lot more beliefs than those of different faiths.

    If your son murders someone, then he is still your son and you still try to find some way to understand and support and love your son.

    The problem is that this loyalty and kinship can be mistaken as support... and if you support terrorists... well I don't need to tell you.

    Very simply you need to make it clear that extremists are more anti muslim than those of different faiths, because the effect they create is anti muslim sentiment.

    You might share values and ideals, but the methods of these extremists will never lead to justice or peace or discussions... it leads to death, injury, destruction, pain, and anger... and ultimately revenge.

    Half the problem is that the west does not listen to anyone and simply does as it wants to meet its own interests... violence is often the only thing it respects and pays attention to, but often that attention is not the sort of attention anyone would actually want.

    the right thing that U.S craeted Taliban and now suffer from it,so it's her problem and should pay for past mistakes,not muslims problem, al quada made 11/9 and U.S invaded Iraq, oh nice reaction,thats aworld domination,

    The Taleban formed in the 1990s after the Soviets had left and after the US had lost interest in the country.
    The only contribution the US had to the Taleban was the funding they gave the Pakistani ISI to do with as they wished in Afghanistan. They used it for light vehicles and communications and bribe money. It was their mobility and communications and ability to bribe rather than fight in some areas that led to their rapid takeover of the country.

    Iraq's immediate neighbours did not consider Iraq a military threat, so why did the U.S.? Iraq's missiles could reach parts of Europe and Russia but neither Europe nor Russia considered Iraq a threat; indeed, in mid-2002 Russia signed a multi-billion dollar trade deal with Iraq. Only Israel considered Iraq a threat , and in the U.S. Congress and in the Bush Administration what Israel wants Israel gets.

    No. That is not true.

    Saddam was an enormous threat, and it had nothing at all to do with Israel.
    The threat Saddam posed was that he had taken Kuwaite and was on the border of Saudi Arabia.

    The threat was that he controlled Iraqi oil and Kuwaiti oil and was right next to Saudi oil.

    Imagine a world where all those artificial countries created mainly by Britain and France and Germany... all those separate Arab countries became one?

    They would control all that oil. There would be fewer people to bribe and no way to play one arab country off against another to trick them out of stuff.

    Saddams mistake wasn't being a threat to Europe or Israel, it was the threat of a united Arabia under one leader... an enormous threat to oil control in the region, and of course a threat to Israel too... but the threat to the oil that the west is so dependent on was the biggest threat... and why he was so ruthlessly dealt with.

    He invaded Kuwaite and it was the end of the world... even though Kuwaite has never been a democracy... women can't even drive cars or vote there.
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    Russian Patriot

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  Russian Patriot on Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:24 am

    Israel, Hamas Reach Deal to Free Captured Soldier

    VOA News October 11, 2011

    Israeli and Palestinian officials say the Israeli government has reached a deal with the Palestinian militant group Hamas to free captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.

    Sources close to the Egyptian-mediated agreement say Hamas will exchange Shalit for the freedom of about 1,000 Palestinian prisoners. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Cabinet was holding an urgent session Tuesday night to discuss the swap for Shalit, whom Hamas captured in June of 2006.

    Mr. Netanyahu said late Tuesday that the soldier will be home within days.

    The militant group demanded that Israel free thousands of Palestinians detained in Israeli prisons in exchange for Shalit. Israel objected to Hamas demands for the release of some militants convicted of deadly attacks on Israelis.

    The United States says the Middle East Quartet is calling for peace talks among Israelis and Palestinians in Jordan on October 23.

    State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland told reporters Tuesday the request came after Quartet diplomats met on Sunday. She said the U.S., which is part of the Quartet along with the European Union, United Nations and Russia, is "hopeful that both parties will take up that offer."

    Earlier Tuesday, Palestinian protesters clashed with Israeli troops outside a jail near the West Bank city of Ramallah.

    The protesters were demonstrating in solidarity with Palestinian inmates who have gone on a hunger strike to protest prison conditions. Soldiers fired tear gas as protesters hurled stones and other objects at the troops. Several people were injured.

    Hundreds of Palestinian prisoners have joined the hunger strike that started two weeks ago. More than 6,000 Palestinians are held in Israeli jails for crimes ranging from killing Israelis to stone-throwing.

    Israeli officials call the prison conditions satisfactory and say they may resort to force-feeding those on a hunger strike.

    Some information for this report was provided by AP, AFP and Reuters.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2011/10/mil-111011-voa03.htm

    Pervius

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  Pervius on Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:55 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:
    Egypt has no land/ space based Directed Energy systems.


    lol what ? what is the thing tnat israel has that could annihilate an army with 4500 tank,500 aircraft, 5 millions soldiers,ballistic missiles ,3000 Artillery and one of the best air defences in that area?!




    One of the weapons was a dream/future project of the Nazi's. It exists today. Israel's got weapons 100 years ahead of what everyone else has.

    There are a few countries who've been waging war against each other pushing the upper atmosphere up to steer weather patterns. Those weapons also can decimate an entire country by pointing and clicking. China's mastered it. It appears they've even surpassed Russia in that technology realm.

    You know when a storm front is coming old people can feel it in their bones and get weaker? Has to do with the suns emissions/solar wind hitting the Van Allen belt and hyper charging the particles which need a route to release their energy. Control that power system and you can decimate any Army on Earth. By pointing and clicking with a mouse. More powerful than nuclear weapons.

    No one would know you did it.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:39 am

    If anyone had that power they would make it public... terror weapons don't work when no one knows they exist.

    We don't even understand weather patterns properly yet let alone control the weather or anything on that scale.
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    Palestinian

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    Re: Palestine Statehood bid

    Post  Palestinian on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:34 am

    Russian Patriot wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:
    Russian Patriot wrote:Let me be clear: As long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad exist, the statehood will never be legal, and never accepted by Israel , US or the UN.

    Let's be more clear here:

    Propaganda in the west media convinced people there that israel fighting terrorists ,,the arab ones ...wow bombong the gaza strip including 1.2 million citizen in it seems agood way to fight terrorism ...zionism control the media in america and europe ,using it to serve their own goals,,i was talking with abritish guy two years ago...he doesn't know that name (palestine !!) he only know israel.!!.. this is what we called..... media influence.


    joining islam with terrorism is asilly thinking
    even muslim countries from time to another are bombed by terrorists
    wow,how could u be an islamic terrorist and bomb islamic countries ?!! so Terrorism has no religion,,

    HAMAS just defend her country just like FATH,,israel always put more and more obstacles in the way of negotiations ! what will you do if your country is occupied?

    We (egyptians ) tried israels in the past when they occupies sinai,Only by force we restored our land back ,

    do u really think israel could give the land it occupied through negotiations ?!

    i don't see anear solution in future, israel should stop using force against innocent people,,asolution os 2-state would be good,
    but israel doing somethings that delays and stopping that solution
    such athing like separation wall : read


    Human Rights:

    Kofi Annan: "Israel's separation wall 'obstacle' to two-state solution" | The Electronic Intifada

    http://electronicintifada.net/content/kofi-annan-israels-separation-wall-obstacle-two-state-solution/1370


    the British journalist Jonathan Cook hit it right on when he wrote:

    "[Israelis] know exactly what happens: their Zionist training simply blinds them to its significance. As long as the enemy is Arab, as long as the catch-all excuse of security can be invoked, and as long as they believe anti-Semitism lurks everywhere, then the Israeli public can sleep easy as another [Palestinian] child is shot riding his bike, another family's house is bulldozed, another woman miscarries at a checkpoint. ... It seems that a people raised to believe that anything can be done in its name -- as long as it serves the interests of Jews and their state -- has no need of ignorance. It can commit atrocities with eyes wide open." (29)

    And this is not new. Zionist thinker, Ahad Ha'am, described the anti-Arab attitude of the Jewish settlers that came to Palestine to escape repression in Europe, long before Israel was created, as follows:

    "Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora, and suddenly they find themselves in freedom [in Palestine]; and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination." (30)


    israel crimes in palestine exceeded all limits,, by simple words ...Palestinian holocaust..

    PHOTO GALLERY OF GAZA’S MARTYRED CHILDREN:

    http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/phopto-gallery-of-gazas-martyred-children/

    when israel kill those and ,expand Settlement ,, remove buildings of palestinians and contiue on separation wall building......what do u expect from the other side ?!!
    do u expect somthing good ?!!
    any action has areaction ,,that reaction depend on that action

    wow ,striking schools ,it is also contains terrorists Exclamation

    israel actions are not good,so it's simple..u can't expect agood behavior .from the other side.....

    it's not only about ceasefire !! what is next ?!!!
    is ceasing fire will solve the problem ?!!
    how can u ceasefire and in the same time,raping lands day after another and expanding settlement and building separation wall??!
    it's afake ceasefire
    what can u expect from the other side ?!!
    watching u doing that and keep silent !!!

    do u know the meaning of settlement
    imagine youself set in your bedroom after launch to get some rest and suddenly you find soldiers taking u and your family out of house coz this land will be included in that colony....,,oh that's aceasefire!!!!!

    also hamas not always breaking ceasefire...israel also did

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1531571/Hamas-threatens-to-break-ceasefire-after-Israeli-air-strikes.html


    hamas also accepted the 2 state solution:
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915


    see finkelstein...his father and mother died in the holcaust but he refuse the massacres of israel coz he know it well,he feels it coz he faced things like it by germans










    Well I understand you are supporting your Arab brothers, I have to counter:

    These " freedom fighters" Hamas as you try to portray them, bomb Haifa ( where my family lives) with Qassam rockets 16 times a day, how is that fighting for freedom?


    Israel only answers with airstrikes in retaliation to attacks ( which is why they attacked in 2007 , after Capt. Shalad was kidnapped)

    About Bombing schools: Hamas openly admits to stockpiling weapons in civilian areas and uses citizens as human shields or better yet shadi (suicide bombers).

    About Fatah: Even though they are now moderate, this is the same PLO which brought civil war in Lebanon with the Falange and Hezbollah in the 80's, and they want a state( with 1967 borders which Israel fairly won , including Jerusalem, mind you) while not even admitting Israel, how can Israel give land to factions that don't admit it?


    Now Sinai, Israel gave you it back in 1979 , following a peace treaty in 1979 when Sadat was president of Egypt, and yet rather then help Israel defend its borders , against terrorists, your countrymen burn the Israeli embassy in Cairo, after a tragic mistake that could of been prevented due your border guards identifying themselves.


    I agree Netanyhu was wrong in his act though, but I understand his motives..

    You say your family is in haifa, shouldn't they be living in Russia since their Russian? what do you consider yourself a Russian-American-European-middleastern-jew? are you a zionist? i don't think it is possible to be a zionist jew and a Russian Patriot at the same time. To whom does your loyalty go with Russia, America or ''Israel''?

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