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    Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

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    Vladislav
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    Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Vladislav on Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:37 pm

    Russia conducted a test launch "Sineva"
    15.07.2009

    A source in the Russian military department told RIA Novosti that the Russian Navy on 13 July launched a full sea-based ballistic missile RSM-54 "Blue" (by NATO - SS-N-23 Skiff).

    According to a source, the launch was carried out with the strategic submarine of project 667 (BDRM), the Northern Fleet (by NATO - the Delta-4 "). Where tests, they told journalists not.

    Earlier, July 13, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said that Russia has successfully conducted a test of strategic sea-based missiles, but did not specify its name. A source in the Defense Ministry, spoke to the correspondent of agency "Interfax", are also not told the name of weapons, but said that the launch took place on the program of extending the life of the missiles. "

    Three-stage liquid-range ballistic missile "Blue" was adopted by the summer of 2007. According to RIA Novosti, its length is about 15 meters, diameter - 1,9 meter, and the starting weight - about 40 tons. In autumn 2008, "Blue" has set a record distance flight - 11 thousand 547 kilometers (with the estimated range of 8300 kilometers). Russia plans to release about 100 of these missiles.
    14.07.2009

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:51 am

    We have had so many Baluva failures we should just equip the Yuri D. with Sineva. It has longer range and better payload. Funding Baluva makes little sense to me but I am a paratrooper, not a sailor.

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Vladislav on Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:34 am

    Admin wrote:We have had so many Baluva failures we should just equip the Yuri D. with Sineva. It has longer range and better payload. Funding Baluva makes little sense to me but I am a paratrooper, not a sailor.

    Baluva is supposed to have better penetration and advanced maneuvering charateristics. The booster fuel is supposed to keep better too. If Baluva fails I am sure they will adopt Sineva, but we should see if we can get it too work first as it is the next generation ballistic missile.

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    Sineva to replace Bulava if tests fail

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:26 pm

    "Bulava" on submarines replaced by "blue"
    17.08.2009

    In case of further missile tests failed "Bulava" on the latest nuclear submarines Project 955 "Borey" may be inferred intercontinental sea-based ballistic missiles RSM-54 "Blue."

    "" Blue ", adopted by the in 2007 - the most likely alternative" Bulava ". If a failure with" Bulava "will continue, this program is likely to be suspended, and will begin re-built missile project" Northwind "under" Sineva ", - explained the agency" Interfax "a source in space-rocket industry - The procedure is usually expensive, but a more acceptable option in the event of such a development simply do not."

    July 15, during the 11-th test launch "Bulava" missile self-destruct because of a freelance operation of the first stage. Of the previous ten starts, five were found to be unsuccessful. In July, from office has been dismissed Yuri Solomon - Managing Director and General Designer of Moscow Institute of Thermal Engineering, which is developing a "Bulava". This type of missile was planned to arm a nuclear missile "Yuri Dolgoruky, which in early August, has completed the first phase of running the tests before sending in the Navy.

    The missile RSM-54 "Blue", developed by State Rocket Center Makeeva (Miass, Chelyabinsk region), will be armed with the Navy Russia at least until 2015, and has great potential for modernization.

    RSM-54 "Blue" (by NATO - Skiff SS-N-23) - the third generation of intercontinental missiles, liquid, weight - 40.3 tons, length - 14.8 m, range - 8900 km. The payload missiles could consist of four individually-guided warheads.

    Missile-armed strategic missile project 667BDRM (Class "Dolphin"), based in the Northern Fleet. 13 and 14 Jul., 2009 Navy Russia has carried out two successful start-up "blue" from the board of submarines "Briansk and Yekaterinburg, which is in the Arctic region.

    Ballistic missile "Bulava" should become the basis for future maritime strategic nuclear forces. It can carry up to ten individually guided nuclear units. Range Missiles - 8 thousand kilometers. Since December 2003, missile Bulava "pass the test of converted to the" Sevmash "submarine" Dmitrii Donskoy "(draft 941u).

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Stealthflanker on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:16 am

    oh good.. now let's see the progress.. at least Russia have "insurance" if Bulava fails again

    anyway will Sineva compatible with Borey's Launch tube ?.. hmm since if it's not..the modification costs would be a problem :bom:

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:16 pm

    Its going to take some expensive modifications, but we really wont have a choice unless we want a missileless submarine.

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Viktor on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:22 pm

    I think Bulava replacment is never gona happen simply because Bulava is most advanced SLBM out there by far.

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    Sineva - R-29RM SLBM

    Post  Austin on Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:09 pm

    The new Sineva SLBM for upgraded Delta 4 SSBN ( credits artjomh/militaryphotos )

    Old R-29R on Delta 4 and Delta 3 schematic and its warhead bus look like.





    And this is R-29RM Sineva. It has two boost stages and a third staged mated with the warhead bus.







    And here's what Sineva's Glonass receiver antennas look like.













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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Austin on Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:23 pm

    Russian military anthem-type song, dedicated to 667BDRM (Delta IV) and Sineva



    Sineva Popup Launch


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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:47 pm


    Russia set to continue tests of Bulava missile in June

    The first test launch of Russia's sea-based Bulava ballistic missile this year will be carried out in June, missile designer Yury Solomonov said on Thursday.

    "The launch will be carried out as soon as the ice melts...sometime in June," Solomonov said.

    The Bulava (SS-NX-30) SLBM carries up to 10 MIRV warheads and has a range of over 8,000 kilometers (5,000 miles).

    The Russian Navy plans to deploy the Bulava on the new Borey class strategic submarines.

    Despite several previous failures, officially blamed on manufacturing defaults, the Russian military has insisted that there is no alternative to the Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missile, and pledged to continue testing the missile until it is ready for service with the Navy.

    In the last test in late October, a Bulava missile was successfully test-fired from the Dmitry Donskoi nuclear-powered submarine in the White Sea, hitting a target on a test range in Russia's Far East Kamchatka region some 6,000 kilometers to the east.

    Solomonov said that the next launch could be carried out either by the Dmitry Donskoi or Yury Dolgoruky submarines.

    Russia is planning to conduct at least four test launches of the Bulava missile this year. If they are successful, the missile will be put in service by yearend.



    MOSCOW, March 17 (RIA Novosti)

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110317/163057299.html

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:31 am

    The thing is that if it really is manufacturing faults that is the problem for Bulava... why isn't the Sineva suffering from the same manufacturing problems.

    I am no rocket scientist but I would think the design of a liquid fuelled rockets with pumps and pipes and storage tanks for very dangerous chemicals makes the Sineva a much more complicated design than a solid fuelled Bulava...

    And it is not like they have no experience with solid fuelled missiles... the SS-N-20 carried by the Typhoon class was solid fuelled.

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:17 am

    I was just going to start a similar thread however, it was a question regarding Russian SLBMs. For the article I cannot find whether there is a difference b/w Sineva & Skiff SLBMS. I mean the the former is updated & can carry 10 warheads as oppose to the latter carrying 4. Also Sineva has 11000km range & Skiff 8000. I don't know some sources such as WIKi distinguished b/w them but not the other sites including RIA Novosti. So plz can anyone clarify??
    Also are there two or three liquid stages in Skiff? dunno

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:23 am

    GarryB wrote:The thing is that if it really is manufacturing faults that is the problem for Bulava... why isn't the Sineva suffering from the same manufacturing problems.

    I am no rocket scientist but I would think the design of a liquid fuelled rockets with pumps and pipes and storage tanks for very dangerous chemicals makes the Sineva a much more complicated design than a solid fuelled Bulava...

    And it is not like they have no experience with solid fuelled missiles... the SS-N-20 carried by the Typhoon class was solid fuelled.
    Question is why it was retired. I think they had some problems with solid propulsion like they are getting with Bulava. Also from technical point of view solid propelled Rif was two times more heavy than Liquid propelled Skiff

    Skiff: Weight (lbs): 89060 = 44.53tons http://warfare.ru/?linkid=1714&catid=265
    Riff Weight 84 tonnes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-39_Rif

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:22 pm


    Question is why it was retired. I think they had some problems with
    solid propulsion like they are getting with Bulava. Also from technical
    point of view solid propelled Rif was two times more heavy than Liquid
    propelled Skiff

    There were no problems at all with the solid fuel SS-N-20 from a performance perspective, it did the job it was required to do.

    From a design perspective their solid fuel technology wasn't great so they ended up with a very heavy missile, but this was compounded by the fact that their liquid rockets were so good.

    The SS-N-20 left Soviet/Russian service because the only vessel that could carry a reasonable number of missiles that heavy was the Typhoon class and it is no longer in active service as an SSBN... the only vessel remaining in service is a modified version for testing the Bulava.

    The problem with Bulava is not that it is solid fuelled, it is that the company making it has no experience at all with SLBMs and a naval environment is very different from being mounted on a truck or in a land based silo.

    Try this page:

    http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/r39/r39.shtml (in Russian)

    The replacement for the SS-N-20 R-39 was the R-39M also known as Bark.
    It was cancelled ironically after a few test failures.

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:08 pm

    Thankfully, we do not have to worry about Bulava anymore so Sineva will not be retrofitted to new submarines.

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Austin on Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:33 am

    Well hopefully , I would reserve those statements till i see 5 successful launch this year which they are planning for Bulava.

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:10 am

    During the development of the SS-N-20 there were quite a few failures too and it turned out the be an excellent weapon in service.

    Very old liquid fuelled missiles had to be fuelled up before launch which was complicated and slow. Later missiles used storable liquid fuels which meant they were ready to fire... but anyone who owns a house with plumbing in it will know that leaks can be a problem... well when the propellents react with seawater to create incredibly toxic fumes then obviously you have serious problems. More modern missiles are better sealed and have performed much better but it has only been the solid fuel rockets that don't have that problem.

    Of course an 80 ton solid fuelled missile needs to be carefully handled as it is loaded and there was one accident where an SS-N-20 was dropped during loading that led to a very badly burnt Typhoon class vessel later nicknamed red october. The rubber outer surface was badly burned. Of course they load the missile and then fit the warhead so there was no radiation problems AFAIK.
    With liquid fuelled rockets you load the empty rocket filled with pressurised air to keep it rigid and then once in the silo you pump the fuels in and then fit the warhead.

    If they do swap to Sineva then the problems are not over because Sineva is an excellent missile but it is not the same size as the Bulava which will mean a lot of expensive modifications.

    I am sure however that Bulava will be fine.

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:17 am

    Russia ready to equip 1st Borey class sub with Bulava missiles


    A missile production plant in southern Siberia has produced enough Bulava ballistic missiles to complete its tests and arm the first Borey class strategic submarine, Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov said on Monday.

    "A batch of missiles sufficient to finish the tests and equip one submarine has been produced already. Larger production would cause the missiles to stock up," Ivanov said after a meeting of defense industry officials in the southern Siberian republic of Udmurtia.

    The Bulava (SS-NX-30) submarine-launched ballistic missile carries up to 10 MIRV warheads and has a range of over 8,000 kilometers (5,000 miles).

    Despite several previous failures, officially blamed on manufacturing defaults, the Russian military has insisted that there is no alternative to the Bulava and pledged to continue testing the missile until it is ready for service with the Navy.

    Russia is planning to conduct at least four Bulava test launches this year and deploy it on the new Borey class strategic submarines.

    The tests launches will most likely be conducted from the Yury Dolgoruky.

    The Yury Dolgoruky, which has recently completed sea trials in the White Sea, is expected to enter service with the Russian Navy in the near future, pending the outcome of the Bulava testing.

    Three other Borey class nuclear submarines, the Alexander Nevsky, the Vladimir Monomakh, and Svyatitel Nikolai (St. Nicholas) are in different stages of completion. Russia is planning to build eight of these subs by 2015.



    VOTKINSK (Siberia), March 21 (RIA Novosti)

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110321/163131863.html

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:51 pm

    Russia successfully tests Sineva SLBM

    Russia has successfully test-fired the Sineva submarine-launched ballistic missile from a Delta-IV class submarine, a defense ministry spokesman said.

    The missile, lauched from the Yekaterinburg submarine, hit the designated target on time, the source said.

    The RSM-54 Sineva (NATO codename SS-N-23 Skiff) is a third-generation liquid-propellant submarine-launched ballistic missile that entered service with the Russian Navy in July 2007. It has a maximum range of over 10,000 km and can carry four to 10 nuclear warheads, depending on the modification.

    The last Sineva test launch was held in October 2010.

    The Russian Navy has seven Delta-IV class submarines in service. They are all deployed in the Northern Fleet.

    MOSCOW, April 27 (RIA Novosti)

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110427/163727232.html

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  coolieno99 on Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:09 am

    Russia test fires Sineva missile in Barents Sea

    MOSCOW, July 27 (RIA Novosti)

    Russia successfully test fired a Sineva submarine launched ballistic missile in the Barents Sea on Wednesday, Defense Ministry spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov said.
    The missile was launched from the Northern Fleet's Yekaterinburg nuclear powered submarine and hit a designated target at Kamchatka's Kura test site in Russia's Far East.
    The RSM-54 Sineva (SS-N-23 Skiff in NATO classification) is a third-generation liquid-propellant submarine-launched ballistic missile that entered service with the Russian Navy in July 2007.
    It has a maximum range of over 10,000 km and can carry four to 10 nuclear warheads.



    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110727/165419044.html

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Pervius on Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:26 pm

    If HAARP is used to change atmospheric air density a solid fuel rocket can't overcome the added air density such technology could create. It would be like the hand of God holding your missile down at 30,000 feet...it just sits there and spins making a pretty spiral in the sky.

    A liquid fuel rocket can be made to overcome this technology and give more thrust than a solid fuel rocket. Hence why solid fuel missiles are out the door. If the enemy can pick up your missile on launch they can stop it using HAARP. Liquid fueled rocket has more oomph.

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:35 am

    If there was a way of making the air denser above a certain height even if it was for a short period that would not stop a missile already travelling at supersonic speed.

    It would certainly reduce the max range of the missile but would not stop it and hold it in mid flight.


    @nightcrawler the best source for Soviet missiles on the web is probably: http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/

    If you speak and read Russian.

    If you can't then:
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    is very good too.

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  Pervius on Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:46 pm

    There are science papers that theorize HAARP can increase air density to make a plane "hit a brick wall".

    Isn't this the reason Russian missiles tests all make pretty spirals in the sky? They are being held down?

    First two stages of Bulava is solid fueled, those are the stages you induce drag while you can. Third Stage is maneuverable liquid fuel, this stage you push up atmosphere to induce drag on it until THAAD kills it or Airborne Lazer.

    HAARP can push up atmosphere to induce drag on satellites, can induce unexpected drag on Bulava 3rd Stage.

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:12 am

    There are science papers that theorize HAARP can increase air density to make a plane "hit a brick wall".

    To increase the earths atmosphere to anything like a solid is a joke... dense air is heavy and would descend rapidly to the ground... to create dense air at altitude would require a lot of air to be compressed and that air would have to come from somewhere... so to make a dense lump of air the air around the area would need to be compressed into a much smaller space... which means a small area of dense air surrounded by a newly created vacuum where the extra air was taken from. And there is still no way to gather the air together and compress it into a dense mass.

    Sounds like a load of rubbish to me.

    Isn't this the reason Russian missiles tests all make pretty spirals in the sky? They are being held down?

    The very first rocket weapon that was effective that did not need fins or sticks used deflector plates in the exhaust so that the rocket exhaust created spin as well as thrust to stabilise the rocket in flight.

    The pretty spirals is the exhaust gasses in space and upper atmosphere spinning the rocket to protect it from laser attack. To blow something up with a laser you concentrate the laser beam on a single small point and energy builds up and it blows a hole in the target. Something as fragile as a rocket can be destroyed in seconds.
    Spinning the rocket however means you can't concentrate the beam on one point and protects the rocket booster from laser attack.

    First two stages of Bulava is solid fueled, those are the stages you induce drag while you can. Third Stage is maneuverable liquid fuel, this stage you push up atmosphere to induce drag on it until THAAD kills it or Airborne Lazer.

    Bulava is a SLBM with MARV warheads. By the time the first two stages have burnt out the third stage will be in space with zero air friction and will be manouvering to release the various warheads on their trajectories to hit their specified targets. It doesn't use a warhead bus like a conventional SLBM or ICBM as such that releases warheads towards targets as the bus passes them. In other words the third stage is very very small.

    The third stage is not where you can increase air density because even if you increase it a million times... a million times zero is zero.

    THAAD is not an ABM system. The T in THAAD stands for theatre and it was initially designed to engage Scud like threats... not SLBMs like Bulava.

    ABL is designed to shoot at rocket boosters on their way up into space, not reentry vehicles coming down from space. The former is fuel filled thin lightweight structures vulnerable to fire... the latter are very small... MANOEUVRING objects covered in ablative material to survive the enormous friction of reentry.

    HAARP can push up atmosphere to induce drag on satellites, can induce unexpected drag on Bulava 3rd Stage.

    When has it done this?

    To push the atmosphere up it would need to reduce the density of air, not increase it.

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    Re: Sineva / Liner (R-29RM) SLBMs:

    Post  coolieno99 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:08 am

    GarryB wrote:
    @nightcrawler the best source for Soviet missiles on the web is probably: http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/

    If you speak and read Russian.
    An alternative is to use Mozilla Firefox browser. Go to Tools drop-down menu. Select Add-ons. Search for translator. Install add-on, My-Translator 0.2.3 (there are others, but this is the one I used). Re-boot Firefox to activate add-on. To use it on foreign-language webpage, Right-click to pop up context menu. Select Translate Current Page.

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