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    Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

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    awmz

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    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  awmz Fri May 07, 2021 5:47 pm

    Tactical Report says that "the delay in concluding the additional Rafale deal between the Egyptian and French sides, the previous period, was led by the United States and Israel due to their unwillingness to have Egypt obtain Meteor long-range AA missiles to preserve Israel's air and technical superiority.
    France will also Upgrade 24 Egyptian Rafale fighters that are in service and establish a maintenance and training center in Egypt
    The site says that Egypt will get Meteor missiles with the additional 30 Rafale deal
    The Rafale fighters that are in service will be upgraded to be able to operate the missile as well." Now everything is starting to make sense
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    Post  Gomig-21 Fri May 07, 2021 11:11 pm

    Isos wrote:Link 16 is the datalink used only by nato forces. You don't have it.

    I don't know about your own datalink, local made or US made, but you don't have link 16.

    Neither your Rafales nor your f-16 have it. Even close allies like Israel or Japan don't have it.

    They may keep the same equipement but softwares are changed. So your not part of link 16 but you can integrate your western stuff togather. You may have been ble to interact with US planes because US have total control of link 16.

    That's like they gave you the ps5 that they use to play online within nato but changed the software so that you can't play with them but only with other egyptians. That's what you have to understand.

    Link 16 is the backbone of NATO forces, and a weak one. Now if they give it to countries like Egypt, china and russia will hav3 total access.

    So not only do the F-16s not have it to share data rapidly with the E-2C Hawkeys and during US & NATO exercises but now you're telling us our Rafales don't have it either?  It doesn't have to be connected to any NATO communications within their shared Link-16.  It's programmed to be independent of certain other users.  But because the Rafales was fully integrated and just needed to be programmed to the EAF platforms and enabled, they decided to take it's functioning concept and create their own data sharing linkage among all the platforms in Egypt since the Link-16 can't do that.  Here's a source for the Rafale's Link-16 in Egypt.  

    However, Egypt has been operating European and American platforms in a coordinated manner since 1980. One main reason, Mahmoud Gamal, Egyptian defense and geopolitics observer explained, is the ease of sharing data through the E-2C Hawkeye, an upgraded model of the American-made tactical airborne early warning and control aircraft (AEW&C).

    “The air force relies on its Rafale to link aircraft of different origins since it is equipped with Link-16 tactical data links or non-NATO solutions,” he said, in order “to operate with different platforms and assets.”


    The Link-16 in the Rafale didn't have all the restrictions on it as the ones on the block 40 upgrades but eventually I'll find you a source on that since my info comes almost straight from the horse's mouth.

    So in reality, the Link-16 was only going to be useful when flying with American and NATO members like Greece when they get their Rafales as well as their Viper upgrade (which I sure wish we were getting since it include the killer new SAHR AESA radar as well as new AIM-120 & 9X and adding Link-16 to those who don't have it already.  It was refused to Egypt.

    So back to the locally developed data sharing system was strictly done because of our mixture of Western and Russian aircraft.

    How is the Egyptian Air Force able to operate its fleet of mixed origin?


    Egypt’s fleet of military aircraft are able to share data and coordinate activity despite their mixed origins, thanks to a locally made command center, according to an Egyptian armed forces expert.

    It’s rare to witness an air force flying fighter jets and helicopters of different origins, but Egypt operates aircraft from Russia, China, the United States and European nations.

    “When it comes to the Egyptian Air Force in particular, it is definitely not possible for [American-made] E-2C Hawkeye 2000 early warning aircraft in service, for example, to direct the [Russian-made] MiG-29 fighters and exchange data with them, as is the case with the [American-made] F-16 and [French-made] Rafale fighters,” said Mohamed al-Kenany, a military affairs researcher and defense analyst at the Arab Forum for Analyzing Iranian Policies in Cairo.

    “However, data is being shared between the different-origin aircraft through the command-and-control centers that are equipped with dedicated systems capable of linking the various radar, aircraft, sensors, reconnaissance and electronic warfare systems, and integrating all the information and data they receive into a unified system named RISC2.”

    The Radar Integration and Surveillance Command Center was made by the Egyptian military’s Research and Development Department; Benha Electronics, which is affiliated with the Ministry of Military Production; the Military Technical College; and the Egyptian Air Defense Forces.

    The RISC2 is an Egyptian-made system that was introduced during EDEX 2018. (Courtesy of Mohamed al-Kenany)

    RISC2 was introduced during the 2018 Egypt Defense Expo and is meant to automate control-and-command tasks. The platform is equipped with tools for flight planning, control systems for radars and various monitoring sensors (including models from the United States, Russia, China, France, Britain and Egypt), an automatic flight-tracking system, a network management system, and cybersecurity.

    Al-Kenany said in addition to linking aircraft, the system allows the military’s land and sea combat platforms to share data.

    “This system enables the dynamic exchange of integrated data with various command-and-control centers, with the next generation of cyber protection systems and firewalls ... as well as the Egyptian surface-to-air missile command center to analyze and assess the risks and air threats, and [determine] the type of air defense systems needed to deal with these threats,” he added.

    He hasn’t observed any problems with Egypt’s air defense systems differentiating enemy aircraft from friendly ones. “The various types of IFF [identification friend or foe systems] produced by different companies for Egypt’s armed forces are designed to be compatible with all the systems and equipment operational in the country, and hence identifying their specific frequencies and codes as friendly, which prevents friendly fires,” he explained.

    To overcome delays in data sharing, the Air Force looked to the Rafale "to link aircraft of different origins during the flight, since it is equipped not only with Link 16 data links but also with other solutions for non-NATO countries to operate in integrated operational [environments] with all platforms and with friendly combat assets, and airborne command and control, which allows it to operate in harmony with modern Russian fighters operating for the Egyptian Air Force,” al-Kenany explained.

    He also pointed to Egypt’s TIBA-1 communications satellite, which was launched onboard an Ariane 5 rocket in November 2019 for government communications and military purposes. He said the satellite will facilitate data sharing between Air Force fighters and helicopter of different origins.

    What is Egypt flying?

    In terms of Western systems, the Egyptian Air Force currently operates 24 Rafale fighter jets (and wants to double that number), 20 F-16 Block 52 fighters, 10 AH-64D Apache Longbow helicopters (with plans to double its inventory), 15 Mirage 2000 jets, and eight early warning E-2C Hawkeye planes.

    From the East, the service operates 46 MiG-29M fighter jets, 46 Ka-52 Alligator armed reconnaissance helicopters, and an unknown number of Mi-24 combat multirole helicopters, which first appeared in Egyptian service in 2018. The Air Force also ordered 24 Su-35S Super Flanker jets but has only received five so far, according to Russian media.

    Egypt turned to Russia after the U.S. did not approve its request to acquire roughly two dozen F-35 fighter jets, an Egyptian military official told The Associated Press in 2019. The Russian deal for Su-35s was meant to diversify Egypt’s weapon suppliers because the U.S. has previously stopped military assistance over human rights concerns, said another official.

    “Moving to diversify sources of military equipment and especially fighter jets is a direct consequence to embargos from specific countries, or monopoly of technology and refraining from technology transfer,” Lebanese Member of Parliament Wehbe Katicha, a retired Army general, told Defense News.

    But the mixed fleet hasn’t significantly impacted training between Egypt and NATO members, al-Kenany said.

    “Drills have been going on as scheduled between Egypt and NATO countries, but it is worth noting that I’ve never noticed a Russian aircraft in the drills with Western countries, or a Western aircraft in the drill with Russia. The only exception to this was the presence of Ka-52 with the mistral trainings.”

    https://www.c4isrnet.com/battlefiel...s-fleet-of-mixed-origin/#.X5pv5IrtHlQ.twitter
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    awmz

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    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  awmz Mon May 10, 2021 12:35 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:
    Isos wrote:Link 16 is the datalink used only by nato forces. You don't have it.

    I don't know about your own datalink, local made or US made, but you don't have link 16.

    Neither your Rafales nor your f-16 have it. Even close allies like Israel or Japan don't have it.

    They may keep the same equipement but softwares are changed. So your not part of link 16 but you can integrate your western stuff togather. You may have been ble to interact with US planes because US have total control of link 16.

    That's like they gave you the ps5 that they use to play online within nato but changed the software so that you can't play with them but only with other egyptians. That's what you have to understand.

    Link 16 is the backbone of NATO forces, and a weak one. Now if they give it to countries like Egypt, china and russia will hav3 total access.

    So not only do the F-16s not have it to share data rapidly with the E-2C Hawkeys and during US & NATO exercises but now you're telling us our Rafales don't have it either?  It doesn't have to be connected to any NATO communications within their shared Link-16.  It's programmed to be independent of certain other users.  But because the Rafales was fully integrated and just needed to be programmed to the EAF platforms and enabled, they decided to take it's functioning concept and create their own data sharing linkage among all the platforms in Egypt since the Link-16 can't do that.  Here's a source for the Rafale's Link-16 in Egypt.  

    However, Egypt has been operating European and American platforms in a coordinated manner since 1980. One main reason, Mahmoud Gamal, Egyptian defense and geopolitics observer explained, is the ease of sharing data through the E-2C Hawkeye, an upgraded model of the American-made tactical airborne early warning and control aircraft (AEW&C).

    “The air force relies on its Rafale to link aircraft of different origins since it is equipped with Link-16 tactical data links or non-NATO solutions,” he said, in order “to operate with different platforms and assets.”


    The Link-16 in the Rafale didn't have all the restrictions on it as the ones on the block 40 upgrades but eventually I'll find you a source on that since my info comes almost straight from the horse's mouth.

    So in reality, the Link-16 was only going to be useful when flying with American and NATO members like Greece when they get their Rafales as well as their Viper upgrade (which I sure wish we were getting since it include the killer new SAHR AESA radar as well as new AIM-120 & 9X and adding Link-16 to those who don't have it already.  It was refused to Egypt.

    So back to the locally developed data sharing system was strictly done because of our mixture of Western and Russian aircraft.

    How is the Egyptian Air Force able to operate its fleet of mixed origin?


    Egypt’s fleet of military aircraft are able to share data and coordinate activity despite their mixed origins, thanks to a locally made command center, according to an Egyptian armed forces expert.

    It’s rare to witness an air force flying fighter jets and helicopters of different origins, but Egypt operates aircraft from Russia, China, the United States and European nations.

    “When it comes to the Egyptian Air Force in particular, it is definitely not possible for [American-made] E-2C Hawkeye 2000 early warning aircraft in service, for example, to direct the [Russian-made] MiG-29 fighters and exchange data with them, as is the case with the [American-made] F-16 and [French-made] Rafale fighters,” said Mohamed al-Kenany, a military affairs researcher and defense analyst at the Arab Forum for Analyzing Iranian Policies in Cairo.

    “However, data is being shared between the different-origin aircraft through the command-and-control centers that are equipped with dedicated systems capable of linking the various radar, aircraft, sensors, reconnaissance and electronic warfare systems, and integrating all the information and data they receive into a unified system named RISC2.”

    The Radar Integration and Surveillance Command Center was made by the Egyptian military’s Research and Development Department; Benha Electronics, which is affiliated with the Ministry of Military Production; the Military Technical College; and the Egyptian Air Defense Forces.

    The RISC2 is an Egyptian-made system that was introduced during EDEX 2018. (Courtesy of Mohamed al-Kenany)

    RISC2 was introduced during the 2018 Egypt Defense Expo and is meant to automate control-and-command tasks. The platform is equipped with tools for flight planning, control systems for radars and various monitoring sensors (including models from the United States, Russia, China, France, Britain and Egypt), an automatic flight-tracking system, a network management system, and cybersecurity.

    Al-Kenany said in addition to linking aircraft, the system allows the military’s land and sea combat platforms to share data.

    “This system enables the dynamic exchange of integrated data with various command-and-control centers, with the next generation of cyber protection systems and firewalls ... as well as the Egyptian surface-to-air missile command center to analyze and assess the risks and air threats, and [determine] the type of air defense systems needed to deal with these threats,” he added.

    He hasn’t observed any problems with Egypt’s air defense systems differentiating enemy aircraft from friendly ones. “The various types of IFF [identification friend or foe systems] produced by different companies for Egypt’s armed forces are designed to be compatible with all the systems and equipment operational in the country, and hence identifying their specific frequencies and codes as friendly, which prevents friendly fires,” he explained.

    To overcome delays in data sharing, the Air Force looked to the Rafale "to link aircraft of different origins during the flight, since it is equipped not only with Link 16 data links but also with other solutions for non-NATO countries to operate in integrated operational [environments] with all platforms and with friendly combat assets, and airborne command and control, which allows it to operate in harmony with modern Russian fighters operating for the Egyptian Air Force,” al-Kenany explained.

    He also pointed to Egypt’s TIBA-1 communications satellite, which was launched onboard an Ariane 5 rocket in November 2019 for government communications and military purposes. He said the satellite will facilitate data sharing between Air Force fighters and helicopter of different origins.

    What is Egypt flying?

    In terms of Western systems, the Egyptian Air Force currently operates 24 Rafale fighter jets (and wants to double that number), 20 F-16 Block 52 fighters, 10 AH-64D Apache Longbow helicopters (with plans to double its inventory), 15 Mirage 2000 jets, and eight early warning E-2C Hawkeye planes.

    From the East, the service operates 46 MiG-29M fighter jets, 46 Ka-52 Alligator armed reconnaissance helicopters, and an unknown number of Mi-24 combat multirole helicopters, which first appeared in Egyptian service in 2018. The Air Force also ordered 24 Su-35S Super Flanker jets but has only received five so far, according to Russian media.

    Egypt turned to Russia after the U.S. did not approve its request to acquire roughly two dozen F-35 fighter jets, an Egyptian military official told The Associated Press in 2019. The Russian deal for Su-35s was meant to diversify Egypt’s weapon suppliers because the U.S. has previously stopped military assistance over human rights concerns, said another official.

    “Moving to diversify sources of military equipment and especially fighter jets is a direct consequence to embargos from specific countries, or monopoly of technology and refraining from technology transfer,” Lebanese Member of Parliament Wehbe Katicha, a retired Army general, told Defense News.

    But the mixed fleet hasn’t significantly impacted training between Egypt and NATO members, al-Kenany said.

    “Drills have been going on as scheduled between Egypt and NATO countries, but it is worth noting that I’ve never noticed a Russian aircraft in the drills with Western countries, or a Western aircraft in the drill with Russia. The only exception to this was the presence of Ka-52 with the mistral trainings.”

    https://www.c4isrnet.com/battlefiel...s-fleet-of-mixed-origin/#.X5pv5IrtHlQ.twitter
    Its fine Isos comes every once in a while and pulls some bs out of his *** then when you refute him with facts he goes missing
    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Fri May 21, 2021 5:49 pm

    I never read that Egypt got Link-16 and it's not a problem as other communication systems are available and probably they produced local one .

    Ka-52 photos

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 _eeeie10
    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Eeeeei10
    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Eeeeei11

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    Post  Gomig-21 Fri May 21, 2021 11:52 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:I never read that Egypt got Link-16 and it's not a problem as other communication systems are available and probably they produced local one .

    Nice photos of the Nile Crocodile.

    Yes they've already produced the new RISC2 2-way data link system based on the Rafale's Link-16 because the French allowed the technical inspection and learning of the way it works and is made up of and Egypt has very good domestic radar production that was unveiled in the last EDEX.   But I have a question for you, with the two C-130 Compass Calls and especially the E-2C hawkeyes, how do you think they shared data with the huge fleet of F-16 not to mention other platforms?  Rotary phone dialing and giving verbal coordinates?  lol ma3lesh ana b7azar m3ak.

    EDIT: Here's a better post:

    Things do not look complicated for Russian Mig-29 and Su-35 aircraft either.

    “The process of linking, exchanging, and sharing data will happen through the ground command and control centers, by receiving and indirectly sharing data between the fighters, various combat platforms and the command-and-control system,” Gamal said, given that these platforms operate within the scope of the ground command and control network.
    “If this happens, data sharing between Western and Eastern aircraft will highly increase,” he told me. “Not only will this improve jam resistance and situational awareness, but also increase data throughput and capacity of information exchange.”

    “The F3R Rafale aircraft has a new and more advanced data link able to exchange information and images with different types of fighters and aircraft,” he told me. “The aircraft will also be fitted with a new satellite link that increases the operational range of data transfer with the ground command and control stations and monitor all changes through long-range air operations.”

    For Western-made fighters, data sharing for Egypt is easy as fighters “carry unified Link-16 tactical data links or connect through early warning platforms currently in service with the Egyptian Air Force, such as E2C Hawkeye AEW & C,” Gamal said.

    To do so, Egypt relies on its indigenous Radar Integration and Surveillance Center (RISC2), an integrated system that jointly undertakes the tasks of battle management, command and control of air defense and air force units as well as gathering, analyzing and sharing data.

    Also, Egypt recently launched Tiba-1 satellite that will be serving both the military communications network and armed forces command and control network while facilitating the process of exchanging data for analysis.

    https://breakingdefense.com/2021/05...8EVtFk1Hu4LJJJee0AS1QW_8WPXiSaNEejk-TqbAVD0zk



    It's impossible for the EAF to have 8 E-2C Hawkeyes and that huge fleet of F-16s to not have Link-16 even if it was limited in some way. Once the Rafale showed up, that changed things and helped Egypt build its domestic version.
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    Post  ahmedfire Sat May 22, 2021 11:14 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:I never read that Egypt got Link-16 and it's not a problem as other communication systems are available and probably they produced local one .

    Nice photos of the Nile Crocodile.

    Yes they've already produced the new RISC2 2-way data link system based on the Rafale's Link-16 because the French allowed the technical inspection and learning of the way it works and is made up of and Egypt has very good domestic radar production that was unveiled in the last EDEX.   But I have a question for you, with the two C-130 Compass Calls and especially the E-2C hawkeyes, how do you think they shared data with the huge fleet of F-16 not to mention other platforms?  Rotary phone dialing and giving verbal coordinates?  lol ma3lesh ana b7azar m3ak.

    EDIT:  Here's a better post:

    Things do not look complicated for Russian Mig-29 and Su-35 aircraft either.

    “The process of linking, exchanging, and sharing data will happen through the ground command and control centers, by receiving and indirectly sharing data between the fighters, various combat platforms and the command-and-control system,” Gamal said, given that these platforms operate within the scope of the ground command and control network.
    “If this happens, data sharing between Western and Eastern aircraft will highly increase,” he told me. “Not only will this improve jam resistance and situational awareness, but also increase data throughput and capacity of information exchange.”

    “The F3R Rafale aircraft has a new and more advanced data link able to exchange information and images with different types of fighters and aircraft,” he told me. “The aircraft will also be fitted with a new satellite link that increases the operational range of data transfer with the ground command and control stations and monitor all changes through long-range air operations.”

    For Western-made fighters, data sharing for Egypt is easy as fighters “carry unified Link-16 tactical data links or connect through early warning platforms currently in service with the Egyptian Air Force, such as E2C Hawkeye AEW & C,” Gamal said.

    To do so, Egypt relies on its indigenous Radar Integration and Surveillance Center (RISC2), an integrated system that jointly undertakes the tasks of battle management, command and control of air defense and air force units as well as gathering, analyzing and sharing data.

    Also, Egypt recently launched Tiba-1 satellite that will be serving both the military communications network and armed forces command and control network while facilitating the process of exchanging data for analysis.

    https://breakingdefense.com/2021/05...8EVtFk1Hu4LJJJee0AS1QW_8WPXiSaNEejk-TqbAVD0zk



    It's impossible for the EAF to have 8 E-2C Hawkeyes and that huge fleet of F-16s to not have Link-16 even if it was limited in some way.  Once the Rafale showed up, that changed things and helped Egypt build its domestic version.

    If EAF is using it you will read that on all news out there just like Morocco,Jordan and SA .Gamal has no confirmation on this point .

    The point is Link-16 is not the only system out there .At the end it's TDMA TX/RX devices with encrypted channels and GPS link connected to connect to your satellite,may be Egypt got a different one .The ground stations would have same devices to connect to different platforms .May be Egypt got the basic equipments but not the full Link-16 capabilities,Also flying over Sinai is near to the ground stations that could connect different platforms easily .

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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:58 am

    ahmedfire wrote:If EAF is using it you will read that on all news out there just like Morocco,Jordan and SA .Gamal has no confirmation on this point .

    The point is Link-16 is not the only system out there .At the end it's TDMA TX/RX devices with encrypted channels and GPS link connected to connect to your satellite,may be Egypt got a different one .The ground stations would have same devices to connect to different platforms .May be Egypt got the basic equipments but not the full Link-16 capabilities,Also flying over Sinai is near to the ground stations that could connect different platforms easily .

    That's because it's not new and has been around for quite some time since the block 40 upgrades.  One of the big reasons the Rafale was so welcome was because of its compatibility to share info with the F-16s and AWACs.  Not only that, the Mistrals and even FREMMs and especially the 20 Fallaj IIs that are part of the Italian deal (if it goes through) are not only operating in Link-16 but Link-11 as well.

    Also ya Basha you know that the RISC2 was developed from the Rafale's Link-16, right?  It was displayed at EDEX 2018 and I posted a whole post on it in the last page.  So yes, I would say quite a bit of it was written and heard about it.  This will bring in all the platforms into one network.

    Anyway, if you disagree we'll have to agree to disagree because I don't know how much more I can show with links and proof etc. lol.  

    I think the delay on the Katran deal might be more to it than just US CAASTA pressure.  Not sure what's taking so long not only for the helos, but for the defensive armament.  And I don't buy into this "we're not in a hurry" crap.  Adding the proper defensive measures on such huge and vital assets is of the utmost importance if they're going to get the full capabilities out of them and train to the maximum as well.  Not sure what the issue is but maybe they're looking elsewhere on the helos.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Ewmm6hKWEAMkpvU?format=jpg&name=large

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 EwmnAnoW8AYCInV?format=jpg&name=medium
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    Post  ahmedfire Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:25 pm

    I think the delay on the Katran deal might be more to it than just US CAASTA pressure.  Not sure what's taking so long not only for the helos, but for the defensive armament.  And I don't buy into this "we're not in a hurry" crap.  Adding the proper defensive measures on such huge and vital assets is of the utmost importance if they're going to get the full capabilities out of them and train to the maximum as well.  Not sure what the issue is but maybe they're looking elsewhere on the helos.

    Ya basha I would say Egypt could started to not officially showing the new Russian hardware like Su-35 and will act like that for a period of time ,even if the Katran deal has been signed .
    Announcing the purchasing orders and showing it officially will embarrass the US adminstration and give a chance to the lobbies there to put more pressure to apply sanctions on Egypt.

    Also Egypt needs the US support on the Ethiopian dam issue ,no need to risk that just for show .

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    Post  Gomig-21 Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:37 am

    ahmedfire wrote:
    I think the delay on the Katran deal might be more to it than just US CAASTA pressure.  Not sure what's taking so long not only for the helos, but for the defensive armament.  And I don't buy into this "we're not in a hurry" crap.  Adding the proper defensive measures on such huge and vital assets is of the utmost importance if they're going to get the full capabilities out of them and train to the maximum as well.  Not sure what the issue is but maybe they're looking elsewhere on the helos.

    Ya basha I would say Egypt could started to not officially showing the new Russian hardware like Su-35 and will act like that for a period of time ,even if the Katran deal has been signed .
    Announcing the purchasing orders and showing it officially will embarrass the US adminstration and give a chance to the lobbies there to put more pressure to apply sanctions on Egypt.

    Also Egypt needs the US support on the Ethiopian dam issue ,no need to risk that just for show .

    I realize that since they've been doing that for 70 years.  I just have a different outlook about it and it's just my opinion.  Not showing things is a sign of "fragility" for the lack of a better term.  It doesn't matter because the deal has been done since 2015-2017 and 24 of the Su-35SEs are already in Egypt.  Do we think the US doesn't know about them?  So what difference does it make hiding them?  lol, it's the old mentality that never had any benefit walahi just IMO.
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    Post  ahmedfire Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:37 pm

    Do we think the US doesn't know about them?

    I'm not sure if they do care much about the date on the paper. They know for sure but they need something official from Egypt , without the political announcement there is nothing offical , what the US say inside closed rooms will stay just there .

    By not declaring , Egypt is not embarrassing the US adminstration to avoid any internal pressure on it to apply the CAATSA , they will pretend they don't know to avoid unnecessary escalation with Egypt specially when they don't provide an alternative.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:58 am

    Latest pic of EAF Su-35SE

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 E3tTKc_XwAg2VsF?format=jpg&name=medium

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    Post  awmz Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:41 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:If EAF is using it you will read that on all news out there just like Morocco,Jordan and SA .Gamal has no confirmation on this point .

    The point is Link-16 is not the only system out there .At the end it's TDMA TX/RX devices with encrypted channels and GPS link connected to connect to your satellite,may be Egypt got a different one .The ground stations would have same devices to connect to different platforms .May be Egypt got the basic equipments but not the full Link-16 capabilities,Also flying over Sinai is near to the ground stations that could connect different platforms easily .

    That's because it's not new and has been around for quite some time since the block 40 upgrades.  One of the big reasons the Rafale was so welcome was because of its compatibility to share info with the F-16s and AWACs.  Not only that, the Mistrals and even FREMMs and especially the 20 Fallaj IIs that are part of the Italian deal (if it goes through) are not only operating in Link-16 but Link-11 as well.

    Also ya Basha you know that the RISC2 was developed from the Rafale's Link-16, right?  It was displayed at EDEX 2018 and I posted a whole post on it in the last page.  So yes, I would say quite a bit of it was written and heard about it.  This will bring in all the platforms into one network.

    Anyway, if you disagree we'll have to agree to disagree because I don't know how much more I can show with links and proof etc. lol.  

    I think the delay on the Katran deal might be more to it than just US CAASTA pressure.  Not sure what's taking so long not only for the helos, but for the defensive armament.  And I don't buy into this "we're not in a hurry" crap.  Adding the proper defensive measures on such huge and vital assets is of the utmost importance if they're going to get the full capabilities out of them and train to the maximum as well.  Not sure what the issue is but maybe they're looking elsewhere on the helos.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Ewmm6hKWEAMkpvU?format=jpg&name=large

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 EwmnAnoW8AYCInV?format=jpg&name=medium

    No the Katran delay is mainly because the Mistrals were sold to us instead of the Russians therefore they delayed the development because they're not in a hurry now

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    Post  ahmedfire Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:34 pm

    Russian sources confirmed Egypt has received till now five Su-35 and 52 Mig-29M2 .

    https://dfnc.ru/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/NOZ_267_2021_END_blockcover.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2Sb6Ob1WZt5fv8eqs72bK8vC56wa7M4rQBKGj4JSi-Mpp0G2HBu_TxRvk

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Transl10

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    Post  Gomig-21 Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:32 am

    ahmedfire wrote:Russian sources confirmed Egypt has received till now five Su-35 and 52 Mig-29M2 .

    https://dfnc.ru/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/NOZ_267_2021_END_blockcover.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2Sb6Ob1WZt5fv8eqs72bK8vC56wa7M4rQBKGj4JSi-Mpp0G2HBu_TxRvk

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Transl10

    That Sisi is quite the genius.  It seems he also surrounded himself with the best of the best military advisers as this 7-year modernization is unprecedented.  He deserves a lot of credit and not just the military, but the industrial and economic build-up he's responsible for is also something he deserves a lot of credit for.  

    That number of 52 MiG-29Ms is interesting because it was in most sources as 46 original with 2 that crashed due to technical failure of which Russia replaced.  So to end up with 52 means that either the original number of 46 was incorrect or they bought six more at some point.

    The Su-35S delivery is going to be pretty wild because of how hush-hush the EAF wants to be about it due to CAATSA.  Enough that the rumors are flying out there that the deal was cancelled due to extreme US pressure sighting the GERD as something the US wouldn't approve of or something like that.  The jealous MENA Defense boogers claim that story and that's why the additional 30 Rafales at that less than usual price were ordered to make up for that.  I don't buy that story because why would the US pressure CAATSA to benefit Dassault and the French?  They would've forced the F-15 like they originally claimed to replace the Su-35S.  So there are some funny shenanigans going on loool.

    The Beast!  Another thing to give Sisi and Co. credit is how they refused the F-15 and said they thought the Su-35S was superior to the American legend.  That says a lot and probably means that the US made an offer for the F-15 Strike E model without the AIM-120 or AIM-9x.  They must be stupid if they think another batch of US fighters without the latest export BVR AIM series or the new and lethal AIM-9X would suffice and make Egypt happy.  They certainly didn't offer the F-15C since it would be worthless without the AIM-120 at least AND the EAF would insist on the Viper upgrade to all the F-16s.  This had to be a strong message to the US that enough is enough of all the half ass fighter jets.  No more!  We can thank France for opening the door with the MICAs and the Russia following suit with the R-77.  Let's hope the Meteor is not blocked because then that means the French are playing the same game and that would truly be a shame.

    This will be quite something in EAF colors.  I just really hope they don't ruin that beautiful camo with that HORRENDOUS Tayia Misr writing they did on the Rafales.  But I do hope they put a roundel on the fuselage and not just the flag on the tail.  It would really enhance the look of that monster.  They didn't put them on the MiG-29M/35s, so my guess is they probably won't on these either, too bad.  

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 78711_1618513223

    @Gary & @Isos, I really hope Russia supplies the EAF with the R-37M, even under 300km if that is possible.  Having an A2A missile of that capability will change the entire dynamics of power structure in the ME.

    BTW, can anyone tell what variant of R-77 is on this MiG-29m?35?  Enlarge the pic and take a look at the end of the missile, does it have a tapered end like the RVV-AE or do they look like the RVV-SD?

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 DK4P5oYX0AAwgwc

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:07 am

    The black bands on the R-73 indicate dummies, so I would expect the R-77s are dummies too.

    That number of 52 MiG-29Ms is interesting because it was in most sources as 46 original with 2 that crashed due to technical failure of which Russia replaced.  So to end up with 52 means that either the original number of 46 was incorrect or they bought six more at some point.

    According to SPIRI the original order was for 50 aircraft so presuming they replaced two that crashed... that would be 52 sent.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Table10


    BTW, can anyone tell what variant of R-77 is on this MiG-29m?35?  Enlarge the pic and take a look at the end of the missile, does it have a tapered end like the RVV-AE or do they look like the RVV-SD?

    Considering their history with the US, I can't see them buying old model R-77s with these aircraft... 300 divided by 50 means they have 6 R-77s and 6 R-73s for each fighter, so further purchases will likely follow... as shown in the chart above most orders were from 2015, but that new 2019 order for Su-35s will also require more missile orders too.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:04 am

    GarryB wrote:The black bands on the R-73 indicate dummies, so I would expect the R-77s are dummies too.

    That number of 52 MiG-29Ms is interesting because it was in most sources as 46 original with 2 that crashed due to technical failure of which Russia replaced.  So to end up with 52 means that either the original number of 46 was incorrect or they bought six more at some point.

    Those R-77s look like they have the tapered ends on them.  But that Sipri list isn't specific to the exact type of missile and it's also missing a few weapons like the KH-series for the MiG-29/M as well as the weapons for the Ka-52s.  Also missing the Resonance-E radar.  It's incomplete.

    GarryB wrote:According to SPIRI the original order was for 50 aircraft so presuming they replaced two that crashed... that would be 52 sent.

    That math still doesn't add up, bro.  if the original order was 50 aircraft and 2 crashed and were replaced, then there should be 50 not 52.  Something is off lol.

    GarryB wrote:Considering their history with the US, I can't see them buying old model R-77s with these aircraft... 300 divided by 50 means they have 6 R-77s and 6 R-73s for each fighter, so further purchases will likely follow... as shown in the chart above most orders were from 2015, but that new 2019 order for Su-35s will also require more missile orders too.

    I really hope so, ma man.  I know I've been harping on this R-77-1 for a little while but it's just because I'm tired of seeing them not get what they finally deserve.

    Also they better have ordered tons of R-27ERs with the Su-35s.  They should've got them with the MiG-29Ms dammit!  They should work with the Zhuk-ME's range I would think.
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    Post  ahmedfire Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:42 pm

    That math still doesn't add up, bro.  if the original order was 50 aircraft and 2 crashed and were replaced, then there should be 50 not 52.  Something is off lol.

    The report mentioned the delivered number from Russia to Egypt not the number of operational Mig-29M2 in Egypt .

    The below photos were spotted in Egypt , i'm confused but it looks like Su-30 or Su-35 .

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Captur16
    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Captur14
    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Captur15

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    Post  Gomig-21 Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:29 am

    ahmedfire wrote:
    That math still doesn't add up, bro.  if the original order was 50 aircraft and 2 crashed and were replaced, then there should be 50 not 52.  Something is off lol.

    The report mentioned the delivered number from Russia to Egypt not the number of operational Mig-29M2 in Egypt .

    The below photos were spotted in Egypt , i'm confused but it looks like Su-30 or Su-35 .

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Captur16
    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Captur14
    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 18 Captur15

    Yes I was referring to the number ordered only. Nothing to do with operational numbers.

    Hard to tell from those pics but they appear more Su-35 to me.
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    Post  Isos Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:20 am

    Su-34 froom Kmeimim maybe for training with egyptian air force.

    The nose seems to be wide.

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    Post  joker88 Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:52 am

    We want to make sure of the picture
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:35 pm

    I suspect they didn't update their records to reflect the two lost aircraft and the production and delivery of their replacements.

    Regarding the images I would say with the length of the canopy that these are either Su-30s or Su-35s with black paint to make the canopies look too long to be Su-35s.

    It is certainly not Su-34s because it is wider in the nose and yet still has a short transparency with two crew seated side by side....

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    Post  Gomig-21 Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:08 pm

    I would go out on the limb and say they are most certainly 2 of the EAF's Su-35SEs.  We know from most sources that at least 5 have been delivered to Egypt and the rest (however many of the 25 left are built) are still undergoing testing and pilot training etc.  

    But this time of year in Egypt, the sun can play havoc on bad cameras or cheap video cameras/cell phone cameras that it can create ridiculous reflections as well as shadows.  First thing I noticed because of the powerful sun's reflection is how white the entire top surface of the wings and fuselage are.  Then you have the two vertical stabilizers are completely black from the angle of the sun in relation to the position on the aircraft.  So the sun angle and brightness is also probably causing the canopy to shadow behind it a little bit making it look longer.  The black, anti-glare paint goes forward of the canopy all the way to the start of the radome.  Also what might appear to be the canards of the Su-30(?) is most likely the engine intake.

    It's the phenomenon known as "severe heat distortion."

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    Post  Isos Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:32 am

    They clearly have canards and the cockpit seem to be wide so a two place su-34 or su-30.

    I doubt it's from Egypt. It's probably from Syria. Russians fly them in formation like that.

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    Post  joker88 Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:45 am

    After reviewing the video and photos, it turned out that she is not in Egypt and she is 30
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:18 pm

    But this time of year in Egypt, the sun can play havoc on bad cameras or cheap video cameras/cell phone cameras that it can create ridiculous reflections as well as shadows.

    Actually you make a good point... look at how black the area in shadow near the vertical tails are.

    I looked at the black area around the canopy area and assumed it was all the glass canopy, but actually it should also be the fuselage side as well which would make it bigger.

    Therefore I would say it is certainly not an Su-34 because the canopy is much shorter than even the single seat Su-27/35... I would say get a better camera.

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