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    Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Mon May 03, 2021 10:23 pm

    awmz wrote:BREAKING NEWS FROM REUTERS https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/france-sell-30-rafale-fighter-jets-egypt-investigative-website-2021-05-03/?fbclid=IwAR22kKBLduPvtamLyPUnKvEakTD1NOQqQT_w0M9ZtfXTBfpt31o2v3bjg9s
    We still don't know if this will affect the Eurofighter typhoon deal or not

    Probably there is no deal to get the Typhoon ,it will not add anything the EAF can't do .

    The new Rafale deal seems has a good price compared to the deal with Greece ,i hope it's F4 standard with Meteor .
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    Post  awmz Mon May 03, 2021 10:31 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:
    awmz wrote:BREAKING NEWS FROM REUTERS https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/france-sell-30-rafale-fighter-jets-egypt-investigative-website-2021-05-03/?fbclid=IwAR22kKBLduPvtamLyPUnKvEakTD1NOQqQT_w0M9ZtfXTBfpt31o2v3bjg9s
    We still don't know if this will affect the Eurofighter typhoon deal or not

    Probably there is no deal to get the Typhoon ,it will not add anything the EAF can't do .

    The new Rafale deal seems has a good price compared to the deal with Greece ,i hope it's F4 standard with Meteor .

    Maybe the EAF is looking to replace some of its ageing F16s

    99% The deal will include the Meteor BVRAAM
    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue May 04, 2021 2:25 am

    awmz wrote:Btw defense arabic Website is bs don't get anything from them

    That's true but the deal is actually done and will be announced and signed in a ceremony really soon.  I hope it doesn't affect the Typhoon order and they still get them and replace the old Mirage 2000s with them.  Treat them just like they treated the 2Ks almost like a fighter jet air superiority special operations squadrons specifically for certain missions. What they did with the 2Ks and had them really operating on their own commands was a very unique thing, almost like a special operations squadron or two for super special missions and retire the old bugaboos.

    EDIT: What I would like to know is if the original purchase we made for the 24 Rafales that came with an Egyptian option (not a French one just to be clear) is included in this package?
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue May 04, 2021 1:21 pm

    Florence Parly announcing the signing of the contract for 30 Rafales.  I guess the deal is worth something in the neighborhood of 3.9 to 4.5 Euros with a 200 mill Euros allotted for a weapons package which seems really low.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 17 E0h6-ltX0Acz7cU?format=jpg&name=large

    https://twitter.com/florence_parly/status/1389495712413626370


    Last edited by Gomig-21 on Tue May 04, 2021 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue May 04, 2021 2:29 pm

    You mean 200 million ? For 200 000 you have half of a missile.

    It seems to me Egypt is getting ready for a big war and getting ride of US system for it because they know US won't help them. Not getting ride in the sense throwing them at the garbage but having other solution and rely on them at all. But they will keep them.
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue May 04, 2021 11:00 pm

    Isos wrote:You mean 200 million ? For 200 000 you have half of a missile.

    It seems to me Egypt is getting ready for a big war and getting ride of US system for it because they know US won't help them. Not getting ride in the sense throwing them at the garbage but having other solution and rely on them at all. But they will keep them.


    Hahaha, you got me! You're right, 200 million Euros (I edited the post) which doesn't seem like a lot considering the Meteor missile alone is over $2 million a piece and we still don't know if they've approved it for export and integration on all 54 Egyptian Rafales because from what we've been hearing, Israel is having a temper tantrum over that particular weapon because it's so lethal with the best NEZ out there ATM for a BVRAAM.  Hopefully the Su-35S weapons package is a good one and if the RVV-AE is not part of it, I hope we see the R-27ER anyway.

    The US is not blind to what is going on and has been offering a lot of other things that they think might help keep the relationship solid and I don't think there is a cutoff intended by the Egyptian Military or government at all.  It's just that their refusal to provide the Viper upgrade which includes the new AESA radar and AIM-120C-5/7 as well as other stuff like ground collision avoidance oh yeah and the AIM-9X, makes the F-16 pretty much run its course.

    F/A-18s won't be desired because it's obvious the priorities are to upgrade the lethality on the F-16s AND acquire a heavy strike aircraft which the F-15 was denied about a decade ago but then they offered it to replace the Su-35S and it was too late by then since the Su-35 order was already complete and I think 5 aircraft were already built and being tested.  Heck there was a local article in Arabic from a trusted source that claims there are already 22 Su-35S delivered and are in Egypt already.  They're just put away from prying eyes for a little bit.

    And the F-15 was offer was obviously not good enough or else the EAF would've accepted it under the aid program.  But I doubt they offered the F-15EX with the AIM-120 & 9X which makes them just as neutered as the large amount of F-16s we have which must've been the reason why the EAF made a statement that they considered the Su-35S a much better platform than the F-15.  Had the US accepted the request for the F-35 and the BVRAAMs weapons when the EAF requested it, it would be a different story but I'm pretty sure the EAF knew they would deny them which helps them build a case for why they're ordering the Su-35S and associated BVRAAM weapons the US denies Egypt all the time.  Plus they wanted the Su-35S from the start anyway, they just made it look like it was a 2nd choice by asking the Americans for items they know would be refused and use that as a reason.  No brainer.

    Can't wait to see them flying around with the current camo removed off the tail flags and probably the wing roundels and I really hope they don't put that horrid Tahyia Misr in Arabic on them like they did on the Rafales.  Glad the MiG-29M/35 don't have that.  

    Even the short range MICAS on the Rafales are some of the most deadly missiles out there.  Most jet fighters including Russian and French and German and even the US fly with short range missiles more so often than the medium range BVR missiles since at 30kh, that's already BVR lol and so those are probably more useful than the 100+ km range missiles that are easier to dodge and jam and out run decoy than the quick short range ones.

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    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 17 1620127609207-png
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    Post  awmz Tue May 04, 2021 11:48 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:
    Isos wrote:You mean 200 million ? For 200 000 you have half of a missile.

    It seems to me Egypt is getting ready for a big war and getting ride of US system for it because they know US won't help them. Not getting ride in the sense throwing them at the garbage but having other solution and rely on them at all. But they will keep them.


    Hahaha, you got me! You're right, 200 million Euros (I edited the post) which doesn't seem like a lot considering the Meteor missile alone is over $2 million a piece and we still don't know if they've approved it for export and integration on all 54 Egyptian Rafales because from what we've been hearing, Israel is having a temper tantrum over that particular weapon because it's so lethal with the best NEZ out there ATM for a BVRAAM.  Hopefully the Su-35S weapons package is a good one and if the RVV-AE is not part of it, I hope we see the R-27ER anyway.

    The US is not blind to what is going on and has been offering a lot of other things that they think might help keep the relationship solid and I don't think there is a cutoff intended by the Egyptian Military or government at all.  It's just that their refusal to provide the Viper upgrade which includes the new AESA radar and AIM-120C-5/7 as well as other stuff like ground collision avoidance oh yeah and the AIM-9X, makes the F-16 pretty much run its course.

    F/A-18s won't be desired because it's obvious the priorities are to upgrade the lethality on the F-16s AND acquire a heavy strike aircraft which the F-15 was denied about a decade ago but then they offered it to replace the Su-35S and it was too late by then since the Su-35 order was already complete and I think 5 aircraft were already built and being tested.  Heck there was a local article in Arabic from a trusted source that claims there are already 22 Su-35S delivered and are in Egypt already.  They're just put away from prying eyes for a little bit.

    And the F-15 was offer was obviously not good enough or else the EAF would've accepted it under the aid program.  But I doubt they offered the F-15EX with the AIM-120 & 9X which makes them just as neutered as the large amount of F-16s we have which must've been the reason why the EAF made a statement that they considered the Su-35S a much better platform than the F-15.  Had the US accepted the request for the F-35 and the BVRAAMs weapons when the EAF requested it, it would be a different story but I'm pretty sure the EAF knew they would deny them which helps them build a case for why they're ordering the Su-35S and associated BVRAAM weapons the US denies Egypt all the time.  Plus they wanted the Su-35S from the start anyway, they just made it look like it was a 2nd choice by asking the Americans for items they know would be refused and use that as a reason.  No brainer.

    Can't wait to see them flying around with the current camo removed off the tail flags and probably the wing roundels and I really hope they don't put that horrid Tahyia Misr in Arabic on them like they did on the Rafales.  Glad the MiG-29M/35 don't have that.  

    Even the short range MICAS on the Rafales are some of the most deadly missiles out there.  Most jet fighters including Russian and French and German and even the US fly with short range missiles more so often than the medium range BVR missiles since at 30kh, that's already BVR lol and so those are probably more useful than the 100+ km range missiles that are easier to dodge and jam and out run decoy than the quick short range ones.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 17 E0jHhgCXsAMHlxg?format=jpg&name=900x900

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    Well if the Meteor isn't coming which i doubt you forgot about the new Mica NG with a range of over 110Km

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    Post  Gomig-21 Wed May 05, 2021 1:09 am

    awmz wrote:
    Well if the Meteor isn't coming which i doubt you forgot about the new Mica NG with a range of over 110Km

    Oh sure, I didn't forget about the MICA NG but let's face it, look how long it has taken the Meteor to be exported and only to Sweden at the moment for their Gripens and the French are currently integrating theirs because there is quite a bit of work that needs to be done to the aircraft in order to fire the Meteor.  So I don't expect the MICA NG to be available for export for a long time and even at that, the advanced missile will be on par with the capabilities of the Meteor with the exception of the range, maybe, and so I expect the same results with that missile as the Meteor.  It will most likely be denied because of our Jewish cousins taking temper tantrums.  

    Our only way to make the best use is to go ahead with the Typhoon order and have the Italians approve the Meteor with the Typhoons or else we don't need them and take them out of the package.  That might make the Italians pull some strings and if they can provide them, then maybe France will relax its stance and work with us.  In the meantime, use the MICA IR & ER as they are terrific BVR missiles only on the short range end and work extensively with the Russians on the RVV-AE as well as the R-27ER.

    The Russians are the ones who probably don't care as much but I doubt they'll supply us with the r-37.  It's one of those weapons even at 240 km range that will make them hesitant to supply it and give the EAF a huge edge.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed May 05, 2021 10:53 am

    Sweeden is part of the Meteor program so it wasn't exported to them.

    Russians will deliver r-37 anyday you want. It's been prpposed for export since years ago.

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    Post  awmz Wed May 05, 2021 12:48 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:
    awmz wrote:
    Well if the Meteor isn't coming which i doubt you forgot about the new Mica NG with a range of over 110Km

    Oh sure, I didn't forget about the MICA NG but let's face it, look how long it has taken the Meteor to be exported and only to Sweden at the moment for their Gripens and the French are currently integrating theirs because there is quite a bit of work that needs to be done to the aircraft in order to fire the Meteor.  So I don't expect the MICA NG to be available for export for a long time and even at that, the advanced missile will be on par with the capabilities of the Meteor with the exception of the range, maybe, and so I expect the same results with that missile as the Meteor.  It will most likely be denied because of our Jewish cousins taking temper tantrums.  

    Our only way to make the best use is to go ahead with the Typhoon order and have the Italians approve the Meteor with the Typhoons or else we don't need them and take them out of the package.  That might make the Italians pull some strings and if they can provide them, then maybe France will relax its stance and work with us.  In the meantime, use the MICA IR & ER as they are terrific BVR missiles only on the short range end and work extensively with the Russians on the RVV-AE as well as the R-27ER.

    The Russians are the ones who probably don't care as much but I doubt they'll supply us with the r-37.  It's one of those weapons even at 240 km range that will make them hesitant to supply it and give the EAF a huge edge.
    Thats why i mentioned the MICA NG because its fully French like the Storm Shadow with no foreign components so the US can't impose its bs laws but i truly believe that the Meteor issue has been solved also the R-37 is available for export no problems with that

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    Post  ahmedfire Wed May 05, 2021 2:52 pm

    According to the below source Egypt has received 100 SCALP missile .

    Over 100 European missiles sold to Egypt

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    Post  Gomig-21 Wed May 05, 2021 5:40 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:According to the below source Egypt has received 100 SCALP missile .

    Over 100 European missiles sold to Egypt

    That's more like it than the lousy 50 originally described.  Much better to have "more than 100" of those terrific cruise missiles.

    Isos wrote:Sweeden is part of the Meteor program so it wasn't exported to them.

    Russians will deliver r-37 anyday you want. It's been prpposed for export since years ago.

    Semantics at this point by using the word "export" for Sweden.  Yes they are part of the program but the main point is really that they are the only ones actively using them on their Gripens even before the French which if I/m not mistaken have the larger control of MBDA and I would've thought they would be the first to actively used them on their Rafales.  But we have seen a few pics of them carrying the missiles but I think it was just for show.  Integrating them and adding the appropriate software is apparently mostly an avionics upgrade but is quite expensive.

    As far as weapons such as the r-37 being available for export, I think there is a big difference when it comes to Egypt a lot of you fellas know.  Israel lobbies very strongly towards suppliers to prevent many of these potent missiles that could harm them significantly should there be a change in the peace process and war begins.  That's what I am referring to as far as if Russia would not supply them for Israel's sake.

    awmz wrote:Thats why i mentioned the MICA NG because its fully French like the Storm Shadow with no foreign components so the US can't impose its bs laws but i truly believe that the Meteor issue has been solved also the R-37 is available for export no problems with that

    I understand.  I just have a problem with the fact that if something is available for export doesn't mean anyone can get it even if they can afford it and most Egyptians know that we've probably been the #1 nation that certain types of weapons have been denied to straight out because of the Israelis and whatever lobbying they do.  That's what I'm referring to.

    If @Ahmedfire 's post is accurate and there are already over 100 SCALPS are in Egypt, then that is a huge game changer.  I hope it's true. The Meteor is hard to tell as the only semi credible source that any were delivered to Egypt is this:

    "In May 2015, Qatar ordered 160 Meteor missiles to equip the Dassault Rafales of the Qatar Emiri Air Force.[75] Greek Air Force is expected to equip its Rafale fighters with Meteor missiles.[76] Egypt also bought a large batch of those missiles in the framework of the Rafale."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)#cite_note-sdarabia.com-14

    What is a large batch? They give the numbers sold to India, Qatar, Sweden and any of the other Typhoon operators who might be interested in them but when it comes to Egypt, the info is very vague only because there is nothing concrete like from a defense minister's statement or a much more trustworthy source probably my guess is that they're still contemplating on if they should sell such the best A2A missile out there to Egypt and reduce Israel's advantage instantaneously by a huge margin. I hope it's true and they're just keeping it under wraps.

    In the meantime, a new pic of the magnificent future Egyptian Su-35SE taking off hopefully for delivery.  @LMFS , check out the very low setting on the flaps.  I believe there is 3 settings and this being the first.  With such a wide body, it's no wonder that once the H-stabs flap and push the nose up, the rest is mostly wing and body creating lift.

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    Post  Isos Wed May 05, 2021 6:32 pm

    Semantics at this point by using the word "export" for Sweden.  Yes they are part of the program but the main point is really that they are the only ones actively using them on their Gripens even before the French which if I/m not mistaken have the larger control of MBDA and I would've thought they would be the first to actively used them on their Rafales.  But we have seen a few pics of them carrying the missiles but I think it was just for show.  Integrating them and adding the appropriate software is apparently mostly an avionics upgrade but is quite expensive.

    As far as weapons such as the r-37 being available for export, I think there is a big difference when it comes to Egypt a lot of you fellas know.  Israel lobbies very strongly towards suppliers to prevent many of these potent missiles that could harm them significantly should there be a change in the peace process and war begins.  That's what I am referring to as far as if Russia would not supply them for Israel's sake.

    French rafale have the issue of having just one way datalink while typhoon and gripen have two way datalink with the missile.

    It took more time for integration on Rafale which is usable only on last standards.

    I don't think they care about Israel for selling r-37. They already sold S-300 to Egypt. Mig-29M isn't really tge best plateform and I'm not sure it can use it. Only plane they have that can carry it is su-35 and only started to be delivered so the missile will very likely come in the package.

    Contrary to Indians, egyptians are choosing the planes but also the good weapons. They are aware of the difference btw su-35/r-77 and su-35/RVVSD/R-37/kh-59...

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    Post  Gomig-21 Thu May 06, 2021 3:44 am

    Isos wrote:
    Semantics at this point by using the word "export" for Sweden.  Yes they are part of the program but the main point is really that they are the only ones actively using them on their Gripens even before the French which if I/m not mistaken have the larger control of MBDA and I would've thought they would be the first to actively used them on their Rafales.  But we have seen a few pics of them carrying the missiles but I think it was just for show.  Integrating them and adding the appropriate software is apparently mostly an avionics upgrade but is quite expensive.

    As far as weapons such as the r-37 being available for export, I think there is a big difference when it comes to Egypt a lot of you fellas know.  Israel lobbies very strongly towards suppliers to prevent many of these potent missiles that could harm them significantly should there be a change in the peace process and war begins.  That's what I am referring to as far as if Russia would not supply them for Israel's sake.

    French rafale have the issue of having just one way datalink while typhoon and gripen have two way datalink with the missile.

    It took more time for integration on Rafale which is usable only on last standards.

    I don't think they care about Israel for selling r-37. They already sold S-300 to Egypt. Mig-29M isn't really tge best plateform and I'm not sure it can use it. Only plane they have that can carry it is su-35 and only started to be delivered so the missile will very likely come in the package.

    Contrary to Indians, egyptians are choosing the planes but also the good weapons. They are aware of the difference btw su-35/r-77 and su-35/RVVSD/R-37/kh-59...

    The current Rafales are the F3R standard and the new batch of 30 will be the F4 standard both of which as far as I know are capable of firing the Meteor and not only possess two-way data links but have Link 16 to connect with all the F-16s and E-2C Hawkeyes.  That is why the missile was ordered in the original order of 24 missiles.  The EAF is really keen on getting the Meteor.  This was already done by Dassault and tested before the Egyptian Rafales were assembled.

    Teams from the French Ministry of Defence, Dassault Aviation and MBDA carried out the first guided firing of the long-range Meteor missile against an air target from a Rafale combat aircraft. The firing, from a Rafale prepared at the DGA’s Cazaux Flight Test Centre (near Bordeaux, S.W. France), proceeded successfully within the secured zone of the DGA Essais de Missiles (previously Centre d’Essais des Landes) in Biscarosse (also near Bordeaux).

    Following on from earlier missile separation trials carried out in 2013 and 2014, this firing represents an important milestone in the integration of Meteor onto the Rafale in line with the development of the aircraft in its next F3-R standard.


    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 17 PR_2015-04-30-300x169

    https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-releases/successful-first-guided-firing-of-meteor-from-rafale/

     The only source that claims that beside Arab defense on the missiles is Wikipedia since India ordered them, Qatar which bought the Rafales shortly after Egypt also ordered the missiles and Egypt ordered a large batch.  The only difference between the F3R and F4 is in the avionics and is actually a very expensive upgrade.

    Believe me, we are so used to disappointments and that is why I am cautious about these things when I see it's available for export never means Egypt is a viable candidate.  Trust me, Isos, we've had our hearts torn apart and stomped on MANY times and that's why we're (or at least I am pessimistic) that once Israel knows that not only will we have 30 Su-35s, but the r-37 to wipe out their AWACs even if we have a peace treaty, it never seems to matter to them and they'll do whatever it takes to step on anything that will give us the slightest advantage.

    Read the section where Israel freaks out about Egypt having the Meteor because there were instances where it lost contact with the missile which proves how dangerous it is.

    EGYPT WANTS MORE METEOR AND SCALP MISSILES FOR ITS RAFALES

    https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2021/05/02/egypt-wants-more-meteor-and-scalp-missiles-for-its-rafale/

    Hey, I'm happy with the way they're going about this incredible pace of modernization, even with the Navy.  These are my favorite Frigates so far, the Italian Berghaminni FREMMs, two already delivered to the EN and are docked in Alexandria.  A pair of beauties.


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    Post  Isos Thu May 06, 2021 11:43 am

    Your jets don't have link 16.

    If your rafales and f-16 and awacs are connected then either you have your own datalink or you bought one and integrated in all of tge jets.

    But since your f-16 are old I doubt they have any modern datalink that Rafale uses.

    Mig-35/su-35 are certainly not connected with them.

    It's one of bad point of having multiple different jets from different buyers. Adding Typhoon will make it even worse.


    Israeli integrate their own stuff. IMO egypt will also start developing its own systems.

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    Post  awmz Thu May 06, 2021 1:33 pm

    The good news keep on coming!

    Egypt is very close to reach an agreement with France to finalize a deal for the sale of two Airbus A330 MRTT aerial refueling planes ,Long range radars and a spy satellite, as per La Tribune French newspaper

    Source: https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/industrie/aeronautique-defense/egypte-un-contrat-rafale-peut-cacher-d-autres-commandes-satellite-espion-mrtt-884070.html?fbclid=IwAR0PcUTjibkekdD3SS5iO3YUoGpHP4qCPrh9l8IcGH39XC9_HD49ESmD0gk


    Last edited by awmz on Thu May 06, 2021 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  awmz Thu May 06, 2021 1:34 pm

    Isos wrote:Your jets don't have link 16.

    If your rafales and f-16 and awacs are connected then either you have your own datalink or you bought one and integrated in all of tge jets.

    But since your f-16 are old I doubt they have any modern datalink that Rafale uses.

    Mig-35/su-35 are certainly not connected with them.

    It's one of bad point of having multiple different jets from different buyers. Adding Typhoon will make it even worse.


    Israeli integrate their own stuff. IMO egypt will also start developing its own systems.
    And to answer your quesiton https://www.c4isrnet.com/battlefield-tech/c2-comms/2020/10/28/how-is-the-egyptian-air-force-able-to-operate-its-fleet-of-mixed-origin/
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    Post  Gomig-21 Thu May 06, 2021 2:10 pm

    awmz wrote:The good news keep on coming!

    Egypt is very close to reach an agreement with France to finalize a deal for the sale of two Airbus A330 MRTT aerial refueling planes ,Long range radars and a spy satellite, as per La Tribune French newspaper

    Source: https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/industrie/aeronautique-defense/egypte-un-contrat-rafale-peut-cacher-d-autres-commandes-satellite-espion-mrtt-884070.html?fbclid=IwAR0PcUTjibkekdD3SS5iO3YUoGpHP4qCPrh9l8IcGH39XC9_HD49ESmD0gk

    And 4 French GM 400 early warning radars. And the two tankers can only mean one thing if you really think about it.


    Last edited by Gomig-21 on Thu May 06, 2021 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Gomig-21 Thu May 06, 2021 2:15 pm

    Isos wrote:Your jets don't have link 16.

    If your rafales and f-16 and awacs are connected then either you have your own datalink or you bought one and integrated in all of tge jets.

    But since your f-16 are old I doubt they have any modern datalink that Rafale uses.

    Mig-35/su-35 are certainly not connected with them.

    It's one of bad point of having multiple different jets from different buyers. Adding Typhoon will make it even worse.


    Israeli integrate their own stuff. IMO egypt will also start developing its own systems.

    You're behind on a lot of information.  All the active F-16s were upgraded to Block 40 shortly after the last bath of 40 I think of block 40 F-16s were ordered and delivered (I believe those were event the ones assembled in Turkey if my memory serves me) and all are active with link 16 to connect to the 8 E-2C AWACs and other things especially with the Block 52s coming on their way and half of them were going to a new training squadron similar to the Aggressors. Those are the F-16 blck 52 you see without any orange markings. Those pilots are guys with over 2000 hours etc. and they train dogfighting and all sorts of other things.

    Now that they introduced the Rafale and it also has link 16, they wanted to connect all the aircraft including the Russian ones and so they developed that system in that link in the above post after researching how the RBE2 AESA radar works etc.
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    Post  Isos Thu May 06, 2021 8:43 pm

    Link 16 is available only to NATO. It's not for export.

    Your f-16 are connected to your awacs with US made datalink that has nothing to do with link 16.

    Rafales are french build and unless US integrated their datalink inside, it can't connect to the f-16.
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    Post  awmz Thu May 06, 2021 10:53 pm

    Isos wrote:Link 16 is available only to NATO. It's not for export.

    Your f-16 are connected to your awacs with US made datalink that has nothing to do with link 16.

    Rafales are french build and unless US integrated their datalink inside, it can't connect to the f-16.

    Everyone pay attention we have a genius here
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    Post  Gomig-21 Fri May 07, 2021 12:44 am

    Isos wrote:Link 16 is available only to NATO. It's not for export.

    Really?  And who is the LARGEST and most influential member of NATO?  Forget about what the orange baboon did, Biden will get the US right back in and they pay and fly the most missions out of all the contributors.  So NATO is actually a US creation post WWII and has a huge influence on that organization that hung in there in the last four years but I bet they're dancing all night to the moon that the US is coming back strong.

    Now, apart from that, how do you know anything about the EAF?  Do you follow them on a regular basis?  Do you know that they can actually perform almost every single overhaul task to all of their F-16s in Egypt in a special building several industrial areas designed and built by the Egypt to work on all the F-16s without any American help, or minimal because they're very nosy and in all the clauses they make us sign, they need to be informed of every single thing we do to them.  Guaranteed you didn't know that.

    Did you know that for 38 years, Egypt and the US performed Bright Star Exercise where a large part of that was JTAS combat mission between US jets (F-16, F-15 and F/A-18)?  My guess is you probably knew that.

    Now how is that data shared between the 3 types of US jets with US AWACs and Egyptian AWACs AND the soldiers on the ground requesting air support through JTAS comms?  Do you think they draw pictures and email them on their own computers?  

    Another question for you, without looking it up, you said our F-16s are old (I'm sorry to say this to you, but that is TOTALLY incorrect.  Yes, some of them are pretty old especially the Block 15 which were completely retired and the Block 32, block 40 were all upgraded by the US in the past 5 years to Block 40 Standard minus the new Block 52+ for a total of 195 F-16. These are NEW aircraft so you are wrong there, sorry.  

    This was one of the reason the brass decided on the very expensive Rafale because not only its AESA RBE2 radar performs amazing functions, but it also has Link-16 with immediately gave it commonality with not only the entire fleet of F-16s, but with the E-2C Hawkeyes to share data through Link-16 in seconds.  This was VERY important for the EAF to have that consideration.  I don't think you knew a lot of this information so I am happy to educate you.  
    The Bright Star exercises were very heavy duty especially the last one and linkage was essential and NO, they didn't invent some phantom Link for us lol that is just pure fantasy.

    There are many orders that Egypt put in for its F-16 through the FAS that didn't involve new aircraft or whatever and the FLIR and LITENING pods and especially the Sniper XR with one or two aircraft can carry will provide the info to all the other aircraft in the formation through Link-16 and data sharing.  I bet you didn't know that.
    The last JTAS training exercise in 2017/18 was heavily done using only ground radio control to the F-16s and targets were illuminated by ground SOF and executed to perfection.

    Now, the Link-16 will be sided until there are more exercises with NATO aircraft (which they made a recent deal for that to curb the illegal migration to Europe from Libya & Syria and African countries) it is by no meant a membership but a partnership that was signed last year (guaranteed you didn't know that) and any future US exercises since it is a very important component that speeds up data sharing and executing bombing missions in a timely fashion that you can't wait for Sarah to draw a picture and email it to the pilot and put an X where they want bombs dropped lol, they use Link-16.

    Isos wrote:Your f-16 are connected to your awacs with US made datalink that has nothing to do with link 16.


    ABSOLUTELY it does!!!  Look, I won't tell you any more details because I will have to give up too much info which I would rather not but either way, Link-16 will be a secondary form of data linkage because we have created a local data linkage after being allowed to use the RBE2 AESA radar with France's permission since we didn't want to touch the ones in the F-16 and get in trouble any more than we already are except that now we have an immense system that does not just involve the F-16s and Rafales, but we need to make our SUPER Russian aircraft are a MAJOR part of this entire family as well as the Ka-52 attack helos and the ENTIRE navy (all the huge amount of soldiers and tanks and helos on board our Mistrals need instant data linkage and they will have that) and every single platform to have this newly developed domestic super fast data sharing “However, data is being shared between the different-origin aircraft through the command-and-control centers that are equipped with dedicated systems capable of linking the various radars (Protivnik GE and Resonace=E), aircraft, sensors, reconnaissance and electronic warfare systems, and integrating all the information and data they receive into a unified system named RISC2.

    Now, this new advanced domestic data linkage that brings our ever loving Russian birds into an entire family that operates as one also includes especially ground control, and ESPESIALLY the tremendous SAM network (I bet it would be very difficult to find such an immense and modernly effective 24/7/365 SAM alert system anywhere else) that has been set up to date to prevent IFF issues and it is pretty much completed and tested once all the Su-35s are in the EAF and have had the hard and software installed.  Here's the link in case you're interested but please, don't just shoot out of your mind and think that just because the US didn't supply us with the AIM-120 and 9X and that you. were obviously unaware of all the upgrades including new radars with spares until you know more of the exact history and details.  BTW, a big reason the rejoicing of the new 30 Rafales is that because they also come with Link-16 that not will only enhance the current F-16 fleet but also alleviate the over-stretched burden on the F-16 fleet considerably.

    The link on the newly domesticated data link to include the MiG-20m/35 & Su-35SE and hopefully the Su-57 which we would like to see it in the desert camo should be revolutionary.

    “However, data is being shared between the different-origin aircraft through the command-and-control centers that are equipped with dedicated systems capable of linking the various radar, aircraft, sensors, reconnaissance and electronic warfare systems, and integrating all the information and data they receive into a unified system named RISC2.”

    “This system enables the dynamic exchange of integrated data with various command-and-control centers, with the next generation of cyber protection systems and firewalls ... as well as the Egyptian surface-to-air missile command center to analyze and assess the risks and air threats, and [determine] the type of air defense systems needed to deal with these threats,” he added.


    To overcome delays in data sharing, the Air Force looked to the Rafale "to link aircraft of different origins during the flight, since it is equipped not only with Link 16 data links but also with other solutions for non-NATO countries to operate in integrated operational [environments] with all platforms and with friendly combat assets, and airborne command and control, which allows it to operate in harmony with modern Russian fighters operating for the Egyptian Air Force,” al-Kenany explained. cheers

    As I mentioned before, the US with CAATSA would NEVER allow Egyptian engineers to retrieve and study the link 16 in the F-16 and use it to integrate Russian aircraft and so they had to use the French one in the Rafale which is quite advanced to help ToT a powerful domestic system that didn't include just fighter jets


    https://www.c4isrnet.com/battlefield-tech/c2-comms/2020/10/28/how-is-the-egyptian-air-force-able-to-operate-its-fleet-of-mixed-origin/#.X5pv5IrtHlQ.twitter


    Isos wrote:Rafales are french build and unless US integrated their datalink inside, it can't connect to the f-16.

    Not sure where you got that info from.  You realize that the French L'Armee Marine has operated off of several US aircraft carriers and your telling me it's a different Link-16 data sharing intimation?

    Look, I enjoy our interaction and I will leave you with the final post and move on as we will have to agree to disagree on this matter and let's take a better look at the SPY satellites the French have supply along with the pair of Airbus A330 MRTT Air refueling tankers as well as the digital AESA Early warning radar when you add it to the Russian SAM systems already in place, it's really extraordinary what this super fast modernization being done with equipment we really haven't know much about in the past and that could only mean one thing, the Egyptian delegates have really done their research well as well as the negotiators to pitch these specific systems that are not too known but once you learn about them, they are VERY potent and fit perfectly with our needs.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 17 1620302961972-png

    And I think it's pretty evident what these two first combat missions will entail as they have the drogue and chute for all the fighters with inflight refueling probes like most the Russians as well as a boom refueler for the F-16s.  That increases their range tremendously as we know buddy-buddy refueling is better than nothing, but quite limited in a large sense compared to these bad Larries.  Ethiopia, get ready because the bombing can be done sooner than when the Su-35's are inducted to active use.  Those would be a great bonus to flatten the living daylights out of the entire infrastructure and really ruin that poor country which I would hate to see.

    It's about time.  We should've had these ten years ago and thank goodness for the lesser reliance on the US. It's about time they drop that BS about Israeli Jets for crying out loud. If the USE, Saudi Arabia and Jordan and others who operate the AIM-120 and ballistic missiles wanted to flatten tiny biatcha Israel it would be a 1 day war.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0t8W4QWYAAlQdv?format=jpg&name=small

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    Spy satellite.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 17 E0s0pxqXIAAzyaK?format=jpg&name=medium

    Sorry for the long post, buddy.
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    Post  Gomig-21 Fri May 07, 2021 1:27 am

    awmz wrote:
    Isos wrote:Link 16 is available only to NATO. It's not for export.

    Your f-16 are connected to your awacs with US made datalink that has nothing to do with link 16.

    Rafales are french build and unless US integrated their datalink inside, it can't connect to the f-16.

    Everyone pay attention we have a genius here

    Isos is a good and one of the very few here on the EAF thread so we need to engage him as politely as possible and post the things he probably wasn't aware of. I woke up this morning to read about the tankers and I almost fell out of my chair lol. We've been asking for those for a long time just for the F-16 but of course, deny deny deny man even though I live in the US, I say screw it for the way it shamelessly treats Egypt with advanced weapons regardless if they are free, not something we asked for but they offered so that they can hold the advantage. Well, thankfully if we can continue to afford all this, things will and have rapidly changed away from them. Watch them offer something very significant to lure us back because they are losing us.

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    Post  Isos Fri May 07, 2021 1:43 am

    Link 16 is the datalink used only by nato forces. You don't have it.

    I don't know about your own datalink, local made or US made, but you don't have link 16.

    Neither your Rafales nor your f-16 have it. Even close allies like Israel or Japan don't have it.

    They may keep the same equipement but softwares are changed. So your not part of link 16 but you can integrate your western stuff togather. You may have been ble to interact with US planes because US have total control of link 16.

    That's like they gave you the ps5 that they use to play online within nato but changed the software so that you can't play with them but only with other egyptians. That's what you have to understand.

    Link 16 is the backbone of NATO forces, and a weak one. Now if they give it to countries like Egypt, china and russia will hav3 total access.
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    Post  awmz Fri May 07, 2021 11:42 am

    Isos wrote:Link 16 is the datalink used only by nato forces. You don't have it.

    I don't know about your own datalink, local made or US made, but you don't have link 16.

    Neither your Rafales nor your f-16 have it. Even close allies like Israel or Japan don't have it.

    They may keep the same equipement but softwares are changed. So your not part of link 16 but you can integrate your western stuff togather. You may have been ble to interact with US planes because US have total control of link 16.

    That's like they gave you the ps5 that they use to play online within nato but changed the software so that you can't play with them but only with other egyptians. That's what you have to understand.

    Link 16 is the backbone of NATO forces, and a weak one. Now if they give it to countries like Egypt, china and russia will hav3 total access.
    You just answered yourself

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