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    Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:51 pm

    TMA1 wrote:The skynight system looks really impressive (and expensive!!). the large missile pods combined with quick moving high caliber AA cannons is the way short range air defense is going.

    And agreed a lot of people here in America are waking up to the slitheriness of our foreign policy and how long it has been going on. CAATSA is flat out coercive. And what we have been doing in Africa and the mid east is nuts. I think a lot of us who were younger woke up with the so-called "arab spring" and the color revolutions across eastern Europe and elsewhere.

    I don't think America exists anymore. Our leaders get their policies overseas, have their money overseas, and see the future of America as just some economic zone in a larger superstate. It's time to vote these fuckers out.

    Certainly didn't mean to sound ungrateful. After all, the US has provided a lot of F-16s only no AIM 120 but the AIM-7 Sparrow for BVR capabilities and they claimed it was because we wouldn't sign the CISMOA pact for non transfer of advanced & sensitive technology or even show any equipment in detail to Russians or Chinese etc. Then sometime when Hillary was Secretary of State I think she claimed that somehow intel found out that Egyptians were showing off an F-16 to a Chinese delegation. True? Not sure. But Jordan is closer to Israel and their Vipers have the AIM-120. The US also provided Egypt with over 1100 M1A1 tank kits that I believe half of them are sitting in warehouses because we have more M-60A3 and now we just signed a contract with Russia to build 500 T-90S' lol. I think there is a deal going on that some of these are being assembled for export, the latest US kits not the T-90s.

    It's all about Israel and the notion that Egypt is just another military dictatorship that has nothing on its mind except to attack Israel (or invade Sudan) which is simply crazy. Israel attacked and invaded Sinai twice, fought a brutal war of attrition for 3 years and the only time Egypt ever attacked was crossing the canal and holding on to 15 kilometers, of occupied Egyptian land. lol crazy stuff.

    Plus lately, the American ambassador to Egypt was on Egyptian TV and said that an entire of US-made anti-ballistic and anti-aircraft missile system was installed all around Cairo and some other areas. Many presume it's the PAC-3 and we just bought 4 batteries of S-300VM lol. So the US has done a lot for free or for the condition of non-belligerence towards Israel. But after all these decades of peace and economic cooperation etc., isn't it time to think differently?
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    awmz

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    Post  awmz Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:31 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:
    TMA1 wrote:The skynight system looks really impressive (and expensive!!). the large missile pods combined with quick moving high caliber AA cannons is the way short range air defense is going.

    And agreed a lot of people here in America are waking up to the slitheriness of our foreign policy and how long it has been going on. CAATSA is flat out coercive. And what we have been doing in Africa and the mid east is nuts. I think a lot of us who were younger woke up with the so-called "arab spring" and the color revolutions across eastern Europe and elsewhere.

    I don't think America exists anymore. Our leaders get their policies overseas, have their money overseas, and see the future of America as just some economic zone in a larger superstate. It's time to vote these fuckers out.

    Certainly didn't mean to sound ungrateful.  After all, the US has provided a lot of F-16s only no AIM 120 but the AIM-7 Sparrow for BVR capabilities and they claimed it was because we wouldn't sign the CISMOA pact for non transfer of advanced & sensitive technology or even show any equipment in detail to Russians or Chinese etc.  Then sometime when Hillary was Secretary of State I think she claimed that somehow intel found out that Egyptians were showing off an F-16 to a Chinese delegation.  True?  Not sure.  But Jordan is closer to Israel and their Vipers have the AIM-120.  The US also provided Egypt with over 1100 M1A1 tank kits that I believe half of them are sitting in warehouses because we have more M-60A3 and now we just signed a contract with Russia to build 500 T-90S' lol.  I think there is a deal going on that some of these are being assembled for export, the latest US kits not the T-90s.

    It's all about Israel and the notion that Egypt is just another military dictatorship that has nothing on its mind except to attack Israel (or invade Sudan) which is simply crazy.  Israel attacked and invaded Sinai twice, fought a brutal war of attrition for 3 years and the only time Egypt ever attacked was crossing the canal and holding on to 15 kilometers, of occupied Egyptian land.  lol  crazy stuff.  

    Plus lately, the American ambassador to Egypt was on Egyptian TV and said that an entire of US-made anti-ballistic and anti-aircraft missile system was installed all around Cairo and some other areas.  Many presume it's the PAC-3 and we just bought 4 batteries of S-300VM lol.  So the US has done a lot for free or for the condition of non-belligerence towards Israel.  But after all these decades of peace and economic cooperation etc., isn't it time to think differently?

    What?? when did the US ambassador say that any sources?
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    Post  Gomig-21 Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:52 pm

    awmz wrote:
    Gomig-21 wrote:
    TMA1 wrote:The skynight system looks really impressive (and expensive!!). the large missile pods combined with quick moving high caliber AA cannons is the way short range air defense is going.

    And agreed a lot of people here in America are waking up to the slitheriness of our foreign policy and how long it has been going on. CAATSA is flat out coercive. And what we have been doing in Africa and the mid east is nuts. I think a lot of us who were younger woke up with the so-called "arab spring" and the color revolutions across eastern Europe and elsewhere.

    I don't think America exists anymore. Our leaders get their policies overseas, have their money overseas, and see the future of America as just some economic zone in a larger superstate. It's time to vote these fuckers out.

    Certainly didn't mean to sound ungrateful.  After all, the US has provided a lot of F-16s only no AIM 120 but the AIM-7 Sparrow for BVR capabilities and they claimed it was because we wouldn't sign the CISMOA pact for non transfer of advanced & sensitive technology or even show any equipment in detail to Russians or Chinese etc.  Then sometime when Hillary was Secretary of State I think she claimed that somehow intel found out that Egyptians were showing off an F-16 to a Chinese delegation.  True?  Not sure.  But Jordan is closer to Israel and their Vipers have the AIM-120.  The US also provided Egypt with over 1100 M1A1 tank kits that I believe half of them are sitting in warehouses because we have more M-60A3 and now we just signed a contract with Russia to build 500 T-90S' lol.  I think there is a deal going on that some of these are being assembled for export, the latest US kits not the T-90s.

    It's all about Israel and the notion that Egypt is just another military dictatorship that has nothing on its mind except to attack Israel (or invade Sudan) which is simply crazy.  Israel attacked and invaded Sinai twice, fought a brutal war of attrition for 3 years and the only time Egypt ever attacked was crossing the canal and holding on to 15 kilometers, of occupied Egyptian land.  lol  crazy stuff.  

    Plus lately, the American ambassador to Egypt was on Egyptian TV and said that an entire of US-made anti-ballistic and anti-aircraft missile system was installed all around Cairo and some other areas.  Many presume it's the PAC-3 and we just bought 4 batteries of S-300VM lol.  So the US has done a lot for free or for the condition of non-belligerence towards Israel.  But after all these decades of peace and economic cooperation etc., isn't it time to think differently?

    What?? when did the US ambassador say that any sources?

    Yes there's a YouTube video out there holy shmoly bamablody if I can find it but I WILL just for you!!! Just gimme some time, friend.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:08 am

    I don't think America exists anymore. Our leaders get their policies overseas, have their money overseas, and see the future of America as just some economic zone in a larger superstate. It's time to vote these fuckers out.

    Don't mean to offend but you can't vote them out... there is only A and B and they are heads or tails... two sides of the same coin that both pander to the rich powerful people who donated to their campaign funds and got them into power.

    In 2021 an American citizen has more choice of gender they can identify than they have political parties to vote for... it is pretty clear what the west thinks is important...

    Looking at the performance of American air defence systems in Saudi Arabia against drones and cruise missiles... I would not turn off those S-300Vs.

    They are probably a quarter the price of Patriots and 1 eighth the price of THAAD, but their tracked vehicle base does make them a little more expensive to operate... it is because they are a Russian Army system and are supposed to operate with mobile armoured forces...

    They are very capable systems though.
    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:56 pm

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    Post  Gomig-21 Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:10 pm

    awmz wrote:What?? when did the US ambassador say that any sources?

    Here you go.  Man of my word and with a little help from a great member on another forum who found it for me to post it here just for you!  You need to watch the whole video and listen to what he says about how the US helped install an entire self defense missile system around Cairo. Believe me, I was just as surprised as you were.

    https://eg.usembassy.gov/slide/video/

    And here's the YouTube video of the same interview.

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    Post  ahmedfire Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:40 am

    If they care about Cairo they would supply the complete F-16 package just like what they did with Israel .

    There is no a complete US system that protects Cairo , may be he is talking about some HAWKs .Even Raytheon doesn't put Egypt among the Patriot operators .It's so critical to depend on US AD system to protect the capital probably against Israel , the most closed ally to the US of all the time.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:19 am

    ahmedfire wrote:If they care about Cairo they would supply the complete F-16 package just like what they did with Israel .

    There is no a complete US system that protects Cairo , may be he is talking about some HAWKs .Even Raytheon doesn't put Egypt among the Patriot operators .It's so critical to depend on US AD system to protect the capital probably against Israel , the most closed ally to the US of all the time.


    I think you're right and in the heat of war, I don't think the US has any control over the EAF vipers as we saw the lock on the Israeli F-15 which pissed off their air force chief who wanted some huge meeting bew\teen the two countries and find out why the EAF did that and I think the rest of the Israeli generals told him to zip it up and shut up we don't need to create problems with Egypt right now lol.

    Hard to tell if he's talking out of his ass and of course whatever they did with this supposed missile protection, it sound like the EADS has 0 confidence in them hence why they went out and got several batteries of the S-300 and now looking for additional S-400 as well as acquiring the German IRST-SL-T but I think that is strictly for monitoring the F-35. I'm happy with the way they are modernizing everything. Man did Mubarak sit on his ass unlike Sisi who is just exceptional. I think Putin really liked the way Sisi used the Red Line comment and told the armed forces with 2 Mirages sitting on the tarmac fully loaded so he used it in his speech the other day because once Sisi drew the Red Line, the Gobbler and GNA backed off and couldn't do anything. Razz

    PS. If the French can't even work out at least our option for 12 more Rafales under the contract, I say the hell with them and go for the Typhoon through the Italians. 50 or so will cost a lot but combined with 30 Rfales makes 80 of the Eurotrash canards will be perfect. Then compatibility with Saudi's Typhoon will be Be GREAT.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:31 am

    ahmedfire wrote:If they care about Cairo they would supply the complete F-16 package just like what they did with Israel .

    There is no a complete US system that protects Cairo , may be he is talking about some HAWKs .Even Raytheon doesn't put Egypt among the Patriot operators .It's so critical to depend on US AD system to protect the capital probably against Israel , the most closed ally to the US of all the time.


    Here's the one thing I never understood - why only the military aid package is allowed to be transacted between the US and Egypt?  Why not create a separate program where Egypt can pay for certain US weapons that Egypt wants?  Maybe's it's not all about qualitatively and quantitatively giving Israel the advantage?  For example, a Meteor missile costs about $2 million and we don't seem to be having an issue ordering a bunch of those as soon as the French integration into the F3R Rafale is completed and tested and then all the export customers (hopefully including Egypt and they don't throw a monkey wrench at us at the last 2nd since we know quite well Israel is not happy about that at all but the heck with them for now) and Saudi Arabia just bought 20 Meteors for their Typhoons.  Small quantity for Saudia but it looks like they want to test them first before putting in the real order.

    The AIM-120C variants from older batches and much less.  The D which I believe only the US will operate is close to the cost of the Meteor.

    Manufacturer • Hughes: 1991–97
    • Raytheon: 1997–present
    Unit cost • $300,000–$400,000 for 120C variants
    • $1,786,000(FY2014) for 120D[1]
    US$1,090,000[2] (AIM-120D FY 2019)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-120_AMRAAM

    The AIM-120C-5 that even Pakistan has for their vipers are around $400 each like it says and so why not make the US a separate offer to purchase some of these missiles in quantities that would be less than what Israel has?  I think there might be an incentive that some of our smart negotiators could talk US representatives whom could convince Congress to approve the purchase to also help improve US/Egypt relations.  We already signed the CISMOA so that shouldn't be an issue at all and it could very well work, unless they already tried that and it didn't.  If they condition it on ending the Su-35SE purchase, they can easily forget about it and keep sending the free stuff on their dime.  They should smarten up a bit and not only create a new paying customer, but bring Egypt even closer instead of using the Russian weapons purchase and the silly Israeli position as such matters of importance that will only improve the distancing between Egypt and the US.  Because it will only result in the pursuit of more Rafales, maybe Typhoons and more MiG-35s and certainly Su-35SE and of course Egypt will shove and push and bully it's way into purchasing as many Su-57s as possible.  The US is really not making much of an effort to create a solid compromise.  It's a shame because it can be done.  

    Reaper drones @64 million per (the UAE ORDERED 20 lol with Helfire missiles which we already have so we can use 5 or even Cool instead we went to China for the Wingloongs and things will develop even further with China and UAVs/UCAVs so there's another item the US lost on.

    Even and get some JDAM KITS now that our military satellites are fully operational and with that, end the AIM-7 Sparrow supply which would save the US a goof amount of that aid money but the US Navy is still operating them so without researching it, I'm positively sure that those ones are some of the latest fire and forget with seekers and Link-16 9 which we have in out vipers and E-2Cs as well as the Rafales I believe.  But the Sparrows they send us have to iluminate the target the entire time the missile travels to score a direct hit.  Making it a much more difficult weapon to use on our F-16s than I'm sure the ones the US navy uses.  Haram aleihum.
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    Post  ahmedfire Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:49 am

    Why not create a separate program where Egypt can pay for certain US weapons that Egypt wants?  Maybe's it's not all about qualitatively and quantitatively giving Israel the advantage?

    Yup ,simply it's the reason .

    You see Egypt has led the ME and Africa politically and military for decades till the peace treatment had been signed with Usrael .When Egypt involved in a war all Arabs had one voice against Israel .Egypt is a key of influence on Arabs .Gamal Abdel Nasser called for nationalism then all Arabs called for it ,he sent weapons to African countries to fight against the west occupation ,he met President Josip Tito and Che Guevara to cooperate against imperialism, and gave more influence to Soviets  .Sadat called for capitalism and the same thing happened with Arabs .After the peace treatment there is no serious threats against Usrael .

    So the US needs Egypt as an ally to avoid such old version of it .But also they need it not equal or stronger than Usrael ,it's just necessary to make that ally weaker than our bitch there .Two birds with one stone.

    So they will keep talking about " friendship" ,building the Egyptian capabilities and fighting terrorism but under the table they are sharing their spying capabilities with Usrael ,providing it with all the political & military power and knowledge to make it the one with the upper hand .

    Egypt now is pretending with the same fake friendship to take as much as it can from the US aid but on the other side it's building more capabilities from other sources ,that's why the US threatened Egypt with sanctions Laughing

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    Post  Gomig-21 Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:14 am

    ahmedfire wrote:
    Yup ,simply it's the reason .

    You see Egypt has led the ME and Africa politically and military for decades till the peace treatment had been signed with Usrael .When Egypt involved in a war all Arabs had one voice against Israel .Egypt is a key of influence on Arabs .Gamal Abdel Nasser called for nationalism then all Arabs called for it ,he sent weapons to African countries to fight against the west occupation ,he met President Josip Tito and Che Guevara to cooperate against imperialism, and gave more influence to Soviets  .Sadat called for capitalism and the same thing happened with Arabs .After the peace treatment there is no serious threats against Usrael .

    I've been saying this for decades (not trying to shoe my age lolP)

    ahmedfire wrote:So the US needs Egypt as an ally to avoid such old version of it .But also they need it not equal or stronger than Usrael ,it's just necessary to make that ally weaker than our bitch there .Two birds with one stone.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 16 1f602

    ahmedfire wrote:hmedfire"]So they will keep talking about " friendship" ,building the Egyptian capabilities and fighting terrorism but under the table they are sharing their spying capabilities with Usrael ,providing it with all the political & military power and knowledge to make it the one with the upper hand .

    Egypt now is pretending with the same fake friendship to take as much as it can from the US aid but on the other side it's building more capabilities from other sources ,that's why the US threatened Egypt with sanctions Laughing

    Exactly and that's perfectly fine since we're very observant of that fact (heck call it paranoia or whatever) but the way President Sisi and all the new super experienced generals, many whom fought in some form in 1973 and maybe earlier with TREMENDOUS experience can and will use that to their advantage.  Feed false info, send fake codes or do all sorts of things to throw them for a loop.[/quote]

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    Post  GarryB Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:57 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:
    So the US needs Egypt as an ally to avoid such old version of it .But also they need it not equal or stronger than Usrael ,it's just necessary to make that ally weaker than our bitch there .Two birds with one stone.

    More like "it is just necessary to make that ally weaker than our boss there..."

    The US uses military aide as a control... it sounds like generosity, but in actual fact it is a type of control... you can see it in Central and South America... one country gets F-16s... maybe because it has oil like Venezuela and they are not going to sell them Skyhawks and F-5s when they can afford more expensive aircraft... but there is a pecking order so we don't make you more powerful than other countries we control nearby unless you are more important to us of course.

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    Post  lyle6 Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:38 pm

    Its more aptly called military AIDS. We give you newly painted rustbuckets that barely work without a steady supply of servicing and parts that we could interrupt at will if you don't give your all in your tongue game. Eventually only a tiny fraction of the equipment would be available for use which is why when we come in and kick your ass we only expect dudes with small arms and a handful of heavy equipment to deal with.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:13 am

    lyle6 wrote:Its more aptly called military AIDS. We give you newly painted rustbuckets that barely work without a steady supply of servicing and parts that we could interrupt at will if you don't give your all in your tongue game. Eventually only a tiny fraction of the equipment would be available for use which is why when we come in and kick your ass we only expect dudes with small arms and a handful of heavy equipment to deal with.

    Well. don't be surprised in a couple of months when the Ethiopians are complacent because all the games they played in all our negotiations for the fill up time end up really badly for them. It's unfathomable that they would think this is something Sudan and especially us in Egypt wouldn't take such a serious matter for 11 years in the foolishness they've displayed.

    Egyptian air force is no rust buckets I can assure you. The order for the 30 Su-35SE is VERY specific on two fronts. Helps us deal with this situation along with the Rafales, MiG-29/M/35 and 4th largest fleet of F-16s all upgraded to block 40 and a huge burden placed om them which has now relaxed considerably with the new fighter purchases.

    The naval modernization is out of this world. I'm really surprised Ethiopia is taking this lightly.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:56 am

    lyle6 wrote:Its more aptly called military AIDS. We give you newly painted rustbuckets that barely work without a steady supply of servicing and parts that we could interrupt at will if you don't give your all in your tongue game. Eventually only a tiny fraction of the equipment would be available for use which is why when we come in and kick your ass we only expect dudes with small arms and a handful of heavy equipment to deal with.

    BTW, just FYI, every single F-16 the US supplied to Egypt were built from scratch. As a matter of fact, the 4000th F-16 ever built at the current Lockheed Martin F-35 facility in Forth Wort, TX was a big deal. They made a little ceremony for it before they delivered it to Egypt. It was part of a fleet of 20 new aircraft for Egypt.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 16 Aak

    Pratt & Whitney to power Egyptian Air Force F-16s

    https://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article4248.html

    BUT, I am with you as far as all (not most, I mean all) F-4 Phantom II were pretty much taken out of retiring squadrons and instead of heading to the Arizona Bone Yard and we're talking old Phantoms that had passed their prime by a decade and the EAF had nothing but problems with those things. I think out of an example of 40, only 10 were if flying condition and they couldn't or wouldn't repair or overhaul them in Egypt and so they would have to fly or transport them all the way back to the US and it was a nightmare.

    I believe they operated them for a couple of decades, maybe less and either sent them all back to the US or put them in storage and now, the air force chief is an ex-F-4 pilot who still wears his Phantom badge when he dawns his uniform to take occasional F-16 back-seater flights. Other than that, the rest of the entire fleet was brand new built aircraft since that is how the aid works. Egypt requests a particular batch, they figure how much it will cost out of the $1.3 billion allotted, pass the bill through the house of representatives and then the Senate to approve and then depending on who produces the jet or weapon system, they get awarded the contract and get paid to build the stuff for Egypt.

    As a matter of fact, because Egypt refused to have an F-16 factory in Egypt and be given permission to build Vipers for customers all over the world like a couple of countries do in exchange for a permanent US military base, Turkey ended up accepting the offer and they ended up being awarded to build 24 F-16 block 40 I believe for Egypt.

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    Post  ahmedfire Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:19 pm

    Bro @Goming-21 , i think @lyle6 means those F-16 would be less effective if US stopped the logistics for it ,this could be by somehow true but the queston is why the US could do that ? maybe in case of a war with Usrael ? but it doesn't matter because Egypt has a big stocks of spare parts and weapons for it's F-16 fleet ,more enough for a conflict ,EAF can operate the fleet for decades without the US support and by that time other aircrafts will replace the F-16s.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:47 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:Bro @Goming-21 , i think @lyle6 means those F-16 would be less effective if US stopped the logistics for it ,this could be by somehow true but the queston is why the US could do that ? maybe in case of a war with Usrael ? but it doesn't matter because Egypt has a big stocks of spare parts and weapons for it's F-16 fleet ,more enough for a conflict ,EAF can operate the fleet for decades without the US support and by that time other aircrafts will replace the F-16s.


    Yes I realized that, I was just referring to the painted rust bucket parts. That was definitely true with the Phantoms.
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    Post  awmz Sat May 01, 2021 12:03 am

    Congrats boys The Italian-Egyptian deal is in its final stage and about to be signed the deal includes
    24 Eurofighter Typhoon fighter aircraft Tranche 4 (Very likely to include Meteor BVRAAM)
    Additional 4 FREMM frigates (excluding the 2 already arrived)
    20 offshore patrol vessels (Falaj II)
    24 M-346 jet training aircraft and 1 Military Satellite
    Worth 9 to 11 billion euros
    Source: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2021/04/29/italy-egypt-to-sign-mega-defense-deal/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR3hLN644tClnO8L15WqzUYpc0Bky3I7vMQ3EMzNFsUIEtqo4lZEGqA_Bt4 Date yesterday

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sat May 01, 2021 6:42 am

    awmz wrote:Congrats boys The Italian-Egyptian deal is in its final stage and about to be signed the deal includes
    24 Eurofighter Typhoon fighter aircraft Tranche 4 (Very likely to include Meteor BVRAAM)
    Additional 4 FREMM frigates (excluding the 2 already arrived)
    20 offshore patrol vessels (Falaj II)
    24 M-346 jet training aircraft and 1 Military Satellite
    Worth 9 to 11 billion euros
    Source: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2021/04/29/italy-egypt-to-sign-mega-defense-deal/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR3hLN644tClnO8L15WqzUYpc0Bky3I7vMQ3EMzNFsUIEtqo4lZEGqA_Bt4 Date yesterday

    Thanks for posting that.  Just a quick question since I just skimmed through the article but didn't see any part that says it is in the final stage and about to be signed.  Could you point to that part for me please?  Because actually th Italian parliament had already approved that package and complete deal about a month ago and that is what the title of the article says.

    Believe me, no one will be happier and more ecstatic than me if they're gonna sign that deal and it would include the 24 Typhoon Tranche 4!?!?!  That would be insane and I've been pushing for them to give the French the high heeve hoo on the Rafales and forget about them and take these 24 Typhoons which are almost identical to the Rafales and joing them together so there's 48 of them and then look at increasing that number of Typhoon with meteors and tell the French to shove it.  It's so upsetting that they can't even honor the option for 12 more that Egypt holds.  You give someone an option, you better own up to it and they haven't said a single word when the EAF actually wants to buy more than just those 12.  Possibly another 24 or 36 or even more.  But the French....

    If you get a chance, please copy/paste the section that says it's at the final stage because this could be huge. EDIT: Or are you just going by the title?


    Last edited by Gomig-21 on Sat May 01, 2021 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sat May 01, 2021 1:53 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:Believe me, no one will be happier and more ecstatic than me if they're gonna sign that deal and it would include the 24 Rafale Tranche 4!?!?!  That would be insane and I've been pushing for them to give the French the high heeve hoo on the Rafales and forget about them and take these 24 Typhoons which are almost identical to the Rafales and joing them together so there's 48 of them and then look at increasing that number of Typhoon with meteors and tell the French to shove it.  It's so upsetting that they can't even honor the option for 12 more that Egypt holds.  You give someone an option, you better own up to it and they haven't said a single word when the EAF actually wants to buy more than just those 12.  Possibly another 24 or 36 or even more.  But the French....

    The French have really limited Rafale construction capabilities. They had to stop deliveries to their own Air Force to deliver jets to India for example.
    The production line was slowed to a trickle for years, I think they could deliver it, but it might take a really long time.
    Dassault is probably more concerned with the 6th gen right now.
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    Post  Yugo90 Sat May 01, 2021 8:28 pm

    French are expensive and slow...but fighters are probably good if they can wait until they arrive...
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    Post  Gomig-21 Sun May 02, 2021 2:58 am

    lancelot wrote:
    Gomig-21 wrote:Believe me, no one will be happier and more ecstatic than me if they're gonna sign that deal and it would include the 24 Rafale Tranche 4!?!?!  That would be insane and I've been pushing for them to give the French the high heeve hoo on the Rafales and forget about them and take these 24 Typhoons which are almost identical to the Rafales and joing them together so there's 48 of them and then look at increasing that number of Typhoon with meteors and tell the French to shove it.  It's so upsetting that they can't even honor the option for 12 more that Egypt holds.  You give someone an option, you better own up to it and they haven't said a single word when the EAF actually wants to buy more than just those 12.  Possibly another 24 or 36 or even more.  But the French....

    The French have really limited Rafale construction capabilities. They had to stop deliveries to their own Air Force to deliver jets to India for example.
    The production line was slowed to a trickle for years, I think they could deliver it, but it might take a really long time.
    Dassault is probably more concerned with the 6th gen right now.

    The Egyptian order was done in almost record time.  Then they moved to Qatar's 36 and had them wrapped up within a few years, 36 of them with additional Israeli HMDI and helmets and even a rather cool camo pain job.  Now they had to donate a few used ones to India before they got back on track building them brand new ones with all sorts of Israeli stuff I imagine since India buys a lot of Israeli missiles so the HMDI I think is most likely involved and after that, they don't have any orders.  So why not at least agree on the option they gave Egypt 12 of?

    Needing more time is fine BUT, they are actually deep into negotiating 9 to 11 Scorpene deep sea submarines with naval group and the Rafale deal seems to have been put on the self.  Not sure why Egypt needs those deep sea subs but one of the local papers stated that the Mediterranean is rather deep where we have our largest gas fields but I have a feeling they will be venturing further out than just that.  So my feeling is that eventually the Rafale deals for Egypt will not happen and this Typhoon Tranch 4 will dominate the Euro-canarads in Egypt and take over the role of the 24 Rafales which with their RBE2 AESA will act more like a large slew of AWACs aircraft.  Different usages are interesting and can turn out to be genius done if they work

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 16 Proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.navyrecognition.com%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fsouth_america%2Fbrazil%2Fsubmarines%2Fscorpene%2FDCNS_Scorpene_SSK_top

    Rumors are that they might even order 12 to 14 of these.

    The latest leaks say that the deal ranges from 12 to 14 submarines with special specifications for Egypt at a value ranging between 10 to 12 billion dollars, including equipping the base of July 3 with construction yards, equipment and machinery required to enter Egypt in the era of multiple specialized arsenals instead of the single Alexandria arsenal.

    The leak also spoke of an increase in the size of the AIP submarine to accommodate the following:

    1- 25 torpedoes

    2- 20 Exocet anti-ship missiles, the latest version launched from the depths

    3- An unspecified number of air defense missiles, as the first submarine aquired by the Egyptian fleet, to possess this formidable feature

    4- An unspecified number of marine mines

    5- Two autonomous underwater vehicles (AUV)

    6- 30 Ultra Micro AUV, famous for their suicide anti-submarine warfare, with improved range and high speed

    7- Two balloon-launched drone helicopters

    8- 10 anti-torpedoes torpedoes

    9- An anti-micro-anti-submarine system to protect the submarine from new threats in the depths.


    France adheres to the assembly clause and Egypt adheres to the clause of technology transfer and manufacturing. China, Italy, and Germany are waiting for the final result of the negotiations with the French side to intervene and provide better deals than the French side, As Spain did a few days ago in the deal of manufacturing large surface ships with the Egyptian side by presenting a better offer than China, France, Germany. Italy and even Russia, as an attempt to win a deal to manufacture Egyptian surface ships with very special specifications for Egypt.

    Sorry source is in Arabic: https://www.defense-arabic.com/2021/04/22/%d8%b5%d9%81%d9%82%d8%a9-%d8%aa%d8%b5%d9%86%d9%8a%d8%b9-%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%ba%d9%88%d8%a7%d8%b5%d8%a7%d8%aa-%d8%b9%d9%84%d9%89-%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%a3%d8%b1%d8%a7%d8%b6%d9%8a-%d8%a7%d9%84%d9%85%d8%b5%d8%b1/

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    Post  Isos Mon May 03, 2021 6:25 am

    Picture taken by french air force pilot.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 16 Fb_img14

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    Post  awmz Tue May 04, 2021 12:59 am

    BREAKING NEWS FROM REUTERS https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/france-sell-30-rafale-fighter-jets-egypt-investigative-website-2021-05-03/?fbclid=IwAR22kKBLduPvtamLyPUnKvEakTD1NOQqQT_w0M9ZtfXTBfpt31o2v3bjg9s
    We still don't know if this will affect the Eurofighter typhoon deal or not


    Last edited by awmz on Tue May 04, 2021 1:04 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Post  awmz Tue May 04, 2021 1:02 am

    Btw defense arabic Website is bs don't get anything from them

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