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    Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:08 pm

    Those are the laser sensor fir the fuze. AE variant should also have it.
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    Post  Gomig-21 on Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:50 am

    Isos wrote:Those are the laser sensor fir the fuze. AE variant should also have it.

    That's the whole point of the discovery! Proximity fuse on the AE must be through other areas.

    Here:

    RVV-AE

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 12 ERAfVqaUYAANUqX?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 12 ERAhSqDX0Ag58n7?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    https://militarywatchmagazine.com/m/articles/2020/03/10/article_5e67da5f94a077_13686607.jpg

    RVV-SD

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 12 R77loadhh8
    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 12 Rvv-cd-1
    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 12 001.jpgb802413e-f758-47b9-a172-c6e15794f32cOriginal
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:47 am

    Can't see your images in posts 271 and 273....

    Here is an R-73L with laser proximity fuse ports...

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 12 Dsc_1010

    Specifically the two vertical rectangular ports below the front portion of the weapon pylon is the laser proximity fuse locations...
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    Post  Isos on Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:15 am

    Well it seems RVV-AE has a longer fuze. You can see the long rectangular white antennas on your second picture and covered in red on the first.

    Don't you have an indian rvv ae picture on su-30mki ? Because the picture shows a russian crew and Russia doesn't operate rvv ae.
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    Post  Gomig-21 on Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:36 pm

    Isos wrote:Well it seems RVV-AE has a longer fuze. You can see the long rectangular white antennas on your second picture and covered in red on the first.

    Don't you have an indian rvv ae picture on su-30mki ? Because the picture shows a russian crew and Russia doesn't operate rvv ae.

    Nah, man. I'm not gonna sit here and try to convince you all day and every day, Isos, my friend lol. I'm 54 years old ma bro I have much more funner things to do hahaaaa. If you don't believe it, that's no skin off of my teeth, good bro. I happen to have been looking into this for a long time now and someone I don't even know just posted that on Twitter and it was exactly what I had discovered doing my own, personal research. So I'm fine with it.

    But it is interesting how things are black or white with you. Like you leave no room for the possibility that the picture might've been older when the VVS was still using the RVV-AE or R-77 before they received the R-77-1?! Or that they might still have a surplus of the latter even though they're receiving new batches of the former. So things sometimes aren't exactly black or white.

    At any rate, really looking forward to seeing the Su-35S in Egyptian colors soon enough and the slew of weapons that badass will carry. I'm very hopeful to see the R-27 in both its variants and let's hope that the EAF does have a display at some point where they show all the weapons with signs on them like they used to so we can stop this guessing game. But at the same time, we might have to brace ourselves with the Biden administration coming in as there is a strong possibility of CAATSA being invoked which will certainly create unwanted tension. But we've also learned that president Sisi has appointed a very special, hand-picked based on experience and other factors, a new group to be the Egyptian lobby in Washington as they've learned a lot from the Saudi and the UAE lobbies from the years past. I can only hope that they move on the Su-57 soon enough and not wait too long.

    @Gary you might have a firewall or something that isn't allowing you to see certain pictures since they're all showing up and it appears all the other fellas are seeing them.
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    Post  ahmedfire on Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:52 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:So according to many online enthusiast who got a look at these pics here, claim that this missile handing off an EAF MiG-29M/M2 or like I like to simply call it the MiG-35 is in fact an R-77-1 or better yet, an RVV-SD.  Gary or Isos or AhmeFire what do you fellas think of that?

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 12 Proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fdefense-arab

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 12 Proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fdefense-arab

    Nope , the one on the Egyptian Mig is R-77 / RVV-AE variant .

    You can know that from the rear of the missile :

    This is the Egyptian one ,you can see the upside parts design on the rear on both sides of the electric steering parts.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 12 Screen32

    It's the same R-77 / RVV-AE variant which shown in MAKS-2007 as below

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 12 Screen33


    But now the below one is R-77-1 / RVV-SD missile which was shown in MAKS-2011 .

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 12 Screen34
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    Post  Gomig-21 on Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:35 pm

    Well, that's what I've been trying to find out for a while now and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever that the EAF would buy the shorter range R-77 when the longer range one is in fact available for export.  Go figure that one out for the sake of our sanity unless Russia denied it to Egypt because of Israel?!  Otherwise there is ABSOLUTELY zero reason or advantage to purchasing a missile that has an 80km range as the "medium" range missile in your inventory for your potent Russian aircraft when you could have the one that has the 110km range.  Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless it was forced on them.

    And this fella has been pretty reliable for Egyptian Armed Forces news for some time, now.  This is what prompted this whole discussion.

    https://twitter.com/mahmouedgamal44/status/1330077992014524416


    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:55 pm

    It's not that I can't be conviced but it's quite hard to differenciate the two since they share a same design.

    But no problem lol1 . Your posts are always nice to read !

    The missile showed at exhibitions are not reliable because they are not real one. They just make it in plastic and real ones can be different.

    But I agree that IMO it's the r-77-1. Real medium range BVR missiles is one of the reason they bought mig-29.


    Concerning the CAATSA sanctions, I don't think they have the choice now. They already bought mig-29 with russian weapons which makes easy the integration of su-35 and Israel is getting f-35. US won't supply them anything that can beat israeli f-16, let alone f-35. France is also unlikely to be a real partener for Sisi.

    IMO they will soon order su-57 too.
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    Post  ahmedfire on Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:17 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:Well, that's what I've been trying to find out for a while now and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever that the EAF would buy the shorter range R-77 when the longer range one is in fact available for export.  Go figure that one out for the sake of our sanity unless Russia denied it to Egypt because of Israel?!  Otherwise there is ABSOLUTELY zero reason or advantage to purchasing a missile that has an 80km range as the "medium" range missile in your inventory for your potent Russian aircraft when you could have the one that has the 110km range.  Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless it was forced on them.

    And this fella has been pretty reliable for Egyptian Armed Forces news for some time, now.  This is what prompted this whole discussion.

    https://twitter.com/mahmouedgamal44/status/1330077992014524416



    Well ,Gamal is mistaken this time but we don't know if there are other deals or not ,you know the Egyptian army hidden deals are always on the table .

    Israel has nothing to do with Russia regarding any Egyptian deals ,actually even US can't stop the Su-35 deal .

    The range is not everything out there , if it was then the Russian will win any BVR fight using R-37 on Mig-31 .

    Over 50 km BVR hit is still a surprise . The A-A  missiles are not only for BVR fight ,it's for short and medium fight and for trainig and hunting drones and hels ,for cheap versions those tasks are perfect .

    Don't be hurry the war is not on the doors ,trying to purchase everything is not an advantage but it will drain your pocket money and Egypt has already other sectors like healthcare system and education system that need a huge budget , that's why Russia didn't hurry for AESA .

    The point is you got the platform , just arrange the timeline for what armament you need and when you need .
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    Post  Isos on Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:23 pm

    Price of r-77 and r-77-1 should be quite similar.

    Range is imporyant, indian were outrange by pakistani AMRAAMs.
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    Post  Gomig-21 on Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:47 pm

    Isos wrote:Price of r-77 and r-77-1 should be quite similar.

    Range is imporyant, indian were outrange by pakistani AMRAAMs.

    You beat me to it!  I was just going to tell Ahmedfire that exact thing in that the range itself might not be the all important factor, but its importance in relation to the radar recognizing the target being within the missile's range will be the determining factor as to if it locks on or not and allows the pilot the first shot.

    So he with the longer range will get the first shot off.  That's the whole stink about standoff ranges and what the US has built their entire F-35 program around that concept and it was unfortunate for the IAF pilot who saw the Pakistani target on his radar but couldn't fire at it because the missile's range wouldn't allow it.  In the meantime, the PAF F-16 with its AIM-120C5 and roughly what, 100km range?  Saw and locked on and fired and forgot and scored the kill.

    I'm just dumbfounded that they would settle for the shorter range missile it makes no sense at all and not being in a hurry, ya 3amo haram aleik ya basha how long have we been neutered out of the BVR game? LOL!  What is it 30 years or something?  I guess what's another 20 years right!? Laughing
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:34 am


    @Gary you might have a firewall or something that isn't allowing you to see certain pictures since they're all showing up and it appears all the other fellas are seeing them.

    Are you uploading images or hotlinking?

    Often hotlinking has the problem that sometimes media is not viewable in some countries because of rights issues etc.

    Hotlinking is also not supposed to be used on this forum.

    Well it seems RVV-AE has a longer fuze. You can see the long rectangular white antennas on your second picture and covered in red on the first.

    Those are not laser fuse systems... the missiles with the round circles on the R-77 family missiles use the laser fuse... AFAIK.

    Well, that's what I've been trying to find out for a while now and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever that the EAF would buy the shorter range R-77 when the longer range one is in fact available for export. Go figure that one out for the sake of our sanity unless Russia denied it to Egypt because of Israel?! Otherwise there is ABSOLUTELY zero reason or advantage to purchasing a missile that has an 80km range as the "medium" range missile in your inventory for your potent Russian aircraft when you could have the one that has the 110km range. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless it was forced on them.

    Yes... the Egyptians are bloody stupid.... they stop buying US fighters because the US wont sell them the AAMs they want, so they change and buy Russian fighters... who wont sell them the AAMs they want despite having even longer ranged missiles (RVV-BD) available for export too.

    But lets just say they are not stupid... lets say they are smart... they just bought new powerful Russian fighters... Israel knows a little about them operating in Syria from their own and US experience... so easy to acquire public footage of new Egyptian Su-35s with R-77-1 missiles and R-37M long range missiles would get them upset... they will be exercising communication channels to Egypt and the US and Russia pretty damn quickly having a tantrum and making all sorts of threats and promises of attacks if things don't change.

    Or Russia could sell them some cheaper older less capable R-77s to show off with their new shiny planes that will make the Israelis relax and remain a little calmer because they think they could get much closer and still take them because they have inferior missiles.

    War stocks of proper missiles being kept away from the public eye... test them in Russia before you buy them to make sure they work as advertised and then keep them as "War Stocks".... a nice surprise for later.

    IMO they will soon order su-57 too.

    If Algeria are buying 14 then why not... they could form the core of a really powerful air force... for any region, let alone the one it is in.

    The point is you got the platform , just arrange the timeline for what armament you need and when you need .

    As a WVR missile the old R-77 missiles are rather potent high energy missiles... those grid fins offer very strong turning performance compared with much smaller surfaces like little triangular fins on the AMRAAM which allow only small low rate turns without stalling.

    Range is imporyant, indian were outrange by pakistani AMRAAMs.

    Range is important only if you have the advantage... even with older model missiles R-27E model missiles outrange older model AMRAAM too so a mix of old R-77s and R-27E missiles is a useful combination, but I rather suspect the Egyptian AF could easily be keeping rather quiet about the missiles it is buying and the ones it is displaying... it is not in their interests to show their whole hand at this stage...

    Of course if they have bought jamming pods what exactly is the EFFECTIVE range of AMRAAM... I am guessing that in the presence of a modern fighter with effective EW equipment it might not be max kinematic range...

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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:33 pm

    Isos wrote:Price of r-77 and r-77-1 should be quite similar.

    Range is imporyant, indian were outrange by pakistani AMRAAMs.

    You beat me to it!  I was just going to tell Ahmedfire that exact thing in that the range itself might not be the all important factor, but its importance in relation to the radar recognizing the target being within the missile's range will be the determining factor as to if it locks on or not and allows the pilot the first shot.

    So he with the longer range will get the first shot off.  That's the whole stink about standoff ranges and what the US has built their entire F-35 program around that concept and it was unfortunate for the IAF pilot who saw the Pakistani target on his radar but couldn't fire at it because the missile's range wouldn't allow it.  In the meantime, the PAF F-16 with its AIM-120C5 and roughly what, 100km range?  Saw and locked on and fired and forgot and scored the kill.

    I'm just dumbfounded that they would settle for the shorter range missile it makes no sense at all and not being in a hurry, ya 3amo haram aleik ya basha how long have we been neutered out of the BVR game? LOL!  What is it 30 years or something?  I guess what's another 20 years right!?

    Well I didn’t say the range doesn’t matter but it’s one from multiple factors that affecting the air combat .

    If everything is perfect then the range would be an advantage . If You have a good EW system and good pilot and early awareness and the right tactics and know the enemy cababilities then you could win even if you have a shorter missile but of course you can’t risk and better to have a combination of missiles .

    Indians and Pakistanis have calimed too much claims and we can't be sure of what really happened but we saw one indian mig-21 was down which I think is normal even if it was upgraded . They said they were surprised by the Pakistani attack which put more questions about the situation there .

    What was the intelligence picture before the fight ? The exact position of the Mig in relation to the F-16 ? Pilot experience ? pilots' situational awareness ? The status of electronic warfare environment? communications flowing status ? Did the F-16 have intelligence aircraft airborne and sharing info with its fighters ? Was it flying at low-level, using the terrain to mask its radar signature ? Was everything working ok on the  Mig-21 ?

    Actually Indians could better use a sneaky tactics using Su-30 as an AWACS that share the data to the silent mode Mig-21 on the front to launch it’s missiles even before the Pakistanis know it was there .

    If they choosed to go one VS one scenario so they should prepare themselves for the worst case and make a combination of different ranges of missiles .

    I'm just dumbfounded that they would settle for the shorter range missile it makes no sense at all and not being in a hurry, ya 3amo haram aleik ya basha how long have we been neutered out of the BVR game? LOL!  What is it 30 years or something?  I guess what's another 20 years right!? Laughing

    Ya basha we Egyptian are always worry  lol1 , well with US it was a different story and that's why we went to Russia .

    You know the guys up there in power are aware about your thoughts and Sisi already received all the reports from the Airforce leadership and he had the courage to say no to Americans and decide to go to Russia but as Garry said the Egyptians will try to not show the whole power they have specially the one that makes Israel more worried and complain to the US as those bastards always doing .

    Also war is about the surprises .

    Till now there is no any operational photo for Antey-2500 .We all were surprised by the Mi-24 and no one actually know when we got it .Egypt purchased the Tor-M1 but actually it appears in a training after 2 years of the deal . Egypt has may be the biggest drone stock in the region ,suicide and attack drones but they will not disclose the real numbers .

    As a WVR missile the old R-77 missiles are rather potent high energy missiles... those grid fins offer very strong turning performance compared with much smaller surfaces like little triangular fins on the AMRAAM which allow only small low rate turns without stalling.

    Also the speed  of mach +2.2  on Su-35 or Mig-29  at higher altitudes will add 30 percent more range to an R-27 or R-77 missile which could make the R-77 AE version matching with C-5 AMRRAM .

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    Post  Sujoy on Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:43 am

    Isos wrote:Price of r-77 and r-77-1 should be quite similar.

    Range is imporyant, indian were outrange by pakistani AMRAAMs.
    PAF fired a dozen AIM 120s and almost all the missiles missed their target by a mile and then some. Despite the fact that EW system on Su 30MKI is not state of the art.

    The only AIM 120 that hit an Indian Mig 21 was fired from WVR after the Mig 21 strayed into Pakistani territory.
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    Post  Gomig-21 on Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:24 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Are you uploading images or hotlinking?

    Often hotlinking has the problem that sometimes media is not viewable in some countries because of rights issues etc.

    Hotlinking is also not supposed to be used on this forum.

    Woops! lol, maybe that is what I'm doing?  What's the difference?  You use the photo's jgp link and paste it onto the link bar.

    GarryB wrote:Yes... the Egyptians are bloody stupid.... they stop buying US fighters because the US wont sell them the AAMs they want, so they change and buy Russian fighters... who wont sell them the AAMs they want despite having even longer ranged missiles (RVV-BD) available for export too.

    But lets just say they are not stupid... lets say they are smart... they just bought new powerful Russian fighters... Israel knows a little about them operating in Syria from their own and US experience... so easy to acquire public footage of new Egyptian Su-35s with R-77-1 missiles and R-37M long range missiles would get them upset... they will be exercising communication channels to Egypt and the US and Russia pretty damn quickly having a tantrum and making all sorts of threats and promises of attacks if things don't change.

    Or Russia could sell them some cheaper older less capable R-77s to show off with their new shiny planes that will make the Israelis relax and remain a little calmer because they think they could get much closer and still take them because they have inferior missiles.

    War stocks of proper missiles being kept away from the public eye... test them in Russia before you buy them to make sure they work as advertised and then keep them as "War Stocks".... a nice surprise for later.

    I hope you weren't insinuating that I, and Egyptian, was claiming the Egyptians in charge of the EAF are stupid LOL!  I'm pretty sure you weren't it's just funny how you worded that and how it can be misconstrued as such.  

    At any rate, as much as that could be a possibility, I usually find this school of thought less likely than plausible.  The reason being (and I had this argument in short with LMFS regarding the Su-57's weapon's bays) is that we might be left in the dark, but most major military intelligence agencies as well as political influences around the world and in this case, particularly Israel's ability to acquire information as such is very strong and I honestly don't think that they don't know exactly what Egypt has purchased from Russia or whomever.  I always sight Netanyahu's personal friendship and how he gets a seat right next to Putin during the yearly Russian parade lol.  The connection is too front and center to ignore and that's not even counting the Mossad's ability to acquire any information they want and you know what, most other countries have their own intelligence capabilities themselve that I wouldn't doubt Egypt's ability to find out certain things from the other side.  That makes this whole "hiding from potential enemy's" almost moot at this point.

    I recognize the fact that they do it.  But I think the reasons are other than hiding.  It's for political reasons which is mostly why Egypt hid from view the S-300, the TOR & BUK missiles and the Protivnik-GE and Resonance-NE radar systems.  This is while the US knows almost instantaneously that Egypt has procured these systems, they can't prove it without giving up their spying methods which then undermines them to the rest of the world and particularly their allies who then would think what they hell is the US spying on us now if that's what they're doing to allies like Egypt etc.

    It's the same thing I tell people about the phantom "kill switch" in all of the Eyptian F-16s lol.  I tell them (exactly what you even said somewhere I forget) that if they ever had to do that and the world found out, what would that do to their sales?!?!  It would instantaneously destroy them.

    So I'm not sure about this hiding business and just so that they don't freak Israel out which I believe they already know anyway so it seems moot.  Something isn't right about them using the RVV-SD.

    GarryB wrote:IMO they will soon order su-57 too.

    If Algeria are buying 14 then why not... they could form the core of a really powerful air force... for any region, let alone the one it is in.

    The point is you got the platform , just arrange the timeline for what armament you need and when you need .

    I don't believe Algeria has bought anything close to the Su-57.  How is that even possible when it just went into production for the VVS?!?!?!  It might be a discussion for a tender agreement for once the jets for the RuAF are delivered, then they'll discuss signing a contract for whomever.  But to do it now seems very unlikely.

    GarryB wrote:As a WVR missile the old R-77 missiles are rather potent high energy missiles... those grid fins offer very strong turning performance compared with much smaller surfaces like little triangular fins on the AMRAAM which allow only small low rate turns without stalling.

    Hence why it also doesn't seem right because then why have the R-73 with the monocle head system then?!
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    Post  GarryB Yesterday at 12:33 am

    PAF fired a dozen AIM 120s and almost all the missiles missed their target by a mile and then some. Despite the fact that EW system on Su 30MKI is not state of the art.

    The only AIM 120 that hit an Indian Mig 21 was fired from WVR after the Mig 21 strayed into Pakistani territory.

    The vast majority of BVR missile kills come from rather shorter range attacks against unaware and or poorly equipped targets... if you know you are under attack you can do things to make it very unlikely the missile will hit you... if you don't know until the missile goes active then you might not have time to accelerate and turn and make the missile miss.... or interfere with its guidance with decoys and jamming.

    Woops! lol, maybe that is what I'm doing? What's the difference? You use the photo's jgp link and paste it onto the link bar.

    Yeah, that would be the problem.

    Hot linking means that when the page loads here it accesses the site with the image and uploads it and displays it here. In other words the site with the image gets accessed but their pages and advertising don't get any traffic, so their servers store the image and upload it for us, but they don't get any benefit from all that traffic.

    What you should be doing is downloading the image to your computer and then using the other photo option that says host a photo. This then allows you to find the photo on your hard drive and upload it to a storage site designed for hosting images. It means the images are more reliable and nobody gets annoyed at all this traffic but no revenue or credit.

    If you click the other link with the photo with a small floppy disk in its bottom corner of you click select files and find the image or group of images on your device and select them you can then click on the upload button to upload them to the hosting site and it will show three links you can use. The middle link copied and pasted into your post will make it appear in your post.

    If there is a lot of images you can perhaps post one and then include a link to where you got it from so people who are interested can see the rest and the person who owns the images can get traffic on their site too.

    I hope you weren't insinuating that I, and Egyptian, was claiming the Egyptians in charge of the EAF are stupid LOL! I'm pretty sure you weren't it's just funny how you worded that and how it can be misconstrued as such.

    I was trying to word it clearly so that the option that they are not just idiots but stupid idiots is rather unlikely and rather difficult to believe. Smile

    They are buying MiG-29Ms and Su-35s... how can I say they are not smart... russia

    At any rate, as much as that could be a possibility, I usually find this school of thought less likely than plausible.

    So you are saying they are idiots.... What a Face

    If you go to a shop and say... look... I used to buy stuff from your competition but they wouldn't let me have the good stuff that I wanted... what stuff do you have and will you let me buy it would be their first question I am sure, and even if Russia wont sell long range AAMs then they could easily buy Chinese ones... they could adapt them to their own Su-35s too... but I don't think that will be needed... the R-37M has been shown under the wing of an Su-35 for a reason... an export reason I suspect...

    I always sight Netanyahu's personal friendship and how he gets a seat right next to Putin during the yearly Russian parade lol.

    When they shot down that russian intel plane they weren't so friendly... Israeli claims it was an accident were openly refuted with full descriptions of what actually happened revealed to show the lie...

    Putin does not hate Israel, but business is business... Egypt is an important customer.

    The connection is too front and center to ignore and that's not even counting the Mossad's ability to acquire any information they want and you know what, most other countries have their own intelligence capabilities themselve that I wouldn't doubt Egypt's ability to find out certain things from the other side. That makes this whole "hiding from potential enemy's" almost moot at this point.

    Appearance can often be more important than fact... besides if Israel does not want Egypt to get nice stuff then the obvious solution is an order for 5 million long range Russian AAMs... they wont have the excess production capacity to supply export orders for the next ten years... Twisted Evil

    It's the same thing I tell people about the phantom "kill switch" in all of the Eyptian F-16s lol. I tell them (exactly what you even said somewhere I forget) that if they ever had to do that and the world found out, what would that do to their sales?!?! It would instantaneously destroy them.

    It would but they wont be that obvious and open... they are not open about anything normally.

    When an Egyptian F-16 gets an Israeli F-35 in his sights over Israeli territory and is pressing the button to fire it wont say... sorry you don't have permission to shoot down Israeli aircraft in this geographic location please return to base this aircraft will shut down in 20 minutes... you had better be on the ground when it does...

    No... what it will more likely do is disable all onboard telemetry systems and voice recorders and communications, disable the ejection seat and dive into the ground in full AB... wow those F-35s are knocking down those Egyptian F-16s like dominos... we should get some.

    Or... more subtly you appear to get a lock with your missile but as it approaches the target it veers off to one side and misses, while your jammers are on and self defence systems are active but his missiles seem to be attracted to your plane and hit every time... or there is a flashing light and an engine problem that forces you to disengage and return to base... or any combination of all of these things... modern fighters are software driven and when certain criteria are met you can have the aircraft do all sorts of things... change the fuel burn to make the exhaust smokey, shudder in flight like something is broken or has fallen off by rapid oscillation of the horizontal tail surface... it would not be hard... even just making the plane emit a signal that Patriot missiles can home in on from enormous distances...

    So I'm not sure about this hiding business and just so that they don't freak Israel out which I believe they already know anyway so it seems moot. Something isn't right about them using the RVV-SD.

    We know very little about what missiles they have purchased... I would expect a rather wide range of missiles were purchased even just for in situ testing.

    The funny thing is that some systems work well in the country they are made but when taken to other countries the different conditions can reveal problems.

    For instance the thermal sights on the Spyder system are not so good in hot moist climates... or perhaps dust or extreme high temperatures during the day and low temps at night can be a problem for some systems too.

    I don't believe Algeria has bought anything close to the Su-57. How is that even possible when it just went into production for the VVS?!?!?! It might be a discussion for a tender agreement for once the jets for the RuAF are delivered, then they'll discuss signing a contract for whomever. But to do it now seems very unlikely.

    They always intended to export the Su-57 but of course not the same Su-57 the Russian military are using.

    Exports are very lucrative because they can generate a much larger profit from sales which can fund further development and research and increased production numbers is always good for any aircraft type.

    For all we know delivery might start in 2 years time or even 5 years time... pretty cool though...

    I wonder if this sale might stimulate the Indians to take another look at the aircraft... or indeed the Chinese...


    Hence why it also doesn't seem right because then why have the R-73 with the monocle head system then?!

    The R-73 is a very potent high off boresight AAM, but the monocle sighting system can be used for any weapon... it links the weapons seeker to the line of sight of the pilot so the pilot can look at the target and the sensor in the missile is pointed in the same direction the pilot is looking... within the limits of the weapon of course. This makes locking up the target much faster because a normal missile like Sidewinder looks forward about 20 degrees either side of bore sight (10 degrees left and 10 degrees right... a bigger field of view and it would keep locking on to other targets like the sun). So you would have to turn the plane so the target is in that 20 degree forward cone and then the missile will scan that volume of space for targets to lock... with a group of targets you wont know which one you are locking. With a helmet mounted sight you know which target it is looking at and it locks almost straight away with a suitable target.

    The pilot can also use the HMS to direct his radar towards a target without having to scan for it or to use the laser range finder to range a target perhaps for the IRST also without scanning with the radar and therefore alerting the target.

    The point is that you can use the R-73 and it is a very potent missile... especially at crossing targets or very close targets because the thrust vector motor on the R-73 would allow it to turn and chase a target heading towards you but say 2km away to one side... when locked the R-73 will turn hard and follow the target as it draws level and flys past you.

    For a target 10km away that is in front an R-77 will accelerate to higher flight speed than the R-73 and will get to the target much quicker... it has a warhead four times bigger and is a powerful missile that would still be burning rocket fuel at 10km so will have a lot of energy to turn and hit the target.

    You often read about western aircraft shooting AMRAAM at targets at 15 - 20km range where they probably could have used a sidewinder too.

    The thing is that a BVR missile has more energy at such ranges and hits harder... and if it misses you will be much closer to the target and then can launch the R-73...

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