Ah come on, that's not fair. There's a lot of blame that can get thrown around all over the place at everyone involved during that time and after the war etc.
I am not criticising Egypt... at the time it suited your interests...
But I don't ever see a shift again because those were extenuating circumstances that involved making peace and let's be honest, the US had a lot more clout during those years and in that particular theater than the Soviet Union.
I am not saying it was right or wrong... the conflict of the time between the Soviets and the Americans really meant nothing to Egypt...
But now, with Sisi and looking at the current paradigm, these alliances won't be strictly in favor of one or the other, but rather a cumulative consortium of friendships and alliances. You need to look at other fields that are non-military and more economic in structure to really see how far the Egypt/Russia relations have come to, including the new nuclear reactor Russia is building and many other projects in Egypt. So circumstance are much different now, not to mention there were major differences back then that led to what happened.
Lots of countries try to do this... the US usually gets upset that you continue to trade with Russia and buy their weapons instead of buying all American stuff and you will get sanctions and ultimatums...
If anything I've learned through my 50+ years of following this history, is that Russia -- during whichever time period -- would never support a potential or current adversary of Israel to the point where that support could be the cause of its defeat.
I agree, but probably think it is more to do with the fear of what the US or Israel herself might do with their nuclear weapons if faced to overwhelming military threats from all sides... the ME glowing is not in any ones interests...
Meaning that even if they sell the MiG-35 and the Su-35, they still won't arm them to the point where they can actually take down Israel's F-35s or be capable of mounting an offensive attack into Israel that might be needed to reverse an Israeli offensive.
As far as Russia is concerned the weapons a customer buys are theirs and they can do with them as they please... quite a few Kornet missiles they have sold to various countries in the ME ended up being used against Israeli Merkavas. Not sure that Russia did anything concrete to stop that directly, though I am sure some of the places the Israelis bomb include warehouses with very similarly shaped containers...
An attack on Israel is not only a means to launch an unprovoked attack, but especially a provoked one. This is one of the reasons why the SCALP was originally stopped by the US.
Hang on evidence of the US restricting and controlling what Egypt can get and can use is not evidence in any regard that is relate-able to Russia.
For example, everyone who has the F-16 has the AIM-120 except Egypt and Iraq. Even Jordan! Who is right next door to Israel has the AIM-120 for its F-16s.
Perhaps they see them as easier to defeat so their missiles wont get to be a problem, whereas Egypt has a much larger force and is probably better organised and trained.
First of all, there are too many gaddam names for these Russian missiles!!! Is the R-77M the same as the RVV-SD?
The original RVV-AE is the first R-77. They upgraded it and Russianised it and generally improved its performance in the R-77-1 which is the current standard Russian AF model right now... the export version is called RVV-SD. The R-77M and the R-77PD are the two extended range models.. the former with an enlarged and improved rocket motor and the latter using a combined rocket ramjet propulsion like Meteor... both supposed to have flight ranges of 200km+.
The R-77-1 or RVV-SD has a range of about 110km... the R-77 about 80km or so.
If the Swedes, Italians, Brits, Germans and Spaniards are operating the Meteor (and supposedly now India is as well), then why aren't Saudi Arabia and especially Egypt? Kinda ticks one off to tell you the truth. Something fishy is going on.
Jobs for the boys is great when you are one of the boys... from the outside it just seems unfair... but they are not going to change that for you.
I'm confused with all these friggin numbers and names LOL! Can we just use one or the other? Either R-77-1 or RVV-SD? I'm assuming those two are the same?
They refer to the domestic (R-77-1) and the export (RVV-SD) models which are not identical, but basically the same. Technically RVV-SD is more accurate talking about missiles for Egypt or India.
That makes a lot of sense. That could very well be the case. But let me ask you, would 300 units or missiles be too much for that training purpose considering there are 46 aircraft to use those weapons? That's a lot of loot, too. So a lot of money being spent on practice rounds, so to speak and isn't there other, cheaper and equally as effective ways to train in BVR engagement without wasting 300 missiles?
There will be captive dummy missiles with no motor but a real seeker and other bits so you can go through the process of sending the appropriate intercept info to the missile and pretend firing and the conditions at launch can be used to determine how likely a hit would be.
During training you want pilots to experience at least one real missile launch, so 3-4 pilots per aircraft... that means with about 50 aircraft 150-200 odd real missile launches... the point is that training continues for the life of the aircraft as new pilots go through training so over the next 5 years they might go through more than 300... on your border with Libya such missiles could also be used against threats and drones if needed... they are certainly not useless but they are not that expensive either.
I am just guessing... they might be base missile stocks for the MiGs and the Sukhois and when they buy their Su-35s they might get 1,000 RVV-SDs for the Flankers and the Fulcrums... and their Ka-52Ks...
In fact it would be ideal for them as being fired from a low altitude and low speed helicopter they are not going to reach more than 20-30km anyway... their CM wave AESA radars should be able to track air targets from pretty significant distances too including down to sea level.
If the R-37M shows up in the EAF, then I'll take everything back! Even at only 300km range, that is about as potent as any BVR missile out there and so it would change the dynamics completely.
You wont get the 320+km range R-37M, but you should be able to buy the RVV-BD which is the export model... why have an export model if it is not for export...
And another thing... what you get now does not in any way restrict what you can buy in the future... they might buy a batch of RVV-AEs and a batch of RVV-SDs, and then when the R-77M is ready for export they might buy them and come to the conclusion that price wise RVV-AE and R-77M gives the best bank for buck... or they might decide the R-77M is the best so we will just buy that.... or any combination...
They might've already tried that and failed.
I am sure they have. Israel and her supporters are not joined at the hip... I am sure various supporters have suggested to Russia that they shouldn't just sell all their best stuff because Israel will learn to defeat it and share that with everyone and it will become useless.... but Russian kit didn't get good in a vacuum... it was tested in combat in various places and improvements came from combat testing... so actually seeing how Israel try to deal with Russian gear is useful because it shows then how HATO might try to deal with their stuff too, so they can develop counter counter measures.
So far in Syria the tactic is to rely on stand off weapons and intel to find weakspots... despite having F-35s...
Then Netanyahu compromises and says "ok, how about not selling them the long range BVR missile to still give us the edge?" Putin says "now that I can do." I don't know, I hope that's not the case but it's not out of the realm of possibilities.
Are you going to suggest that is highly likely?
AFAIK the Russian AF never bought the RVV-AE in any great numbers... it started as a cold war project and a lot of components were Ukrainian. The current models being sold have been Russianised but for all we know they might have had stocks of the RVV-AE they wanted to get rid of so made an offer in conjunction with the aircraft purchase...
Probably against most AFs out there, but against the Israelis with their HMCS and all their technological superiority in avionics and things of that sort, it would still be a hard nut to crack.
They have very talented pilots... but the MiG-35 and Su-35 are very manouverable planes and with thrust vectoring engines I don't think any western fighter could beat them all other things being equal.
The MiG-29 old 1980s model had a special fire control system where you looked at your target with your helmet mounted sight monocle on your helmet to get a lock which slaved your IR guided missiles seeker to where you were looking so it didn't have to scan its full field of view to find the target... it looked where you looked... but the IRST also looked and could lock and the radar also looked and could lock. In close in combat the IRSTs wide field of view and tracking speed meant in a dogfight you used that to lock the target... the laser range finder was for air targets out to about 8km and was used to precisely determine range.
If you were in a dog fight a aiming reticule appeared in your HUD and you manouvered the aircraft to put the aim point on the target... all the while with your finger pulling the firing trigger. The gun would not fire a shot until the gun was aligned perfectly and a hit was guaranteed... in training with drones MiG pilots reported the gun would fire a burst of 3-7 rounds and then stop but the targets will getting hit with most of those rounds and were being destroyed.
The early MiGs had 150 rounds for the 30mm cannon... the MiG-35 has about 70 rounds because it is so accurate...
With TVC engines you can swing your nose around any direction you want and hose down multiple opponents at a time...
Russian systems in Syria have nothing to do with Syria but everything to do with protecting Russians. Why else is israel attacking Syria with ease, so your assumption here is incorrect also imo.
Israel is not attacking Syria with ease... the targets protected by air defence systems generally stop most of the weapons used in the attacks.... occasionally a warehouse gets hit... they certainly make a lot of claims.
Though we’ll most likely never know, I’d suggest that you’re well wide of the mark here. They absolutely would’ve tried but failed because Russia needs the sales but absolutely caved with the missiles; it was essentially a x 2 win for Russia when you look at it from that perspective.
Of course they would try to block all Russian weapon sales, but what are you basing your claim they caved in over missiles?
.Of course Russia is happy that EAF is turning it's compass to the Russian platforms ,Egypt is a big market .
And a country that does not support terrorist groups in Syria and Afghanistan etc etc...