Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21

    Posts : 64
    Points : 66
    Join date : 2016-07-17
    Location : Boston USA

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Gomig-21 on Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:36 pm

    Isos wrote:Look at the picture of the list of weapon they ordered posted by ahmedfire few post above. It is written rvv-ae.

    I thought you meant the "picture" or "image" of the MiG-35 with the R-77 and the Kh-38 hanging on its pylons that he posted.  You're talking about the SIPRI list of weapons.  I see that now.  That kinda sucks if it's correct.


    Last edited by Gomig-21 on Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6204
    Points : 6196
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:38 pm

    30% or 40% is not 0%. All BVR missiles have a low Pk but it is not at 0% so if you launch 2 or 3 missiles you may have a hit. And most of armies don't have more than 200 modern jets which is very low. You can buy something like 800 air to air missiles with 200 long range SAM missiles and some 200 or 300 cruise or ballistic missiles to destroy them also on the ground, you may destroy those 200 jets with only missiles.

    Loosing air superiority means loosing the war today and the few seconds of more to launch that rvv sd gives you over rvv ae could change the war.


    Could be that Egypt indeed declared them like that. I guess with su-35 they will also order some r-37. They could target Israeli AWACS from their borders.
    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21

    Posts : 64
    Points : 66
    Join date : 2016-07-17
    Location : Boston USA

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Gomig-21 on Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:First of all the RVV-AE is not the same missile it was... no doubt its design has been upgraded and improved with new parts.

    It is probably all digital by now... and to see the difference between digital and nondigital AAMs look at the American Sparrow AAM whose performance was very very average.... it was not a great missile, but the USN took it and upgraded its electronics and called it the ESSM or something and now they think it is wonderful...

    Despite opinion on this forum medium range missiles are not hittiles... a 30% to 40% kill rate against unaware targets with no self defence avionics is as good as AMRAAM is currently performing at, so the bar is not particularly high...

    They are not always right. Egypt might have declared them as being RVV AEs to put neighbours at ease...

    You know what?  I'm beginning to think that the same, usual shafting that we've been getting for the last 35 years as far as BVR weaponry is happening again, only it's being played in a different format where "certain" missiles are being delivered to the EAF but the real, potent, top of the line long range stuff such as the R-77-1 or what you guys are calling it here, the RVV-SD is being kept away thanks to Netnyahu and Putin making a deal behind closed doors and hey, the same is happening with the French Rafales.  So it's not just from Russia that Egypt is STILL being denied the critically powerful and on-par weaponry with the latest and greatest out there because look at the Indians and their Rafales.  

    Not only did they get the SCALP cruise missiles right away without the US balking and stalking, but they also received the Meteor missile which supposedly arrived a few days ago AHEAD of the Rafales being delivered to India.  While Egypt is strictly relegated to the MICA IR & ER and the SCALPS were denied at first by the US because they had that one, silly US component in them that put it into ITAR limits and so the French had to scurry to fix that.  Supposedly the 50 SCALPs for the EAF have been delivered now (according to that same source SIPRI) but we don't know for sure.  

    But we do know that we were on the waiting list for the Meteor and now, looking at India getting them before even receiving any of the aircraft themselves and now coming to the realization that Russia is also denying the EAF the better, and stronger and longer range and essentially, the more powerful BVR A2A missile, it all makes sense that we're basically back to ground zero again.  The maligned, untrustworthy, dictatorship, threat to the civilized world called Israel is not to receive the good weapons to defend itself because it has the propensity to use these weapons and attack Israel or invade other countries because God forbid, we've always done that, right?  We didn't lose Sinai TWICE because Israel was the aggressor and attacked the first time along with the UK and FRANCE!!! lol but also the second time we were the belligerents and attacked and invaded our own Sinai peninsula in 1967 looool.  

    This is just crazy and frankly so disappointing that if I was Sisi, I would make a much bigger stink about this (certainly with the French) and if the RVV-SD is coming with the Su-35, then we can simply just hope that they'll order the 2nd batch for the MiG-29Ms as the SD and not the AE.  Can you imagine if we actually see that the Su-35s are coming with the RVV-AE also?  With a 400km ERBIS-E radar and wing-mounted AESA radar and all the best of the best avionics including wingtip jamming pods and then find out we're getting the lesser grade BVR missile!?  You've got to be kidding me!

    But this is why I was also telling someone else on another forum that we should tell the French that if they don't process the Meteor now since they did for India, that we should just forget about their invitation to talk about more Rafales and just sign the mega deal with Italy for the Typhoons under the condition that not only do they include a large batch of the IRIS-T missiles, but that they guarantee the Meteor missile as well.  Start getting tough with all these purchases and not settle for the 2nd rate weapons simply because these countries are easily influenced by Israeli incorrect and neurotic pressure!
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6204
    Points : 6196
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:55 pm

    Accordig to french media, relations btw french and Sisi got hurt when Macron talked about human rights in Egypt to Sisi. No one from Egypt assisted in the delivery of french corvettes and they stoped the talks about more rafales.

    Scalp was stoped by US but french will deliver it with french components only. Also the meteor is very expensive and mica is very good.

    Concerning RVV SD it has nothing to do with Israel. More likely some technical issues (it wouldn't be thenfirst items they present for export but that isn't really ready).

    They say for a long time r37 is compatible with su-35 yet its integration started not long ago.

    Maybe they wait a foreign order (payement) to make the work for integration. Who knows ?
    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21

    Posts : 64
    Points : 66
    Join date : 2016-07-17
    Location : Boston USA

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Gomig-21 on Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:47 pm

    Isos wrote:Accordig to french media, relations btw french and Sisi got hurt when Macron talked about human rights in Egypt to Sisi. No one from Egypt assisted in the delivery of french corvettes and they stoped the talks about more rafales.

    Hey, look, the issue of human rights is a very legitimate topic that Sisi needs to deal with and confront it in the best way possible because it will always haunt him wherever he  goes and whatever he  tries to do, especially with liberal governments as you quite know very well, the Orange Baboon couldn't care less about that topic and calls him "his favorite dictator" which is such an insult as much as it is kinda funny.  But either way, if Sisi is denied some weaponry or ships because of his human rights record, then he needs to deal with that.

    But that's not the issue with the Gowind corvettes.  The problem with those was that they couldn't come up with agreeable terms for both sides.  

    And what do you mean by "No one from Egypt assisted in the delivery of french corvettes and they stoped the talks about more rafales."???  I don't understand what that means with 'assisting with the deliveries of French corvettes"?  1 corvette was built in France and shipped to Egypt and the other 3 were built in Egypt in the Alexandria shipyard by Egyptian builders as part of the ToT program with those ships.  So I don't know what you mean by 'assisting with the delivery?"

    The EAF had an option for 12 more Rafales from the original contract of 24 and we were exercising that option and then talks failed because the French didn't like the terms of financing that the EAF wanted.  That's what happened which also included another FREMM and possibly 2 or more Corvettes.

    So what happens after that?  Thissengrup from Germany swoops in and offers a huge deal for relatively reasoalble money for 6, count them bro, 6 MEKO A200 figates which we accepted and then recently, Italy also swoops in and offers the mega deal for the 2 Berghamini FREMM frigates (which are much more equipped than the French one) and the Typhoons and others.  Here's what that deal includes:

    6 Frigates including 2x confirmed FREMM Bergamini
    24 M-346 trainer jets
    24 Eurofighter Typhoon jets
    20 Falaj II OPV (Corvettes)
    1 Military Satellite

    Although there is pressure to drop this deal because of the Italian fellow who got killed in Egypt and his murder hasn't been solved and the culprits brought to justice.  But that's a separate thing since the deal was offered and the Italian parliament approved the frigates to be sent over etc.  

    So the point is that between the Germans and the Italians, it's made the French look like they're the ones who were not trying very hard to make the deal go through.  And what happens now after these deals were offered to Egypt and the tensions in Libya against Turkey and the GNA?  France is willing to open the talks on the Rafales and corvettes again!?  That's why I'm saying the EAF needs to push for the Meteor to make it a condition that if it is guaranteed, then fine.  Otherwise, stick with the other deals.

    Isos wrote:Scalp was stoped by US but french will deliver it with french components only. Also the meteor is very expensive and mica is very good.


    The cost was never the issue because Egypt ordered them.  The point is that it's arguably the best A2A missile out there ATM and it is being denied to Egypt in a very sneaky way.  And the MICA's range is no where close to that of the AIM-120C.  That's what the EAF needs, a compatible missile to the American AMRAAM.

    Isos wrote:Concerning RVV SD it has nothing to do with Israel. More likely some technical issues (it wouldn't be thenfirst items they present for export but that isn't really ready).

    They say for a long time r37 is compatible with su-35 yet its integration started not long ago.

    Maybe they wait a foreign order (payement) to make the work for integration. Who knows ?

    We saw Netanyahu sitting right next to Putin at the victory parade of 2018 I think it was, and so there is a tight relationship there and let's face it, Russia has pressure on it not to give Egypt the top of the line weapons and this, IMO happens to be one of them.  Believe me, we're very grateful that Russia has stepped up and provided all that it has, from radars to SAMs to satellites and especially the MiG-29M/35 and Su-35, but I do think they have a little pressure on them from Israel that they have to contend with and the main one is medium to long range BVR missiles.


    Last edited by Gomig-21 on Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6204
    Points : 6196
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:57 pm

    And what do you mean by "No one from Egypt assisted in the delivery of french corvettes and they stoped the talks about more rafales."??? I don't understand what that means with 'assisting with the deliveries of French corvettes"? 1 corvette was built in France and shipped to Egypt and the other 3 were built in Egypt in the Alexandria shipyard by Egyptian builders as part of the ToT program with those ships. So I don't know what you mean by 'assisting with the delivery?"

    No official was at the ceremony.

    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21

    Posts : 64
    Points : 66
    Join date : 2016-07-17
    Location : Boston USA

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Gomig-21 on Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:00 am

    Isos wrote:No official was at the ceremony.

    Oh ok. That's what you meant. That was not really a delivery that's why I was thrown off. The last 3 ships out of the 4 were built in Alexandria ship yard and the launching ceremony for the last one was not attended by the French representatives. Probably because relations had soured by then.

    It's not like we didn't buy and pay for a ton of French ships and aircraft and weapons, my goodness! They need to lighten up a little bit because it's obvious that Egypt is very well capable of paying for A LOT of stuff and for some reason it's only the French that have a bug up their ass, right?

    Russians have no problem with all the missile AD systems we've bought and more to come. 46-50 MiG-29M/M2 and another 24 Su-35 and a satellite and then the Germans have sold us 4 Type 209 submarines as well as an air defense system in the IRIS-T SLM and now they've agreed on 6 MEKO A-200 frigates and more stuff planned that is mind-blowing and then you have the mega Italian deal I've already mentioned etc. So to see the French play this silly financing game and then being also silly about certain weapons is frankly insulting and aggravating to tell you the truth.

    I'm glad Sisi shut the door and went bye-bye and many others are offering better terms for better equipment. If they had no issues giving the Indians the Meteor and we still don't have it, that's a big problem and I wouldn't be one bit surprised if the Egyptian military brass isn't royally pissed off and letting the French know it.
    ahmedfire
    ahmedfire

    Posts : 1332
    Points : 1510
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : The Land Of Pharaohs

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  ahmedfire on Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:01 am

    It seems US was working against Rafale project as it could be a threat to F-35 purchasing plans .They moved against Qatar deal too on some components but it seems France found a way to solve that .

    MBDA CEO already said the SCALP issue is solved for Egypt which received it already ,actually Egyptian requested a compensation over the delay and some sources said that Egypt took the half numbers for free for the delay of one year .

    Also Egypt has received the Talios targeting Pod ,so i don't see any reason for not receiving the Meteor , only SCALP issue was highlighted in the news not Meteor .

    Actually Egypt could purchased it quietly

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Screen21

    https://books.google.com.sa/books?id=H7I3DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=Hypersonic+Missile+Nonproliferation:+Hindering+the+Spread+of+a+New+Class+of+Weapons++meteor+missile+egypt+qatar&source=bl&ots=aa31o4qydb&sig=ACfU3U04E49PdIS5_fIFEMDPUyOHD_1wBg&hl=ar&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjdqenWuOTqAhWi4IUKHQvVCiYQ6AEwBXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Hypersonic%20Missile%20Nonproliferation%3A%20Hindering%20the%20Spread%20of%20a%20New%20Class%20of%20Weapons%20%20meteor%20missile%20egypt%20qatar&f=false


    I don't think Israel can affect Russia regarding selling arms to Egypt , we received S-300VM and Project 12421 Molniya , KH missile family ,Tor and Buk systems and long range radars and here is SU-35 and T-90.

    Gomig-21 likes this post

    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6204
    Points : 6196
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Isos on Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:08 am

    Scalp is a better purchase than meteor. They should buy a stock of at least 400 missiles. Israel can't intercept them.
    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21

    Posts : 64
    Points : 66
    Join date : 2016-07-17
    Location : Boston USA

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Gomig-21 on Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:29 am

    ahmedfire wrote:It seems US was working against Rafale project as it could be a threat to F-35 purchasing plans .They moved against Qatar deal too on some components but it seems France found a way to solve that .

    MBDA CEO already said the SCALP issue is solved for Egypt which received it already ,actually Egyptian requested a compensation over the delay and some sources said that Egypt took the half numbers for free for the delay of one year .

    Also Egypt has received the Talios targeting Pod ,so i don't see any reason for not receiving the Meteor , only SCALP issue was highlighted in the news not Meteor .

    Actually Egypt could purchased it quietly

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Screen21

    I don't know who that guy is who wrote that book, does he have credibility? His information is good? So we can take his word that we have the Meteor? Why is he the only one in the universe who knows this? lol. Just kidding with you ya basha but one has to ask these questions and question veracity of claims, no matter who it is making them.

    I know SIPRI mentioned all the 50 SCALPs were delivered, but I don't think the Talios targeting pod is for the Meteor. The Talios is for the AASM HAMMERs.

    ahmedfire wrote:I don't think Israel can affect Russia regarding selling arms to Egypt , we received S-300VM and Project 12421 Molniya , KH missile family ,Tor and Buk systems and long range radars and here is SU-35 and T-90.

    You remember the 14th of October 1973 and the battle of El Mansoura? I'm sure you do and better than me lol but that was when things really changed as far as fighting the Israelis in the air. Also accompanied by El Mansouri's MiG-21 and his partner against 6 F-4 Phantom II of the Israelis and they scored 2 Phantom kills for 0 EAF MiGs in an air battle over the Gulf of Suez I believe was on the 27th of October and Mansouri flew right into the merge head on and fired both his Atolls and shot down the lead Phantom and freaked the rest of the Israelis out where they engaged in an air battle for 13 minuted after that, scoring a 2nd hit.

    But the battle of Mansoura, when Israel launched over 50 Phantoms and Skyhawks and after 50+ minutes of aerial dogfights between 70 aircraft, the Israelis ended up losing 17 to only 3 EAF MiG-21s, 2 of which actually ran out of fuel and crash landed. That battle marked a turning point for the Israelis as far as their view of the EAF and the Egyptian army in general.

    Do you remember that one-eyed bandit Moshe Dayan and what he said after 1967? He said something like "I'll take fighting the Egyptians any day instead of talking peace or offering Sinai back to them." El khawal ebn el metnaka da lol. In other words, our fighting ability sucked ass in his eye. Well, he's lucky that those heroes flying in that Mi-8 that tried dropping a bomb by hand out of the open door over his head when he and his guard monkeys were walking through the west bank by foot checking things out in an early morning after Israel crossed the canal and the nearly killed him. They missed him by maybe 100 feet and the picture is in one of the Israeli books in color and you can see the fright in his face was like a child thinking he was going to be severely beaten by his father LOL! It was the best thing I had seen.

    Anyway, between that incident and the Mansouri MiG-21 double kill of the Israeli Phantom, but especially the 17-3 kill ratio at El Mansoura airport marked the major transition in the way the Israelis viewed the EAF's new capabilities. After that, it was all about making sure our air power would never be as good as theirs. The other items that you mentioned such as the SAMs, the radars, even the aircraft are not as serious as long as the weapons on those aircraft are not as good, then they still have the advantage. That is why the AIM-120 has been fought against by the Jewish lobby for over 3 decades and fought vehemently. Even the S-300VM when Netanyahu was asked if he was worried about that, he said (and these are his exact words) "nope, absolutely not worried about them one bit!" Now I don't know if he said that because Israel has a way to defeat the S-300VM? Or he doesn't think there will ever be a war where Israel will be facing the Egyptian air defense system and so he's not worried about it.

    However, if you think about it, what has been the ONLY type of weapon always denied to the EAF or Egypt in general? It's always been the latest and greatest A2A missiles because that is what threatens Israel the most out of all the weaponry and arsenal in our possession, because that day on the 14th of October 1973, they saw something they had never seen before and knew it was only going to get better for us and worst for their air superiority advantage. If the results were 17 enemy aircraft downed to 3 losses using the venerable MiG-21 with the worst A2A missile in the Atoll that if you didn't point the aircraft in exactly the right direction, the missile would go left, right, up, down and everywhere and anywhere but at the Israeli aircraft LOL! While the Israelis enjoyed the AIM-7P Sparrow that was a Fire & Forget even at that time! The Sparrows we have now or our F-16 are not even fire & forget because they're not active homing but semi active LOL and you still have to paint the target constantly until impact!!!!!!!! looool imagine that!? And they had the radar and seeker for the fire & forget missile way back in 1973 and we don't even have it for our 2020 F-16 LMFAO!! How ridiculous is that?

    Now you folks know why this crap is pissing me off and when I see the possibility that our Russian friends might not be giving us the better R-77, I start to wonder if even they're being influenced by these gaddam bastards! Sorry for the long post and venting, fellas.

    JohninMK likes this post

    crod
    crod

    Posts : 365
    Points : 402
    Join date : 2009-08-04

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  crod on Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:22 am

    the jews have put pressure on the russians not sell them the best missiles, you can take that to the bank. russia bent the knee to them by the look of it. shame. most unfortunate. slippery enough the russians, just like all the players i guess.
    all those trips to russia by those filthy fucks wasnt to just discuss syria, iran et-al...all sales and all manner of discussions and possible assurances provided.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25949
    Points : 26495
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:32 pm

    30% or 40% is not 0%. All BVR missiles have a low Pk but it is not at 0% so if you launch 2 or 3 missiles you may have a hit.

    30%-40% against unaware ill equipped enemies... perhaps 0% against Su-35 or Su-57 or F-35 or F-22 when properly supported by the Russian IADS and HATO infrastructure respectively...

    And most of armies don't have more than 200 modern jets which is very low. You can buy something like 800 air to air missiles with 200 long range SAM missiles and some 200 or 300 cruise or ballistic missiles to destroy them also on the ground, you may destroy those 200 jets with only missiles.

    It is not just a question of numbers of missiles... in Kosovo, those MiG-29s that got airborne would be monitored beyond their reach by AWACS which would vector in a group of interceptors to come in from a blind spot and launch an attack while distracting the MiGs with fighters from a different direction making noise and pointing radars at him. Before he knew what was happening... boom.

    Loosing air superiority means loosing the war today and the few seconds of more to launch that rvv sd gives you over rvv ae could change the war.

    Firing BVR missiles at extended range reduces their energy and ability to hit their targets effectively... AMRAAMs and Phoenix missiles fired at retreating targets have a PK near zero...

    Could be that Egypt indeed declared them like that. I guess with su-35 they will also order some r-37. They could target Israeli AWACS from their borders.

    For all we know the purchase of MiGs and RVV-AEs might be to lull the Israelis into a false sense of security... against tricky targets like cruise missiles flying low and fast over open empty territory an RVV-AE is just as good as any other medium range ARH AAM and probably cheaper... it all depends on their plans.

    You know what? I'm beginning to think that the same, usual shafting that we've been getting for the last 35 years as far as BVR weaponry is happening again, only it's being played in a different format where "certain" missiles are being delivered to the EAF but the real, potent, top of the line long range stuff such as the R-77-1 or what you guys are calling it here, the RVV-SD is being kept away thanks to Netnyahu and Putin making a deal behind closed doors and hey, the same is happening with the French Rafales. So it's not just from Russia that Egypt is STILL being denied the critically powerful and on-par weaponry with the latest and greatest out there because look at the Indians and their Rafales.

    Well for a short while I thought... Egypt screwed the Soviet Union and got in to bed with Israel and the US and they could do it again so I hope they don't sell them all their best stuff. But to be fair Egypt is buying new stuff... MiG-35s and Su-35s, and they should be allowed to get what they pay for... they might be buying old remaining stocks of RVV-AE as cheap long range ARH AAMs for cheap practise and experience to follow up with better missiles once their purchase of Su-35s has upset the apple cart and the US goes ballistic over it. Putin is many things but he respects a countrys right to defend itself... including Israel... but when Israel screws around with agreements and tries to use Russian aircraft as meat shields and it ends up killing some of Russias bestest and brightest then I think Putin is not always going to worry too much about what is in Israels bests interests.

    If he is letting Egypt by MiG-35s and Su-35s I don't believe he will restrict access to long range AAMs, I rather suspect they might be buying cheap RVV-AEs till the R-77M is ready for export.

    But we do know that we were on the waiting list for the Meteor and now, looking at India getting them before even receiving any of the aircraft themselves and now coming to the realization that Russia is also denying the EAF the better, and stronger and longer range and essentially, the more powerful BVR A2A missile, it all makes sense that we're basically back to ground zero again.

    I don't know about the European weapons but with Russian weapons most of the time you get what you pay for but the reason people don't get the best is usually they don't want to pay for it.

    For all we know the price for the RVV AE might be a clearance price while the R-77-1 might be double... the R-77M might be 20% more but with more than double the performance increase they might figure get the RVV AE now and then when the R-77M becomes ready... being a MiG-35 buyer they should be first on the list...

    With a 400km ERBIS-E radar and wing-mounted AESA radar and all the best of the best avionics including wingtip jamming pods and then find out we're getting the lesser grade BVR missile!? You've got to be kidding me!

    It would be short sighted buying a tank with all the best optics and sensors and fire control systems and the biggest gun and the best engine and the strongest armour and then buying training ammo for the gun, but your first priority when buying a new tank is to train your crews to master it first.

    Equally with SPIRI... honestly we really don't have any solid details... for all we know the RVV AE might be for use with the Ka-52K helicopters with your new Mistrals...

    They say for a long time r37 is compatible with su-35 yet its integration started not long ago.

    The R-37M was planned from the start to be compatible with all front line Russian fighters... Su-35, MiG-35, Su-57 as well as the upgraded MiG-31 of course, but the latter was the only one they actually bothered fitting it to.

    In terms of performance its main use is against enemy force multipliers like AWACS, JSTARS, inflight refuelling aircraft, Troop transports, high speed recon aircraft and of course strike/bomber aircraft like B-1B which are used for missile attacks.

    If Israel was influencing Russian sales to Egypt then they wouldn't bother trying to block AAMs, it would make more sense to block Su-35s and MiG-35s.

    Blocking AAMs can be rectified with one An-124 flight with hundreds of long range missiles on board...

    the jews have put pressure on the russians not sell them the best missiles, you can take that to the bank. russia bent the knee to them by the look of it. shame. most unfortunate. slippery enough the russians, just like all the players i guess.

    The Jews also put pressure on Russia to essentially not help Assad or Syrian air defences and I would suspect they would not want Russia selling MiG-35 and Su-35 to Egypt.

    AMRAAMs against MiG-35s and Su-35s with proper jamming equipment should mean close range dogfights with WVR AAMs and cannon fire... which would put the Russian planes at quite an advantage I would think...
    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21

    Posts : 64
    Points : 66
    Join date : 2016-07-17
    Location : Boston USA

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Gomig-21 on Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Well for a short while I thought... Egypt screwed the Soviet Union and got in to bed with Israel and the US and they could do it again so I hope they don't sell them all their best stuff.

    Ah come on, that's not fair.  There's a lot of blame that can get thrown around all over the place at everyone involved during that time and after the war etc.  But I don't ever see a shift again because those were extenuating circumstances that involved making peace and let's be honest, the US had a lot more clout during those years and in that particular theater than the Soviet Union.  

    But now, with Sisi and looking at the current paradigm, these alliances won't be strictly in favor of one or the other, but rather a cumulative consortium of friendships and alliances.  You need to look at other fields that are non-military and more economic in structure to really see how far the Egypt/Russia relations have come to, including the new nuclear reactor Russia is building and many other projects in Egypt.  So circumstance are much different now, not to mention there were major differences back then that led to what happened.


    GarryB wrote:But to be fair Egypt is buying new stuff... MiG-35s and Su-35s, and they should be allowed to get what they pay for... they might be buying old remaining stocks of RVV-AE as cheap long range ARH AAMs for cheap practise and experience to follow up with better missiles once their purchase of Su-35s has upset the apple cart and the US goes ballistic over it. Putin is many things but he respects a countrys right to defend itself... including Israel... but when Israel screws around with agreements and tries to use Russian aircraft as meat shields and it ends up killing some of Russias bestest and brightest then I think Putin is not always going to worry too much about what is in Israels bests interests.

    If anything I've learned through my 50+ years of following this history, is that Russia -- during whichever time period -- would never support a potential or current adversary of Israel to the point where that support could be the cause of its defeat.  I think Putin plays that same, safe role and will provide defensive armament as much as possible but will certainly pull the plug on offensive equipment that could alter the qualitative military edge that Israel has enjoyed and continues to enjoy.  Meaning that even if they sell the MiG-35 and the Su-35, they still won't arm them to the point where they can actually take down Israel's F-35s or be capable of mounting an offensive attack into Israel that might be needed to reverse an Israeli offensive.  An attack on Israel is not only a means to launch an unprovoked attack, but especially a provoked one.  This is one of the reasons why the SCALP was originally stopped by the US.

    It's also not really just against Israel.  Egypt needs to be militarily capable of defending itself against anyone to the best of its ability.  If you look at the current situation, Israel is hardly in the picture as far as Egypt is concerned.  If we look around and see what others get for equipment, it's not difficult to see that still, to this day, Egypt is limited.  For example, everyone who has the F-16 has the AIM-120 except Egypt and  Iraq.  Even Jordan!  Who is right next door to Israel has the AIM-120 for its  F-16s.    

    GarryB wrote:If he is letting Egypt by MiG-35s and Su-35s I don't believe he will restrict access to long range AAMs, I rather suspect they might be buying cheap RVV-AEs till the R-77M is ready for export.

    First of all, there are too many gaddam names for these Russian missiles!!!  Is the R-77M the same as the RVV-SD?  If so, are you saying that the RVV-SD is not yet ready for export?  If that's the case, then that makes sense to not see them on the EAF birds. Kinda the same situation as the Meteor but I think that's a load of steaming dung TBH.  If the Swedes, Italians, Brits, Germans and Spaniards are operating the Meteor (and supposedly now India is as well), then why aren't Saudi Arabia and especially Egypt?  Kinda ticks one off to tell you the truth.  Something fishy is going on.

    GarryB wrote:I don't know about the European weapons but with Russian weapons most of the time you get what you pay for but the reason people don't get the best is usually they don't want to pay for it.

    That's definitely not the issue since they've been ordered and Egypt, along with Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Brasil and quite a few other countries are waiting for deliveries.

    GarryB wrote:For all we know the price for the RVV AE might be a clearance price while the R-77-1 might be double... the R-77M might be 20% more but with more than double the performance increase they might figure get the RVV AE now and then when the R-77M becomes ready... being a MiG-35 buyer they should be first on the list...

    I'm confused with all these friggin numbers and names LOL!  Can we just use one or the other?  Either R-77-1 or RVV-SD?  I'm assuming those two are the same?  

    GarryB wrote:It would be short sighted buying a tank with all the best optics and sensors and fire control systems and the biggest gun and the best engine and the strongest armour and then buying training ammo for the gun, but your first priority when buying a new tank is to train your crews to master it first.

    That makes a lot of sense.  That could very well be the case.  But let me ask you, would 300 units or missiles be too much for that training purpose considering there are 46 aircraft to use those weapons?  That's a lot of loot, too.  So a lot of money being spent on practice rounds, so to speak and isn't there other, cheaper and equally as effective ways to train in BVR engagement without wasting 300 missiles?

    GarryB wrote:Equally with SPIRI... honestly we really don't have any solid details... for all we know the RVV AE might be for use with the Ka-52K helicopters with your new Mistrals...

    Well, we don't have the Katrans, yet.  So if you meant the Nile Crocodiles, that could be the case even though the only aircraft we've seen carrying those missiles has been the MiG-35.  

    GarryB wrote:The R-37M was planned from the start to be compatible with all front line Russian fighters... Su-35, MiG-35, Su-57 as well as the upgraded MiG-31 of course, but the latter was the only one they actually bothered fitting it to.

    In terms of performance its main use is against enemy force multipliers like AWACS, JSTARS, inflight refuelling aircraft, Troop transports, high speed recon aircraft and of course strike/bomber aircraft like B-1B which are used for missile attacks.

    If the R-37M shows up in the EAF, then I'll take everything back!  Even at only 300km range, that is about as potent as any BVR missile out there and so it would change the dynamics completely.

    GarryB wrote:If Israel was influencing Russian sales to Egypt then they wouldn't bother trying to block AAMs, it would make more sense to block Su-35s and MiG-35s.

    They might've already tried that and failed.  Putin might've told Netanyahu "hey, listen, we're trying to make some money here and we need to sell this aircraft to as many customers as possible to fund our programs and if you don't want us to sell them, then you need to make up for the $2.1 billion in money we would lose from this deal.  Then Netanyahu compromises and says "ok, how about not selling them the long range BVR missile to still give us the edge?"  Putin says "now that I can do."  I don't know, I hope that's not the case but it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

    GarryB wrote:AMRAAMs against MiG-35s and Su-35s with proper jamming equipment should mean close range dogfights with WVR AAMs and cannon fire... which would put the Russian planes at quite an advantage I would think...

    Probably against most AFs out there, but against the Israelis with their HMCS and all their technological superiority in avionics and things of that sort, it would still be a hard nut to crack.


    Last edited by Gomig-21 on Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total
    crod
    crod

    Posts : 365
    Points : 402
    Join date : 2009-08-04

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  crod on Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:40 am

    GarryB wrote:


    If Israel was influencing Russian sales to Egypt then they wouldn't bother trying to block AAMs, it would make more sense to block Su-35s and MiG-35s.

    Though we’ll most likely never know, I’d suggest that you’re well wide of the mark here. They absolutely would’ve tried but failed because Russia needs the sales but absolutely caved with the missiles; it was essentially a x 2 win for Russia when you look at it from that perspective.

    Russian systems in Syria have nothing to do with Syria but everything to do with protecting Russians. Why else is israel attacking Syria with ease, so your assumption here is incorrect also imo.


    Last edited by crod on Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Syntax)
    ahmedfire
    ahmedfire

    Posts : 1332
    Points : 1510
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : The Land Of Pharaohs

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  ahmedfire on Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:15 am

    I don't know who that guy is who wrote that book, does he have credibility? His information is good? So we can take his word that we have the Meteor? Why is he the only one in the universe who knows this? lol. Just kidding with you ya basha but one has to ask these questions and question veracity of claims, no matter who it is making them.

    I hope it's true ya basha  Smile

    latribune mentioned the Meteor issue has been solved , from April-2019 .

    According to our information, the United States has lifted the blockade, which it imposed via ITAR regulations, on France on the export to Egypt of the Meteor air-to-air missile, which the army of the United States greatly likes
    https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/industrie/aeronautique-defense/armement-mais-qu-est-ce-qui-se-passe-entre-la-france-et-l-egypte-815119.html

    I know SIPRI mentioned all the 50 SCALPs were delivered, but I don't think the Talios targeting pod is for the Meteor. The Talios is for the AASM HAMMERs.

    I know but most of these equipments have a US components , if the released the SCALP and the pod , probably they did the same for meteor .

    You remember the 14th of October 1973 and the battle of El Mansoura? I'm sure you do and better than me lol but that was when things really changed as far as fighting the Israelis in the air. Also accompanied by El Mansouri's MiG-21 and his partner against 6 F-4 Phantom II of the Israelis and they scored 2 Phantom kills for 0 EAF MiGs in an air battle over the Gulf of Suez I believe was on the 27th of October and Mansouri flew right into the merge head on and fired both his Atolls and shot down the lead Phantom and freaked the rest of the Israelis out where they engaged in an air battle for 13 minuted after that, scoring a 2nd hit.
    Israel took many lessons on YK war , from ATGMs to SAMs to ASMs.They are trying to have the upper hand on such systems but they don't have the capacity for a long war with Egypt .

    Now you folks know why this crap is pissing me off and when I see the possibility that our Russian friends might not be giving us the better R-77, I start to wonder if even they're being influenced by these gaddam bastards! Sorry for the long post and venting, fellas.

    Just check the KH-31 , it wasn't mentioned by any source that Egypt purchased it but we figured it out from a photo . if Egypt has any issue arming it's mig-35 ,it wouldn't go for Su-35 by anyway .Of course Russia is happy that EAF is turning it's compass to the Russian platforms ,Egypt is a big market .

    "I'll take fighting the Egyptians any day instead of talking peace or offering Sinai back to them." El khawal ebn el metnaka da lol.
    lol1  lol1


    Last edited by ahmedfire on Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Gomig-21 likes this post

    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21

    Posts : 64
    Points : 66
    Join date : 2016-07-17
    Location : Boston USA

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Gomig-21 on Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:36 am

    ahmedfire wrote:

    I hope it's true ya basha  Smile

    latribune mentioned the Meteor issue has been solved , from April-2019 .

    According to our information, the United States has lifted the blockade, which it imposed via ITAR regulations, on France on the export to Egypt of the Meteor air-to-air missile, which the army of the United States greatly likes
    https://www..fr/entreprises-finance/industrie/aeronautique-defense/armement-mais-qu-est-ce-qui-se-passe-entre-la-france-et-l-egypte-815119.html

    Mr. Ahmedfire, could you kindly fix that link, please? Currently not working maybe it's not fully copied or pasted. I'd really like to read it. Thank you, sir.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25949
    Points : 26495
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:38 pm

    Ah come on, that's not fair. There's a lot of blame that can get thrown around all over the place at everyone involved during that time and after the war etc.

    I am not criticising Egypt... at the time it suited your interests...

    But I don't ever see a shift again because those were extenuating circumstances that involved making peace and let's be honest, the US had a lot more clout during those years and in that particular theater than the Soviet Union.

    I am not saying it was right or wrong... the conflict of the time between the Soviets and the Americans really meant nothing to Egypt...

    But now, with Sisi and looking at the current paradigm, these alliances won't be strictly in favor of one or the other, but rather a cumulative consortium of friendships and alliances. You need to look at other fields that are non-military and more economic in structure to really see how far the Egypt/Russia relations have come to, including the new nuclear reactor Russia is building and many other projects in Egypt. So circumstance are much different now, not to mention there were major differences back then that led to what happened.

    Lots of countries try to do this... the US usually gets upset that you continue to trade with Russia and buy their weapons instead of buying all American stuff and you will get sanctions and ultimatums...


    If anything I've learned through my 50+ years of following this history, is that Russia -- during whichever time period -- would never support a potential or current adversary of Israel to the point where that support could be the cause of its defeat.

    I agree, but probably think it is more to do with the fear of what the US or Israel herself might do with their nuclear weapons if faced to overwhelming military threats from all sides... the ME glowing is not in any ones interests...

    Meaning that even if they sell the MiG-35 and the Su-35, they still won't arm them to the point where they can actually take down Israel's F-35s or be capable of mounting an offensive attack into Israel that might be needed to reverse an Israeli offensive.

    As far as Russia is concerned the weapons a customer buys are theirs and they can do with them as they please... quite a few Kornet missiles they have sold to various countries in the ME ended up being used against Israeli Merkavas. Not sure that Russia did anything concrete to stop that directly, though I am sure some of the places the Israelis bomb include warehouses with very similarly shaped containers...

    An attack on Israel is not only a means to launch an unprovoked attack, but especially a provoked one. This is one of the reasons why the SCALP was originally stopped by the US.

    Hang on evidence of the US restricting and controlling what Egypt can get and can use is not evidence in any regard that is relate-able to Russia.

    For example, everyone who has the F-16 has the AIM-120 except Egypt and Iraq. Even Jordan! Who is right next door to Israel has the AIM-120 for its F-16s.

    Perhaps they see them as easier to defeat so their missiles wont get to be a problem, whereas Egypt has a much larger force and is probably better organised and trained.


    First of all, there are too many gaddam names for these Russian missiles!!! Is the R-77M the same as the RVV-SD?

    No.

    The original RVV-AE is the first R-77. They upgraded it and Russianised it and generally improved its performance in the R-77-1 which is the current standard Russian AF model right now... the export version is called RVV-SD. The R-77M and the R-77PD are the two extended range models.. the former with an enlarged and improved rocket motor and the latter using a combined rocket ramjet propulsion like Meteor... both supposed to have flight ranges of 200km+.

    The R-77-1 or RVV-SD has a range of about 110km... the R-77 about 80km or so.

    If the Swedes, Italians, Brits, Germans and Spaniards are operating the Meteor (and supposedly now India is as well), then why aren't Saudi Arabia and especially Egypt? Kinda ticks one off to tell you the truth. Something fishy is going on.

    Jobs for the boys is great when you are one of the boys... from the outside it just seems unfair... but they are not going to change that for you.


    I'm confused with all these friggin numbers and names LOL! Can we just use one or the other? Either R-77-1 or RVV-SD? I'm assuming those two are the same?

    They refer to the domestic (R-77-1) and the export (RVV-SD) models which are not identical, but basically the same. Technically RVV-SD is more accurate talking about missiles for Egypt or India.


    That makes a lot of sense. That could very well be the case. But let me ask you, would 300 units or missiles be too much for that training purpose considering there are 46 aircraft to use those weapons? That's a lot of loot, too. So a lot of money being spent on practice rounds, so to speak and isn't there other, cheaper and equally as effective ways to train in BVR engagement without wasting 300 missiles?

    There will be captive dummy missiles with no motor but a real seeker and other bits so you can go through the process of sending the appropriate intercept info to the missile and pretend firing and the conditions at launch can be used to determine how likely a hit would be.

    During training you want pilots to experience at least one real missile launch, so 3-4 pilots per aircraft... that means with about 50 aircraft 150-200 odd real missile launches... the point is that training continues for the life of the aircraft as new pilots go through training so over the next 5 years they might go through more than 300... on your border with Libya such missiles could also be used against threats and drones if needed... they are certainly not useless but they are not that expensive either.

    I am just guessing... they might be base missile stocks for the MiGs and the Sukhois and when they buy their Su-35s they might get 1,000 RVV-SDs for the Flankers and the Fulcrums... and their Ka-52Ks...

    In fact it would be ideal for them as being fired from a low altitude and low speed helicopter they are not going to reach more than 20-30km anyway... their CM wave AESA radars should be able to track air targets from pretty significant distances too including down to sea level.

    If the R-37M shows up in the EAF, then I'll take everything back! Even at only 300km range, that is about as potent as any BVR missile out there and so it would change the dynamics completely.

    You wont get the 320+km range R-37M, but you should be able to buy the RVV-BD which is the export model... why have an export model if it is not for export...

    And another thing... what you get now does not in any way restrict what you can buy in the future... they might buy a batch of RVV-AEs and a batch of RVV-SDs, and then when the R-77M is ready for export they might buy them and come to the conclusion that price wise RVV-AE and R-77M gives the best bank for buck... or they might decide the R-77M is the best so we will just buy that.... or any combination...

    They might've already tried that and failed.

    I am sure they have. Israel and her supporters are not joined at the hip... I am sure various supporters have suggested to Russia that they shouldn't just sell all their best stuff because Israel will learn to defeat it and share that with everyone and it will become useless.... but Russian kit didn't get good in a vacuum... it was tested in combat in various places and improvements came from combat testing... so actually seeing how Israel try to deal with Russian gear is useful because it shows then how HATO might try to deal with their stuff too, so they can develop counter counter measures.

    So far in Syria the tactic is to rely on stand off weapons and intel to find weakspots... despite having F-35s...

    Then Netanyahu compromises and says "ok, how about not selling them the long range BVR missile to still give us the edge?" Putin says "now that I can do." I don't know, I hope that's not the case but it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

    Are you going to suggest that is highly likely?

    AFAIK the Russian AF never bought the RVV-AE in any great numbers... it started as a cold war project and a lot of components were Ukrainian. The current models being sold have been Russianised but for all we know they might have had stocks of the RVV-AE they wanted to get rid of so made an offer in conjunction with the aircraft purchase...


    Who knows...


    Probably against most AFs out there, but against the Israelis with their HMCS and all their technological superiority in avionics and things of that sort, it would still be a hard nut to crack.

    They have very talented pilots... but the MiG-35 and Su-35 are very manouverable planes and with thrust vectoring engines I don't think any western fighter could beat them all other things being equal.

    The MiG-29 old 1980s model had a special fire control system where you looked at your target with your helmet mounted sight monocle on your helmet to get a lock which slaved your IR guided missiles seeker to where you were looking so it didn't have to scan its full field of view to find the target... it looked where you looked... but the IRST also looked and could lock and the radar also looked and could lock. In close in combat the IRSTs wide field of view and tracking speed meant in a dogfight you used that to lock the target... the laser range finder was for air targets out to about 8km and was used to precisely determine range.

    If you were in a dog fight a aiming reticule appeared in your HUD and you manouvered the aircraft to put the aim point on the target... all the while with your finger pulling the firing trigger. The gun would not fire a shot until the gun was aligned perfectly and a hit was guaranteed... in training with drones MiG pilots reported the gun would fire a burst of 3-7 rounds and then stop but the targets will getting hit with most of those rounds and were being destroyed.

    The early MiGs had 150 rounds for the 30mm cannon... the MiG-35 has about 70 rounds because it is so accurate...

    With TVC engines you can swing your nose around any direction you want and hose down multiple opponents at a time...

    Russian systems in Syria have nothing to do with Syria but everything to do with protecting Russians. Why else is israel attacking Syria with ease, so your assumption here is incorrect also imo.

    Israel is not attacking Syria with ease... the targets protected by air defence systems generally stop most of the weapons used in the attacks.... occasionally a warehouse gets hit... they certainly make a lot of claims.

    Though we’ll most likely never know, I’d suggest that you’re well wide of the mark here. They absolutely would’ve tried but failed because Russia needs the sales but absolutely caved with the missiles; it was essentially a x 2 win for Russia when you look at it from that perspective.

    Of course they would try to block all Russian weapon sales, but what are you basing your claim they caved in over missiles?

    .Of course Russia is happy that EAF is turning it's compass to the Russian platforms ,Egypt is a big market .

    And a country that does not support terrorist groups in Syria and Afghanistan etc etc...

    ahmedfire and Gomig-21 like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25949
    Points : 26495
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:43 pm


    Mr. Ahmedfire, could you kindly fix that link, please? Currently not working maybe it's not fully copied or pasted. I'd really like to read it. Thank you, sir.

    If that happens again just select the right hand portion of the address to the first / as that is essentially the name of the page and do a google search.

    At the start of the address it has www  so it is world wide web, but it just has some dots and fr meaning a website in France.

    Searching the web for the article page resulted in the page coming up... the missing bit is

    https://www.latribune.fr

    So click on the original link and highlight the first part up to the / after fr and paste the above and it should work...

    It is of course in French so:

    https://translate.yandex.com/

    if you need it....

    Gomig-21 likes this post

    ahmedfire
    ahmedfire

    Posts : 1332
    Points : 1510
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : The Land Of Pharaohs

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  ahmedfire on Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:03 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:

    Mr. Ahmedfire, could you kindly fix that link, please?  Currently not working maybe it's not fully copied or pasted.  I'd really like to read it.  Thank you, sir.

    Oh sorry bro , i edited my post .

    Here is the source

    https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/industrie/aeronautique-defense/armement-mais-qu-est-ce-qui-se-passe-entre-la-france-et-l-egypte-815119.html

    Gomig-21 likes this post

    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21

    Posts : 64
    Points : 66
    Join date : 2016-07-17
    Location : Boston USA

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Gomig-21 on Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:18 pm

    Thank you guys, GarryB and Ahmedfire I got that link to work.  Good info.

    GarryB wrote:

    No.

    The original RVV-AE is the first R-77. They upgraded it and Russianised it and generally improved its performance in the R-77-1 which is the current standard Russian AF model right now... the export version is called RVV-SD. The R-77M and the R-77PD are the two extended range models.. the former with an enlarged and improved rocket motor and the latter using a combined rocket ramjet propulsion like Meteor... both supposed to have flight ranges of 200km+.

    The R-77-1 or RVV-SD has a range of about 110km... the R-77 about 80km or so.

    Ok, now that I think I understand all these designations for the R-77, I think what you're saying is that the R-77-1 which is the Russian missile in use by the VVS only with it's export version in the RVV-SD are pretty much similar with the exception of some stuff but essentially both are medium to long range missiles with a max range of 110 km?  If so, this is essentially THE Russian equivalent to the AIM-120 C7, also the longest range export American AMRAAM.  

    If that is the case, do we know if the RVV-SD is being exported or is it not ready yet?  I believe you said earlier that it wasn't and that might be why India as well as Egypt ordered the RVV-AE until the SD is ready and then they will purchase that?  Is this the correct line of thinking?

    If so, are there any inclinations as to when the RVV-SD might be ready for export?

    In the meantime, I sure as heck hope to see the R-27 in both its export forms (what are they, the long burn and the short burn?) come with these new EAF Su-35SE.  If we don't see any R-27s, oh man, what a major bum out that will be.  It's almost like that missile is synonymous with the Flanker family of jets.  It's like an intricate part of its anatomy! lol

    These are looking really sweet, BTW.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6204
    Points : 6196
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Isos on Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:00 pm

    US have the AIM-120D with 140-150km range. Europeans have the meteor, which range isn't known, but some say it is greater than 200km. US have a programme for a similar ramjet missile called something like AIM-260.

    Russia has now the r-77M with a range of 200km and is integrating the r-37M on its su-35.

    Even the RVV-SD is becoming too short. It's a matter of time before Israel get one of them since their f-35 can carry the aim120D and the new US missile and UK asked for the integration of the meteor which they may sell to Israel.

    Egypt needs to buy 200 or so r37M for its su-35 and ask for r-77M possibility.

    RVV-SD is offered for export but not all russian jets can carry it. Indian su-30MKI need an upgrade to use them.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25949
    Points : 26495
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:35 am

    If that is the case, do we know if the RVV-SD is being exported or is it not ready yet? I believe you said earlier that it wasn't and that might be why India as well as Egypt ordered the RVV-AE until the SD is ready and then they will purchase that? Is this the correct line of thinking?

    The RVV-SD is the medium range version of the R-77-1 designed specifically for export and has been exported AFAIK.

    The R-77M is probably close to entering Russian AF service... by now, but when it will be released for export is unknown.

    The ramjet powered model being developed in competition with the M improved rocket motor model was cancelled, but I suspect not because they couldn't get it to work... more because most of the problems with a ramjet powered missile are the same as with a scramjet powered missile but the latter offers much better performance potential...

    If so, are there any inclinations as to when the RVV-SD might be ready for export?

    RVV-SD has been ready for export for a few years now... both their export website and the website of the company that makes it shows them available...

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-to-air-missile/rvv-sd/

    http://eng.ktrv.ru/production/military_production/air-to-air_missiles/rvv-sd.html

    In the meantime, I sure as heck hope to see the R-27 in both its export forms (what are they, the long burn and the short burn?) come with these new EAF Su-35SE.

    The Su-35 will have a rather powerful and capable radar, which actually makes sense to use SARH missiles against a variety of targets where you can take advantage of the performance of the nose mounted radar and its ECCM capacity and power. And of course the missiles will be much more affordable too.

    Russia has now the r-77M with a range of 200km and is integrating the r-37M on its su-35.

    The R-77M and R-74M and object 800 are optimised for internal weapon bays for aircraft like the new light twin engined MiG fighter and the Su-57...

    If range was actually critical then the US would have modified the Phoenix to be able to be carried by the F-22...

    Long range means bigger heavier missile which often struggle against manouverable targets.

    Egypt needs to buy 200 or so r37M for its su-35 and ask for r-77M possibility.

    The 320km range R-37M is not for export... the 220km range RVV-BD will be compatible with both MiG-35 and Su-35.

    RVV-SD is offered for export but not all russian jets can carry it. Indian su-30MKI need an upgrade to use them.

    Russian upgraded aircraft can use it.

    The Indians were interested in fitting French and Israeli and Indian components in their aircraft rather more than upgrading the aircraft to take future Russian weapons.

    Many Russian aircraft still carry R-27 which is flexible and not a bad missile... there are probably more than 30 different types and options with this weapon family... you could probably write a book.
    medo
    medo

    Posts : 3915
    Points : 3999
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  medo on Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:13 am

    GarryB wrote:Russian upgraded aircraft can use it.

    The Indians were interested in fitting French and Israeli and Indian components in their aircraft rather more than upgrading the aircraft to take future Russian weapons.

    Many Russian aircraft still carry R-27 which is flexible and not a bad missile... there are probably more than 30 different types and options with this weapon family... you could probably write a book.

    India make a mess with installing too many foreign components in their Su-30MKI and taking out original Russian stuff as IFDL and data links. Indian Su-30MKI is inferior now to Chinese Su-30MKK. India can not install new RVV-SD to their Su-30MKI, so now they are making their own Astra missile with the same old ARH from R-77 missile. Su-30MKI have only Russian radar Bars-M and IRST. Central computer is Indian and other electronics is from France and Israel. To Install RVV-SD, they need Russian codes for the missiles and codes from France and Israel for their electronic components, that they could install the missile. Russia is not ready to give their codes to the West and West is not ready to give their codes to the Russians. Case closed for India.
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6204
    Points : 6196
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Isos on Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:20 am

    The R-77M and R-74M and object 800 are optimised for internal weapon bays for aircraft like the new light twin engined MiG fighter and the Su-57...

    If range was actually critical then the US would have modified the Phoenix to be able to be carried by the F-22...

    Long range means bigger heavier missile which often struggle against manouverable targets.

    If they can fit in weapon bay they will have no problem using them on su-35.

    You are quite wrong here. US is developing a long range missile.

    New long range missiles are not heavy, they are developed from MRAAM missiles with better fuel/engines: meteor, R-77M, aim-120D. They are all better than older long range missiles. Trust vectoring is also giving them better manoeuvrability than before.

    Long range missiles are now very long range missile : r-33 --> r-37.
    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21

    Posts : 64
    Points : 66
    Join date : 2016-07-17
    Location : Boston USA

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Gomig-21 on Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-to-air-missile/rvv-sd/

    http://eng.ktrv.ru/production/military_production/air-to-air_missiles/rvv-sd.html

    That's a pretty decent link showing the SD and even the AE.  Looks like the only tangible difference is the SD has those 3 black circle/dots about 1/3 of the way in from the tip, while the AE is a clean body all the way through.  The SD might also be a little beefier.  But I think that's only noticeable if you have them side by side.

    This one on the EAF MiG-35 doesn't appear to have those black dots on the missiles but then again, these might be inert?  The all-red color on the Kh-31 probably indicates an inert missile for testing but nothing showing the R-77 to be inert in this case.

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Article_5c169f5bb4e999_68927960

    Sponsored content

    Egyptian Air Force (EAF) - Page 9 Empty Re: Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:03 pm