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    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:04 pm

    It is also about numbers.

    With no armour anything can hurt you... fragments, bullets etc, but at the other end there is no level of armour that will protect you from anything and once you invent your armour your enemy is going to start to find ways to defeat it so even if you are protected you are likely only safe for a short period of time before they work on a solution.

    The BTR series of vehicles were made fun of because of their light armour, but even their light armour was better than riding in the back of 2 ton trucks... it comes down to value for money.

    They could have gone with tank level protection but that would be too expensive so most would end up walking which means you lose mobility which was a serious problem for the Germans in WWII. It might look like the Germans were a fully mechanised force but the tank forces were mechanised their infantry was not and nor was most of their artillery... which is why they had Stukas... the only artillery they had that could keep up with their tanks.

    The point is that a BTR-60 protected them from small arms fire coming from a distance, it made them very mobile and it had a turret with machine guns the equivalent of a light cannon. On a scale it didn't protect from a whole lot but it was cheap enough for everyone they couldn't put in a BMP to have one so they were actually fully mechanised much faster than the west was. (in significant sized armies obviously.... a small force like the New Zealand Army could be all mechanised easily because there are only 5,000 soldiers...).

    Things like ERA and APS were solutions to the problems of defeating rather heavy weapons without having to resort to super heavy armour, and they were clever solutions that could be applied fairly easily and were effective against the vast majority of weapons tanks will face... RPGs and ATGMs... but not so good for IEDs. But there are other things for those...

    The point is that the advantage of the BTR was not its armour, but the other things it brought.... mobility and fire power and speed, with more protection than they would get from a truck, but at a price rather similar to that of a truck so you could afford to replace the troop transport role of the truck with something that was amphibious and armoured and armed. It was no MRAP but photos of them with missing wheels in Afghanistan show they can take a hit and keep moving...

    In the case of these vehicles even if it just means the enemy see the vehicle and have to take some time to work out where a weak spot might be to launch an attack might mean they don't end up with time for a shot, or they pick a bad place to shoot at in panic.
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    Post  George1 Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:14 pm

    The tactics of conducting oncoming combat and through attacks were improved by the crews of the T-72B3 tanks of the Western Military District during an exercise at the Golovenki training ground near Moscow.


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    Post  Mir Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:59 pm

    The video shows T-80's. Still nice though Smile

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    Post  walle83 Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:18 pm



    Large exercise with land and air power. T-72 with BMP-2 can be seen from the middle of the clip.

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    Post  George1 Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:49 pm

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    Post  andalusia Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:29 am

    I see that Serbian has a variant tank based on the T 72; what do you guys think of it?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-84AS

    Can it stand up to any western tanks and why doesn't Serbian try to export it?
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    Post  lancelot Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:02 am

    You should find more information somewhere on this forum. But Yugoslavia had a T-72 tank license. They used this to make the M-84 tank. However the production of components was spread all over Yugoslavia. After Yugoslavia collapsed the production found itself in separate countries. Which do not have the best relations to put it mildly. So any such production by Serbia would likely need to use a lot of imported Russian components.
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    Post  AlfaT8 Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:54 am

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    Post  AlfaT8 Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:05 pm

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    Post  diabetus Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:42 am

    Any future variant must receive an improved transmission with a good reverse speed and CITV to become much more survivable.
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    Post  marcellogo Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:16 pm

    diabetus wrote:Any future variant must receive an improved transmission with a good reverse speed and CITV to become much more survivable.

    They should have it but there will be not any future variant of T-72, production is definitively switched on T-90 and applying such modification on a legacy chassis would cost more than what will is required into upgrading it to B3M standard.

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    Post  diabetus Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:14 pm

    marcellogo wrote:
    diabetus wrote:Any future variant must receive an improved transmission with a good reverse speed and CITV to become much more survivable.

    They should have it but there will be not any future variant of T-72, production is definitively switched on T-90 and applying such modification on a legacy chassis would cost more than what will is required into upgrading it to B3M standard.

    I was referring to any future improvement to the B3 upgrade.
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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:55 pm

    Refinement of T-72B3M tanks at Uralvagonzavod.

    External changes T-72B3M "sample 2022":
    1 - Added dynamic protection to the fenders in the area of ​​the sloths like the T-90M.
    2 - Added dynamic protection on the gun mask.
    3 - Added dynamic protection to the tower.
    4 - Unknown sensors.
    5 - The mechanism for opening the armored curtains of the thermal imaging sight.

    @milinfolive

    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants - Page 32 Img_2066
    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants - Page 32 Img_2067

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    Post  diabetus Sat Nov 05, 2022 8:58 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:Refinement of T-72B3M tanks at Uralvagonzavod.

    External changes T-72B3M "sample 2022":
    1 - Added dynamic protection to the fenders in the area of ​​the sloths like the T-90M.
    2 - Added dynamic protection on the gun mask.
    3 - Added dynamic protection to the tower.
    4 - Unknown sensors.
    5 - The mechanism for opening the armored curtains of the thermal imaging sight.

    @milinfolive

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    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants - Page 32 Img_2067

    Totally insufficient upgrade. It should receive CITV and an updated transmission with more reverse gears more than anything else.

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:16 pm

    diabetus wrote:

    Totally insufficient upgrade. It should receive CITV and an updated transmission with more reverse gears more than anything else.

    This is just an ad hoc upgrade to increase protection. If they have to change transmission with everything that goes with it, better to make completely new tanks.

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    Post  diabetus Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:23 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    diabetus wrote:

    Totally insufficient upgrade. It should receive CITV and an updated transmission with more reverse gears more than anything else.

    This is just an ad hoc upgrade to increase protection. If they have to change transmission with everything that goes with it, better to make completely new tanks.

    Wouldn't be a huge deal if the t-90M could get the same one.
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    Post  limb Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:06 am

    If its about improving protection, why not add relikt and applique armor under it?

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    Post  galicije83 Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:09 am

    They need active protection systems like Arena M, or Drozd 2 or Afganit...ERA this is enough for any threat against apfsd fired from tanks. They just need to put ERA blocks batter to protect more of the lover part of the turret. We have tanks destroyed by another tank with shots missed ERA and go under neet them...

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    Post  diabetus Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:09 pm

    Can't help by restate that the t-72B3 would be incredibly more capable/survivable if it had 1. Modern transmission 2. CITV 3. Battle Management system
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:45 pm

    If the T-72B3 had all the bells and whistles added to it they probably wouldn't afford as much as they did.

    And they would have to draw deeper into the obsolete legacy Soviet T-80/72/64 stocks, and people would still be complaining.

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    Post  diabetus Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:30 pm

    lyle6 wrote:If the T-72B3 had all the bells and whistles added to it they probably wouldn't afford as much as they did.

    And they would have to draw deeper into the obsolete legacy Soviet T-80/72/64 stocks, and people would still be complaining.

    A modern transmission isn't a super expensive addition.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:08 am

    It is if it turns out to be unreliable and gets soldiers killed.
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    Post  galicije83 Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:03 pm

    diabetus wrote:

    A modern transmission isn't a super expensive addition.

    Well you can put just modern transmission on engine compartment.. You need to change it, and that cost most time, you do not have it right now....

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    Post  diabetus Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:06 pm

    galicije83 wrote:
    diabetus wrote:

    A modern transmission isn't a super expensive addition.

    Well you can put just modern transmission on engine compartment.. You need to change it, and that cost most time, you do not have it right now....

    Sure you can, other t-72 operators managed to figure it out years ago. If not, great, you'll keep losing them when they turn around to escape artillery and are then hit in weak armor.
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:07 am

    diabetus wrote:
    Sure you can, other t-72 operators managed to figure it out years ago. If not, great, you'll keep losing them when they turn around to escape artillery and are then hit in weak armor.
    Not only is this not true at all - the armor on the back of the T-72 is 80 mm thick steel plate; no fragmentation is going to pierce that.

    But you're supposing an edge case situation which by definition rarely happens at all. The Russians when going on an offensive, make it a point to assemble at least a 3:1 advantage in artillery, closer to 10:1 in practice given the need to compensate their small infantry complement with firepower. That way there is plenty enough guns to smother defenses and more importantly silence enemy guns at the same time.

    Now that, is how you solve the problem, not by giving the tanks a couple seconds of head-start - like what happens to everyone else they left behind lol, do they just die?

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