T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants

TR1 wrote:One estimate for T-72B3 numbers from Otvaga: 684 tanks since 2012.

Double checked, apparently not an inflated number, through 2014 that is.

George1 wrote:Motorized Infantry Brigade in Russia’s Kemerovo Region Gets 15 T-72B3 Tanks

A motorized infantry brigade in Russia's Kemerovo Region received 15 modernized T-72B3 tanks.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – A motorized infantry brigade in Russia's Kemerovo Region has received 15 modernized T-72B3 tanks, official representative of the Central Military District Col. Yaroslav Roschupkin announced.


Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150316/1019539681.html#ixzz3UZSSiquj

Kemerovo? I've been here, i'll try to pay a visit to the military base next time then....


Rather far from anything (ie far from any hot spot), but this brigade could be used in the closeby khazakstan or other friendly country if they have internal problems. Or if any of those country wants to invade russia by altai mountains somehow... who knows what kind of madness might happen.

Werewolf wrote:

KomissarBojanchev wrote:TR1 is just a nationally self hating euroatlanticist neoliberal who can't accept post yeltsin russia does something right, but still has a speck of decency not to be openly calling for russian submission to the western empires.

Because if he openly would say that in russia, he would already have lost a few teeth for such garbage, especially as a non russian like the majority of 5th columnists.

Guys,

There is a new thread at https://www.russiadefence.net/t3916-forum-non-technical-issues to discuss these topics.

TR1 wrote:I have openly said EVERYTHING I say here, in Russia. Believe it or not not all Russians are patriotic retards like you non-Russian foreigners.

I'm not a patriotic retard.

flamming_python wrote:I really don't want to get myself involved in all the epic dick-swinging contests on this site between TR1 and everyone else - but in TR1s defense; critisizing the Russian government and leaders does not neccesserily equate to cheering on the US's government either, and its adventures around the world.
It's you guys who are constantly making this connection here, based on what I don't know - but it reflects worse on you than on anyone else when you accuse anyone who has words of critisism for the Russian government - of being some US apologist or whatever.

Couldn't have said it better myself. TR1 seems to really hate the Russian government and certain social issues in the country. However, it's pretty clear to me that he doesn't hate Russia, Russians, Russian technology or Russian military equipment. And his expertise is undeniable, IMO.

More T-72B3

Western military district moves to modernized tanks

hmm anyway i would love to see Russia offer Burlak turret as upgrade option for T-72.

Stealthflanker wrote:hmm anyway i would love to see Russia offer Burlak turret as upgrade option for T-72.

Same to me!
I thought Burlak turret is a good soultion to fitted with 2A-82 gun.

There is some big news that managed to get skipped over somehow;

Andrei Terlikov, engineer at UVG and supposedly the chief designer of Armata... Has stated that an updated version of the T-72B3 will be produced in the near future. This further upgrade (most likely including the engine & sight from B3M) will crucially be focused on armor. What comes to mind is Relikt, as it is easy to install (as Algeria demonstrated on a T-72M1) and has already been developed etc. Outside of this, the armor upgrade could just be a re-arrangement of K-5, which has the well known turret-spot around the gun due to no coverage. The rest of the T-72B3 upgrade-of-an-upgrade-of-an-upgrade will be direct at the FCS, seemingly... Terlikov stated it will be a 'fully-automatic' system that 'is capable of warning the threat vehicles' and 'provides a panoramic view around the tank'. IMO, due to problems with translation, this means; it will have a 360-degree Independent Commanders Sight (per the B3M specification, possibly an upgrade version of that model or...this is a long shot; Hawkeye) along with fully-electronic FCS systems (possibly including elements from Kalina, or by simply replacing all analogue equipment), and Relikt for extra protection. 

Such an upgrade for multiple-hundreds of tanks would be amazing, if possibly a bit far-fetched. 

Still, Relikt itself would be a MASSIVE upgrade allowing the T-72B platform to resist all current NATO ammunition, and the upgraded FCS would help further what the B3 started. Assuming this upgrade includes the 1130 HP engine, it will be probably the last upgrade of the T-72 platform in wide-usage along with being very competitive (if not superior) to the T-90A. - I'm calling this upgrade the T-72B3MM for reasons...and science...

A few hundred of these, a thousand + T-72B3 & B3M's, along with the T-90B3 means the platforms will not be going to waste... It also allows Russia to further bridge the gap between T-72 & Armata & the rest of the competition.

Another upgrade i'd like to see is new hull armor in the manner of Ob-187.

Stealthflanker wrote:Another upgrade i'd like to see is new hull armor in the manner of Ob-187.  

Too expensive, too much work etc...and with Armata looming, a Relikt upgrade would make much more sense.

That being said, an Ob.187 hull layout would be pretty cool.

sepheronx wrote:This is much needed as I read somewhere that the mod were not particularly happy with the performance of T-72B3.  So this upgrade will definitely give the T-72B3 the capabilities closest to the T-90AM without breaking the bank.  And such a tank would really benefit the Russian army for years to come, even in reserves.

In all honestly, I'm almost certain it is just a Relikt-equipped T-72B3M. The other upgrades are possibilities.

sepheronx wrote:This is much needed as I read somewhere that the mod were not particularly happy with the performance of T-72B3.  So this upgrade will definitely give the T-72B3 the capabilities closest to the T-90AM without breaking the bank.  And such a tank would really benefit the Russian army for years to come, even in reserves.

You mean, they're not happy with how they performed in the Ukraine

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:This is much needed as I read somewhere that the mod were not particularly happy with the performance of T-72B3.  So this upgrade will definitely give the T-72B3 the capabilities closest to the T-90AM without breaking the bank.  And such a tank would really benefit the Russian army for years to come, even in reserves.

You mean, they're not happy with how they performed in the Ukraine

Why weren't the MoD happy with the B3? The fact is that on the roughly 15 B3's seen until now, only 6 were disabled/destroyed, 2 captured (1 recaptured one destroyed). The other issue is the very shaky operational intelligence they got.

For instance Two T-72 were stuck on a minefield during Debal, there was nothing provided to the Militia to tow them out. Same for Sanzharovka assault. The tanks were simply told there was stronghold around there without proper intelligence. Result the tanks went in, blew up a couple of Ukrop tincans, then got stuck in a minefield and got hit by ATGM.

But suddenly same tank in August, was preying on Ukrop steel like it was manned by Mikhail Wittmanskis ...

The performance of the T72B3 might be bad in comparison with say the 96A/G that is aligned on TankBiathlon, but I see nothing wrong with in in Ukraine. Bar operationnal intelligence and use of the asset.

sepheronx wrote:Isn't the T-72B3 winning against the Chinese tank in the Biathlon?  Isn't China in third place?

Anyway, I just read they were not impressed.  That was it.  No explanation.  But seeing as T-72's and T-90's are still going to be Russia's main tank for quite some time, I think it may be in their best interest to upgrade them to the best they can be for now.

Russian team was 7 minutes ahead of the Chinese one, which used a Type-96A of some variation. It is funny, because the Type-96 was firing on the move no faster than the T-72B3. There goes the *Type has the better FCS, suspension, and stabilization* bull crap that was spewed last year.

sepheronx wrote:Isn't the T-72B3 winning against the Chinese tank in the Biathlon?  Isn't China in third place?

Anyway, I just read they were not impressed.  That was it.  No explanation.  But seeing as T-72's and T-90's are still going to be Russia's main tank for quite some time, I think it may be in their best interest to upgrade them to the best they can be for now.

China is in the third place indeed so I don't see what is wrong with the B3.

sepheronx wrote:Isn't the T-72B3 winning against the Chinese tank in the Biathlon?  Isn't China in third place?

Anyway, I just read they were not impressed.  That was it.  No explanation.  But seeing as T-72's and T-90's are still going to be Russia's main tank for quite some time, I think it may be in their best interest to upgrade them to the best they can be for now.

Russia won the tournament. All the other teams besides China are using T-72B3s so I think it is safe to assume that the Russian team won because of their training. China doesn't have a a rich history in tank warfare so they may have scored so high because of their tank. There are a lot of variables in this.

The T-72B3 was also chosen because it is a cheaper alternative to the more advanced T-72B2. I don't remember much about the T-72B2 and with the coming of the T-14 there has to be more advanced technology now that could be incorporated into a T-72B3 upgrade. Nevertheless, it is almost always best to pay a little more for to have something better done, even if the situation with military spending back then was a lot different than today.