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    Il-76/476 Military Transports

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:52 pm

    As far as I remember reading, the PS-90A-76 (the variant mounted on the il(4)76 Is rated at 14.5 tons of takeoff thrust (but can be uprated to 16 tons if needed according to this website)

    Well if they get the 60 ton payload capacity and improved flight range with a 14 ton class engine then a PD-14 should be fine... I have a book that describes the Il-76 and it mentions that normal cruise thrust is 2 tons thrust per engine so it really only uses power for takeoffs and for reverse thrust for landing on shorter runways... so if that is the case then a PD-14 would be fine.

    The previous engines on the il-76, the D30KP had 12 tons of takeoff thrust instead.

    Yes, you are quite right... just looked up my book and it mentions the 12 ton thrust of the Il-76 and the A-40 used together with booster engines.

    Which means 14 ton thrust engines should improve performance and make takeoffs shorter without making it too overpowered and therefore fuel inefficient.

    But the PS-90 will not be produced forever, in a few years they will look for a new one.

    Just going on memory and that has recently proven wrong, but the first PS-90 engines had a lot of American components and might have been the 14 ton thrust models I was thinking of. It wasn't until they got to the PS-90A3 model that they replaced all the foreign parts from them and I think the thrust was 16 or 18 tons thrust on those versions... which might be useful for heavier aircraft but perhaps a bit over powered for an Il-476.

    The PD-14 would be a much more suitable design for efficient operations.

    Until they rump up production of PD14, PD14M, PD18R etc and those engine accumulate enough experience, there will be still production of these engines. PS90 are also used in the il96 and in the Tu204.
    Probably they are also cheaper than the PD14, so even if the consumption is 15% higher it will be acceptable for military or government use.

    One of the stumbling blocks for the PS-90s was their high initial costs... I think the 16 ton thrust model of the PS-90 was something like 6 million US dollars per engine, so while it was more fuel efficient than the original D30 engine... you would have to use it quite a bit before the 800K D-30 became worth replacing.

    I seem to remember they developed an upgraded D-30 to meet noise and emission requirements and did improve fuel consumption but not to the level of the PS-90, but without increasing the price 5 fold too.

    The thing was that it was the military that was paying for the new engines and they emission and noise controls don't apply to military aircraft, so for a civilian operator 24 million to replace 3.2 million dollars worth of engines is a serious thing... it will take a lot of use before the fuel savings make up the amount spent on new engines and spares of course.

    Although, I do not expect terminal failures with the PD-14. Russia has an established jet engine
    development and production capability.

    A good design process and making a family of designs based on the same model should reduce risk and make the process much more efficient and hopefully trouble free.

    Maybe around 2028 or around that date... but at that point maybe they could be thinking about replacing the il76.

    If they put the Il-276 into service and get an Il-106 into service then I really don't see any need to replace the Il-476 for a few decades... as a 60 ton payload capacity aircraft it fills a gap well. Perhaps a stretched version with PD-18 engines or something to still carry 60 tons but carry it much further perhaps...

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:10 am

    Completed assembly of the next serial military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A - UAC

    11.11.2020 8:27:59
    The aircraft is to be flight tested, painted and put into operation

    Moscow. 11th of November. INTERFAX - The next serial military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A has been assembled and transferred for flight tests, the press service of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) reported.
    "The new aircraft has been transferred from the final assembly shop to the flight test station (LIS) of the enterprise for ground and flight tests," the press service said.
    The UAC noted that during the tests, specialists will check the operation of the aircraft fuel system and its hydraulic system, perform the de-preservation and launch of the auxiliary power plant, the engine race and other necessary tasks.
    "Before the new aircraft was transported to the LIS, the customer's representatives were presented with the results of testing the fuel system and the tightness of the aircraft fuel tanks, carried out its general technical inspection, control of the shape and quality of the outer surface, and inspection of the product for completeness. After that, the work on the final assembly stage was completed. , - said the director of the Il-76 and Il-112V programs Oleg Siyanchev, whose words were quoted in the press service.
    "At the flight test station, the aircraft is to be flight tested, painted and put into operation," the corporation added.
    Serial production of the Il-76MD-90A is being deployed at the Ulyanovsk enterprise Aviastar-SP (as part of the transport aviation division of the UAC of the Rostec state corporation), but so far supplies to the military are being carried out behind schedule. It was planned that in 2019 the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation will receive five of these aircraft, but only three were reported.
    On April 15, 2020, the UAC announced the transfer for flight tests of the next Il-76MD-90A aircraft built under a contract with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, which, upon completion of the flight program, is to replenish the air regiment of military transport aviation based in Ulyanovsk.


    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp%3Frid%3D1%26nid%3D541455%26lang%3DRU

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    As far as I remember reading, the PS-90A-76 (the variant mounted on the il(4)76 Is rated at 14.5 tons of takeoff thrust (but can be uprated to 16 tons if needed according to this website)

    Well if they get the 60 ton payload capacity and improved flight range with a 14 ton class engine then a PD-14 should be fine... I have a book that describes the Il-76 and it mentions that normal cruise thrust is 2 tons thrust per engine so it really only uses power for takeoffs and for reverse thrust for landing on shorter runways... so if that is the case then a PD-14 would be fine.

    2 tons thrust at cruise is mostly because the much lower density of the air at cruise altitude.

    At 10000meters of altitude the atmospheric pressure is about 1/4 than at sea level.

    The engines run a bit hotter and faster (higher turbines speed and higher temperatures) at takeoff (and also at climb) condition than at cruise, but the difference is not so large.

    GarryB wrote:
    But the PS-90 will not be produced forever, in a few years they will look for a new one.

    Just going on memory and that has recently proven wrong, but the first PS-90 engines had a lot of American components and might have been the 14 ton thrust models I was thinking of. It wasn't until they got to the PS-90A3 model that they replaced all the foreign parts from them and I think the thrust was 16 or 18 tons thrust on those versions... which might be useful for heavier aircraft but perhaps a bit over powered for an Il-476.

    The PD-14 would be a much more suitable design for efficient operations.

    It was not the first, the first was a soviet product.

    It was the PS-90 A2, that should have gone on the Tu-204 SM.

    It was an improved variant developed together with pratt&withney

    https://web.archive.org/web/20141006163752/http://avid.ru/eng/pr/news/654/

    Cuba and Iran were interested in such aircrafts, but the americans blocked the sales.
    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL on Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:05 pm

    LMFS wrote:Completed assembly of the next serial military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A - UAC


    Il-76/476 Military Transports - Page 10 Hze-vh10

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:14 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Completed assembly of the next serial military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A - UAC


    Il-76/476 Military Transports - Page 10 Hze-vh10

    Does anyone know how many il76 were produced this year? 3? 4?

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:28 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Does anyone know how many il76 were produced this year? 3? 4?

    That would be the third this year if I am not wrong, but AMCXXL surely knows better. BMPD will probably publish an overview of deliveries too.
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    Post  AMCXXL on Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:32 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Completed assembly of the next serial military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A - UAC


    Il-76/476 Military Transports - Page 10 Hze-vh10

    Does anyone know how many il76 were produced this year? 3? 4?


    at the moment 3, at the end probably 4

    two were produded and delivered before the summer.
    also, in the first months od 2020 were handed over two more produced in last year (first flight in late 2019)

    it is  probably that this airplane and other do the first flight before year end and will be delivered in the first months of 2021

    for the moment there are 7 Il-76MD-90A in the Russian Air Force (2 in 2016, 3 in 2019 and 2 in 2020), with two more is enough for the first complete squadron

    By 2027 the number contracted is 28 (1-13-14), so is not necesary to produce more than 3 each year

    Also you must think that the Il-78M-90A is also a transport airplane (dual purpose transport-tanker) , then also will replace some Il-76


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:39 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:at the moment 3, at the end probably 4

    two were produded and delivered before the summer.
    also, in the first months od 2020 were handed over two more produced in last year (first flight in late 2019)

    it is  probably that this airplane and other do the first flight before year end and will be delivered in the first months of 2021

    for the moment there are 7 Il-76MD-90A in the Russian Air Force (2 in 2016, 3 in 2019 and 2 in 2020), with two more is enough for the first complete squadron

    By 2027 the number contracted is 28 (1-13-14), so is not necesary to produce more than 3 each year

    Great, as always  thumbsup

    Have you got information about the operation of the serial production? By now they have not managed to raise productivity by much, they blamed suppliers for last year's failure to meet the schedule but this year does not look much better. When do you think they will start picking up speed? Otherwise the serial production makes little sense...
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:21 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Completed assembly of the next serial military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A - UAC


    Il-76/476 Military Transports - Page 10 Hze-vh10

    Does anyone know how many il76 were produced this year? 3? 4?


    at the moment 3, at the end probably 4

    two were produded and delivered before the summer.
    also, in the first months od 2020 were handed over two more produced in last year (first flight in late 2019)

    it is  probably that this airplane and other do the first flight before year end and will be delivered in the first months of 2021

    for the moment there are 7 Il-76MD-90A in the Russian Air Force (2 in 2016, 3 in 2019 and 2 in 2020), with two more is enough for the first complete squadron

    By 2027 the number contracted is 28 (1-13-14), so is not necesary to produce more than 3 each year

    Also you must think that the Il-78M-90A is also a transport airplane (dual purpose transport-tanker) , then also will replace some Il-76

    Thanks!

    So if it is true that the upgraded production lines may enable the production of 18 aircrafts per year, there is quite a bit of spare capacity for eventual foreign customers...
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:58 pm

    2 tons thrust at cruise is mostly because the much lower density of the air at cruise altitude.

    At 10000meters of altitude the atmospheric pressure is about 1/4 than at sea level.

    The engines run a bit hotter and faster (higher turbines speed and higher temperatures) at takeoff (and also at climb) condition than at cruise, but the difference is not so large.

    Yes, once you are airborne and in flight at altitude and at cruising speed you just use the engines to overcome drag essentially to maintain speed and altitude...

    With four engines that means 8 tons thrust maintains speed and altitude... or three quarters throttle on one engine...

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:06 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    2 tons thrust at cruise is mostly because the much lower density of the air at cruise altitude.

    At 10000meters of altitude the atmospheric pressure is about 1/4 than at sea level.

    The engines run a bit hotter and faster (higher turbines speed and higher temperatures) at takeoff (and also at climb) condition than at cruise, but the difference is not so large.

    Yes, once you are airborne and in flight at altitude and at cruising speed you just use the engines to overcome drag essentially to maintain speed and altitude...

    With four engines that means 8 tons thrust maintains speed and altitude... or three quarters throttle on one engine...

    Garry, the engines are not running at half the speed at cruise than at takeoff. Yes there is a difference, and the turbine is running a few percentage points slower in comparison to the speed at max take off (and the temperature at the compressor exit and at turbine entry are less extreme), but it is not like the difference are like going in an auto st 50km/h vs 200km/h. A turbine engine has narrow conditions at which it can operate efficiently, outside them either it cannot stay on without help, or it cannot generate considerable thrust (idle conditions).

    Finally you cannot get 8 tons thrust at cruise condition from one PS90 engine (or a CFM engine)!

    It is impossible


    Even if you run it at max conditions, there is a limit.

    As I was writing you in the post above, the air pressure at cruise altitude is 4 to 5 times lower than at sea level.

    Thrust is directly proportional to the atmospheric pressure, so if you take a jet engine at cruise altitude (or in a facility simulating high altitude air condition) you will never even reach more than about 1/4 of the thrust that the engine is able to generate at sea level.
    There are other limitations of course, but to simplify the matter let's do not delve to much into details.

    That would mean that even if you pushed the PS90 of the il76 (an engine rated at 14.5 tons of thrust at takeoff, and 16 in special conditions)  you will never reach more than 4 tons of thrust (at cruise condition) from each of them, even if you push them at their structural limits, and at turbine temperature for which you will destroy the turbine after a few hours.  (Even 4 tons of cruise thrust for that engine is way too much anyway, but it is just a simplification).
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:53 pm

    The defense Ministry will receive two Il-76MD-90A transporters next week

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/202011131219-HzgsD.html

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:03 am

    Garry, the engines are not running at half the speed at cruise than at takeoff. Yes there is a difference, and the t

    You clearly misunderstand...

    Each engine runs at 2 tons thrust in cruise... there are four engines so all four engines in 2 ton thrust mode is equal to a total of 8 tons thrust from all four engines to overcome drag and maintain speed and altitude.

    They could get the same thrust by shutting down three engines and running the remaining engine at 8 tons thrust (they are 12 ton thrust engines so it is perfectly possible), it just depends on what throttle setting is most efficient... 2 tons thrust or 8 tons thrust.

    Obviously with three engines turned off they will be generating much more drag than they would if they were all adding 2 tons thrust and also the thrust line would be effected depending on which engine you ran at 8 tons thrust to fly the aircraft.

    All I am saying is that with more powerful engines allowing heavier payloads will make higher power settings necessary which increases fuel consumption which either shortens range or means a lot of that extra payload capacity will actually be needed for extra fuel.

    If the engines can run at 8 ton thrust at the altitude they operate they can simply fly lower... it is not like the get an enormous speed boost by flying that high like a fast jet that can fly at 1,300km/h at sea level and 2,500km/h at altitude...
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    Post  owais.usmani on Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:23 pm

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    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:28 am

    LMFS wrote:The defense Ministry will receive two Il-76MD-90A transporters next week

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/202011131219-HzgsD.html

    This two airplanes are RF-78658 and RF-78659, which had already been announced its transfer to the defense ministry several months ago, therefore there are still 7 Il-476 aircraft received by the VKS


    https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/5724517.html
    On November 19, at the airfield in Ulyanovsk, the Ministry of Defense will receive two Il-76MD-90A onboard 78658 and 78659

    Il-76/476 Military Transports - Page 10 57521110
    First runs on the airborne strip RF-78659 (02-04), August 2020

    The Russian Defense Ministry will receive two new Il-76MD-90A military transport aircraft this week, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

    "On November 19, at the Ulyanovsk airfield, a solemn ceremony will be held for the transfer of two newest military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A from the Ulyanovsk aircraft plant to the military transport aviation regiment," the message says.

    The Il-76MD-90A military transport aircraft is produced at the Aviastar-SP Ulyanovsk plant. It is capable of transferring more than 50 tons of cargo over a distance of 5,000 kilometers. The width and height of the cab are 3.45 and 3.4 meters, respectively.

    The aircraft received new engines, a wing, a so-called "glass cockpit": the dial gauges were replaced with LCD displays. The performance has been significantly improved. The landing gear scheme specially created for the Il-76 allows the aircraft to land and take off from unpaved strips.

    It can carry up to 126 paratroopers. The first flight took place in 2012.

    On November 12, at the Ulyanovsk aircraft building enterprise Aviastar-SP JSC, work was completed on the final assembly of the next serial heavy transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A (RF-78660)

    The new aircraft, built in accordance with the production program of the UAC Transport Aviation Division, has been transferred from the final assembly shop to the company's flight test station (LIS) for ground and flight tests.

    Onboard RF-78660 (serial 02-05)
    Il-76/476 Military Transports - Page 10 57519910

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