This is a good opportunity for Russia to slaughter NAziTO troops in Ukraine and give Russia the justification to liberate and incorporate the Baltics and Finland back to Russia
The majority of the populations in the Baltic states and Finland have supported their actions and their place in HATO and the EU... Russia does not need that extra territory... there is nothing of enormous value in those regions except any pro Russian people.... they should offer Russian passports to Russian speakers who want to keep speaking Russian and continue with Russian culture and relations... build a city somewhere and offer them apartments to live in... for the elderly offer them their pensions and a chance to live in a modern safe city where they can be as Russian as they like.
Rescuing them all would require rebuilding those regions and would cost a lot more than just building a complete city somewhere for them.
It could be a foreigners city for new immigrants to move to to see if they want to be Russian...
I don't think Russia should lift a finger to save the Baltics or Finland.... they have made their choice with very little protest or objections... The baltics are just extra ports in a HATO sea that are useless unless Russia had a lot of things they needed to send to northern european countries... which they don't.
According to the SVR, the plan would also involve Ukraine being partitioned into four large occupation zones. Romania would take the Black Sea coast, Poland would control Western Ukraine, and the UK would occupy the north, including Kiev. The central and eastern parts of the country would be taken by Germany, the agency claimed.
Awesome plan, but if Russia does not agree then it wont work.
Article 5 does not apply to HATO forces in foreign countries in a war zone...
Does Russia need such a peaceful settlement option? The answer is obvious.
This is awesome... we went from CIA run US newspapers releasing potential plans to the public to gauge the reaction of enemies and allies and the general public, to the Russians openly talking about HATO plans and making it obvious they will be rejected out of hand...
Clever of Russia to save time like this.
"We had several situations when units fled, small or large. They exposed their flanks, and the enemy came to these flanks and killed their brothers in arms, because those who stood in positions did not know that there was no one around," the Ukrainian official said.
Perhaps that Ukrainian official should go to the front and lead by example and show them how it is done.
If the above info is correct, Oreshnik's 6 x 6 sub arnaments is not far off the force of one FOAB.
There is little chance it will have 36 penetrators weighing 500kgs each... that would be 16 tons of payload.
More likely it would be closer to 3.6 tons so probably 3.3 tons of explosives equivalent... but spread over 36 locations around the target area... which is probably more efficient against most targets than a bigger payload hitting one place like a FOAB.
One argument is that Oreshnik is a more efficient force than other explosives because it is kinetic energy into the target rather than lots of heat and light and air explosion over the target.
The reason explosives are used is to create heat and shockwaves around the target... the higher the HE content the more powerful the shockwaves and heat, but in this case the kinetic effects of this very high speed projectile produces shockwaves and heat as a natural consequence of its impact so HE is not required or even useful.
HE is lightweight... a 500kg HE bomb is much bigger than a 500kg lump of metal penetrator because of the volume difference, but the compact nature of metal means it forms a better penetrator too to reach places something lighter and bigger and filled with HE simply would not reach.
A solid metal projectile is also less likely to break up so it continues to penetrate better all the way through.
For hunting a rifle bullet is often lead cored to add mass and momentum but with an open nose jacket so when it impacts game it expands and creates a larger hole. Full metal jacket ammo does not have an exposed lead core and will simply punch through people and animals and do rather less damage which makes it less humane for use on animals.
Selecting different types of warhead is dictated by a target... for soft area targets HE makes more sense but super high velocities makes destroying such targets more difficult and a solution would be multiple penetrator warheads to spread the very focused damage of each penetrator.... so instead of having a single two ton penetrator, you would use 36 x 50kg or 100kg penetrators to spread the damage and reach deep down into protected targets.
Shooting an elephant with an AK-47 bullet would be a waste of time because such a light slow bullet would barely penetrate the skin and would just annoy and enrage the animal. Elephant guns have heavy bullets that generally don't travel a lot faster than assault rifle bullets and rely on heavy solid bullets to penetrate skin and flesh to reach vital organs and cause blood loss. When you watch good movies like Tremors where they obviously know a bit about guns they use 50 cal rounds and elephant guns on the monsters to penetrate their thick hides. While Jurassic park goes the other way and shows shotguns being used... with most dinosaurs would be useless and would not penetrate the skin let alone reach vital organs and break bones. For most of the dinosaurs in those movies you would need 30mm cannon or heavier rounds to effect large dinosaurs. The point is that some targets if you don't have penetration then it doesn't matter how much energy the round has or HE payload the round has... an explosive detonated outside an armoured vehicle might give the crew of the vehicle a headache, but a HE charge 1/10th the size inside the vehicle could kill everyone because the protection that stops the round from entering... armour on the tank or 7 floors above the 8th floor you are hiding in, contains the explosion so the shockwaves bounce of the wall and are magnified inside the volume... not to mention the fire and combustion will consume the oxygen too... and 7 floors is a long way to climb holding your breath.
With this weapon you would get zero warning... one second the lights are on and everything is normal and then it is dark, there are fragments and burning things bouncing around the place at high supersonic speeds, and you are probably dead like everyone around you.
A monstrous, 210+ t R-36M in its heaviest and latest modification has a maximal payload of 8470 kilos, which includes decoys, a delivery bus, and all assisting subsystems.
Very true, but advancements in rocket fuel and the fact that you don't need to reach intercontinental ranges means you could use a current ICBM or SLBM and double or triple its payload to achieve the shorter range parameters to make it an IRBM and no longer subject to strategic arms agreements.
Depressed trajectory designs that don't leave the atmosphere could allow one stage to have its rockets replaced with scramjets and a massive reduction in fuel weight because you don't need any oxidiser onboard.
The TNT equivalent calculators are misleading. You need to account for the actual physics of hypersonic impactors hitting hard objects.
Energy equivalents are misleading... the equation is biased to velocity, which does not take into account how the projectile or payload interacts with the target.
As I mentioned above a FMJ (full metal jacket) bullet might punch straight through a target and continue down range without slowing down very much at all... the energy transfer to the target might be not that significant. In comparison a light high velocity bullet of a modern small calibre assault rifle is designed to tumble and fragment and dump its energy into the target, but also as I mentioned on a larger animal it might not even break through the skin... while on soft skinned humans they can do horrendous damage... even without deforming.
The fact is that the new president faces a non-trivial task - to lead the US out of the lost Ukrainian conflict, saving face as much as possible. To pass off defeat as a victory. To contrive, to twist, to lie - but not to give a reason to say: "Wow, so this is a second Afghanistan!" Or even worse - "a second Vietnam!"
It was supposed to be a second Afghanistan for Russia, but is turning into a second Afghanistan for the west.
Of course that would be 8th or 9th Afghanistan for Britain...
I bet Russia is now waiting that the foreign terrorists from Nato nations are forced to go back to their underground facilities in Ukraine, before another Oreshnik hits them. More bang for the buck!
And that is the problem I have with so many fan boys demanding they launch the missile now.... picking the target is important, but timing the attack so that you get certain group personnel is even more important. It is not enough to hit a rocket production facility, but getting it when all their specialists from Ukraine and HATO are present makes the strike rather more effective.
Many speculations, many ideas. In such a case, you don't even need decoys.
These missiles are intended to be used as one shots so having it manouver at stages where it might be vulnerable is more useful than having 20-30 decoys on board...
It would be like fitting an internal jammer on an Su-57... a towed jammer might be useful but internal jammers are counterproductive to your stealth design.
The Rubezh weighs 36,000 kg acc to one source. Yet other sources (Jamestown haha) say it is 80 tons. Obviously it's not that, but it is at least some way related to Oreshnik.
At this stage all anyone knows who can say is what Putin has said so that is just speculation and not to be trusted.
There is zero chance each penetrator is 500kgs when it clearly carries 36 if them.... that is just obvious.
But in reality a 500kg penetrator would require too much energy to manouver to avoid interception anyway...
Numerous sources suggest 6 x 6 subarnaments.
Numerous sources suggest heavy metal rods/balls were carried to increase the kinetic performance. Rather than actual explosives.
So it could all be very different to past payloads.
The 6 payloads of 6 penetrators is based on the video released showing 6 clusters of 6 lines coming from the sky glowing from the speed they were travelling at, so that is not really speculation and can be considered fact.
Rods would allow them to maintain speed and penetrate into the targets... balls would slow down faster but could be scattered to spread the damage on targets that don't have 8 sublevels... perhaps an airfield or factory over an area would be better struck with metal balls.
In this case I would say rods are more likely.
Again... speculation.
What is not speculation is that ICBMs and SLBMs generally have a throw weight of a couple of tons... the very big missiles were often very big to achieve intercontinental range, so an IRBM would have a heavier payload.... isn't there a Chinese or North Korean IRBM with a conventional payload weight of 8 tons.
So it is not impossible, but 18 tons would be very very very unlikely and would run the risk of being categorised as a longer ranged ICBM with might lighter nuclear warheads.
Nuclear warheads tend to be smaller and lighter so a Kh-101 with a 400kg HE payload has a range of 4,500km, while the Kh-102 with a rather lighter nuclear warhead reaches 5,000km range or more. The difference would be greater if the Kh-101 carried metal penetrator warheads that are mostly steel... the space a 400kg payload of HE takes up you could probably have a 2 ton penetrator... but the cruise missile couldn't handle that...
Numerous sources highlight Oreshnik's far superior ability in number of arnaments carried vs other missiles.
Its best features are its range and speed.... and heavier payloads will reduce both.
Carrying 18 tons to the destination, even 700km sounds a lot.
The whole point of this missile is that it can reach targets in Europe and Asia and the Middle East that their short range missiles can't reach and they don't have to use ICBMs and SLBMs to hit.
The range will be in the 4 to 5 thousand kms range... they mentioned hitting London in about 19 minutes... mach 10 is 3.5-4 km per second so lets say 3.5km/s to allow for acceleration and say that over a 19 minute flight you travel for 1440 seconds, and moving at 3.5km/s you cover just under 4,000km.
Putin compares it to a nuke in ability to damage.
The certainly appears to be evidence supporting it.
That is because of its terminal velocity. He wouldn't compare it with a nuke if it was a nuke.
Why would Putin say it is comparable to a nuke if it is not?
Because it is very destructive even without a HE payload because of the speeds and temperatures involved.
Note Alamo and others are not saying it is not powerful... they are saying it is not 18 tons of payload.
The submunitions are not 500kg each and don't need to be to cause serious damage... the speed and temperatures achieved means much smaller lighter munitions would be effective enough and the use of 36 munitions to spread that damage makes them more lethal.
If you think about it... if each penetrator is 100kg that means each submunition payload is 600kg and the 6 together are 3.6 tons which is a significant amount for an ICBM or SLBM... but with modern rocket fuel would be perfectly achievable without needing hundreds of tons worth of launch rocket.
And plenty of those 563 will go straight back to the front... and death.
Dead bodies traded...
The Ukrainian MIC (mortuary-industrial complex) cannot be stopped. Even the dead are killed a second time, all to be buried again.
Just the leadership that are brain dead...
To catch a meaning can be kind of tricky for someone who seriously dreams about a 20t warhead for a medium range missile ...
Just saying...
Don't be mean... misunderstandings are common on the interweb... sarcasm is not the solution.
According to him, Zelensky made the decision to hold Kurakhovo despite the threat of encirclement, refusing to give the order to withdraw Ukrainian troops, thereby dooming them to death, RIA Novosti reports .
Didn't hitler do the same thing at Stalingrad... hope their commanders are smart enough to surrender... their survival chances in prison in Russia would be much better than for the Germans in WWII.
You are all wrong and Firebird is right. They are all zombiefied and they get to re-spawn in 3....2...1
I will consider these jibes as light hearted banter rather than bullying, because as I have posted bullying and abuse comes with a three week ban... but I don't take your an Alamos comments as being abuse.
How about we stop this line of humour now...
Firebird was obviously mistaken and simple correction from other members would suffice.
Home
Latest images
Register
Log in
The proportions again indicate terrible losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
397 from the Donetsk direction;
lyle6
