Russian special military operation in Ukraine #63
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your late.
https://tass.com/defense/1879531
MOSCOW, November 28. /TASS/. In the past few days, the Russian Armed forces used 100 missiles and 466 Geran-2 drones, hitting 17 key Ukrainian military industrial targets in response to Kiev’s strikes deep into Russian territory, the Russian Defense Ministry reported.
The Russian forces used Iskander ballistic missiles for strikes on deployment locations of Western-made long-range missiles; various multiple launch rocket system launchers were destroyed. The missile strikes also hit temporary deployment locations of foreign mercenaries.
In addition, on November 28, the Russian forces carried out a combined strike at the Ukrainian military-industrial complex and its energy infrastructure.
Here are the key points about the strikes on Ukrainian military-industrial facilities.
About the response strikes
During his visit to Astana, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the strikes on Russian territory with Western-made weapons mean the direct involvement of the West in the Ukrainian conflict.
Putin noted that Russia was twice attacked with ATACMS missiles since the use of the Oreshnik missile, promising that Russia will respond to the aggression.
On the morning of November 28, the Defense Ministry announced a combined strike with 90 missiles and 100 Geran-2 drones, adding that 17 key Ukrainian military-industrial enterprises were hit.
On November 25, Iskander missiles destroyed 5 launchers using ATACMS long-range missiles in the Sumy Region: 2 MLRS launchers, 3 HIMARS launchers and up to 30 specialists.
On November 25 and 26, Iskander missiles destroyed two launchers, equipped with Grom-2 experimental ballistic missiles, as well as a launcher and a loading vehicle for the Neptune anti-ship system.
Also on November 25, the strike on the ‘Kraken’ Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) headquarters in Kharkov eliminated up to 40 foreign specialists, mainly from the United Staes.
The Iskander strike at the temporary deployment facility of the Ukrainian armed forces’ Special operations center squad eliminated 72 unmanned speedboat operators, including 9 French instructors and technical specialists.
About the missiles and the drones
Overall, in the past few days, the Russian armed forces used 100 missiles of various type and 466 Geran-2 drones.
The Russian Armed Forces continue to constantly monitor airstrips, deployment areas and movement routes of Western-made long-range weapons and strike them.
On the situation in Ukraine
Earlier this morning, air raid alarm was declared across the entire Ukraine, which lasted for about three hours. Explosions were heard in multiple Ukrainian cities.
Ukrenergo reported energy infrastructure facilities damaged in several regions. Emergency blackouts were introduced across Ukraine, which were replaced by hourly rolling blackouts later.
Later, Ukrenergo introduced 16-hour blackouts, further limiting energy consumption for subscribers across Ukraine.
Power limitations will remain in effect for the industry and business throughout Friday.
This is the second massive damaging of Ukrainian generation and distribution facilities since the beginning of November.
According to the Russian Defense Ministry, on November 17, the Russian Armed Forces carried out a massive strike on Ukrainian energy and gas extraction, used to support the Ukrainian military-industrial complex.
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The loss of life of French / American advisors (illegal combatants ) is not even painful for their mothers ! Let alone the " West . " There is no news about these , in MSM . As there was no news about previous loss of life of western military personnel . Deaths were passed off as accidents in air crashes etc .
The Orcs are an alien entity in Ukraine . They are a proxy force . Russia has to eliminate them and confront their sugar daddy supporters . Either Trump reverses the Biden decisions or not . If not then in the long term , waiting and not responding to missile strikes inside Russia even at this lower intensity in not possible .
In the mean time various actions can be taken by Russia to put political pressure against the warmongers in the West . As explained previously . Some things that will not trap Trump in vicious cycle of retaliation .
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Rodion_Romanovic wrote:....
He believes that if he works for the TCC he will not be sent to the war zone.
The vast majority of TCC officers are like the kapo in nazi concentration camps... At the end of the war they should be packed and sent to some labour camp in Africa...
....
You crazy?
Russia should keep them all on and have them keep doing the same job
They and all other goons have proven that they are fully qualified to keep Ukrainian rabble in line no matter what, they will be very useful
Ukrainian maggots would immediately start causing trouble if Russians tried to keep them under control but they would not dare to even look at these kapos the wrong way and will always do what they are told
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It is quite easy to explain.
It carries HESH ammunition.
While being weaker than a typical HE round, it still has more than 4 kg of high explosives inside.
This is what it looks like when detonated.
The hilarious thing is that to keep using HESH they have had to keep using rifled main guns, which costs them extra, and of course HESH works by a HE charge that flattens on the target armour and then detonates sending shockwaves through to make the inner surface flake and peel off sending metal fragments through the crew compartment without penetrating the armour. Problem is it only works through solid armour so composite armour or add on armour... or even ERA boxes render it useless as an anti armour round. Layered armour will also render it useless.
During Desert Storm a Challenger hit a Warrior BMP but the Warrior survived a 120mm gun hit. At the time it was taken as proof of how amazing the add on armour the Warrior was fitted with and no other BMP could take such a hit, but the reality was the round that hit it was HESH which not doubt sent a powerful shockwave through the add on armour box, but the airspace behind the armour box meant it was useless. The armour wasn't amazing... the tank round was fucking useless.
T-72s carry plenty of HE and they do not burst apart like a cardboard box.
The ones that don't are the ones that only carry ammo in the autoloader under the floor where most of the time they don't get hit.
Leopard 2s carry HE in the hull too and while they do burst it is nowhere near as dramatic as the challenger.
The Leopard 2 probably carries the same number of HE rounds as the Challenger, and both probably also carry the same number of HEAT, which are also full of HE, but the Leopard 2 has APFSDS rounds as the rest of its loadout, while the Chelly probably has a mix of APFSDS and HESH, so the volume of HE on board is probably higher.
One of the main reasons the T-72 used to lose its turret all the time was because the Russians traditionally use a lot of HE in their tanks.
Even if they can come up with 300.000 men, they will be low on tanks, artillery and with close to zero AD.
Ammo stocks will be enough for a few weeks of fighting. That´s it.
They would be open to drone and Iskander attack and would be slaughtered... Their AD would be pathetic.
The General Staff and the Ministry of Defense are currently selecting targets in Ukraine for strikes with the "Oreshnik," Putin stated.
For best effect they should state that there are ten targets that might be targeted, and they wont reveal which, but that two or three targets will be hit and they will be two or three of these ten places....
Make them get used to bunking out...
Some say these direct attacks by NATO missiles inside Russia , fired by NATO killing servicemen are mere PR or propaganda and are too few to be militarily significant
The escalations by the west in the Ukraine frees Russias hand to escalate as they see fit, and rather than trying to dissuade the west, it seems they are more focussed on hitting important centres and targets in the Ukraine.
The factory they hit with Iskanders was clearly damaged but obviously not to their satisfaction. The western escalation allowed them to use missiles that were banned up until recently by the INF treaty and no one has jumped up and down in the west complaining that Russia promised not to deploy such weapons until the US did.
Of course the US tested Tomahawk missiles from the AEGIS AShore system in Europe so Russia could say they were entitled to test this missile too...
Quite different missiles though to be fair.
No need to start WWIII yet , but counter- pressure need be applied , in a non- lethal way , that demoralize their Army and people and government for supporting the war . Use your imagination .
The unreasonable behaviour of the west is just reinforcing to Russia and Russians that this war was inevitable and most important necessary...
I have heard analysts saying that the Oreshnik missiles have such a high kinetic energy that their impact is equivalent to a nuclear bomb. But the video showing an Oreshnik missile did not show any nuclear-like explosion or something.
Could anyone enlighten me. I have no clue about this.
If you look at the aftermath of an APFSDS round penetrating a tank from the outside you see a tiny hole punched into the heavy armour skin of the vehicle.
If no ammo or fuel is hit and there is no explosion then from the outside it doesn't really look like the tank has been hit, though the crew might have been eviscerated by high velocity fragments and spall from the penetration.
In this case the facility is a cold war era strategic rocket production facility with floors going about 8 floors down.... even the biggest explosion and fire in the bottom floor would not be visible from the surface, but all they oxygen would be consumed and most of the people working there likely killed by the impacts.
It would be safe to say at this time in the conflict they were likely running three 8 hour shifts per day and that this place was busy...
So Russia is able to destroy underground bunkers with the energy of a nuclear weapon without suffering the diplomatic consequences of a nuke. That is incredible.
A truck mounted missile that can reach targets 5,000km away in a matter of about 20 minutes at most.
It obviously helps they likely had the schematics of the target in this case being a soviet facility so they would know where fuel tanks would be for storing fuels and other workshops, and likely some spies probably helped too.
Methinks that SK doesn't want its weapons to be affected by the same PR destruction as others in Ukraine. Bad for sales into countries like Poland.
They probably didn't want to encourage Russia to give gifts in retaliation to NK...
SK used to have a deep MIC connection with Russia.
Ironically better relations with SK and Russia are probably their best chance at peace with NK... the US is just interested in war and maintaining troops near China... they don't want NK and SK getting along.
Kellogg himself has declared his intention to seek "peace through force."
Which means Trump will be sounding off and talking and the Russians and Ukrainans will ignore the barking...
The west never had the potential to win this conflict with force... force has failed... so now they want to try using it again... super fail.
Trump has leverage over Kiev but not Russia, but you could argue that when Kiev collapses the war is over. Russia isn't anywhere near collapse.
This was a dangerously weak response.
It isn't over yet... these are normal attacks with conventional weapons, Putin has stated that targets are being selected for Hazelnut.
More importantly HATO troops will be needed to operate most western systems like Patriot and Storm Shadow and Scalp, and likely their battefield radars and EW equipment for jamming drones, not to mention ATCMS as well.
These people will be tough to be replaced now Kiev is clearly losing... and they make the Kiev military work... such that it is now.
The Hazelnut strike will likely be against HQs and deep bunkers for people they desperately want to keep safe from Russian fire power... which makes them targets of value.
The loss of life of French / American advisors (illegal combatants ) is not even painful for their mothers ! Let alone the " West . " There is no news about these , in MSM . As there was no news about previous loss of life of western military personnel . Deaths were passed off as accidents in air crashes etc .
Hoping the devil will care how many zombies you kill is futile. The important factor is that eliminating these people weakens the Kiev war machine because these men are operating systems that conscripts cannot operate.
With these people dead then Trumps escalation is going to require more blood from HATO and I can't see a lot of volunteers with no bunker safe in most of Europe if they wanted.
Russia should keep them all on and have them keep doing the same job
If you needed to keep jews in prison after WWII the best guards would be the ones they already had... the western colonial powers used Japanese guards to control the people in their colonies after WWII while they lacked the personnel to do the job...
I don't think these TCC will last the war to be honest... a surge to put up a final resistance before the negotiations start might involved TCCs being sent to the front with anyone they can find going with them.
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West plotting to ‘occupy’ Ukraine – Russian intel
The West is essentially planning to occupy Ukraine and freeze the conflict with Russia by deploying tens of thousands of supposed peacekeepers to the country, the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) has said.
In a statement on Friday, the spy agency cited intelligence sources as saying that NATO is increasingly in favor of freezing the hostilities along the current front line, as the US-led military bloc and Ukraine have come to realize that they are failing to inflict a “strategic defeat” on Russia.
Freezing the conflict would allow the West to rebuild the shattered Ukrainian military and “prepare it for an attempt at revenge,” the SVR stated. It claimed that NATO is already setting up training centers to process at least one million Ukrainian conscripts.
A possible respite would also help the West restore Kiev’s military industry, which has been regularly battered by Russian missile and drone strikes, the SVR added.
“To solve these tasks, the West will need to essentially occupy Ukraine. Naturally, this will be done under the guise of deploying a ‘peacekeeping contingent’ in the country… According to the plan, a total of 100,000 so-called peacekeepers will be deployed in Ukraine.”
According to the SVR, the plan would also involve Ukraine being partitioned into four large occupation zones. Romania would take the Black Sea coast, Poland would control Western Ukraine, and the UK would occupy the north, including Kiev. The central and eastern parts of the country would be taken by Germany, the agency claimed.
https://www.rt.com/russia/608376-svr-west-kiev-troops/
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Ukrainian paratroopers holding a long-term firing position have surrendered to the 1st Tank Army of the Zapad battlegroup near Kopanka in the Kharkov region.
Sputnik has obtained thermal imaging footage of the militants laying down their weapons.
https://t.me/geopolitics_live/38194
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The press office of the Foreign Intelligence Service of the Russian Federation reports that, according to information received by the SVR, in the conditions of the obvious lack of prospects for inflicting a strategic defeat on Russia on the battlefield, NATO is increasingly inclined to the need to "freeze" the Ukrainian conflict. The West is considering the implementation of such a scenario as an opportunity to restore the combat capability of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and thoroughly prepare Kiev for an attempt at revenge. NATO is already deploying training centers in Ukraine, through which it is expected to drag at least a million mobilized Ukrainians.
Another important area of the alliance's work during the truce will be the restoration of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex. Active work is underway with Western military-industrial companies, including the German Rheinmetall, from which they are required not only to invest, but also to send leading specialists and high-performance equipment to Ukraine. NATO headquarters understands that without providing the Ukrainian Armed Forces with sufficient weapons and ammunition, the expectation that the Ukrainians will be able to conduct high-intensity combat operations over a long period of time is unrealistic.
To solve these problems, the West will need to actually occupy Ukraine. Naturally, this will be done under the guise of deploying a "peacekeeping contingent" in the country. The territories that are supposed to be distributed between the occupiers have been determined:
Black Sea coast – Romania;
Western regions of Ukraine - Poland;
the center and east of the country - Germany;
The northern regions, including the capital region, are the United Kingdom.
In total, it is planned to introduce 100 thousand so-called peacekeepers into Ukraine.
According to incoming information, the German military has already turned to the experience of the Nazi invaders establishing an occupation regime in Ukraine during the Great Patriotic War. At the same time, the Bundeswehr has come to the conclusion that it will be impossible to carry out police functions without Sonderkommandos of Ukrainian nationalists. They will come up with a new name, but in essence they will be the same Bandera punishers.
Does Russia need such a peaceful settlement option? The answer is obvious.
divgen TG
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"The main thing is that they leave their combat positions during military operations, and because of this their comrades are dying."
"We had several situations when units fled, small or large. They exposed their flanks, and the enemy came to these flanks and killed their brothers in arms, because those who stood in positions did not know that there was no one around," the Ukrainian official said.
That's exactly how the city of Vuhledar was lost in October in a matter of weeks. There are cases when some deserters return, but only to flee again.
- RVvoenkor
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Moving on, does anyone know the Oreshnik kinetic force?
Online calculator:-
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/kinetic-energy
If it was going at 3900 m/s and had 6 x 6 x 500kg subarnaments that would mean the equiv of 33 tons of TNT.
Here is a list of comparisons:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_of_All_Bombs
If the above info is correct, Oreshnik's 6 x 6 sub arnaments is not far off the force of one FOAB.
Comparison with equiv of TNT:-
A suitcase nuke is 2.5 kilotons
And Hiroshima is 15 kilotons
Davey Crockett nukes are 22 tons
PS this site https://bmanalysis.substack.com/p/oreshnik-enters-the-chat-i
gives complete different stats and says 500kg alone at mach 10 (not 11.4 as quoted elsewhere) gives over 5 tons of TNT equivalent. This site uses RAND.
One argument is that Oreshnik is a more efficient force than other explosives because it is kinetic energy into the target rather than lots of heat and light and air explosion over the target.
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Last edited by Arrow on Fri Nov 29, 2024 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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This is a very good development as I'm sure the Russians are tired of killing only 50+ year old Ukrainian conscripts with a week of combat training. I'd assume most of these 'peacekeepers' would be Polish as they're the only ones dumb enough to sign up for something like this, and they've been expanding their military personnel over the last 2 years.To solve these problems, the West will need to actually occupy Ukraine. Naturally, this will be done under the guise of deploying a "peacekeeping contingent" in the country. The territories that are supposed to be distributed between the occupiers have been determined:
Black Sea coast – Romania;
Western regions of Ukraine - Poland;
the center and east of the country - Germany;
The northern regions, including the capital region, are the United Kingdom.
In total, it is planned to introduce 100 thousand so-called peacekeepers into Ukraine.
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And again, this sort of post makes me wonder again if the author is lost somehow, and accidentally joined a military forum while he was looking for cooking recipes.
What you are talking about is 18t of payload.
There is no ballistic missile on Earth capable of doing so.
A monstrous, 210+ t R-36M in its heaviest and latest modification has a maximal payload of 8470 kilos, which includes decoys, a delivery bus, and all assisting subsystems.
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monstrous, 210+ t R-36M in its heaviest and latest modification has a maximal payload of 8470 kilos, which includes decoys, a delivery bus, and all assisting subsystems. wrote:
So in total it can deliver about 5 tons of cargo. Sarmat probably a bit more.
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They vapourize (as Putin highlighted) and this makes them a type of explosive. The inert metal is subject to explosive vapourization.
So the impactor does not act like a simple penetrator digging into the ground. It produces explosive shock waves and displacement in the
ground. This is why such impactors are effective against bunkers and underground factories such as Yuzhmash.
Someone asked why there was no mushroom cloud if the impactors were depositing large amounts of energy. That is because they are not
producing plasma balls above the surface and heating the atmosphere. They are depositing the energy in the ground. An underground
structure will absorb the exploding metal vapour from the impactors.
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Akela Missed the Mark: US Doomed to Second Vietnam, by Victoria Nikiforova for RiaNovosti. 11.29.2024.
The other day, Zelensky asked his allies to "put Ukraine in an advantageous negotiating position," otherwise, he says, he does not see a diplomatic solution to the conflict with Russia. Overseas, they began to look for a person who would do this with Nezalezhnaya. President-elect Trump even came up with the position of special representative for relations with Russia and Ukraine.
At one time, Moscow native Boris Epstein (not to be confused with Epstein the pedophile, who committed suicide in a New York prison) planned to take over. However, it quickly became clear that he was briskly trading positions in the yet-to-be-formed Trump government, and extorted so much money that his victims – not the least politicians and businessmen – were outraged, exposed him, and even tried to beat him up a little.
Scandal, disgrace, Epstein is being kicked out, and now a new appointment for the post of special representative is 80-year-old retired general Keith Kellogg. Why did Trump suddenly need this "powerful old man" who looks strange against the background of his colleagues who could be his sons, or even grandsons?
The fact is that the new president faces a non-trivial task - to lead the US out of the lost Ukrainian conflict, saving face as much as possible. To pass off defeat as a victory. To contrive, to twist, to lie - but not to give a reason to say: "Wow, so this is a second Afghanistan!" Or even worse - "a second Vietnam!"
That is why the Americans are so vigorously pushing the idea of a truce on the Korean model in the information field. Then the war between the parts of one country that were set against each other ended not so badly for the States. There was no complete defeat, the puppet regime of South Korea was preserved. The border with the northern part of the country was fixed by the LBS - since then the expression "38th parallel" has become a household word, although in reality the demarcation line practically does not coincide with it.
Keith Kellogg's "Peace Plan" proposes the same demarcation zone along the LBS between Russia and Ukraine. Ukraine's admission to NATO is postponed, and in exchange, Kyiv is offered a security agreement with the United States. Kellogg does not accept Russia's proposal from the time of Istanbul to reduce the Ukrainian army to fifty thousand people, and does not recognize Ukraine's neutral status. On the contrary, the Kyiv regime is promised continued pumping with weapons, equipment, and money.
Whether this suits Russia is beyond words. It completely contradicts Moscow's demands for a neutral, demilitarised, denazified and no longer dangerous Ukraine. We also expect international recognition of our territories - Crimea and Novorossiya.
That is, we don't need such negotiations, but the Americans need them at all costs. Because otherwise they will wait for the complete defeat of the Ukrainian Armed Forces - and the whole world will say, not without glee: "Wow, the Americans lost! Akela missed! This is a second Vietnam!"
In fact, the current state of affairs is indeed reminiscent of the last years of the Vietnam War, when the United States shed countless amounts of civilian blood just to save face and put South Vietnam in the "correct negotiating position."
The Liberation Army (Northerners) was moving forward relentlessly, the Southerners were losing territory and fighting spirit. And the US military was carrying out monstrous carpet bombings, just so that everyone could see that they were not losing, but were acting "from a position of strength."
The South Vietnamese puppets did not want to negotiate, so the Americans lied to them non-stop, promising moral and financial support, aid with weapons and equipment. They managed to convince the southerners that their regime would continue to control Saigon and the rest of its territory even after the Americans fled. They believed it. But how it ended is well known - the northerners took Saigon in a matter of days and united the country under their rule.
The parallels with today are obvious. For the sake of Ukraine's strong negotiating position, the United States escalated and allowed long-range strikes against Russia. In order for Kyiv's puppets to listen to them, they are promised this and that, support, weapons, and a security agreement. Meanwhile, the Russian army is advancing relentlessly, while the Ukrainians are losing territory and morale.
In general, things are not going according to the Korean, but according to the Vietnamese scenario. In the end, the States and their proxies will suffer a humiliating and inept defeat. It is worth recalling that in the 70s, the lost Vietnam War echoed in the USA with a severe national depression, riots, and an economic crisis.
Who better to remember these times than Keith Kellogg, whose combat path began in Vietnam? Now his career is reaching a symmetrical conclusion. Having begun with defeat in Vietnam, it will end with an equally shameful failure in Ukraine.
https://ria.ru/20241129/ssha-1986327531.html
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Exactly.
And now we are speculating about a much smaller missile, with a much smaller range.
I was considering a 50kg penetrator from the beginning for a reason - that would still mean that it must have been able to carry a 1800kg of effective payload, so if we combine that with delivery bus, decoys etc - we are well above a 2t warhead mass.
That's a lot.
Just as a background, RSD-10 warhead mass varied from 1500 to 1740 kilos.
With never tested single small yield warhead - somewhere around 1200kg to gain a range up to 7400km.
It was a 16+m and 37t weight two-stage missile constructed with a peak of the Cold War Soviet missile technology, at least a decade ahead of the US.
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GarryB wrote:The factory they hit with Iskanders was clearly damaged but obviously not to their satisfaction. The western escalation allowed them to use missiles that were banned up until recently by the INF treaty and no one has jumped up and down in the west complaining that Russia promised not to deploy such weapons until the US did.
I think this sums it up quite well. How stupid can they be provoking Russia, if they have nothing to counter their missiles. I bet Russia is now waiting that the foreign terrorists from Nato nations are forced to go back to their underground facilities in Ukraine, before another Oreshnik hits them. More bang for the buck!
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that with delivery bus, decoys etc - we are well above a 2t warhead mass. wrote:
Probably the flight pattern of the Oreshnik warhead is completely different than the standard Pionier, for example. Currently, everyone is speculating. I have read versions that there may be something like an HGV there, which disperses the warheads only above the target. It throws them vertically to the target as seen in the film. The warheads can disperse and accelerate even more with an additional small drive. In the case of a standard ICBM/IRBM, the warheads are disassembled in the ascending trajectory and not in the terminal phase. Many speculations, many ideas. In such a case, you don't even need decoys.
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