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    Oreshnik missile system (IRBM)

    Eugenio Argentina
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:06 am

    🇷🇺🇩🇪"Bitter realization: Germany will be defenseless against 'Oreshnik' - secret report of the German Foreign Ministry

    - Minister Annalena Berbock's office commissioned an internal government analysis on ballistic missile defense for Ukraine and for Germany, which was assigned to a Bundeswehr liaison officer at the German Foreign Ministry together with air defense experts.

    - "A bitter realization: Germany would be defenseless against an Oreshnik attack. With Patriot systems in service, the Bundeswehr currently has no effective means of defense against such ballistic missiles," Bild states.

    - The secret document reports: "Patriot is not suitable for countering a long-range ballistic missile such as the Oreshnik. A possible interception would be more of a lucky shot." This is due to the warhead's approach speed, maneuverability, and multi-shot capability.


    Oreshnik missile system (IRBM) - Page 15 Gf10KUKW0AAB2Sb?format=png&name=900x900

    https://t.me/Slavyangrad/116149

    Cool

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Dec 28, 2024 1:13 am

    I must say if they were retarded enough to even bother simulating an attempt to shoot it down with a patriot they are at the vanguard of stupidity.

    Those hundreds of think tanks have to grift that grant money somehow..

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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 28, 2024 6:10 am

    I must say if they were retarded enough to even bother simulating an attempt to shoot it down with a patriot they are at the vanguard of stupidity.

    To be fair the PAC-3 model Patriot was the design optimised for intercepting ballistic threats, but if the target is a solid lump of metal you would have to wonder what sort of interceptor would be required to stop it...

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    Post  Arrow Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:14 am

    PAC 3 was never designed against IRBM. Stop this nonsense. Against IRBM is SM 3 BLOCK II.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:03 pm

    PAC 3 was never designed against IRBM.

    I never said it was...

    I said:
    PAC-3 model Patriot was the design optimised for intercepting ballistic threats,

    It was designed for protecting the US Army from enemy ballistic weapons.

    US ripping up the INF treaty has led to it being completely and totally inadequate... pathetic even... because it can't even intercept Iskander or Kinzhal that have been in service for quite some time...

    Against IRBM is SM 3 BLOCK II.

    Of course their naval missiles wont do any better because none of them are designed to hit targets actively trying to evade interception, but more importantly as I pointed out... they are not designed to intercept kinetic penetrators either so even if they hit the target it might not do anything at all.

    Might shoot down a few more Hornets though... or maybe an Iranian Airbus or two.
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    Post  Kiko Sat Dec 28, 2024 2:58 pm

    Russia has chosen a new method of nuclear deterrence for NATO, by Alena Zadorozhnaya for VZGLYAD. 12.28.2024.

    Experts explain changes to Russia's nuclear doctrine.

    Changes in the nuclear doctrine, development and testing of the Oreshnik missile. The listed actions of Russia in 2024 changed the reality of nuclear deterrence in Europe and the world as a whole. Moscow sent a clear signal to Washington and Brussels: its security interests will not be trampled with impunity. Importantly, this was done without moving up the escalation ladder. What are we talking about?

    The outgoing year was marked by a number of changes in Russia's approaches to strategic security: in November, President Vladimir Putin approved amendments to the Fundamentals of State Policy in the Field of Nuclear Deterrence, clarifying the parameters for the use of nuclear weapons (NW). Now, according to the document , Moscow considers aggression by a non-nuclear country with the support of a nuclear one as a joint attack by both parties.

    Nuclear deterrence, we recall, is realized by the possibility of using nuclear weapons in the event of publicly designated threats to our country. It is the rules for using nuclear weapons that are contained in the corresponding doctrine - so that potential enemies of Russia clearly understand the red lines that cannot be crossed in relations with our country.

    Moscow later backed up the doctrine update by testing a new medium-range ballistic missile, the Oreshnik, which was used to attack the Yuzhmash plant in Dnepropetrovsk. The attack was a response to the use of American and British weapons to strike deep into Russia.

    In addition, the Oreshnik missiles can be used in a nuclear version. Against this background, it is important to note that in the near future the complexes will be deployed on the territory of Belarus. As analysts noted , this step, taking into account the updates to the doctrine, will allow balancing NATO's numerical superiority in Europe.

    "The part of the doctrine that concerns nuclear weapons has undergone seemingly minor but very significant changes," noted military expert Alexei Anpilogov. "The document retains the main principle that Russia will not carry out the first nuclear strike."

    "However, the document expands the list of possible actions by the enemy that could lead to Moscow using nuclear weapons," the expert recalled. According to him, the authors of the updates thus took into account in the doctrine the set of actions that can be interpreted as a hybrid war. "For example, the Armed Forces of Ukraine support a number of nuclear powers that use the enemy's strike capabilities to try to influence our nuclear potential," the analyst specified.

    The expert recalled that the Ukrainian Armed Forces have tried several times to use unmanned vehicles, as well as cruise and operational-tactical missiles, to strike at Russia's nuclear infrastructure. The update of the doctrine publicly indicates that Russia considers it has the right to respond to such actions by using nuclear weapons. However, the expert makes a reservation that this does not necessarily mean that these steps will be implemented.

    "The Russian military-political leadership soberly assesses the prospects for the escalation spiral to unwind. It is clear that the use of nuclear weapons will immediately transfer the conflict to a higher level of danger. And here the "Oreshnik" factor arises," the specialist noted.

    Experts also noted that thanks to the Oreshnik, Moscow has gained the ability to solve military tasks using non-nuclear means that could previously only be solved using nuclear weapons. The thing is that the speed of the Oreshnik warheads when hitting a target is up to 3 km per second, and the kinetic energy of the warhead allows it to inflict much greater destruction on the enemy than even a conventional large-caliber munition.

    The president also drew attention to this in December : "You spoke about tightening the nuclear doctrine. We are not tightening the nuclear doctrine - we are improving it. But by and large, what we need now is not to improve the nuclear doctrine, but "Oreshnik", because, if you look at it, a sufficient number of these modern weapons systems practically puts the absence of the need to use nuclear weapons on the brink."

    “In the context of the ‘escalation ladder’, the use of the complex in a non-nuclear version (when only kinetic parts are used) is an excellent option for destroying various bunkers and protected command posts of the enemy,” he explains. “Destruction or damage to these objects can have a sobering effect on any aggressor.”

    "The deployment of the Oreshnik gives Moscow a serious lever in non-nuclear deterrence. But if necessary, the munition can be made nuclear. There were several hits of six shells at Yuzhmash. If the system carries the same number of nuclear warheads, then we will be talking about a completely different destructive force," the analyst emphasized.

    The expert also recalled Vladimir Putin's agreement to deliver the Oreshnik system to Belarus. As the expert explained, this was Moscow's preemptive response to the announced appearance of American INF missiles in Germany in 2026. "Thus, we are showing in advance that any plans to deploy medium- and shorter-range missiles in Europe will cause retaliatory steps.

    These measures were prepared by us, as they say, in the course of learned homework, the speaker explained. The interlocutor also pointed out the bravado in foreign media that Oreshnik is a myth. Previously, the Zircon and Kinzhal systems were called “fictions and cartoons” in the West. “That was the case until the same missiles flew into a key facility in Ukraine. After that, NATO countries simply had to shut up,” Anpilogov said.

    Vadim Kozyulin, head of the IAMP center at the Diplomatic Academy of the Russian Foreign Ministry, shares a similar point of view. According to him, the appearance of Oreshnik allowed Moscow to send a clearer deterrent signal to the West, and the update of the nuclear doctrine added practical content to the document.

    "The same applies to our rivalry within the INF Treaty. The US decision to deploy medium-range missiles in Germany has created new threats to Russia's security. Therefore, the deployment of the Oreshnik in Belarus is intended to mitigate the threat. We are not going to sit back in a situation where Washington tramples on our interests," the source says.

    "Every step the West takes on the 'escalation ladder' will receive a proportionate response from Russia. At the same time, there are still adequate and attentive politicians in the West who understand the danger of the current situation. It remains to be hoped that sober people in the US and EU will be able to stop in time," Kozyulin concluded.

    https://m.vz.ru/politics/2024/12/28/1305387.html

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    Post  kvs Sat Dec 28, 2024 3:38 pm

    A detail relevant to the hypersonic weapon subject is that the kinetic energy and resulting temperature is enough to cause sub-molecular
    energy changes and this includes chemistry. Such effects are absent in the case of slower projectiles such as shells and sub Mach 5 missiles.
    The material is only heated.

    The critical innovation with real hypersonic missiles is the materials used and the control capability. These projectiles are coated by a plasma
    sheath which interferes with any EM signal.

    The US had a "rods from God" concept which it failed to develop. The Oreshnik is a functional equivalent that works. Also, the Oreshnik demonstrates
    that Russia has the capability to use conventional means to obliterate any target around the planet. A wet dream of US war planners. It does not
    matter that we have only an IRBM demonstration. As if Russia couldn't carry over the technology to ICBMs. I suspect the Sarmat will host such
    hypersonic elements.





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    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Sat Dec 28, 2024 6:07 pm

    As if Russia couldn't carry over the technology to ICBMs. I suspect the Sarmat will host such
    hypersonic elements.

    Why would they need that? The us government are such emotional bitches that they will perceive no difference between kinetic or nuclear attacks on their precious leftist shithole.

    Not to mention that it would be a waste of a missile that could wipe out a few cities.
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    Post  Hole Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:20 pm

    You could use Sarmat in conventional mode against an opponent on the other side of the world.
    Or even against ships if the warheads are properly guided and the "rods" can come down in close proximity
    to each other.

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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Sun Dec 29, 2024 12:53 pm

    Slavyangrad, [29/12/2024 08:36]
    ORESHNIK IN DEPTH

    Part 1 of 3

    I was honoured and humbled to have had my recent piece on Oreshnik missile warhead composition (https://t.me/Slavyangrad/115916) discussed by Mr. Alexander Mercouris in his latest program (https://youtu.be/NqCZH7PW0j4?si=YQ1ymt6kTGeZq9AS&t=3062).

    I will use this as an opportunity to expand "a little" on what I wrote, in order to explain my thought processes and provide more detail about my working hypothesis and its implications. It gets a bit technical at times and for that I'm sorry.

    Once again let me stress I am not an engineer, though I have a science background which lends to interpretation of scientific reports such as the one I referenced in my post. My specialisation is not in chemistry or metallurgy, so I rely heavily on the peer-reviewed linked reference (Zhao et al), its inferences and bibliography.

    My thought process: We really didn't have much to go on. We got grainy video of Oreshnik submunitions impacting. We know they were delivered by a large ballistic missile, and the impact was at high hypersonic speed. We watched, read and heard analyses and discussions by Mr Mercouris, Professor Ted Postol, and the Millenium 7 channel. After some back and forth, they settled on the conclusion that lacking further evidence, the Oreshnik missile delivered hypersonic inert metal rods which did little more than punch holes in whatever it hit.

    Mr. Mercouris drew attention to the fact that the above conclusion failed to explain why President Putin spoke so highly and confidently about the weapon. He also pointed out the complete Ukrainian black out of any media reports or imagery from the targeted Yuzhmash factory complex. If the weapon was indeed inert, why not show the "undamaged" target area? I credit these astute observations for motivating me to investigate further.

    In his discussions, Mr. Mercouris spoke of a source who said Oreshnik may have delivered metal explosive munitions known as hextol. I was unable to find any related literature, however the idea of a metal-based explosive piqued my interest and down the rabbit hole of published science papers I went, until I learned about Energetic Structural Materials (ESMs).

    Slavyangrad, [29/12/2024 08:36]
    ORESHNIK IN DEPTH (continued)

    Part 2 of 3

    Energetic Structural Materials

    ESMs are active structural materials consisting primarily of alloys and composites using active metals such as Al, Zr, Ni, Mg, B, etc. Aluminium-based ESMs have good energy release characteristics, but have low density, low strength and low permeability.

    W (tungsten) is much more dense than Al or any of the other active metals listed above, and has much better strength and penetrative capacity. Thermodynamically, tungsten has one of the highest oxidation heat release potentials compared to all other elements - however tungsten has high thermal inertia and low adiabatic flame temperature in air, which impedes its ignition and self-sustaining combustion, even in hypersonic impact.

    The report by Zhao et al mentions that an alloy of W and Al could enable and sustain W ignition, however the solid solubility limit of Al in W (15.9%) means a conventional W-Al alloy would not contain enough Al to do so. Zhao et al overcame this using an intensive mechanical alloying process, resulting in an ultra-fine, supersaturated solid solution powder of Al-W, with a density of 6.44g/cm3 (approximately a third that of pure tungsten). The powder could then be fabricated into hard composite projectiles using hot pressing. these projectiles were then fired at high supersonic velocities through steel plates into an observation chamber.

    The result of the experiments of Zhao et al was an ESM projectile with both highly penetrative qualities as well as high explosive potential, which (importantly) increased exponentially with impact velocity. The high proportion of Al in the composite enabled and sustained tungsten combustion.

    After penetration, the W-Al composite ESM projectile underwent complete plastic deformation and formed a cloud of W and Al particles, which ignited in a reaction process which included an extremely high-temperature field reaching many thousands of degrees - hot enough that any unburned tungsten particles were turned into molten droplets (tungsten's melting point is 3,422 degrees C). It is noteworthy that the experiment by Zhao et al achieved these results without including any form of oxidizer in the composite.

    Slavyangrad, [29/12/2024 08:37]
    ORESHNIK IN DEPTH (continued from above)

    Part 3 of 3

    Discussion
    The experimental results reported by Zhao et al leave no doubt of the penetrative and explosive potential of a tungsten-aluminium ESM munition. My interpretation of the report is framed by my own effort to connect the dots with regards to possible Oreshnik submunitions.

    In my original post, I estimated that such a W-Al composite munition, striking at Mach 10 could yield an explosive energy release rate which measured volumetrically, may be as much as 10 times that of TNT. This was based on a simple numbers extrapolation from the experimental results of Zhao et al. Considering that those numbers were for an ESM composite containing no oxidizing material, I think my estimate is fair and even very conservative.

    If we add a solid oxidiser to the composite such as pottasium chlorate (KClO3), then it is very safe to assume the combustion, heat and pressure generated by the munition after initial penetration would be greatly increased.

    What would happen when a full-scale, oxidized, 100kg W-Al composite ESM projectile strikes the Earth at Mach 10? We can only draw inferences from the limited existing data such as Zhao et al, and draw conclusions based on logical, plausible premises grounded in established theory.

    In this case, I propose that the Oreshnik missile delivered 36 submunitions, each consisting of approximately 100kg of W(Al60) or similar composite, presumably combined with an oxidiser such as potassium chlorate. Everything that follows from here is based on that premise, and the premise that my conclusions inferred from Zhao et al are correct.

    Each of Oreshnik's 6 buses delivered 6 of these 100kg W(Al60) rods, and each group of 6 rods fell in a tight, circular formation, impacting at 3200m/s. The kinetic energy and velocity of each projectile was such that each munition penetrated through any surface buildings and disappeared into the foundations underground. in the process, the 6 munitions disintegrated and joined into a distributed, superheated elemental cloud of aluminium, tungsten and oxidizer.

    The explosive conflagration of the cloud created a high temperature field reaching many thousands of degrees Celsius, hot enough for the aluminium and tungsten particles to burn completely. The heat and pressure was so intense that everything caught within the field including metals, rock and concrete melted and was vaporized. The pressure wave from the conflagration was such that the surface of the ground along with any buildings was lifted up, until the overpressure underground subsided, at which point everything above the impact points collapsed into the molten cavity below. All that remained was a large crater, filled with molten lava. First responders arriving at the Yuzmash factory, saw what looked like 6 small volcanoes filled with glowing magma.

    Then again, I may be completely mistaken, and the Oreshnik warhead was in fact just some shovels melted into crude hunks of iron which had little to no effect, and it's all just a Russian bluff.

    @Slavyangrad

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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Sun Dec 29, 2024 1:03 pm

    Oreshnik and Russia’s nuclear doctrine update: Why they matter - Part 1

    Russia took two critical steps to bolster its defenses in 2024: updating its nuclear doctrine and test-firing the advanced Oreshnik missile (https://t.me/geopolitics_live/38875).

    Nuclear doctrine:

    Russia’s updated nuclear doctrine (https://t.me/geopolitics_live/37666) aims to “put the West on notice,” Larry Johnson, retired CIA intelligence officer and State Department official, tells Sputnik.

    How it relates to Russia-West relations:

    🔴Western countries “are creating a more dangerous situation and creating a direct threat to Russia, which is prepared to respond. That's the message Moscow is trying to send (https://t.me/geopolitics_live/37772),” Johnson says, praising the Kremlin’s adherence to key agreements.

    🔴“Russia has always signed these in good faith and abided by them, whether it was like the START Treaty or the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty or their Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty or the Minsk Agreement – Minsk 1 and Minsk 2,” the ex-CIA officer emphasizes.

    🔴“It's always the West that's betraying those agreements," he notes, adding “at some point Russia will wake up and realize that this goes beyond a communication gulf (https://t.me/geopolitics_live/37746).”

    In November, President Vladimir Putin authorized the updated nuclear doctrine (https://t.me/geopolitics_live/38924), detailing scenarios where nuclear weapons might be used, such as attacks with conventional weapons against Russia or Belarus that threaten sovereignty or territorial integrity.

    #2024Overview

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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Sun Dec 29, 2024 1:04 pm

    Oreshnik and Russia’s nuclear doctrine update: Why they matter - Part 2 👉Part 1

    Oreshnik strike:

    “They don’t care. They think their continued allowance of Ukraine to launch Storm Shadow missiles (https://t.me/geopolitics_live/39464)into Russian territory and kill Russian citizens is just another message,” Larry Johnson, retired CIA intelligence officer and State Department official, tells Sputnik.

    Putin confirmed that Russia successfully test-fired the Oreshnik missile on November 21, striking a Ukrainian military facility in Dnepropetrovsk.

    The strike was a response to Kiev using US- and UK-supplied missiles to hit facilities in Russia’s Kursk and Bryansk regions (https://t.me/geopolitics_live/39454).

    Part 2 👉Part 1

    https://t.me/geopolitics_live/39942

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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:31 am

    Slavyangrad, [30/12/2024 06:01]
    Oreshnik Q & A

    Part 1 of 2

    Some technical questions appeared in the comments section of my article from yesterday, "Oreshnik in depth" (https://t.me/Slavyangrad/116233).

    I will answer the questions posed to the best of my ability, and in the interests of further clarifying my own thought processes and conclusions. It's important to remember that while based on a science foundation including actual experimental data, my visualisation of the Oreshnik's weapon effects is the result of a measure of extrapolation and speculation. This is due to the limited hard data we have.

    Q: Why don't the videos of the strike show visible explosions at the impact site?

    A: The 100 kg tungsten-aluminum projectile traveling at Mach 10 would penetrate approximately 20-30 meters into the Earth, assuming typical soil or rock density (~2000 kg/m³). I believe the Oreshnik munitions penetrated deep underground before the reaction of its materials reached the conflagration point. Most of the energy released was underground. That's why there is no massive fireball above ground at the moment of impact. There would likely have been plasma plumes visible for a while after the strike, however the video we have is too short to see that.

    Q: How can any chemical reactions even occur at such high temperatures? Wouldn't the elements all be in a plasma state?

    A: As a result of the kinetic and chemical energy release, temperatures may well be high enough to result in plasma states, and a plasma plume would likely persist for a while afterwards. However most of the energy release would have occurred before that happens.

    Q: Why not just use depleted uranium?

    A: DU has been overhyped ever since the first Persian Gulf War in 1991, and perhaps because of certain video games such as World of Tanks. It's highly effective in armour-penetrating ammunition, and is also used as a nosecone on US bunker-busting bombs, however its effect in a weapon such as Oreshnik has no comparison to the tungsten-aluminium composite suggested here. It would also be uncharacteristic of Russian armed forces to use DU, especially on Dnipropetrovsk, which according to the constitution is Russian territory.

    Slavyangrad, [30/12/2024 06:01]
    Oreshnik Q & A

    Part 2 of 2

    Q: What is the actual destructive force or how much energy is released by each 100kg rod? What is the TNT or known weapon equivalent? What is the total energy delivered by Oreshnik in MJ, GJ, KT, etc?

    A: Upon impact, the 100kg projectile traveling at Mach 10 (12350 km/h or 3400m/s) delivers an immense amount of kinetic energy. The kinetic energy release of each 100kg rod would be 578MJ, equivalent to 138kg of TNT per rod. This energy is converted to heat, pressure, and mechanical work. The KE of each rod is used up primarily in penetrating the Earth (up to 30m as mentioned above), and creating a hypersonic shockwave, which trapped deep underground causes intense heat and pressure, vaporising surrounding material, and accelerating exothermic reactions between the tungsten, aluminium and oxidizer particles.

    In the extreme heat and pressure caused by the hypersonic shockwave and friction of impact, supported by the aluminum’s reactivity and the oxidizer’s oxygen supply, the tungsten particles burn in a self-sustaining manner. This leads to the secondary energy release, being an intense fireball, overpressure and high-temperature field. My estimate of the energy release rate of the hypothesized tungsten-aluminium composite is based on the results of Zhao et al and extrapolated to account for the Mach 10 velocity. According to that calculation, which is an extrapolation and does not account for the presence of an oxidizer, the chemical energy release rate of the oreshnik submunition is at least 10.5Kj per gram, which is 2.5x that of TNT. Therefore, the explosive power of each rod is equivalent to approximately 250kg of TNT. For comparison, a Russian FAB500 bomb contains 201kg of TNT.

    The total TNT equivalent of Oreshnik therefore is the sum of its payload's kinetic energy and chemical energy. Assuming a total of 36 100kg submunitions, each delivering 578MJ kinetic energy, plus 1050MJ in chemical energy, we arrive at 58.6GJ of energy in total, or 14KT TNT equivalent.

    IMPORTANT: I strongly believe this to be a conservative estimate.

    If we want to compare purely from an energy perspective, 14KT is equivalent to 70 FAB500 bombs or 16 FAB1500 bombs, also equivalent to the approximate average yield of the US M388/W54 Davy Crockett small tactical nuclear weapon. However, it's important to note that Oreshnik, which combines extreme kinetic energy release with high energy, high temperature explosive release deep underground, delivers that energy in a way very different to any of those weapons.

    @Slavyangrad

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    Post  kvs Mon Dec 30, 2024 2:36 pm

    These estimates are plausible and 14 kton TNT equivalent is almost the same as what was dropped on Hiroshima (15 kton). The important detail is that
    the 14 kton was much more concentrated and in the ground instead of heating the air above the ground to produce a mushroom cloud. One could
    properly state that a mushroom cloud is a massive waste of bomb energy.

    We have total censorship of satellite imagery. There must be a large pit where the Yuzhmash factory was as the underground floors will have all been
    destroyed. As usual, Russia's deciders are quasi-retarded and think that releasing satellite imagery is some sort of information compromise. These
    idiots never heard of image processing.

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    Post  Arrow Mon Dec 30, 2024 2:47 pm

    Kinetic impact with a force equivalent to 14 kT is complete nonsense. It says a lot about this article.
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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:20 pm

    Someone has made a monkey error adding zeros.
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    Post  kvs Mon Dec 30, 2024 6:25 pm

    @Arrow

    Your reading skills are sorely lacking. The tungsten-aluminum reaction releases energy twice that of the kinetic amount.

    The "monkey" has produced numbers. The critics have done nothing other than complain.

    1 kg of TNT releases 4.184 MJ of energy. The "monkey" post sums the energy of all the rods.



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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 30, 2024 6:46 pm

    It still won't add up bro.
    When I calculated a pure KE equivalent of a rod, it was somehow equal to a 500kg bomb/warhead.
    I was considering a 50 kg penetrator because even at such a mass it would require a payload of more than 2t.
    More than all modern missiles Russkie operates, aside of Satan/Sarmat.
    And more than RSD-10...
    Besides a 14kT explosion would devastate a wider area than the factory only, even if underground. The whole of Yuzhmash is surrounded by urban infrastructure. If those would have been blown - ukrs would whine and yapp about that 24/7. Just for propaganda purposes, presenting the attack as targeting civilians. There is a big mole and a hospital just next by ...
    I guess that we just need to wait until something will be revealed.
    The lack of any leaks speaks for itself.
    Let's wait.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue Dec 31, 2024 12:09 am

    Just for our reference and without implying claim of knowing how this thing works, an upper bound estimation of its firepower could be the following:

    If old RS-36 were used for the Oreshnik, with a throw-weight of lets say 12t instead of ca. 9 t (I am obviously taking it to the extreme, but why not), that would result in 36 warheads of ca. 333 kg. Considering KE + discussed enhancing effects twice that value, we would reach to an impact energy > 2,000MJ equivalent to ca. 225 kg Tritonal, which is a common filling of actual aviation bombs and more than twice as powerful in specific energy than TNT (ca. 9 MJ/kg). That amount of explosive is slightly above the actual filling of a Mk 83 1,000 pound bomb, which is a substantial weapon, though we do not know exactly how the destructive effects of Oreshnik differ in a qualitative way from conventional bombs, and this may be relevant. The entire payload of the missile would be then broadly equivalent to the load of one squadron B-17 bombers. Therefore it is easy to understand that 10 missiles could devastate a large area, specially since they are considered to be high precision weapons, and not tools for carpet bombing.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Dec 31, 2024 6:51 am

    The calc had a typo. It should be around 14t of TNT compared to the W54 with 20t yield.

    This points to a precision strike weapon first and foremost. The novelty is the penetration potential coupled with an unprecedented 36 aimpoints that can be serviced in one go. Of course its also impossible to intercept with any of NATO ballistic missile defences.

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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jan 07, 2025 8:05 pm

    Claimed Partisan photos of massive hole

    NOTE ALAMO COMMENT BELOW I have only not deleted it as it seems by many comments to be a stunning bit of faking.

    https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news-selections/world-news/first-photo-of-site-hit-by-russian-oreshnik-missile-complete-devastation


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    Post  ALAMO Tue Jan 07, 2025 8:08 pm

    IT was called a fake a ling time ago. Still not sure if Has been.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:22 am

    Claimed fake by whom?

    Kiev?

    They said it barely did any damage so of course they would call this sort of photo fake... but looking at it who can be sure one way or the other?

    We have no reference from other IRBM kinetic warhead weapons that have hit a Cold War bunker structure designed to withstand nuclear attacks...

    Interesting that webpage said:

    Imagine if they loaded explosives into those missiles?

    Because loading it with explosives would actually make it lighter and bigger and therefore slower and would actually do less damage.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:35 am

    By a lot of sources.
    Still, it is nothing proven ya' or nay'.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:19 pm



    At least it can damage buried structures & destroy sites on the surface.
    In fact, there r many different weapon systems that can be improvised into something they were not designed for, & it happened before numerous times.

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