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    Oreshnik missile system (IRBM)

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sat Dec 21, 2024 12:51 pm

    Naaaah, it is not a matter of long-range ballistic missiles being unable to hit a carrier. Sure those can. But it must be designed for the task. You can hit a car on the move with Iskander, and correct its trajectory remotely via A-50 or other platforms. No problem with that. But it is a different weapon system.

    And sure that the payload can be different - Putin confirmed that. But as I said - there is limitation in making them smaller, as those would deaccelerate much faster. You would get a lighter and smaller warhead with much-compromised lethality. Me thinks.

    And yes, I was considering Columbus effect, as VVP again confirmed "new physical principles". We do know that when he says something alike - he is serious.

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    Post  Arrow Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:06 pm

    ou can hit a car on the move with Iskander, and correct its trajectory remotely via A-50 or other platforms. No problem with that. But it is a different weapon system. wrote:

    Yes, if I remember correctly, the Iskander optoelectronic warhead provides accuracy up to 3-5m. But that's for special targets and usually moving ones.

    And yes, I was considering Columbus effect, as VVP again confirmed "new physical principles". We do know that when he says something alike - he is serious. wrote:

    It sounds almost like science fiction. Putin added another interesting thing, that the Oreshnik strike could be comparable to the use of a nuclear weapon. This would be very consistent with the Columba effect, which could produce the effect of an explosion of about 1 kT underground. I wonder how far seismographs can register such an underground explosion. I honestly have never heard of anyone working on explosive charges based on this effect. It would be quite a breakthrough, something between a nuclear explosion and a conventional one without radiation.

    They worked on miniature nuclear charges based only on nuclear fusion, etc., but it probably didn't work out. Besides, they also leave a trace of radiation through the emission of fast neutrons from thermonuclear fusion.

    P.S. The Russians once created an incredible thermonuclear charge for mining. Power of about 150 kT with a purity of 99.85 from thermonuclear fusion. The charge was based on gaseous deuterium. It probably had neutron radiation absorbers and the amount of fissile material gave only 200 tons of explosive power. This is the fission reaction of only 20 grams of U-235. This charge was not suitable for military purposes, but in mining work it left a minimal radiation trace. The Americans did a similar experiment but with a larger charge, in the 60s. Ripple technology. But this is a discussion about nuclear charges etc.

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    Post  Arrow Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:33 pm

    was wondering if they could change the payload, and instead of let's say 36x50 kg penetrators use 360x5kg. wrote: wrote:

    They should also be very dense to efficiently penetrate the atmosphere. In the case of a penetrator made of Tungsten, Uranium, the density will be much greater than a standard charge, or even nuclear charges, which are already quite dense. A suitably profiled slender rod, etc. would slow down more slowly in the atmosphere than a standard MIRV.
    The kinetic warhead can heat up to a huge temperature, which would perhaps even be advisable, it adds additional energy to the material. As a result of the impact with great speed we have another energy package. The most important question is whether it would be able to cause the Columba explosion. Putin reported that the warhead heats up to 4000C. In the case of classic conventional charges and even more nuclear ones (which are very complex and delicate in their construction) this is an undesirable phenomenon.
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Sun Dec 22, 2024 9:58 pm

    Putin: "Oreshnik" is not the event of the year, it is a historic event in the rocket and space industry. Nothing like this has ever happened before, it is the first time this has happened with this type of weapon. There were different points of view on this matter in the Ministry of Defense. In the end, I joined those who believed that it: a) should be produced and gave a direct order to do so, to allocate the necessary resources, and b) agreed with those who believed that the time had come to test it in combat conditions. So, of course, this is part of my job.

    https://t.me/Slavyangrad/115834

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    Post  Arrow Sun Dec 22, 2024 11:16 pm

    Intriguing because Putin has never spoken like that about other ballistic missiles like Yars or Sarmat, or even Avangard. What is even more interesting about Oreshnik.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Dec 22, 2024 11:47 pm


    You can use this one anytime you feel like it so obviously it's nicer one



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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:50 am

    Regarding the strike on Yuzmash:

    ALAMO wrote:My guess is that it is just one more maskirovka effort, and what we see are the results of earlier strikes—Yuzhmash has been attacked multiple times in the last three years.

    Seems like your instincts were on the mark.  Amerikanets has back tracked on his analysis once it became clear that the "recent images" he purchased from a commercial sat imagery company only show previous damage prior to the Oreshnik strike.

    https://www.amerikanets.com/p/mea-maxima-culpa

    I would suggest that these companies are subject to (probably secret) gag orders of some kind that obligate them to censor their imagery over specific sites as nominated by Western intel.  You can buy their imagery but its photoshopped and is essentially useless. Shouldn't be suprised I suppose, given the massive propaganda campaign underway by the Monkey Empire and their frenzied efforts to silence alternative media and independent analysts.

    Credit to Amerikanets for admitting his error.  That is something that Western liars, hacks and fools will never do.

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 23, 2024 8:26 am

    On the other hand, imagine that you are ordering and paying to a commercial operator for satellite photos, only to reveal that those are fake Laughing
    That slightly undermines your trust for the western values and democracy I would guess Laughing Laughing

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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:05 am

    The smaller those became - the faster deacceleration proceeds.

    Technically no, the lighter they become the faster they decellerate... if you can make them smaller without making them lighter then aerodynamically they improve in performance.

    Like the difference between an APFSDS dart... its aerodynamic drag is based on the shape of its nose and its weight... by making it shorter you reduce its weight and reduce its performance to move through the air an through armour, but increase its velocity because the gun that is launching it can accelerate a lighter object faster in the available barrel space.

    The target in the first attack was a long string of buildings and no one complained about something that was not the target factory getting hit so I really don't think the buses or the penetrators are flung towards the target at random like MRVs are scattered to deal with area targets.

    For hitting a deep bunker then fewer penetrators that are heavier will reach deeper into the ground, but for shallower bunkers or ships that might be a dozen floors but not thick concrete floors reinforced by steel... think of it like penetrating a tank from above... something designed to obliterate the frontal armour of a tank dropped vertically by a drone on top of a tank will massively over penetrate... so attacking from the front you might want a Kornet warhead able to penetrate 1.4m of armour, but to penetrate from the top even ancient 73mm HEAT warheads from obsolete missiles like RPG-7 or even RPG-18 rocket warheads would be good enough because the roof armour is relatively thin and the internal structure of the tank has soft stuff like people and ammo and fuel and then any penetration through the floor and into the ground is simply wasted penetration.

    A deep bunker structure like the target that was hit justifies heavy penetrators, but a ship.... even as big as an aircraft carrier is not going to need that level of penetration and the heavy penetrators that were used would end up in the sea water below the ship and wasted.

    Having 5 times more penetrators that are 5 times lighter would spread the damage around on a platform not designed to take top attack hits...

    The heavy penetrators used could be used with a super cavitating nose shape to allow submarines to be engaged.... the Russians have developed supercavitating 30mm cannon shells that allow them to hit things just under the water... And of course supercavitating pistol and rifle rounds also for use in water too.

    If we will leave the new physical principles hypothesis for a moment, making them smaller won't pay off

    I would guess the new physical principles describes the energetic explosions with solid metal penetrators and the Columb effect.

    No one has managed to do this at greater distances. The Soviets once worked intensively on hitting an aircraft carrier with an ICBM. China claims that they can do it at a distance of over 3000 km? But I wouldn't believe them on this matter. They supposedly messed around with the DF 26. The Russians can do this with the Kinzhal at a distance of 2000 km and that's probably the maximum for now when it comes to aeroballistic weapons against ships. Probably in the future, new solutions will allow for better CEP on ballistic missiles.

    The reason for the Iskander and Kinzhal having such precision is their optical seekers refining the impact point right up until impact... terminal guidance is what makes them effective and accurate and I would say the fact that the Hazelnut seemed to distribute its penetrators along the length of this target and didn't seem to hit anything else suggests it uses terminal guidance... whether optical or radar based... if it works with a building it will work with a ship.

    With 6 buses you could allocate a bus to a carrier and the remaining 5 buses to the AEGIS cruisers operating with the carrier.

    For use against the British Navy you could probably wipe out the entire operational fleet with one missile.

    Oreshnik can definitely have several different configurations of the platform carrying the warheads.

    It would make sense to have options for different warheads to engage different target types.

    Of course for soft area targets then a MRV warhead with nuclear warheads would be ideal for destroying a very large area target like Paris or London, but things like hitting ships or submarines underwater... or underwater pipes or tunnels or subways under rivers would be interesting targets too.

    Imagine hitting the thames river where the London underground goes through... punching a hole or 10 for water from the thames to enter their subway system would be devastating.... especially as at 19 minutes flight time people would head to the subway to be safe from a missile attack.

    It can be fun being the bad guy and thinking about all these evil things you can do with new weapons, but I would hope the west would realise they need to stop this poke the bear bullshit and grow the **** up.

    And sure that the payload can be different - Putin confirmed that. But as I said - there is limitation in making them smaller, as those would deaccelerate much faster. You would get a lighter and smaller warhead with much-compromised lethality. Me thinks.

    I don't agree... you can make them lighter by making the narrower... with less metal... the speeds we are talking about you don't need to worry about the penetrator folding or buckling, so a 60mm thick APFSDS dart that is 2m long, you could make 20mm thick and 2m long and it will be lighter and actually lower drag due to being thinner but the length means it still has weight and momentum to push through the air... its lighter weight will be more effected by the layers of a ships deck and the floors below it, but it will still slice through like a glowing knife through butter... it would likely bend and collapse on impact but the mass will carry it through multiple layers before it exploded, and I think multiple explosions would be more effective in taking down a carrier than a deeply dug bunker.

    It is going to be very much about maths and physics and I am sure they will have done all the calculations.

    If they want to kill some politicians or generals or above in some deep bunker, then the warhead they just used would be ideal IMHO, but as I have said for a softer target like a ship or oil rig or an underground metro or even a sub underwater then different shaped and weighted warheads would make sense.

    They could all have the supercavitating tip because I doubt that would degrade its penetration in other mediums at that flight speed.

    But they could have a range of shapes and numbers and weights of penetrators custom designed for very specific targets.

    For soft targets of course they could have MRVs with nuke warheads for large area targets and a heavy MT warhead for a single hard target once WWIII has kicked off.

    I mentioned in another threat, depending on what this missile is based from... if it is Bulava or Liner they could get a Typhoon class SSBN out of mothballs and load up 20 Hazelnuts with conventional warheads and something they can actually use without starting WWIII... and torpedo tube launched Kh-101 missiles with 4,500km range and conventional warheads to really stir the pot...

    Yes, if I remember correctly, the Iskander optoelectronic warhead provides accuracy up to 3-5m. But that's for special targets and usually moving ones.

    AFAIK it is the preferred option, but when the weather is bad, like a snow storm, the radar head becomes necessary.

    Note they can use them in terrain mode where fixed know visible targets can be used to reference a target that is difficult to see.

    In other words the seeker can be directed by visible features to hit something that is not visible.

    So for example you have four buildings on a property but your target is hidden under a tarp and its radar return is not good enough to get a lock so you can use the radar seeker to aim for a point x distance from this building and x distance from that building and x distance from the other building and x distance from the fourth building with angles included so it can hit the target directly without actually detecting it.

    Obviously recon has to find and identify the target of course.

    The TV seeker of the KH-29T works the same and allows a non contrasting target to be hit by aiming next to a contrasting target that it can get a lock on.

    Moving targets are much easier for optical and radar sensors to detect and track.

    You can use this one anytime you feel like it so obviously it's nicer one

    Which makes it practical to make quite a few of them.

    The most common problem with conventional weapons is that you make some and a war starts and you run out because you never make enough... a problem for the west obviously because Russia clearly has the capacity to make lots of weapons.

    Shouldn't be suprised I suppose, given the massive propaganda campaign underway by the Monkey Empire and their frenzied efforts to silence alternative media and independent analysts.

    If you reveal the truth that Russian weapons are effective then you are a propaganda mouthpiece for Putin and have to be fired from your job and cancelled from social media...

    On the other hand, imagine that you are ordering and paying to a commercial operator for satellite photos, only to reveal that those are fake Laughing
    That slightly undermines your trust for the western values and democracy I would guess Laughing Laughing

    Satellite photo companies are like gun runners... they are allowed to exist by the various shady organisations like the CIA on the condition they provide certain services. Stop following the rules and they will be Julian Assanged... in other words... you are getting American spy heroes killed so you get to go to jail...

    It doesn't matter that the information might shock the west into treading more carefully in the minefield it has found itself in, or in the case of Julian revealed evidence of war crimes going all the way to the top of US government...

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:10 am

    By "smaller" I meant lighter - it was clear out of context.

    It doesn't matter that the information might shock the west into treading more carefully in the minefield it has found itself in, or in the case of Julian revealed evidence of war crimes going all the way to the top of US government...

    Yup, and that is why I find it funny.
    Western values are so universal and solid, that they must cut off any other opinion and perspective to guard poor sheep... sorry, I mean valuable free citizen, from the Russian propaganda.

    Propaganda can be a photo. Or a film. Or a documentary. Things you can see and hear with your eyes and ears. You need protection from the mislead of your senses Laughing Laughing

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    Post  Arrow Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:25 am

    On the other hand, imagine that you are ordering and paying to a commercial operator for satellite photos, only to reveal that those are fake Laughing That slightly undermines your trust for the western values and democracy I would guess Laughing Laughing wrote:

    It must be admitted that such an action with falsifying photos has never been done, and by commercial companies at that. The consequences of the strike must be really interesting. The public will not find out about it quickly, and Russia and the USA know about it anyway. Very Happy

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:39 am

    I guess that those has been done more times than we can imagine.
    If you will check for example Google Maps, which is one of the highest resolution photos you can get for free, you will mark that on the spot.
    Check for Starokonstantinovka airfield - there is a whole part of it clearly blurred.
    Check the photos of cities under Russian administration, like Mariopol, Melitopol or Berdyansk. Photos are faked, they are signing the picks from 2022 as 2024. It is being done by purpose.
    Check for Israel photos - most of it is made deliberately with worse quality.
    Etc.
    On the other hand, they offer the latest and high res of Russian critical infrastructure, military bases, ports, railroad hubs...
    It is just one more tool of propaganda inflicted at every single level.
    Just an example of how absurd it can be - yet it is being used ...
    Check for pictures that Windows uses as "random screenshots". Showing landscapes, nature etc.
    There is NOT A SINGLE ONE of Russia.
    A fukin 1/5th of the planets landmass in non-existent. There are no natural wonders in Russia. No wildlife. No wild mountain rivers. No waterfalls. No historic architecture. There is nothing there - otherwise Windows would have shown that to a random user, right?

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    Post  Arrow Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:22 pm

    In fact, it is the largest reservoir of wildlife in the world. From a lot of incredible places untouched by civilization. As for the photos, you are right. Russian bases are often very carefully made and Western ones are blurred. wrote:
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    Post  Arrow Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:22 pm

    fukin 1/5th of the planets landmass in non-existent. There are no natural wonders in Russia. No wildlife. No wild mountain rivers. wrote:

    In fact, it is the largest reservoir of wildlife in the world. From a lot of incredible places untouched by civilization.

    As for the photos, you are right. Russian bases are often very carefully made and Western ones are blurred.

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    Post  Kiko Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:12 pm

    What makes the Oreshnik a fundamentally new weapon, by Alexey Anpilogov for VZGLYAD. 12.23.2024.

    "A historic event in the rocket and space industry." These are the words with which President Vladimir Putin described the appearance of Russia's newest missile, the Oreshnik. What characteristics specifically confirm the unique capabilities of this type of weapon and why is it a fundamentally important step forward?

    The Oreshnik missile system only at first glance resembles the medium-range ballistic missiles (MRBM) developed during the Soviet era . In fact, the Russian defense industry has made a significant step forward by creating a weapon that gives Russia fundamentally new combat capabilities. "Oreshnik is not the event of the year, it is a historical event in the rocket and space industry. Nothing like this has ever happened with this type of weapon," Russian President Vladimir Putin said of its significance at the end of last week.

    To understand the engineering excellence of the Oreshnik MRBM, it is worth recalling the video of the arrival of its warheads, filmed from several points at once during the missile's strike on the Yuzhmash plant on November 21, 2024. First of all, the video gives an idea of ​​the layout of the warhead of this missile. Before us is the arrival of six packages with six warheads in each, which in total gives a combat load of 36 warheads. This in itself is unprecedented - never before in the history of the rocket and space industry have missiles been created with dozens of separating warheads (BB), and even homing ones.

    According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, the Oreshnik warheads were inert, meaning they did not contain explosives, but were mock-ups of warheads. However, even in this configuration, the Oreshnik warheads were equipped with all standard thermal protection and maneuvering systems.

    Thermal protection is a key issue. The speed of the Oreshnik warheads when approaching the target is known – 10 Machs (M, x10 times the speed of sound, about 3.4 km/sec). According to the Ukrainian side, this speed was even 11M (more than 3.7 km/sec). Most ICBMs and INF missiles are characterized by a lower speed of warhead entry into the atmosphere, which ranges from 3 to 5M. At such speeds, the heating of the warhead shell is moderate. However, the temperature of the warhead also increases with the speed.

    This means that Russian designers have come up with materials for the Oreshnik that can withstand this temperature, and this is a truly outstanding achievement. Humanity has never been able to create anything like this before; at such speeds, the warheads would lose control or simply self-destruct.

    It is thanks to such materials that it was possible to increase the speed of the warheads and make kinetic energy the main damaging factor of the Oreshnik. Therefore, the Oreshnik allows you to hit any protected bunker or underground plant, ensuring penetration of the explosive charge to a significant depth and its "pin" accuracy, due to the individual guidance system of the BB.

    The second achievement of historical scale is the invulnerability of the Oreshnik in a confrontation with air defence systems. On December 19, President Putin proposed to the West a "high-tech duel of the 21st century": choose a target in Kiev, concentrate any Western-made air defense and missile defense systems there in advance, and then try to intercept our missile strike. In the president's speech, three such systems were mentioned: the MIM-104 Patriot PAC-3 air defense system, the THAAD air defense system, and the Aegis Ashore missile defense system - a land-based version of the Aegis ship-based system, deployed in two positional areas in Romania and Poland.

    The above-mentioned systems have no chance of reaching the Oreshnik when it is in the boost phase of its trajectory and is most vulnerable. The launch range of the Oreshnik exceeds 5,000 km and corresponds to a medium-range ballistic missile, while the maximum range of the longest-range Western missile defence system, Aegis Ashore, does not exceed 1,200 km.

    In the area of ​​the apogee of the ballistic trajectory, the "bus" stage of the "Oreshnik" could theoretically be intercepted by an SM-3 missile of the Aegis Ashore complex. In practice, the probability of such an event is close to zero. As the president put it, "it takes time to fly such a distance, and in a few seconds we begin to deploy the warheads - and that's it, the train has left."

    Indeed, the hypersonic warheads of the Oreshnik instantly “dive” into the atmosphere upon passing the apogee, after which THAAD and Aegis Ashore are immediately eliminated from the game. Their missiles are designed only for intercepting targets in the atmosphere, and are not capable of any complex maneuvers in the dense layers of the atmosphere.

    Patriot PAC-3 cannot hit Oreshnik warheads for another reason – its missiles are too slow in the atmosphere. Patriot in the MIM-104F (PAC-3) modification is capable of intercepting only targets with a speed of no more than 1600 m/s and at an altitude of up to 40 km. While Oreshnik flies these 40 km of altitude in about 10 seconds at a speed of more than 3700 m/s.

    Finally, it is worth mentioning another, geostrategic significance of the Oreshnik. With a declared range exceeding 5,000 km, the Oreshnik is capable of shooting from Russian territory across all of Europe , including Portugal, Great Britain and Scandinavia, as well as the entire Middle East and North Africa.

    In the Pacific theatre, its zone of destruction includes not only all of Japan and South Korea, but also American bases in Guam and Okinawa. And when fired from Chukotka, the entire Pacific coast of the United States, right up to Los Angeles.

    The launch of the Oreshnik can only be prevented by a preemptive strike on the self-propelled launcher. But to do this, the enemy will first have to find it in the Russian expanses.

    At the same time, the cost of such a medium-range missile will be much lower than that of an ICBM, especially per ton of throw weight. And mass production will bring the cost of using the Oreshnik closer to that of operational-tactical missiles such as the Kinzhal and Iskander.

    According to the statements made, Russia already has a stock of ready-to-use systems similar to Oreshnik. When used in groups, the damage inflicted on the enemy will be comparable to that from nuclear weapons. This is another unique military engineering feature of this missile, previously unimaginable.

    With the advent of the Oreshnik, Russia gained the ability to deter nuclear forces using non-nuclear methods, which was also previously unimaginable.

    Before Oreshnik, there was a significant “gap” between conventional and nuclear weapons, where conventional weapons could no longer help, and nuclear weapons were too powerful. Now, the possible future use of Oreshnik against NATO’s Western allies does not mean an immediate transition of armed confrontation to a global thermonuclear conflict. And this is the meaning of any deterrence – to keep the enemy from “stepping up” the escalation ladder by threatening unacceptable losses at the existing level.

    And yes, the world in this version has already de facto become multipolar, because China, North Korea and Iran, apparently, will create analogues of the Oreshnik faster than the US and its allies. Just as they created their maneuvering hypersonic missile earlier than the Americans. So we will have to fully appreciate the historical significance of hypersonic weapons, the next stage of improvement of which was the Oreshnik, much later and after the fact. The main thing is that it was Russia that took the first step in this direction.

    https://m.vz.ru/society/2024/12/23/1305067.html

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    Post  Arrow Tue Dec 24, 2024 9:46 am

    Thermal protection is a key issue. The speed of the Oreshnik warheads when approaching the target is known – 10 Machs (M, x10 times the speed of sound, about 3.4 km/sec). According to the Ukrainian side, this speed was even 11M (more than 3.7 km/sec). Most ICBMs and INF missiles are characterized by a lower speed of warhead entry into the atmosphere, which ranges from 3 to 5M. wrote:

    In the case of the ICBM RV enters the atmosphere at a speed of over 20M. In the atmosphere itself it slows down to about 5M at the ground. In the case of Oreshnik, the warheads are supposedly still over 10M at the ground, which is something new. Although in the case of the entry of these warheads on the recorded video, different speeds can be inferred.
    Interestingly, in the case of other ICBMs, etc., Putin did not say that this was such a great breakthrough in missile technology. Even in the case of Burevestnik, which has an exotic nuclear drive.
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    Post  Firebird Tue Dec 24, 2024 4:45 pm

    @Alamo
    yes I've noticed all these "100 most beautiful places on Earth" lists.
    And not a single one features a scene from Russia. No Kamchatka, Baikal, Crimea, Putarana Plauteau, St Petersburg, Red Square, Altai Rep etc etc.
    Of course these websites are places like MSN... all American owned. Or owned by Euro lackeys who are owned by America.

    Of course it goes beyond bias and stupidity and propaganda, and into the realm of complete and utter scum.
    Such vermin would be the ideal target for a Topol M or whatever.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 25, 2024 9:56 am

    It must be admitted that such an action with falsifying photos has never been done, and by commercial companies at that.

    Can't say I could agree with that... western intelligence services have been embedded in western media centres for quite some time and hold veto over what can or cannot be published...

    The consequences of the strike must be really interesting.

    The results must be obvious from space for them to need editing on satellite photos... and it was not easy to edit in a few minutes... they had to cover it with clouds instead of just copying an image from a few hours or days before the attack.

    Of course the satellites don't follow the same path over and over so the last view with the same angle as just after the attack might be months old...

    Anything else would look wrong.


    According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, the Oreshnik warheads were inert, meaning they did not contain explosives, but were mock-ups of warheads. However, even in this configuration, the Oreshnik warheads were equipped with all standard thermal protection and maneuvering systems.

    People confuse inert with a dummy round... most standard ball rifle bullets are inert, but the job they do that is just lethal enough.

    In the case of the ICBM RV enters the atmosphere at a speed of over 20M. In the atmosphere itself it slows down to about 5M at the ground.

    That is because a nuclear warhead is not solid metal all the way through and therefore is rather larger than a solid penetrating metal warhead would need to be.

    A 125mm HEAT round is about 20kgs while an APFSDS round is about 7kgs and only about 40mm calibre.

    In the case of Oreshnik, the warheads are supposedly still over 10M at the ground, which is something new.

    The nuclear warheads of most long range missiles are designed to slow down so they don't over heat and melt and be damaged before detonation... most nuclear warheads airburst and never hit the ground anyway.

    These warheads are designed for impact and penetration so max speed is obviously part of their design.

    Of course these websites are places like MSN... all American owned. Or owned by Euro lackeys who are owned by America.

    Just Americans maintaining propaganda levels of ignorance.

    Of course it goes beyond bias and stupidity and propaganda, and into the realm of complete and utter scum.
    Such vermin would be the ideal target for a Topol M or whatever.

    Violence is no solution to ignorance or arrogance.

    Does Russia even need to correct it for them?

    If they don't know why should Russia care?

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    Post  Arrow Wed Dec 25, 2024 10:03 am

    The nuclear warheads of most long range missiles are designed to slow down so they don't over heat and melt and be damaged before detonation... most nuclear warheads airburst and never hit the ground anyway. wrote:

    Not necessarily. They were designed to fly through the atmosphere as quickly as possible. A suitably shaped cone. The atmosphere slows down the RV to a considerable extent. During the development of the ICBM, the RV slowed down less and less in the atmosphere, currently reaching something like 1.5-2 km/s at the ground, entering at a speed of 7 km/s. In the case of kinetic penetrators, no special shields are needed, they can take most of the heat by heating up to a huge temperature. This can also add additional energy. The question is how they maintain such a high speed. Perhaps this is also the breakthrough that Putin spoke of.

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    Post  Tolstoy Wed Dec 25, 2024 8:20 pm

    Oreshnik is an IRBM and therefore much more difficult to engage with a SAM system because of the very short flight time.

    That's the message Putin is sending out to the US that they should not have withdrawn from the INF using the pretext of the 9M729, a missile that perhaps doesn't even exist.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 26, 2024 5:02 am


    Not necessarily. They were designed to fly through the atmosphere as quickly as possible.

    Going too fast would cause them to overheat and possibly break apart... Most are designed to air burst for which maximum speed is not necessary.

    The space shuttle enters the earths atmosphere at a shallow angle to give it more time to slow down with aero braking for the same reasons.

    A suitably shaped cone. The atmosphere slows down the RV to a considerable extent.

    By definition a cone shape would allow internal volume for the warhead etc, and would also increase drag to prevent it entering too fast.

    The shuttle cock used in badminton is cone shaped to reduce its flight speed... no matter how hard it is hit and no matter how high up you hit it...

    A cone shape is not a dart shape for high speed peentrators.

    The question is how they maintain such a high speed.

    By being penetrator or dart shaped instead of being cone shaped.

    Oreshnik is an IRBM and therefore much more difficult to engage with a SAM system because of the very short flight time.

    Western air defence systems can't even deal with Iskander and Kh-32 and Kinzhal and Zircon let alone Hazelnut.

    That's the message Putin is sending out to the US that they should not have withdrawn from the INF using the pretext of the 9M729, a missile that perhaps doesn't even exist.

    Putin challenged them to a duel... the west could pick any target to be hit... including something near the ABM system they have in Alaska or the one they are building in Europe. They could even sail 50 AEGIS class cruisers to a tiny island somewhere and try to defend that from Hazelnut... but they wont because they can't stop it with anything they have.

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    Post  Sujoy Thu Dec 26, 2024 9:23 am

    GarryB wrote:Putin challenged them to a duel... the west could pick any target to be hit... including something near the ABM system they have in Alaska or the one they are building in Europe.
    The real reason behind scrapping of the INF is to create a diversion. They intend to create the impression that they'll stockpile IRBMs while in reality they are using that fund to create BIO Weapons.

    Even an insider like Musk is now accepting it.


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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Thu Dec 26, 2024 9:05 pm

    🇧🇾🇷🇺❗Lukashenko said that Belarus will deploy "a dozen" Oreshnik systems, but if Moscow wants to deploy more, Minsk is ready

    Cool

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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 27, 2024 3:00 am

    The real reason behind scrapping of the INF is to create a diversion. They intend to create the impression that they'll stockpile IRBMs while in reality they are using that fund to create BIO Weapons.

    The INF treaty and the bio weapons labs are totally unrelated... they were building bio weapons labs well before they ripped up the INF treaty.

    The INF treaty was ripped up so they could base long range cruise missiles in South Korea and Japan and other places to point at North Korea and China...

    They clearly didn't think Russia would start making IRBMs and IRCMs...

    Stationing 10 Hazelnuts in Belarus would be interesting... 60 targets that can be nuked or 360 targets that can be hit hard with a solid penetrator...

    Firing such a missile at an enemy military port could lead to large numbers of ships and subs being damaged to the point where they are no longer any use for combat until they get get to dry dock for a few months...

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    Post  The-thing-next-door Fri Dec 27, 2024 6:31 pm

    the video shows that the Patriot missile defense system does not have time to hit the Oreshnik warheads when they are at a distance sufficient for destruction by anti-aircraft guided missiles.

    I must say if they were retarded enough to even bother simulating an attempt to shoot it down with a patriot they are at the vanguard of stupidity.

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