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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9

    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Thu Nov 14, 2024 5:41 am

    https://rostec-ru.translate.goog/media/news/odk-vpervye-predstavila-noveyshiy-aviatsionnyy-dvigatel-pyatogo-pokoleniya/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

    So if the AL-31FN shares same technology as the 2nd stage engine is the 6% increase in range also accounted for the 2nd stage like the AL-31FN. 3500 times 1.06 the new range if technology is same for the 2nd gen the internal fuel range will be 3710kms.

    edit: from paralay boards taken from airshow of the export.
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 - Page 13 Gc-qn310

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Thu Nov 14, 2024 10:34 am

    Arrow wrote:The Raptor performs maneuvers as impressive as the Su 57.

    Rolling Eyes

    The question is how much high maneuverability is useful apart from dodfight? Is it about BVR ranged combat? Is it possible to outmaneuver the missile? Certainly if it is on the border of low kinetic energy. It is also said that losing such energy of the aircraft in strong maneuvers is also not entirely good?

    You are mixing completely different things. But you are not going to show supersonic maneuverability on an air show right?

    There is a LOT which is being shown by such display that goes into the aerodynamics, engines and flight controls that can be critical in a confrontation, providing the pilot with more resources and less concerns, which can and in fact makes a difference between killing or getting killed. The discussion about WVR vs BVR is certified sour grapes, proudly made in the USA Laughing

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    Post  thegopnik Thu Nov 14, 2024 5:16 pm

    https://tass.com/defense/1872351
    ZHUHAI /China/, November 14. /TASS/. Russia's newest fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jet surpasses all existing counterparts in the world, including China’s latest J-35, Russia’s test pilot, holder of the Hero of Russia title, Sergey Bogdan, has told the media.

    "We never lag behind . We create our weapons against some competitors and always have a certain temporal reserve. We take into account many things. Our aircraft always boast a competitive edge. In my opinion, the Su-57 fifth-generation airplane is superior to any of the existing ones in the world. As for the newest Chinese J-35 airplane presented, at aerospace shows you can only see general aerodynamic parameters. When it comes to maneuverability, stability, and controllability, our competitors and rivals do not show everything. But in terms of what has been demonstrated, Russian aircraft are always a little bit ahead," Bogdan said in response to a TASS question.

    The specialist said the Russian fighter was a decent and well-configured machine.

    "It has already been practically fully tested as far as air worthiness, maneuverability, stability and controllability are concerned. Its weapons, too, have been polished to perfection. We continue to test new types of missiles and weapons," Bogdan stated.

    The test pilot emphasized that the newest Russian fighter was a "magnificent platform for a future generation of configurations, just as the Su-27 aircraft in its heyday - its layouts and solutions have been used for many decades."

    Bogdan added that the Su-57, for all the complexity of its layout, "has the most magnificent characteristics of aerodynamics, stability, controllability and strength" in performing the tasks a fifth-generation aircraft is expected to cope with.

    "Its weapons - powerful, far-reaching and long range - are inside. The defensive capabilities are remarkable. It is a very worthy aircraft with vast, global prospects," he said.

    The world premiere of the export version of Russia’s fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jet took place at Airshow China in Zhuhai. The fighter took to the sky on the first day of the exhibition and aroused great interest among all its participants. Test pilot Sergey Bogdan performed a series of aerobatic figures.

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    Post  Hole Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:09 pm

    Although it would be hilarious if it turns out to be India
    Propably Algeria

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    Post  Isos Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:23 am

    4000km range... so my maths were ok lol1

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    Post  higurashihougi Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:47 am

    https://www.facebook.com/K01Archive/posts/pfbid0xSVpRaHfykFgPxGHD2DET4A4c6Kx3NW3E4Lzz9BVrXEBkeYUgx8RZNvkNMa5qXupl

    But somehow the NAFO kids believe that the Su-57 057 model was the same as the Su-57 just performed the impressive acrobatic flying. They are not aware that the 057 model is NOT meant to be fly-able.

    And the stupid NAFO kids somehow invent the so-called "fifth generation engine", as if for them the AL-41 is an old coot of the 70s decade.

    The NAFO kids also challenge Su-57 to come to Ukraine, but the fact that Su-57 has already engaged. Even Western experts have to acknowledge Su-57's good points, while the Maidan fanboys are completely blind and deaf.

    The Su-57 057 model in Zhuhai was presented with engine AL-41 izdeliye 117, but the Su-57 in ARMY Russia exhibition used izdeliye 177S instead. A separated 177S engine in in Zhuhai, too.

    https://www.facebook.com/K01Archive/posts/pfbid0jw1o21wiyvpYpZ3KMDd3mxmufQ6BNZL3MH2AikYx7vsfFs2q9KSyEHRevmEEvcgRl

    After people presented the impressive Su-57 acrobatic footage, the illiterate NAFO fanboys still asked why Su-57 does not have VTOL like F-35B.

    The problem is that F-35B is the very reason why the whole F-35 program becomes unreasonably costly and delayed. More than half of F-35 accidents are due to F-35B, including the ones with very silly reasons.

    What is most practical today is the fighter with normal and STOL instead. VTOL only have a very narrow and niched application, and the VTOL design has to make huge compromise in total payload. It is unreasonably costly as, due to the VTOL  F-35B, the compromise in total design makes F-35A and F-35C become  sitting ducks on air.

    The NAFO "experts" probably base their arguments on games, Hollywood, and yellow kid journalism.

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    Post  lyle6 Fri Nov 15, 2024 4:46 pm

    lancelot wrote:
    It can help you point your aircraft towards the enemy so you can fire your weapons at them. And yes it can help you do aggressive combat maneuvers to avoid missiles.
    Close, but no. Modern AA missiles can lock on after launch and some can even perform nose pitching maneuvers with thrust vectoring to attack targets behind the aircraft.

    No, the real reason for the Su-57's super-maneuverability is to achieve maximum stealth. By trading speed for agility, the Su-57 can point its stealthiest aspect to the threat on a dime, instantly cutting detection range. The reduced speed will also significantly reduce doppler returns as well as IR returns from skin friction heating.

    EM-theory is an incomplete model of modern air combat. Its no longer the fastest and higher flying that wins - its the one that looks and shoots first.
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    Post  thegopnik Sun Nov 17, 2024 1:18 am

    according to information 9 days ago the new Su-57s for 2025 with the new engines and avionics might get equipped with photonic radars.
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    Post  sepheronx Sun Nov 17, 2024 1:41 am

    I'm gonna say the photonic radar flight test model for 2025. Not serial production of.

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    Post  thegopnik Sun Nov 17, 2024 2:42 am

    the photonic circuit production started 10 days ago. https://iz.ru/1786402/maria-neduk/nahodka-dla-fotona-v-rf-nacnut-proizvodit-pribory-svazi-novogo-pokolenia like they are actually starting production for it. I am assuming it will be the needs of the military 1st like radars since they had different radar companies that had photonic radar prototypes before going to Civilian 6G cellular networks.

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    Post  sepheronx Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:02 am

    thegopnik wrote:the photonic circuit production started 10 days ago. https://iz.ru/1786402/maria-neduk/nahodka-dla-fotona-v-rf-nacnut-proizvodit-pribory-svazi-novogo-pokolenia like they are actually starting production for it. I am assuming it will be the needs of the military 1st like radars since they had different radar companies that had photonic radar prototypes before going to Civilian 6G cellular networks.

    Oh no, I mean I agree with you.

    What I am saying is that they will probably be testing a radar using the photonic T/R modules and it will be a long test. The 6G network stuff and what not will arrive earlier simply because testing for military products goes for a long time. Unless they decide to push development fast.

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    Post  thegopnik Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:30 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    thegopnik wrote:the photonic circuit production started 10 days ago. https://iz.ru/1786402/maria-neduk/nahodka-dla-fotona-v-rf-nacnut-proizvodit-pribory-svazi-novogo-pokolenia like they are actually starting production for it. I am assuming it will be the needs of the military 1st like radars since they had different radar companies that had photonic radar prototypes before going to Civilian 6G cellular networks.

    Oh no, I mean I agree with you.

    What I am saying is that they will probably be testing a radar using the photonic T/R modules and it will be a long test.  The 6G network stuff and what not will arrive earlier simply because testing for military products goes for a long time.  Unless they decide to push development fast.

    it could be a short test because they did use prototype radars or at least I know KRET, RTI and Vega did.

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    Post  sepheronx Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:32 am

    Well, if that becomes the case and they do create a rofar radar for flying jets, Russia will be far ahead of the game since Photonic radar can produce far better results than standard IC in terms of output per watt.

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    Post  thegopnik Sun Nov 17, 2024 7:33 am

    not just the power wattage but this also.
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 - Page 13 17318010

    The production for PICs actually calls for a drinking celebration, other 2 drinking celebrations would be the Ukraine war being over and the nuclear space tug getting launched.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 17, 2024 11:29 am

    Off Topic stuff moved to talking bollocks thread.
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Tue Nov 19, 2024 1:40 pm

    Why does Russia’s Su-57 fighter jet get the better of the US’ F-35?

    Russia’s Su-57 fifth-generation fighter jet recently made a splash at an international air show in the Chinese city of Zhuhai. What is so unique about this warplane’s characteristics and why does it outshine the US-made F-35?

    ▪The Su-57 significantly surpasses the F-35 in terms of weapons (various short, medium and long-range air-to-air missiles plus guided aerial bombs against a small array of air-to-air missiles and bombs), speed (2,600 km per hour against 1,900) and maneuverability, experts say.

    ▪The Su-57’s advantage is the latest Russian long-range missile R-37M, which has already been effectively used in the special operation.

    ▪The missile allows the Su-57 to hit air targets at a distance twice as large as the F-35, according to the Military Watch magazine.

    Russian military expert Alexey Leonkov said that the Su-57’s stealth features don’t affect its speed and maneuverability. According to him, the warplane can carry all types of serial weapons as well as new types of munitions, for example, the Kinzhal (lit. Dagger) missiles.

    Notably, the one-seater Su-57 has a “second pilot” option, an AI system that helps a pilot monitor the operation of all units of the warplane when he is engaged in combat work, per Leonkov.

    Head of the Sukhoi Design Bureau Mikhail Strelets explained that the F-35 was designed with a focus on its capabilities to strike ground targets, but lacks acceleration and maneuverability, while the Su-57 is a versatile fighter jet capable of fulfilling multiple roles.


    https://t.me/geopolitics_live/37520

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    Post  william.boutros Tue Nov 19, 2024 2:11 pm

    Eugenio Argentina wrote:Why does Russia’s Su-57 fighter jet get the better of the US’ F-35?  

    Russia’s Su-57 fifth-generation fighter jet recently made a splash at an international air show in the Chinese city of Zhuhai. What is so unique about this warplane’s characteristics and why does it outshine the US-made F-35?  

    ▪The Su-57 significantly surpasses the F-35 in terms of weapons (various short, medium and long-range air-to-air missiles plus guided aerial bombs against a small array of air-to-air missiles and bombs), speed (2,600 km per hour against 1,900) and maneuverability, experts say.  

    ▪The Su-57’s advantage is the latest Russian long-range missile R-37M, which has already been effectively used in the special operation.    

    ▪The missile allows the Su-57 to hit air targets at a distance twice as large as the F-35, according to the Military Watch magazine.  

    Russian military expert Alexey Leonkov said that the Su-57’s stealth features don’t affect its speed and maneuverability. According to him, the warplane can carry all types of serial weapons as well as new types of munitions, for example, the Kinzhal (lit. Dagger) missiles.    

    Notably, the one-seater Su-57 has a “second pilot” option, an AI system that helps a pilot monitor the operation of all units of the warplane when he is engaged in combat work, per Leonkov.    

    Head of the Sukhoi Design Bureau Mikhail Strelets explained that the F-35 was designed with a focus on its capabilities to strike ground targets, but lacks acceleration and maneuverability, while the Su-57 is a versatile fighter jet capable of fulfilling multiple roles.


    https://t.me/geopolitics_live/37520

    This is the not place for comparisons. You do know however that Su57 radar is inferior and would not be able to spot and get a weapons lock on an F35 before F35 is able to spot and shoot at Su57?
    This is the main reason why Su57 is designed to be agile to evade the first missile in the hope of getting closer to the F-22 later F-35.

    Su57 needs to further lower their radar signature and improve its radar. The question is how much is needed to reach sufficiently accepted parity as one is defending and is being aided by land based radars and the other is on the offensive.
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    Post  lancelot Tue Nov 19, 2024 3:13 pm

    william.boutros wrote:This is the not place for comparisons. You do know however that Su57 radar is inferior and would not be able to spot and get a weapons lock on an F35 before F35 is able to spot and shoot at Su57?
    This is the main reason why Su57 is designed to be agile to evade the first missile in the hope of getting closer to the F-22 later F-35.

    Su57 needs to further lower their radar signature and improve its radar. The question is how much is needed to reach sufficiently accepted parity as one is defending and is being aided by land based radars and the other is on the offensive.
    Except there is zero evidence of this. The Su-57 has a radar which was designed a decade afterwards. It is certainly superior to the one in the F-22 and probably the one in the F-35 too at least in air to air modes.

    The F-35 cannot carry infrared guided missiles internally, and its radar guided missiles have a shorter reach than the ones the Su-57 can carry.

    When people make these sorts of claims they are all based on assuming the level of stealth on the F-22 or F-35 is two or three orders of magnitude better, or something, and that will take care of any deficiencies in radar. Except you cannot believe their stupid RCS numbers anyway. An RCS the size of a marble or a mosquito my foot.

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    Post  Mir Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:02 pm

    @Lancelot

    Clearly you are talking to a crackpot lol1 drunken

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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 - Page 13 Empty simple physics

    Post  pavi Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:37 pm

    This is the not place for comparisons. You do know however that Su57 radar is inferior and would not be able to spot and get a weapons lock on an F35 before F35 is able to spot and shoot at Su57?
    This is the main reason why Su57 is designed to be agile to evade the first missile in the hope of getting closer to the F-22 later F-35.

    Su57 needs to further lower their radar signature and improve its radar. The question is how much is needed to reach sufficiently accepted parity as one is defending and is being aided by land based radars and the other is on the offensive.

    Radar detection range can be esimated when transmitted power, antenna gain and receiver sensitivity are known. What is important to notice is that antenna gain must be taken into account twice, both in transmission and then when reflected signal is received. Antenna gain is proportional size of the antenna relative to wavelength. Therefore bigger airplane has bigger room for antenna. Relatively small size difference means a lot. If diameter is increased 20%, the gain is inreased 44% and when this is converted to overall performanse increase you get factor 2 (1,44*1,44= 2). Therefore minor differences in T/R module power output can be compensated easily if you have room in your plane.

    Power output depends much about cooling capacity of the modules because transistor made using some technology has approximately same performance level anyway. Software wise I don't believe there is any significant advantage neither side because both have processors capable for the job and algorithms used are known both side. Claiming that F-35 has superior radar or stealth performance are quite odd to me. I know that americans are very good bulshitting in powerpoint slides. They really can talk, but not so often walk.

    I still want to remind about RCS talking. Those ridiculous readings from F22&F35 are just an example of powerpoint shining. Those figures maybe real for very narrow 3D angle from frontal area. All those planes J-20, Su-57, F-35 and F-22 are in the same ballpark if radar cross section is measured using integration over full 360 deg space angle. Stealth shaping is used to reflect radar signals away from the receiver but the energy does not disappear nowhere. Only lossy stealth coatings and materials absorb radar energy and convert it to heat. Again, how much law of physics changes when we travel from Russia to USA? Then, if some idiot is claiming that Russia lacks theorethical knowledge of EM scattering, I would like to remind you very advanced and innovative radar technology during last decades. First phased array radar on fighter jet, MIG-31, for example.
    Nowdays radar detection is networked thing. Multiple radars transmitting and listening and data is shared. Every single stealth object has been visible even in Germany when multiple radars are used. This is not secret. What comes to missile lock, R-37 flies high ballistic trajectory and its homing head will see target from the top. How much F22 and F35 are more stealth from above?


    Last edited by pavi on Wed Nov 20, 2024 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:08 am

    This is the not place for comparisons. You do know however that Su57 radar is inferior and would not be able to spot and get a weapons lock on an F35 before F35 is able to spot and shoot at Su57?

    Actually the Su-57 has at least five antenna arrays including a forward facing and two side facing arrays in the nose and wing root mounted L band AESA radar too.

    The L band radar should be able t detect the F-35 at enormous distances because stealthy shaping does not effect long wave radar, and it would not be possible to put a coating on the F-35 thick enough to effect radar waves at that wavelength.

    More importantly the Su-57 will be working inside an IADS network that would give it information about most of the things in the airspace around it.

    This is the main reason why Su57 is designed to be agile to evade the first missile in the hope of getting closer to the F-22 later F-35.

    Agility is always a design requirement for a fighter and when the technology fails... like radar and IR guided air to air and surface to air missiles, then what you have left is guns, which is where manouverability becomes important.

    Su57 needs to further lower their radar signature and improve its radar.

    Increasing stealth increases cost on a log scale... half the RCS means 100 times the price and halving it again means 1000 times further increase in price.... there is a point where it is no longer worth it. You might argue that America got it right and Russia got it wrong, but the fact that US F-35s are not being transferred to Kiev to obliterate the Russian air defence network and wipe out their airforce suggests they haven't.

    Israel still uses F-16s because they do a better job and are cheaper...

    The question is how much is needed to reach sufficiently accepted parity as one is defending and is being aided by land based radars and the other is on the offensive.

    The delusion is that there is a level of stealth that will make you safe so you can fly with impunity over the battlefield dictating the situation like a god, and that level of stealth simply does not exist.

    HATO will run out of planes before Russia runs out of SAMs and AAMs and cruise missiles will give them no place safe to land.

    The Su-57 has a radar which was designed a decade afterwards. It is certainly superior to the one in the F-22 and probably the one in the F-35 too at least in air to air modes.

    The L band radar in the wings of the Su-57 should be able to detect the L band datalink activity of HATO aircraft... whether they can jam it or not is another question but detection will indicate where their most stealthy aircraft are... passively...

    The F-22 and F-35 are intended to dominate third world countries with 4th gen and 3rd gen fighters... or no air power at all.

    The Su-57 is intended to operate in Europe hunting 4th and 5th gen aircraft.

    An RCS the size of a marble or a mosquito my foot.

    The amusing thing is that even if their claims are true how many marbles and mosquitos are there flying around at near supersonic speeds at 10km plus altitudes.

    50 years ago such data would be removed from the radar screen automatically because it was obviously noise... these days the data will be carefully analysed to make sure it isn't noise, and an IRST sensor can be used to determine the IR signature of the target... a Mosquito or marble with an IR signature of an F-35 can be confidently marked and shared with other platforms and engaged. The L band radar will detect it as a F-35 sized target too...

    @Pavi, fixed the quote for you. Your first quote bracket should not have a / in front of it, only the second quote bracket. So using squiggly brackets so it shows up on the screen, you want {quote} {/quote}, and not {/quote} {/quote} which is what you had.

    For users not wanting to type out the quotes in the tool bar above where you type your message in the fourth box of tools from the left there is a speech bubble... if you put your mouse arrow over it it will say "quote". If you click on that it will insert the correct code to post a quote. The cursor will appear between the two quote brackets so if you already copied the text just choose paste to insert the text between the quote brackets and you are done. Note when using this tool there is a box for the Author of the quote, which you can type in and that will be added to the html code for the quote.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Nov 20, 2024 11:18 pm

    william.boutros wrote:

    This is the not place for comparisons. You do know however that Su57 radar is inferior and would not be able to spot and get a weapons lock on an F35 before F35 is able to spot and shoot at Su57?
    This is the main reason why Su57 is designed to be agile to evade the first missile in the hope of getting closer to the F-22 later F-35.

    Su57 needs to further lower their radar signature and improve its radar. The question is how much is needed to reach sufficiently accepted parity as one is defending and is being aided by land based radars and the other is on the offensive.

    Iranian air defenses beg to disagree

    The f35 is a shitcan and Iran proved that

    Su57 is flying through patriot guarded airspace

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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:31 am

    https://www.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/comments/zxabm0/a_new_batch_of_sukhoi_su57_serial_aircraft_video/

    A new batch of SU-57 are delivered on a snowy day and fly off into te falling snow. Quiet amazed they do not have a sheltered area for the pilots to board lol.

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    Post  thegopnik Sat Nov 23, 2024 3:03 am

    mnztr wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/comments/zxabm0/a_new_batch_of_sukhoi_su57_serial_aircraft_video/

    A new batch of SU-57 are delivered on a snowy day and fly off into te falling snow. Quiet amazed they do not have a sheltered area for the pilots to board lol.

    wonder what they are blurring on the aircraft, also not to embarrass you, but the reddit replies and post suggest the video is from 2 years ago.
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    Post  mnztr Sat Nov 23, 2024 10:28 pm

    thegopnik wrote:
    mnztr wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/comments/zxabm0/a_new_batch_of_sukhoi_su57_serial_aircraft_video/

    A new batch of SU-57 are delivered on a snowy day and fly off into te falling snow. Quiet amazed they do not have a sheltered area for the pilots to board lol.

    wonder what they are blurring on the aircraft, also not to embarrass you, but the reddit replies and post suggest the video is from 2 years ago.


    Have you seen this video before? Has the plane changed since then? If not what does it matter that the vid is 2 y old. The blurring is so intel analysts cannot track serial numbers of the planes.

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