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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9

    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:17 pm

    Arrow wrote:
    The West will try to maintain its advantage through quantitative superiority. At least on paper it will look good. In Europe they want to have over 600 F-35s and there are about 600 EFs. On paper it is impressive. Their operational capability is another matter.

    Russia maintains a purely defensive doctrine whilst the ever expanding NATzo is clearly set on the aggressor path. It is perfectly clear that NATzo will suffer unacceptably high losses during the opening hours of any conventional conflict. Those aircraft that will survive will have no place to go. NATzo have absolutely nothing that can effectively defend against drones and missiles raining down on them.

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    Post  LMFS Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:55 pm

    From Zhuhai, thanks to raptor82

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 - Page 12 Img_5510

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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:13 pm

    It was reported that some of the controversy stemmed from the fact that the static display aircraft was a mockup and not a flying aircraft and in places had been damaged and the repairs were not really befitting of a flying example which it isn't.

    Based on this mockup the experts criticised the aircraft that was flying and those in service in the Russian AF.

    Amusing that in my honest opinion the prettiest looking F-35 is the Chinese version... the twin engine design looks sleeker and of a much better aerodynamic shape for flying at any speed.

    I rather suspect they also took the time and spent the money on fixing the problems and making it work which Boeing seems rather uninterested in doing for the F-35.

    In Europe they want to have over 600 F-35s and there are about 600 EFs.

    The F-35 is an economic scam created by the US to siphon money from gullible allies... I say buy 2,000 of the damn things.

    Was I Norway that was having problems keeping pilots current on their F-35s because it is so damn expensive to fly them they don't fly them often enough to keep their pilots and ground crew properly trained with enough operational hours per year to keep them on active duty.

    The British were saying it cost something like 80K pounds per flight hour to fly their F-35s... that is disgusting corruption.

    Russia maintains a purely defensive doctrine whilst the ever expanding NATzo is clearly set on the aggressor path. It is perfectly clear that NATzo will suffer unacceptably high losses during the opening hours of any conventional conflict. Those aircraft that will survive will have no place to go. NATzo have absolutely nothing that can effectively defend against drones and missiles raining down on them.

    To their credit they have also taken note of experience in Ukraine and realised lighter numbers aircraft would be a valuable addition to their fleet so they are clearly funding a light 5th gen fighter... whether they would consider producing MiG-35s as well is up for question, but the idea of a cheaper numbers aircraft but with modern AESA radar and modern weapons is appealing to them... and of course would be made more effective cooperating with a solid IADS that is already in operation.

    They have very low rate production capacity for the MiG and in a couple of years they will likely have at the very least two and possibly three light single engined 5th gen fighters to test and evaluate.

    They might decide that a 4th gen aircraft is good enough and is cheaper to operate and perhaps only produce a few light 5th gen fighters for specific roles where stealth would be important but an Su-57 would not be warranted.

    Or the stealth features might be decisive and the costs not enough to effect the result so a light fifth gen fighter might be put into mass serial production as soon as possible to add numbers to the fleet.

    Any network relies on nodes and of course when the node on a network is a fighter aircraft with an AESA radar and IRST/EO system and also carries weapons for use against a variety of threats then adding such nodes increases data collection capacity and the capacity to deal with large numbers of enemy at one time.

    Each fighter might be able to track 30 targets and launch weapons at 6 or 8 at one time meaning four Su-35s could track 120 targets and engage 24 to 36 targets at once... and would have the onboard capacity to attack up to two waves of targets (12 weapons launched), but 8 light fighters could also track 30 targets each and launch multiple weapons, but the target tracking capacity could also be used by other platforms like surface based SAM systems to launch their weapons at targets too... but the real point is that the four Su-35s are not going to replace those light fighters, they are going to all work together with the heavier aircraft with the longer ranged sensors can protect the lighter aircraft which can engage in dogfights while the heavier fighters engage targets from greater distances.

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    Post  Arrow Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:39 pm

    Those aircraft that will survive will have no place to go. NATzo have absolutely nothing that can effectively defend against drones and missiles raining down on them. wrote:

    Using Kinzhal, Iskander Tsirkon can carry out a very fast strike and destroy a large part of NATO potential while still at the airport.

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    Post  Isos Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:43 pm

    7800 m range is very low.

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    Post  The-thing-next-door Tue Nov 12, 2024 11:24 pm

    The listed range and payload are comically low, they need to double check these posters before releasing them.

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    Post  TMA1 Wed Nov 13, 2024 1:05 am

    Isos wrote:7800 m range is very low.

    Hey bro you try walking 8 klicks. It is very impressive.
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    Post  lyle6 Wed Nov 13, 2024 3:06 am

    Strategic misstype. Is it 7800 km or 7800 mi? dunno
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:11 am

    Missing the k I suspect... unlikely to be miles.

    The really funny thing for defence for HATO is that the systems we see being sent to Ukraine like Gepard and IRIS-T is pretty much either taken out of storage (Gepard) or brand new off the production line and not in service with the vast majority of HATO countries.

    HATO doesn't do ground based air defence or it is a Token force shown at exercise perhaps protecting an HQ.

    When HATO was talking about drone swarms I knew they were in trouble because while the Russian AD is strong a swarm would test any defences... but the hilarious thing is that HATO is not protected from cruise missile attack let alone drones let alone drone swarms, so by talking and working on drone technology the west has forced the Russians to develop counters to such things which they are introducing into service... jammers, lasers, anti drone drones, airburst autocannon shells... they already deploy anti aircraft guns and missiles of an eye watering range of types and models and now they will have more and better systems.

    Their ships had HMGs and with naval sea surface drones their HMGs now have thermal sights and laser range finders and ballistic computers to aide shooting targets much more effectively in all weathers.

    The west will struggle to get artillery and artillery shells into mass serial production, let alone tanks and APCs... when are they going to start producing AA guns and air defence missile systems that don't cost billions of dollars?

    Attacking Russian forces in Syria and Ukraine has done a little damage but shown their basic AD to be excellent but in need of upgrades and improvements which are in the process of being implemented.

    New SAMs are being developed to intercept artillery shells and rockets. Other new SAMs are being developed for engaging a range of other targets on the cheap, and drones with four net launchers can attack up to four enemy drones and bring them down and then load up and do it again...

    Their problem was limited drone types and only having a few prototypes for shows and display, well now they have enormous numbers of types of drones and many are in mass serial production using Russian made components that are some of the best in the world.

    American drones are 30-40K dollars each and easily jammed. Russian drones are $300-$400 and have AI systems to find and hit their targets even if they get jammed.

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    Post  lyle6 Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:47 am

    The Russians are already heading there. Once they have perfected autonomous target recognition and engagement for FPV drones they will start retrofitting these drones into cruise missiles. Imagine a Kh-101 loaded with a hundred FPV drones. It can fly 5km around the target away from point defences releasing FPV drones to menace the enemy air defenses.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Nov 13, 2024 11:15 am

    Isos wrote:7800 m range is very low.

    That figure includes 2 refuelings! Laughing
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    Post  Isos Wed Nov 13, 2024 12:57 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Isos wrote:7800 m range is very low.

    That figure includes 2 refuelings! Laughing

    I can do better by walking lol1

    Joke apart someone will start doing photocopies as its new job in the marketing departement unless they wanted to say miles... for export and in aviation in general they don't use metrical system. That would be huge. That would be 12000km which is not impossible. Emtpy su-35 is able to do 3600km easily in one way, with 2 refueling that's 3600x3= 10800km. Su-57 has better lift and more fuel for sure, so 12000km or 7800 miles is probavly the good figure here.

    That gives a naked su-57 roughly 4000km range. And weapons being inside makes it have also almost the same range with internal weapons.

    A french rafale pilot that has a youtube channel said there is a factor 4 to 1 for the range of a plane naked vs with weapons loaded externally, 4 times less range. That a great advantage of weapons bays.

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    Post  Arrow Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:00 pm

    The Raptor performs maneuvers as impressive as the Su 57.




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    Post  lancelot Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:46 pm

    Close but no cigar. The Su-57 is more maneuverable than the F-22. The TVC nozzles can move in two dimensions instead of just one. And it has the LEVCONs.

    Now try doing what the F-22 is doing with an F-35.

    Did I mention the US do not manufacture the F-22 anymore? The ones which exist are all you will get.

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    Post  Arrow Wed Nov 13, 2024 5:00 pm

    lose but no cigar. The Su-57 is more maneuverable than the F-22. The TVC nozzles can move in two dimensions instead of just one. And it has the LEVCONs. Now try doing what the F-22 is doing with an F-35. Did I mention the US do not manufacture the F-22 anymore? The ones which exist are all you will get. wrote:

    The question is how much high maneuverability is useful apart from dodfight? Is it about BVR ranged combat? Is it possible to outmaneuver the missile? Certainly if it is on the border of low kinetic energy. It is also said that losing such energy of the aircraft in strong maneuvers is also not entirely good?
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    Post  lancelot Wed Nov 13, 2024 6:38 pm

    Arrow wrote:The question is how much high maneuverability is useful apart from dodfight? Is it about BVR ranged combat? Is it possible to outmaneuver the missile? Certainly if it is on the border of low kinetic energy. It is also said that losing such energy of the aircraft in strong maneuvers is also not entirely good?
    It can help you point your aircraft towards the enemy so you can fire your weapons at them. And yes it can help you do aggressive combat maneuvers to avoid missiles.

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    Post  Hole Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:43 am

    It is also said that losing such energy of the aircraft in strong maneuvers is also not entirely good?
    That´s why the Su-57 has this massive engine to accalerate it after such maneuvers.

    As the F-16 was more maneuverable as the MiG-23 it was the greatest thing in the world. Same as the F-22 came up.
    The Americans stated the whole time that you need to have this feature. As soon as it became clear that even an old
    Su-27 could outperform a F-22 it was declared close to useless by the Americans.

    its advantage through quantitative superiority.
    But they don´t have one. For all the stuff those planes need to do in the western kind of "warfare" the numbers are much
    to low.
    The Russians could fight and win a war even without planes.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:34 am

    Arrow wrote:The Raptor performs maneuvers as impressive as the Su 57.

    Murkhan cope.  Saying it doesn't actually make it so.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:40 am

    lancelot wrote:Did I mention the US do not manufacture the F-22 anymore? The ones which exist are all you will get.

    Bingo, and if the Fail-22 was the uber-skronk Rooskie-slayer that its manufacturers (and its legion of pre-pubescent fan-bois) claim then they would have modernised the design with new electronics and sensors and kept them in production. They didn't, and this singular fact tells us all we really need to know. The rest is more of the same murkhan bullsh!t and bluster.

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    Post  George1 Thu Nov 14, 2024 5:20 am

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    Post  George1 Thu Nov 14, 2024 7:16 am

    Eugenio Argentina wrote:A batch of fifth-generation Su-57 fighters and 4++ generation Su-35S aircraft has been transferred to the Russian Defense Ministry, Rostec reported.  

    According to United Aircraft Corporation CEO Vadim Badekha, the next batches of these aircraft will be delivered by the end of the year, and "the machines are at different stages of production and testing."  

    Rostec CEO Sergey Chemezov said that the Su-57 is the only fifth-generation fighter jet that has confirmed its breakthrough characteristics in all combat applications, and taking into account this experience, it continues to improve.

    https://t.me/geopolitics_live/37013

    Probably 6 aircrafts heve been delivered so far in 2024. (2 batches of 3 aircrafts, according to unofficial reports, the first batch delivered in September included three aircraft)

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4875221.html

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    Post  xeno Thu Nov 14, 2024 7:42 am



    Rosoboronexport announces first contracts for export of Su-57 fighter jets

    "The military-technical cooperation system should bring new types of weapons and military equipment to the market. Su-57 - by the way, we have already signed the first contracts for this aircraft, "- said the head of the company Alexander Mikheev in an interview with the TV channel " Russia-1 "(VGTRK).

    https://www.interfax.ru/russia/992475

    What? It already sold?! Who bought them?

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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 14, 2024 7:54 am

    It is interesting that the most important technology in any area is the technology of feature of the latest American model.

    For the Abrams it was armour so it was heavy but the extra weight of armour made it the best tank in the world so it was worth it.

    Except as we have found the ammo in the turret bustle is horribly vulnerable to being directly targeted by enemy weapons.

    We were told smoothbore tank main guns were horribly inaccurate, despite the two main main tank gun rounds... APFSDS and HEAT FS are fin stabilised and don't benefit from rifling.

    Eventually the west caught up.

    Being able to point your nose, and therefore also your main sensors and your weapons including your gun, anywhere you want without the risk of stalling is a useful feature and even weapons that can pull a 180 degree turn on launch benefit from being pointed directly at the target.

    Most AAMs have rocket motors that burn for a fairly short period of time so if you are pulling a hard turn for even the first few seconds of that then your top speed and range is going to be massively reduced. If you are pointed directly at the target when launched your control surfaces are not trying to turn the missile and create the bare minimum of drag allowing maximum acceleration, meaning you reach the highest speed you can manage and therefore can fly further and get there sooner.

    If you can kill the enemy plane before they can launch a missile then you win.

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    Post  sepheronx Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:53 am

    My best bet would be Algeria.

    Algeria is usually more than happy to try and buy best what Russia has got.

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:59 am


    It's Chinese

    Theirs look nice but it's all a tier below, just remember disaster with their Su-33 knockoff

    Although it would be hilarious if it turns out to be India




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