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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49

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    zare


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    Post  zare Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:03 am

    Correct, missiles need to be kept under maintenance or disposed of.
    If ran by liquid propellant, the storage facilities and maintenance cycles are not trivial.

    This is just for the kinetic package, the explosive and the seeker have their own requirements.

    That's why there is seldom a program to turn old AAMs into something else. R-40 f.e. is big enough to be a AGM.
    But with requirements to store such a missile you won't have old batches once they become obsolete.

    As with production lines, when they commit to newer better missile, the storage capacity for older ones will start shrinking.

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    Post  higurashihougi Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:57 pm

    A meme from China.

    Support Maidan and Palestine: simple and naive anti-war.

    Support Russia and Israel: social Darwinist.

    Support Russia and Palestine: the people who have a good understanding about what is happening.

    Support Maidan and Israel: dogs of USA empire.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49 - Page 34 Memech10

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    Post  Hole Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:07 pm

    FAB9000 would do a job even better
    Or the BRAB-6000 Very Happy

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    Post  mnztr Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:11 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Looks like a whole lot more logistics on foot now. They need pack horses! You can almost feel the heat coming off that Marder.



    Are they gonna call the Russian FPV drones the "Marder *uckers"? Very Happy couldn't resist I apologize in advance

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    Post  mnztr Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:13 pm

    Isos wrote:That's a russian msta-S ?

    They all burn. Such pieces have enough explosive to destroy 40 big houses easily inside.

    Burial costs for crew of SPGs are 0.
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    Post  diabetus Sat Oct 14, 2023 3:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:Even any ancient anti ship missiles of the SS-N-2 Styx type would be useful way of delivering heavy HE payloads to the target area in volume, and a good way of using up old stock that would not be ideal for sinking modern ships, though they might be keeping that for sinking enemy shipping... the problem will be they wont have anything that can carry and launch them soon so land based or rail based launchers would be a useful way of delivering attack to neighbouring country regions...

    How about just using tochka?
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Sat Oct 14, 2023 3:49 pm

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:25 pm

    October 1⃣4⃣. Special military operation progress, stay tuned for tomorrow:

    ◾The Russian armed forces have repelled five Ukrainian attacks in the Zaporozhye region, the defence ministry has said;

    ◾According to the Russian Defence Ministry, the Russian Armed Forces thwarted the activities of a Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance group on Alyoshkinsky Island (Kherson region);

    ◾The AFU lost more than 670 servicemen, 52 armoured vehicles, 11 artillery pieces, 87 military vehicles and 31 drones on all sections of the front during the day, the Russian Defence Ministry said;

    ◾Deputy Prime Minister Khusnulin said the Crimean bridge had been fully repaired after an attack by AFU maritime drones in July, with car traffic resuming on all four lanes 18 days ahead of schedule;

    ◾Two Ukrainian drones were shot down off the coast of the Krasnodar region, the Defence Ministry said; because of the attack, flights at Sochi airport were temporarily restricted, but since 07.25 the airport has been operating normally, there is no damage;

    ◾Another Ukrainian drone was shot down over the Belgorod region. According to the region's governor, Gladkov, a private house in the village of Novaya Derevnya was damaged by UAV debris, but there were no casualties;

    ◾Rogov, leader of the Zaporozhye public movement 'We are with Russia', said that there was an 'atmosphere of terror' in the Ukrainian regime-controlled city of Zaporozhye and that residents were 'waiting for the Russian army to arrive'.

    ◾In an "off the record" meeting with Ukrainian media, Zelensky urged them not to write about corruption while the fighting continues, the ZN. UA editor-in-chief said.

    @ukraine_watch

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    Post  Airbornewolf Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:32 pm

    i have been away for a week, in a certain place where Internet almost needed to be sought for with an magnifying glass.

    So after catching up with TG sources, i tried to avoid double post by skimming over the thread to a few pages back.
    But i might accidentally still do. apologies in advance

    Ukrainian offensive get's intercepted by RF forces


    RF drone takes out Ukrainian tank at Zaporozhye


    RF Lancet drone destroys a British AS-90 self-propelled gun in Kremmenaya Region


    august 2023, RF forces storm ukrainian trench


    RF armor participating in Avdiivka assault

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:18 pm

    @Airbornewolf
    I am envious of the elegance of the Russian troops.

    There was no need to repost all those videos... simply do what I did above is sufficient, or even without it is fine in this case.
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    Post  Godric Sat Oct 14, 2023 9:32 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Due to its strategic location, with ability to shell Donetsk, this is the most fortified area in the Donbas, probably in Europe. No doubt parts of Gaza are a bit like this.

    There are few currently serving soldiers in the World that have this kind of urban warfare experience and most of them are in Russia. No wonder the senior officers of the IAF (the only ones left who have actual experience of 17 tears ago) seem to be reluctant to put it into the Gaza deathtrap.


    use hand held flame throwers on these bunkers from WW2 era to burn the bassas out

    they were highly effective weapons against bunkers and other fortifications

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    Post  mnztr Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm



    Just look at how they took out Fort Drum. Shoot the cams with snipers. Get acetelyne tanks. Pump it in....some diesel as well. A few tanks of oxygen and its all over


    Last edited by mnztr on Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:32 am

    The Iskander engine does not burn until the end of the flight. Iskander flies most of the time without propulsion. Maneuvering is done as in other missiles, with aerodynamic controls, as in SAM missiles, etc. Gasodynamic control is only in the initial phase of flight.

    Who told you that?

    Really... have you seen an Iskander missile... can you point out the movable control surfaces on the Iskander... we are talking about Iskander... not Tochka with the big grid fin control surfaces...

    Gasdynamic flight controls are the only manouvering controls this missile has and how are you going to explain how the missile launches and takes off and gets to altitude and flight speed and then what... stops its solid rocket motor?

    The Iskander does not fly a ballistic path, it climbs to altitude and speed and then it levels off and flys towards the target area and has sensors on board so if it detects radar signals or other EW signals associated with air defences... including ARH signals tracking the missile it starts to perform manouvers to avoid such radars and deploys jammers and decoys to distract enemy air defences and manouvers to evade anything launched to hit it, while still of course being able to hit the target... it does this with the motor running or it would not be able to manouver.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49 - Page 34 Army2016


    There is no old stock of such missiles. They were either used as target drones or destroy to make room for new stuff in storage.

    Do you know that or are you just making an assumption?

    Their tests for MiG-31BMs include tests using Granit missiles so I know they do test them, but they also make lots of missiles too... their stocks would rather exceed the number they would use for testing and exercises.

    They made about 100,000 SA-1 missiles and by 2002 they had used about 13,000 as target practise according to their defence catalogue Russias Arms 2001-2002.

    Few years ago some Lybian tried to launch an old styx or another soviet missile that was sitting there for years and it failed. Best case it just crash, worst case it crash in friendly area and kill your own people.

    What sort of condition were those particular missiles in and what sort of expertise was used to get them out of storage and into use?

    What sort of quality fuel did they have and were they able to make sure all the batteries and systems were working before they launched it... or did they just take it out of storage, fuel it up and fire it expecting it to work?

    Correct, missiles need to be kept under maintenance or disposed of.
    If ran by liquid propellant, the storage facilities and maintenance cycles are not trivial.

    Yet when they are in service you need a decent number of the weapons so you don't run out because just keeping massive production capacity available but not being used is actually more expensive than just making lots and storing them.

    With no fuel on board I would say storage is easy and relatively simple and preparation for use is fairly straight forward with the right equipment and fuels and batteries, which they will be doing with the older ships and land based batteries that still use the missiles.

    That's why there is seldom a program to turn old AAMs into something else. R-40 f.e. is big enough to be a AGM.
    But with requirements to store such a missile you won't have old batches once they become obsolete.

    Funny, you picked the wrong missile because the R-40s continue to be carried by MiG-31s operationally because the IR version is still useful, but I do appreciate what you are saying.

    I would say that an AA-2 might be useful as a cheap ARM if they put a broad band radar homing seeker on it, but they have many weapons specialised for that job... I suspect most of their older SAMs they sold/gave to export customers.

    Things like SAMs they reuse as AD practise targets and also for testing like the S-200 was used to test scramjet motors.

    How about just using tochka?

    Pretty sure it is not just no longer in service but that most of their missiles have been transferred to Belarus.

    use hand held flame throwers on these bunkers from WW2 era to burn the bassas out

    they were highly effective weapons against bunkers and other fortifications

    Russian Thermobaric weapons use a bursting charge to spread a liquid or powder fuel into the air which is then detonated and it spreads as it detonates, which is good for use against underground facilities.

    Just look at how they took out Fort Drum. Shoot the cams with snipers. Get acetelyne tanks. Pump it in....some diesel as well. A few tanks of oxygen and its all over

    There was no need to repeat those posts to post your own comment.

    People.... am I going to have to remove the Quote option again?

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    Post  Arrow Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:28 am

    Gasdynamic flight controls are the only manouvering controls this missile has and how are you going to explain how the missile launches and takes off and gets to altitude and flight speed and then what... stops its solid rocket motor? wrote:

    This way the engine only runs for a certain time. Iskander, like any other ballistic missile, flies for a long period without propulsion


    The Iskander does not fly a ballistic path, it climbs to altitude and speed and then it levels off and flys towards the target wrote:

    It flies along a ballistic path only on a very low, flat trajectory, it can also perform maneuvers, but at the end it performs maneuvers with aerodynamic controls.

    it does this with the motor running or it would not be able to manouver. wrote:


    That's not what it does without an engine. Each maneuver reduces the bullet's energy, unfortunately. Only the Tsirkon can keep its engine on for extended periods of flight

    https://t.me/SergeyKolyasnikov/53139

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    Post  Arrow Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:08 am

    100k FPV drones were produced in September Shocked Shocked


    https://t.me/pozivnoy_kazman/5577

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    Post  Isos Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:23 am

    They are pretty simple to produce and very likely they will keep a big part to hand to itanian militias in case the US are dumb to enter the cobflicts by israeli side in the middle east.
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:23 am

    News from Avdeevka from Alexander Sladkov :

    The cannonade subsided near Avdeevka. What could it be?

    As a matter of principle, according to Avdeevka, I feed only on official information, albeit slightly adjusted by the commanders’ remarks. So, my thoughts: it didn’t go easy, and thank God, we didn’t resolve the issue the Ukrainian way (to hit the impenetrable). Although, apparently, we have the intermediate result we need - we are decreasing the Ukrainian Armed Forces group in this fortress city, and the supply road is under our fire control.

    To surround Avdeevka, it is necessary to take many old strongholds of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The positions of the Ukrainian army have been poured with concrete since 2015, when, by the way, no one fired hard at them - build fortifications and formations. Now it is bearing fruit - you can’t really break it with artillery. Plus minefields. And in general, our Ministry of Defense did not promise anything. But the fact is the fact - the shooting is over.

    @Slavyangrad

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:52 am

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    Post  lyle6 Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:02 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    As a matter of principle, according to Avdeevka, I feed only on official information, albeit slightly adjusted by the commanders’ remarks. So, my thoughts: it didn’t go easy, and thank God, we didn’t resolve the issue the Ukrainian way (to hit the impenetrable). Although, apparently, we have the intermediate result we need - we are decreasing the Ukrainian Armed Forces group in this fortress city, and the supply road is under our fire control.
    Its 6-8 km from the contact line in the north and south direction to the Avdiivka-Orlivka road. Artillery, attack helicopters and drones would have their pick of victims every time the hohols do a supply run or an evac but to truly restrict the flow of supplies you need MBTs on either side of the ridgelines overlooking the road sniping at anything that drives past.

    Threatening the Avdiivka-Orlivka road has always been the priority.
    JohninMK wrote:
    To surround Avdeevka, it is necessary to take many old strongholds of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The positions of the Ukrainian army have been poured with concrete since 2015, when, by the way, no one fired hard at them - build fortifications and formations. Now it is bearing fruit - you can’t really break it with artillery. Plus minefields. And in general, our Ministry of Defense did not promise anything. But the fact is the fact - the shooting is over.
    Surround it and leave a single road in and out through a gauntlet of fire. Avdiivka can then be reduced at the VVS' pleasure with 1500kg bombs. No need to storm the place.

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    Post  Arrow Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:18 am

    A Su-27 fighter prevented the US Air Force RQ-4B Global Hawk reconnaissance UAV from violating the border over the Black Sea.

    https://t.me/SolovievLive/215249

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    Post  Firebird Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:05 am

    Arrow wrote:A Su-27 fighter prevented the US Air Force RQ-4B Global Hawk reconnaissance UAV from violating the border over the Black Sea.

    https://t.me/SolovievLive/215249

    why didnt russia shoot it down? Airspace violation=automatic right to shoot down.
    Altho assisting Nazis, common sense says its an auto right too.

    Would be nice to take it apart and give the blueprint instructions to Iran, NKorea and China.

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    Post  kvs Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:42 am

    Regarding taking out bunkers, some sort of small thermobaric device would do wonders. The oxygen would be consumed and lots of CO produced which would kill everyone inside.

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    Post  Belisarius Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:49 am

    MORE children have died in Gaza in a WEEK than than in Ukraine/Russia in the past 19 months of the Special Military Opreation in Ukraine.

    According to the UN, 560 children have died in Ukraine, a substantial portion of which died from Ukrainian shelling in Russian controlled regions.

    Latest report from Gaza is 724 children dead.

    Let that sink in...

    🔴 @DDGeopolitics
    https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/86544

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:01 am

    The stupid Ukrainians must be crying about their master Israel. The money, media attention and Western weapons (which are already in short supply) are going to go there.
    The counteroffensive failed. Russia is only getting stronger. A global move by the master Vladimir Putin.A move worthy of martial arts and his political genius. Or do you think that the approach with Iran was just drones?
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    Post  DerWolf Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:15 am

    No news from Avdika direction at all

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