UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #3

https://iz.ru/1732360/bogdan-stepovoi-roman-kretcul-andrei-fedorov/voina-i-mis-nachalsia-vypusk-udarno-razvedyvatelnogo-geksakoptera

https://iz.ru/1742477/2024-08-14/boepripas-lantcet-byl-modernizirovan-dlia-povysheniia-dalnosti-primeneniia
70-80kms new range on lancet

Nice post PhSt, it seems that missile is a drone launched Kornet missile called X-BPLA.

Being launched from significant altitudes it probably could use more rocket fuel and less warhead mass because it would essentially be a top attack type weapon most of the time, meaning its substantial warhead would be overkill most of the time.

In fact I would say that Bulat reduced size missile would be a much better missile for drone use even though its range is 3.5km from 5km altitude its reduced warhead calibre should allow effective penetration of the tops of most armoured vehicles easily enough without modification.

It mentions the use of Orion type drones with these missiles in a role similar to what the Americans used predator drones with hellfire missiles in their endless wars.

The post suggests that the use of Orions signals Kievs forces no longer have the air defence capacity to defend themselves, but I would argue that Orions make sense operating at 7-8km altitude above MANPADS range where only larger systems can reach... if you operate a few of them and fit ARMs to them then any that do get shot down can distribute the target details of the platform that hit them and the rest of the drones can hunt it down.

The alternative would be to use Su-25s at altitude releasing Kornet type missiles and would not be totally safe either... drones enable the job to be done without risking pilots but killing targets on the ground, which is the important thing.

The advantage of the orions means it can fly at altitude and find targets and is large enough to carry enough ordinance to take out a few targets for itself, but of course for fixed targets it can send the coordinates to Iskander and Smerch batteries, or to alert forces on the ground.

Finding targets is valuable enough, but being able to hit targets that might otherwise get away if they had to wait for a helicopter to get there makes this useful.

In Kursk Su-25 should be able to fly above ukrainian forces freely and use dumb bombs from close range as it was designed for and not glide bombs.

It tells us ukrainian managed to deny the airspace there which is quite shameful for russians to be honest.

Before seeing this news about the Orion, I was going to make an opinion about how Russia seems to be making advancements only in small drone classes like FPVs and Lancets.

The introduction of Medium-sized, missile carrier drones (as opposed to single-use Kamikaze drones) is certainly a welcome development.

After reading about the specs of the Orion, the basic version seems to be more or less comparable to the Predator, and has a bigger payload capacity over the Bayraktar TB2. After gathering combat experience from the SMO, the Russians can apply any lessons learned to tweak the design and capabilities of their newer UAV projects like the S-70 Okhotnik-B and Grom uav.

The advantage of the orions means it can fly at altitude and find targets and is large enough to carry enough ordinance to take out a few targets for itself, but of course for fixed targets it can send the coordinates to Iskander and Smerch batteries, or to alert forces on the ground.

Orions have an estimated payload capacity of 250 kg, Okhotnik-B has 2000 kg, and Grom has 7000 kg, maybe in the near future the latter two can replace the Su-25 in its current role of close air support, Or perhaps Russia can just make an unmanned version of the Su-25

In Kursk Su-25 should be able to fly above ukrainian forces freely and use dumb bombs from close range as it was designed for and not glide bombs.

It tells us ukrainian managed to deny the airspace there which is quite shameful for russians to be honest.

You mean like HATO in the Kosovo campaign would not send helicopters of A-10s into the conflict zone and nothing was allowed to fly below 8km altitude for fear of MANPADS threat?

When you have enemy special forces teams spread out over a 1,000km square area in small groups, it would be a challenge for any light attack aircraft... a drone will get the job done better and probably cheaper, with the small groups best engaged with small cheap guided missiles.

Kornet is rather cheap.

They stripped away the air defences from the entire country and concentrated them all in Kursk to give their guys the best air cover they could manage.

For Russia it is an opportunity to test new drones and new drone weapons as well as hunting techniques...

Such drones would also be useful in COIN operations amongst friendlies where targets need to be confirmed before being engaged before they can disappear.

The introduction of Medium-sized, missile carrier drones (as opposed to single-use Kamikaze drones) is certainly a welcome development.

It hasn't been a huge priority so far because as the Bakraytr has shown, such large drones are horribly vulnerable to conventional air defence systems that can spot them at long range and easily engage them because they don't have tiny RCS and tiny IIR signatures that make them hard to spot, and they are not physically small and easy and cheap to mass produce making shooting them down with missiles too expensive to be viable.

Conversely with decent optics and sensors they can fly high and be very cheap to operate and be able to loiter for very long periods looking for targets.

Being able to carry tiny guided bombs and missiles makes them able to react quickly to opportunities to hit targets that might not remain vulnerable for long enough to get a platform there to engage like a jet or helicopter.

A 20kg or 10kg bomb delivered with accuracy or an ATGM with guidance allowing direct hits means you don't need huge weapons... from 8-10km altitude glide kits and guided bombs or missiles would have good range and performance... the enemy might not even know you are there.

Orions have an estimated payload capacity of 250 kg, Okhotnik-B has 2000 kg, and Grom has 7000 kg, maybe in the near future the latter two can replace the Su-25 in its current role of close air support, Or perhaps Russia can just make an unmanned version of the Su-25

The CAS role is changing... a 250kg dumb bomb is cheap and putting a glide kit on it does not make it a lot more expensive, yet transforms it into a guided weapon that can be delivered from a much safer distance than a standard iron bomb.

Optical sensors (TV and IIR) as well as other sensors (LIDAR and AESA radar) can create very detailed views of the ground from substantial distances and altitudes.

We have seen they are talking about recon platforms like the M-17RM operating at 20km altitude and newer systems potentially including aerostats and airships operating up to 50km altitude searching the ground for targets and threats, as well as operating drones operating at lower altitudes also looking for targets and marking targets etc etc, so the finding of targets might be transferred to these platforms meaning the flying low and slow over the battlefield role might be replaced by hanging back and launching standoff cheap munitions like bombs with glide kits and missiles further back from the front line.

For that sort of thing a MiG-35 would be more use than a subsonic Su-25... being able to take off from forward airfields or sections of motor way, and being able to climb to altitude and high speed would extend the effective range of glide bombs and standoff missiles. Their AESA radar would enable them to also scan for enemy air power to cover the recon assets too... but of course medium range drones with AAMs and ARMS to deal with enemy air threats by themselves and also with ground based air defences would allow them to operate for longer periods.

Perhaps their more expensive sensors on the recon platforms can be pod mounted with glide kits to make them fly to friendly held territory if the aircraft is hit and brought down in combat so they can be recovered and reused... and also for various types of aircraft to use the pod mounted systems for recon roles... including light transport types and jet trainers.

Actually I just remembered they have laser guided 80mm rockets they can load into rocket pods... I seem to remember they have a 7 shot 80mm rocket pod as well as the two 20 shot pods for fast and slow aircraft.

With laser guidance each rocket should be a direct hit, and with the small rocket pods for light aircraft a pair of rocket pods would have 14 rockets ready to launch... so it could include, say 10 laser guided S-8L rockets whose 6kg warhead could be designed to penetrate roof armour of vehicles but also have a good blast radius with fragments for groups of troops or soft vehicles. The other 4 rockets could be short range suicide drones they developed.

They could be carried and used from high altitude... perhaps a custom designed pod that can be angled downwards so the drone does not have to keep entering dives to launch these rockets at targets on the ground below.

Those new flat box shaped rocket pods would be even more interesting.... you could incorporate a small gas charge to blow the rockets out of the tubes like a mortar so the rocket pods could be located on the belly surface of the drones... recessed into the drone so you get zero drag in flight... to launch turn the drone towards the target and lower the front of the pod down up to 30 degrees and fire a gas cannister to blow the rocket out of the tube and then light up the rocket motor after 1 second so it can get clear of the drone... then retract the launcher while you guide the laser homing rocket or suicide drone using laser target marking to ensure the correct target gets hit.

They have upgraded and improved the 57mm rockets too and they would be good for use against convoys of light vehicles like MRAPS and jeeps and unarmoured trucks... a rocket per vehicle. You could carry more 57mm rockets... which could perhaps be modified to have commonality with the HE warheads of the 57mm grenade launcher rounds for serial mass production... used in unguided and guided aerial rockets from air and ground platforms and as the standard armament of ground based BMPs...