Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+69
higurashihougi
AMCXXL
marcellogo
Kiko
ArgentinaGuard
Werewolf
Tolstoy
Stealthflanker
RTN
ahmedfire
Backman
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
Broski
Rodion_Romanovic
Godric
Walther von Oldenburg
Firebird
sundoesntrise
Krepost
Karl Haushofer
Hole
d_taddei2
VARGR198
littlerabbit
kvs
Big_Gazza
DerWolf
Rasisuki Nebia
mnztr
franco
mack8
ludovicense
thegopnik
psg
Hinex1988
Scorpius
lyle6
SeigSoloyvov
Arrow
Isos
Sujoy
Erk
lancelot
Belisarius
famschopman
Azi
Podlodka77
nomadski
TMA1
zorobabel
Ispan
PhSt
caveat emptor
ucmvulcan
flamming_python
PapaDragon
SolidarityWithRussia
sepheronx
Airbornewolf
Odin of Ossetia
billybatts91
Dr.Snufflebug
limb
diabetus
ALAMO
GarryB
Arkanghelsk
Regular
JohninMK
73 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    limb
    limb


    Posts : 1357
    Points : 1383
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  limb Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:03 pm

    If the challenger and leopards appear in the ukraine, will russian tank crews get issued refleks ATGMs and APFSDS rounds better than the 3BM42?
    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 2706
    Points : 2708
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:08 pm

    Marder and Bradley won't be engaged by a BMP crew, maybe some militia could run into such a scenario, and roll the dice in such an engagement

    But most likely these will be demilitarized by kornet, metis, Lancet, t72, t62, t90, or artillery

    Only a dumbass would fight an IFV with another IFV

    You fight infantry with IFV, you fight IFV with tanks, you fight tanks with helicopters, and it goes on and on

    Same with Leopards and Abrams tanks

    Before sending tanks, helicopters and artillery should hunt those machines

    Even entrenched infantry with ATGM would be better than using tanks

    Unless the tank commander wants to risk losing tanks in an engagement he could have called a KA52 or MI28 to handle


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, flamming_python, d_taddei2, Walther von Oldenburg, Sprut-B, ludovicense, Hole and like this post

    limb
    limb


    Posts : 1357
    Points : 1383
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  limb Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:09 pm

    I know that, but just in case theres no antitank or arty support.

    Russianb armed forces coordination in eastern ukraine in one pic.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Photo_13

    flamming_python, thegopnik and 11E like this post

    avatar
    mnztr


    Posts : 1897
    Points : 1941
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  mnztr Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:22 pm

    Marder and Bradley won't be engaged by a BMP crew, maybe some militia could run into such a scenario, and roll the dice in such an engagement But most likely these will be demilitarized by kornet, metis, Lancet, t72, t62, t90, or artillery Only a dumbass would fight an IFV with another IFV You fight infantry with IFV, you fight IFV with tanks, you fight tanks with helicopters, and it goes on and on wrote:

    you don't always get to choose. The AUF have not many tanks so they will try and engage with anything they have. Its ok to also set up ambush with these vehicles. I think the Russian BMPs have an advantage in primary weapons, but I think the missiles are Bradlys 2 TOW missiles are always ready, while the BMP you have to load them. The 100mm or 37mm on the BMP can probably take out Bradly at pretty good ranges though. Ideally the Bradlys are taken out by tanks, drones helos etc,
    limb
    limb


    Posts : 1357
    Points : 1383
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  limb Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:34 pm

    Nope, the BMPs have objectively better ATGM loading mechanisms. On the BMP-2 and BMP-1P(Unfortunately russians almost always use the shitty unupgraded on or the ATGMless basurmanin) the ATGM is quickly reloaded from the top hatch without having to exit the vehicles. On te BMP-3 the autoloader loads the missile. On the marder and bradley after 2(bradley) and 1(marder) atgm are fired, the crew has to exit the vehicles to reload.

    The advantage in the marder and bradley is the superior APFSDS ammo, superior armor and superior reverse speed at the cost of weight.
    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 2706
    Points : 2708
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:45 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Img_2238
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Scree126


    Looks like a new low altitude radar for MANPADS is being developed

    Looks good, good system for drone detection and using MANPADS

    Be good to take this with logistics groups that are not supported by SHORADS and can utilize Igla or Verba as a backup

    GarryB, d_taddei2, JohninMK, Hole and Broski like this post

    avatar
    mnztr


    Posts : 1897
    Points : 1941
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  mnztr Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:08 pm

    Nope, the BMPs have objectively better ATGM loading mechanisms. On the BMP-2 and BMP-1P(Unfortunately russians almost always use the shitty unupgraded on or the ATGMless basurmanin) the ATGM is quickly reloaded from the top hatch without having to exit the vehicles. On te BMP-3 the autoloader loads the missile. On the marder and bradley after 2(bradley) and 1(marder) atgm are fired, the crew has to exit the vehicles to reload. The advantage in the marder and bradley is the superior APFSDS ammo, superior armor and superior reverse speed at the cost of weight. wrote:

    for a sustained battle maybe, but I think the way the Bradlys are set up is that the engagement with tanks or other IFVs would be unexpected, in that case, being the first to fire is critical. Of course with a tank, they can fire after you and still win if the distance is great enough.
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 8400
    Points : 8388
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Hole Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:14 pm

    Chebureki Man:
    It's not that Russia sucks at PR, it's that it no longer cares. The West has proven itself a backstabber, a fake friend to Russia, plotting it harm while smiling with gritted teeth. PR is pointless with venal Western leaders who only negotiate in bad faith for their own benefit.

    thumbsup

    GarryB, franco, flamming_python, Big_Gazza, kvs, ALAMO, Godric and like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 3916
    Points : 3918
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  ALAMO Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:19 pm

    Having 7 out of 8 bln people on it's side ... I would call that rather fine PR ...

    GarryB, flamming_python, Big_Gazza and Hole like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 12036
    Points : 12163
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  JohninMK Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:30 pm

    Watch the little black dot change direction a few times before impacting.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, ALAMO, littlerabbit, Hole, Belisarius and Podlodka77 like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 2706
    Points : 2708
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:40 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Img_2240
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Img_2239
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Img_2241

    There's the north wind,  and then there is the Alibaba express

    No problems on that front

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Img_2242

    There goes the neighborhood

    GarryB, franco and flamming_python like this post

    Sujoy
    Sujoy


    Posts : 2076
    Points : 2238
    Join date : 2012-04-02
    Location : India || भारत

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Sujoy Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:16 pm

    Ukrainian soldiers are being sent to the US so that they can be trained to use the Patriot system.

    90-100 soldiers are needed to operate a solitary Patriot battery. Quite an inefficient system.

    the challenger and leopards appear in the ukraine, will russian tank crews get issued refleks ATGMs and APFSDS rounds better than the 3BM42?
    Ideally, Russia should engage them with heavy artillery from stand off range.
    avatar
    diabetus


    Posts : 306
    Points : 309
    Join date : 2014-04-20

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  diabetus Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:23 pm

    It's bizarre to see people refer to Bradleys as "BMPs" in English publications and posts when BMP means nothing in English and is just a translation of a Russian acronym.

    franco, littlerabbit and lancelot like this post

    Walther von Oldenburg
    Walther von Oldenburg


    Posts : 1404
    Points : 1501
    Join date : 2015-01-23
    Age : 32
    Location : Oldenburg

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:25 pm

    🇷🇺🇺🇦 According to some reports, up to 300-400 enemy soldiers and officers could remain in the urban areas of Soledar, who did not have time to withdraw and fell into a boiler.
    Broski
    Broski


    Posts : 488
    Points : 490
    Join date : 2021-07-12

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Broski Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:32 pm

    the challenger and leopards appear in the ukraine, will russian tank crews get issued refleks ATGMs and APFSDS rounds better than the 3BM42?
    Ideally, Russia should engage them with heavy artillery from stand off range.
    Krasnopol will do just fine, or helicopter ATGM's.

    GarryB, psg, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, zardof, Sprut-B, Hole and like this post

    franco
    franco


    Posts : 5709
    Points : 5739
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  franco Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:58 pm

    The press secretary of the President of Russia called the condition for the participation of conscripts in a special operation

    Currently, conscripts are not sent to participate in a special military operation. Only contract soldiers and volunteers participate in the fighting. However, no one can deprive an adult citizen of Russia of the right to defend his homeland.

    Moreover, it is quite natural that young people who are now serving in the army on conscription often want to go to participate in a special operation - to test their personal qualities, gain combat experience, and earn good money by Russian standards.

    Any serviceman of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (RF Armed Forces) who is on active duty on conscription may take part in a special military operation. However, for this he will have to sign a contract. This was stated to TASS by the press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin Dmitry Peskov.

    To participate in the SVO, a conscript must make this decision voluntarily. To participate in a special operation, a conscripted serviceman must switch to contract service, that is, conclude a contract. Then the conscript will be able to go to participate in a special operation without any problems.

    According to current legislation, to conclude a contract, you must serve in the army for at least three months. But there are exceptions: conscripts with a higher professional education can conclude a contract immediately after being called up for military service.

    It should be noted that conscription for military service in Russia covers persons aged 18 to 27 years. Many young Russians are drafted into the army after graduating from higher educational institutions, that is, at the age of 22-23. Thus, a conscript may be even older than a contract soldier who served after school and signed a contract at the age of 19.

    The upper age limit for concluding a contract for military service after the start of a special military operation has been removed. This opened up the possibility of signing a contract for many representatives of the older age groups who have experience of participating in hostilities in "hot spots".

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/208350-press-sekretar-prezidenta-rossii-nazval-uslovie-uchastija-voennosluzhaschih-srochnoj-sluzhby-v-specoperacii.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    GarryB, d_taddei2, zardof, littlerabbit, Hole, lancelot, Broski and jon_deluxe like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12706
    Points : 12764
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:08 pm


    What does Russia need to take in order to kick Ukrainians out of artillery range of Donetsk?



    littlerabbit, owais.usmani and mavaff like this post

    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 1649
    Points : 1651
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  lancelot Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:20 pm

    It depends really. Do you mean conventional artillery range, GMLRS range, or what? I would think they need to at least get them outside even the extended range artillery.

    littlerabbit likes this post

    avatar
    Regular


    Posts : 3492
    Points : 3472
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Fuck war

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Regular Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:27 pm

    The biggest weakness of Bradleys and Marders will be inexperienced crew, the same goes with tanks.

    They will drop like flies from maintenance alone.

    Both of these machines would face problems dealing with BMP-3 if the range is correct. In the close range - crew experience would be crucial. Think what would happen to IFV if 2a42 gun would open fire with HE from close range. It would leave it blind and would strip ATGM box and damage the gun. It's not Tiger tank in the Western Front.

    ATGM-rich environment on both sides. Russians also have used Kornets externally mounted on their BTRs and they have technicals with it too. Anything without APS is not safe
    BTR-82a Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Image95

    PapaDragon wrote:What does Russia need to take in order to kick Ukrainians out of artillery range of Donetsk?

    Ukrainian attacks on actual military targets? Otherwise, it seems the Russian army is not bothered. Also, it's hard to catch shoot and scoot artillery pieces. It's been 8 long years....

    GarryB, d_taddei2 and littlerabbit like this post

    billybatts91
    billybatts91


    Posts : 467
    Points : 469
    Join date : 2022-02-23

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  billybatts91 Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:43 pm

    GarryB, Big_Gazza and littlerabbit like this post

    limb
    limb


    Posts : 1357
    Points : 1383
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  limb Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:50 pm

    It depends really. Do you mean conventional artillery range, GMLRS range, or what? I would think they need to at least get them outside even the extended range artillery.
    He means what does it take to fully take maryinka, avdeevka, ugledar, etc in order to get donetsk out of range of artillery.
    ludovicense
    ludovicense


    Posts : 200
    Points : 202
    Join date : 2017-09-26
    Age : 55
    Location : Brasil

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  ludovicense Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:54 pm

    Levi
    @Levi_godman
    Now that Wagner will capture the salt mines we in Russia will finally have salt!

    1 step closer to civilization.

    • Ukrainian Washing machines ✔
    • Ukrainian Dishwashers ✔
    • Toilets from Kihiiieeeiieeev ✔

    ................................

    Jokes aside, these Wagner are now a terror for the Ukrainian army. The Chechens must be jealous... Laughing

    GarryB, Regular, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, ALAMO, zepia, JohninMK and like this post

    avatar
    Dr.Snufflebug


    Posts : 785
    Points : 785
    Join date : 2017-12-27

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:09 pm

    So a couple of hundred Ukrainians and western mercs are trapped in a part of Soledar, the rest of the VSU has fled.

    An ultimatum has reportedly been given: surrender by midnight or face thermobaric destruction.

    An hour to go?

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, ALAMO, zardof, littlerabbit, Sprut-B and like this post

    avatar
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


    Posts : 416
    Points : 428
    Join date : 2016-01-20

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:13 pm

    Sprintero ވ
    @Sprinter20000
    Concrete blocks are being placed again on the streets of Kyiv.

    Big_Gazza likes this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 8400
    Points : 8388
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Hole Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:19 pm

    Battalions of the 3rd Motor Rifle Division of Russia added to the advance in the Kremennaya-Svatovo front.
    Yesterday T-90M dismantled Ukrainian positions at short range, but today they just fled before the tanks had time to fire.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Fmi1py10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Fmi1pz10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Fmi1pz11

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, Godric, zardof, littlerabbit and Podlodka77 like this post


    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:05 am