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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

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    Post  Regular Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:28 am

    It seems Ukrs are starting to use their own Geran-2 type of drones. Very very interesting. They are probably made in Poland as I doubt Ukriane has capacity to produce even simple lawnmower drones themselves. I wonder if they can produce it en-masse and maybe start hitting Moscow and not just airfields, but Russian power stations, gas refineries and other infrastructure. There was a rumour that they can churn out 50 of these drones per month.
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    Post  diabetus Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:36 am

    Might be wise to relocate then, no need to be within range with 5000km missiles.

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    Post  Stealthflanker Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:41 am

    and naturally air defense must cope with that or we may see Moscow power grid got hit. and that is not healthy at all.

    They may even try mass drone attack to say St Petersburg or some other important target like say Russian AEW base.

    Well they already have such capability tho with cheap commercial drone, tho seems mass employement are still out of question for them somehow. Probably for propaganda purpose, but Russia should not tolerate this as well it's bad for morale especially after retreat from Kherson.
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    Post  diabetus Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:48 am

    Yeah geran style drone swarm attacks against Russia would be rather humiliating.
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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:54 am

    Any evidence, official statement or the like that would indicate some new type of long range attack?

    Small Ukrainian saboteur groups have been conducting attacks with smaller drones several times, as well as with larger amounts of explosives and infiltration tactics. In Crimea, in Rostov oblast, in Volgograd, in Bryansk and Kursk oblasts. Many, many more attacks could have happened, but were neutralized by the FSB, some resulting in rather spectacular shoot-outs. The screening of "refugees" hasn't been up to scratch, so to speak, and Russia's rather complacent when it comes to base security sometimes. Seems like it just never occured to them that Ukrainians would even attempt such things, since they appear so foolhardy.

    So, before everyone just jump to some long-range drones, I'd like to see some evidence for it. Not that I would be surprised if it turns out to be true, but it just seems everybody's like "Oh my god, Moscow is at risk now! Nuke 'em already!" the instant it's even hinted at, while we know that more localized forms of sabotage attempts have happened and most certaintly will happen again.

    In less speculative drone news, it seems like the new armed variant Forpost-RU has been put to use, with strikes in Volchansk, and the Takhion recce UAV has been deployed as well (basically does what Orlan-10 does, but it's more versatile and more advanced).


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:01 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Post  Regular Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:55 am

    Russia should would huyud, reality is that the longer as this drags on, the more chances Ukraine will have chances to hit Russia. Russians started wiping out their infrastructure, they have nothing nothing to lose.

    Don’t get me started about Russian response, they literally have NATO AWACS and ELINT planes buzzing around Crimea in international waters and providing real time information to an enemy state. It’s clear that Russia has no teeth to bite back. Otherwise you wouldn’t see Russia involving in one-sided pederastic deals like the one made regards UA exporting grain. And now openly discussed rumours about NPP.



    Last edited by Regular on Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  famschopman Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:56 am

    Exactly what I expected given Russia's success in using them and the inability of anti-air to properly detect and track them. Use of composites and plastics for the frame and body and even more difficult with electric engines and no heat signature. More will surely follow after this result. The only thing encased in metal would be the payload.
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:00 pm

    From MoA.

    As is generally the case Gilbert Doctorow, in St Petersburg/Petrograd, has interesting news:

    "..there is (in Tsarkoy Selo) a military hospital of national importance. It is from the latter that today’s news comes.

    "My acquaintance tells me that the hospital is now filled with wounded Russian soldiers from the Ukraine campaign, and in particular with maimed POWs who were released by the Ukrainian authorities in prisoner exchanges. The hospitalized include a good many traumatized soldiers who were savagely castrated or otherwise disabled by their Ukrainian captors.

    "If publicized, these cases would be far more inflammatory in broad Russian society than the horrendous video which circulated in social media a week ago showing the brutal execution of a dozen disarmed Russian POWs by jubilant Ukrainian soldiers. Clearly, the Kremlin is holding this back, lest detailed knowledge of the Ukrainian brutality unleash violent emotions in the Russian public.

    "In these circumstances, I call attention to the very difficult balancing act required of the Russian President. The man has nerves of steel. He is surely under great pressure from the patriotic hard-liners in the Kremlin who are au courant about the castrations and other evidence of Ukrainian depravity. One nod from Vladimir Vladimirovich and Kiev would be leveled to the ground in a matter of hours. It is tragic that Washington and Brussels confuse this restraint with incompetence, fear and other nonsense..."

    https://gilbertdoctorow.com/

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    Post  Isos Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:14 pm

    I already said they will go for the tupolevs using the cover it is ukros attacking them. They are in the open and a drones with a granade is enough to destroy them if they are full of fuel.

    US are targetting russian strategic forces. And next can be damaging subs specially the ones carrying poseidon.

    They are playing with fire since this can be interpeted as a first strike to destroy russia's nuclear triade.


    Last edited by Isos on Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  JohninMK Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:14 pm

    Note the clean trenches and anti drone netting (both to hide under and hopefully deflect or cause not to impact explode munitions). Smaller mesh that camo netting, looks like the stuff I use in my garden to keep birds off my crops.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/7KvAezMg8ia8/

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    Post  crod Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:15 pm

    I mean if there’s any truth to that report of torture then they either have to show the world what has happened - there are many the world over would be appalled by such a sight and would cause an enormous backlash against the current levels of support, support this already on the wain in Europe.
    Or give residents 48 hrs to leave Kiev and level it.

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    Post  JohninMK Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:19 pm

    Any evidence, official statement or the like that would indicate some new type of long range attack?

    Given the very long history of the SAS in particular, the Russians should have been expecting this kind of long range attack as NATO SF will have been teaching the Ukies exactly this kind of tactic.

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    Post  Karl Haushofer Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:23 pm

    The problem is that Russia never retaliates against the West.

    The West has seen how weak Russia really is and is fully abusing this weakness now.

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    Post  Karl Haushofer Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:26 pm

    And how should Russia retaliate when Russian territory is attacked?

    The world is full of Western military bases. Start taking them out. One by one. Each time Russian territory is hit.

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:28 pm

    Yeah geran style drone swarm attacks against Russia would be rather humiliating.

    What precisely is humiliating about it? No country is currently able to defend itself from drone swarms

    Russia is in a state of undeclared war with NATO, with their industrial and R&D capacity being mobilized for the task of destroying Russia. It's not the Ukraine that's doing anything.
    The only restriction is that it has to be done via the Ukraine so to speak, so launched from Ukrainian territory and directed from there too.

    And yes the threat of NATO-designed Geran-2 type drones is what I warned was coming. I hope Russia has got its measures in place for the inevitable.


    Small Ukrainian saboteur groups have been conducting attacks with smaller drones several times, as well as with larger amounts of explosives and infiltration tactics. In Crimea, in Rostov oblast, in Volgograd, in Bryansk and Kursk oblasts. Many, many more attacks could have happened, but were neutralized by the FSB, some resulting in rather spectacular shoot-outs. The screening of "refugees" hasn't been up to scratch, so to speak, and Russia's rather complacent when it comes to base security sometimes. Seems like it just never occured to them that Ukrainians would even attempt such things, since they appear so foolhardy.

    It occured to them, as it has been happening for the last 6 months, as you yourself admitted.

    Stop assuming things you have no knowledge of. It's impossible to prevent everything, but Engels specifically should have been better protected, and moreover the entirety of strategic aviation should not be concentrated there under any circumstance.

    The problem is that Russia never retaliates against the West.

    The West has seen how weak Russia really is and is fully abusing this weakness now.

    Russia can only retaliate against where these attacks are directly coming from and the people who are on the ground carrying them out.

    The rest is all deniable and will lead to WW3 in short order.

    Doesn't take a genius to realize that.

    Good news is there are plenty of suitable targets in the Ukraine itself, including the same NATO personnel directing attacks. It's just a matter of hide and seek.

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    Post  Karl Haushofer Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:37 pm


    Russia can only retaliate against where these attacks are directly coming from and the people who are on the ground carrying them out.

    The rest is all deniable and will lead to WW3 in short order.

    This type of thinking is why Russia will always be an underdog against the West.

    If Russia knows the West is behind these attacks it should not matter where Russia hits in retaliation. Any western target is good enough, be it a US military base in Okinawa or in Syria.

    Right now the West is attacking Russian territory without any kind of a retaliation from Russia. This makes Russia look weak and only invites more aggression.
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:43 pm

    This type of thinking is why Russia will always be an underdog against the West.

    If Russia knows the West is behind these attacks it should not matter where Russia hits in retaliation. Any western target is good enough, be it a US military base in Okinawa or in Syria.

    Right now the West is attacking Russian territory without any kind of a retaliation from Russia. This makes Russia look weak and only invites more aggression.

    Did the US ever bomb in Iran in the end, despite all those attacks on their troops in Iraq?

    Doesn't work like that.

    I agree hitting Russian targets in Russia is a step above that.

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    Post  JohninMK Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:47 pm

    Map of Military Operations and the Situation on the Fronts on the Evening of 4 Dec 2022; pub. 0:05:zap:

       🇬🇪 The situation in the #Artemovsk direction has long resembled Verdun in 1916. The situation for the AFU is so dire that even Zelensky cannot fail to admit it. And today some good news came out of the thick of it. Georgian Legion militants have been encircled by the Russian army. The information was confirmed by both the Ukrainian OP and the foreign fighters themselves. It is these barbarians who are involved in the brutal massacre of Russian soldiers in the #Kiev region, they also took part in the torture and abuse of our prisoners of war. It seems that retribution is on the way.

       ⚔ The Situation on the Fronts in the outgoing 24 Hours

       ♦#Svatovo - #Kremennaya Direction:

       With strikes on the AFU positions near #Novoselovskoye, the militants' attempt to attack in the direction of #Kuzemovka was thwarted. Also militants unsuccessfully tried to attack our positions in the direction of #Ploshchanka, #Chervonopopovka, as well as #Zhytlovka LPR. In addition, attacks by AFU assault groups in the direction of #Kremennaya were thwarted near Serebryanskoye Lesnichestvo, and three SRGs were destroyed near Chervonaya Dibrova. As a result, the militants in this direction lost over 80 nationalists killed and wounded, one tank, a BMP and an armoured vehicle.

       ♦#Ugledar Direction:

       The militants attempted to break through to #Pavlovka, but were forced out by the Russian army into minefields and destroyed by artillery fire. In the #Shevchenko area, the Ukrainian attacks also ended in heavy losses, the enemy being pushed back to their initial positions by assault air strikes.

       💥 A Ukrainian Su-25 was shot down by Russian Air Force fighter aircraft near #Krasnoarmeysk in the DPR. Two US-made AN/TPQ-37 anti-radar counter-battery warfare stations were destroyed in the #Grigorovka and #Markovo districts of the DPR.

       🎖 Today is a tough day for Russian army aviation. Militants using Buk SAMs shot down our Ka-52 attack helicopter. Both crew members were killed. The eternal heroes of the sky have six Orders of Courage for two. The guys are presented with Russia's highest awards - the Gold Stars of Heroes. Posthumously.


    https://t.me/sitreports/1624


    Russia has taken the issue of defence in new territories seriously and is building powerful fortifications.

    Russian military correspondent Aleksandr Kots said this on the air of Radio Komsomolskaya Pravda:

    "We have now started to approach defence in a completely different way." I travelled from Kherson to Luhansk, and on all breakthrough sections, there is now literally construction of fortifications on an industrial scale, and I take my hat off to civilian builders who build trenches, anti-tank moats, and anti-tank shafts in the danger zone, and there are concrete pillboxes being dug into the ground and bunkers being lined with linings.

    Not the soldier with a shovel is digging himself, but professional builders are doing it all. Those "dragon's teeth" that go along the defence line for a kilometre in three rows of concrete triangles so that the tanks cannot go through them These are all done by civilian builders, the courageous ones. "In fact, they do their duty in the strike zone of Ukrainian artillery," said the military correspondent.


    https://t.me/Slavyangrad/23578


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    Post  flamming_python Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:48 pm

    Russia should would huyud, reality is that the longer as this drags on, the more chances Ukraine will have chances to hit Russia. Russians started wiping out their infrastructure, they have nothing nothing to lose.

    Of course they will have chances to hit Russia

    And they will have chances for the next 10 years, even long after any war is over.

    But none of that can affect the outcome of the war

    What does affect the outcome of the war is whether Russia succumbs to impatience and starts making mistakes.

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    Post  JohninMK Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:49 pm

    Chronicle of the Special Military Operation for 3-4 Dec 2022⚡

    ♦#Russia's Border Areas:

    ▪ Ukrainian militants shelled the village of #Tishanka and the village of #Krasnoye in the #Belgorod region, damaging residential buildings, gas and electricity supply lines. There were no casualties or injuries.

    ▪ Enemy militants struck the village of #Guevo and the hamlet of #Kucherovo, #Kursk region, with no civilian casualties.

    ♦#Starobelsk Direction:

    ▪ In the #Lyman area, Ukrainian units launched an offensive towards #Ploshchanka. Russian forces repulsed the enemy attack, forcing them to retreat with losses of personnel and equipment.

    ▪ At the same time, the AFU advanced towards #Chervonopopovka. Russian units counterattacked and pushed the Ukrainian formations back to their initial positions.

    ▪ Artillery duels continue along the entire line of contact. The RF Armed Forces hit enemy concentrations in #Ternovaya, #Berestovoye, #Vishnevoye and #Tabaevka.

    ♦#Slavyansk Direction:

    ▪ On Saturday, Russian missile forces and artillery struck the Starokramatorsk machine-building plant in #Kramatorsk. A fire broke out at the facility.

    ♦#Soldar Direction:

    ▪ In the #Bakhmuts (#Artemovsk) sector, fighting continues near #Opytnoye. The RF Armed Forces have surrounded a group of Georgian mercenaries and eliminated at least five men.

    ▪ The Ukrainian command is redeploying additional units to the area to compensate for the losses incurred. In the area of Chasova Yar, the enemy is strengthening its defensive lines.

    ♦#Lugansk People's Republic:

    ▪ Ukrainian militants fired HIMARS missiles at populated areas of the LPR. On Saturday, residential modules oof the State Budgetary Institution 'Dorinvest' in #Novochervonoye were hit. On Sunday, a technical school and a student hostel in #Alchevsk were damaged. Two people were injured.

    ♦#Donetsk Direction:

    ▪ Motorised rifle units of the RF Armed Forces continue fighting in the centre of #Maryinka. Both sides are exchanging artillery strikes.

    ▪ Enemy militants shelled civilian targets in #Donetsk, #Gorlovka, #Yasynuvata, #Mineralnoye, #Makeyevka and other towns and villages of the agglomeration with barrel and rocket artillery.

    ♦#Zaporozhye Direction:

    ▪ Russian forces hit concentrations of AFU personnel and armoured vehicles in #Orekhov, #Malinovka, #Chervonoye and #Gulyaypolskoye.

    ▪ Ukrainian militants shelled residential buildings in #Mikhailovka, civilians were not injured.


    https://t.me/sitreports/1625

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:53 pm

    flamming_python wrote:It occured to them, as it has been happening for the last 6 months, as you yourself admitted.

    Stop assuming things you have no knowledge of. It's impossible to prevent everything, but Engels specifically should have been better protected, and moreover the entirety of strategic aviation should not be concentrated there under any circumstance.

    Eh? What you describe is the very same complacency I mentioned.

    Early on it was:

    "Oh, we don't need to spend any time/effort on protecting these military sites close-ish to Ukraine. They they wouldn't be that foolhardy/dumb to try to attack them"

    "They attacked, but surely that was a one-off moronic thing, no need to dedicate extra resources beefing up base security based on that single event"

    "It happened again..."

    And again.

    I also mentioned that they have since caught many saboteurs in preparation, and some were literally caught in the act, in the nick of time. But initially, it very much did not seem to occur to them that the Ukrainians would even attempt these things, and that's become a recurring issue. That kind of complacency still remains. It's like they are always telling themselves that "surely, they won't try to go just that little bit further, now that we've dealt with some of their previous shenanigans, so we can relax".

    They will go further, you can't relax.

    ed: But I still request more information on the alleged Engels attack.


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:57 pm

    Who says the Russians are complacent?

    War is a constant process of both sides trying to outsmart each other. Measures and counter-measures. Sometimes the enemy will succeed it's as simple as that. They are human beings, with far lesser resources but still human beings, capable of analyzing, devising strategies, discovering weak points, and gaining whatever technology and means they need from NATO provided they're compact enough.

    But I'm still surprised the Ukrainians got through at Engels at all places.
    That's not complacency, I don't think so, just Russia's high security efforts were overcome by whatever means, and that requires some ponderance upon.

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    Post  PhSt Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:59 pm

    This is getting irritating. Russia should just declare an all out war and turn Pukraine into a sea of fire already. Kill everyone including NATzO Pigs in occupied Pukraine
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    Post  ALAMO Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:03 pm

    Kabooming started as we speak.
    Ukro sources are citing 14 Tu-95s and confirmed strikes from the Black Sea.
    It's Monday, you know ...

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:07 pm

    As an example, Crimea learned its lesson after two surprise attacks, and all attacks there since, whether by local sabotage groups or remote attacks (long-range UAVs and USVs) have been successfully neutralized.

    The first two (?) attacks shouldn't even have succeeded had they realized the gravity of the situation. They were rather complacent, thinking that "no way they'd attempt that"... But at least they got everything in order before major damage happened.

    Likewise, there shouldn't even be the possibility of an attack on strategically important Engels AFB at this stage. Doesn't matter if it's by a sabotage team working locally or by some new long-range drone (that I still have't seen any evidence for).

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