Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+79
SolidarityWithRussia
walle83
mnrck
Ned86
bandit6
Sujoy
Regular
Kiko
Belisarius
Robert.V
Odin of Ossetia
lancelot
calripson
d_taddei2
mr_hd
Stealthflanker
Rodion_Romanovic
Dr.Snufflebug
franco
Werewolf
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
kvs
par far
owais.usmani
lyle6
SeigSoloyvov
Walther von Oldenburg
Broski
Arsenic
PhSt
ahmedfire
Mir
andalusia
Ispan
VARGR198
Isos
LMFS
0nillie0
auslander
Podlodka77
Azi
Tolstoy
mnztr
Arkanghelsk
AlfaT8
ludovicense
ALAMO
mavaff
AMCXXL
GunshipDemocracy
Airbornewolf
Hole
GarryB
billybatts91
famschopman
Arrow
Firebird
nomadski
Erk
zepia
wilhelm
crod
sepheronx
TMA1
Lapain
ucmvulcan
flamming_python
Backman
Tsavo Lion
thegopnik
Big_Gazza
zorobabel
PapaDragon
caveat emptor
JohninMK
ArgentinaGuard
DerWolf
limb
Scorpius
83 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 2411
    Points : 2415
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Mir Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:19 pm

    These things are mainly constructed from plastic if I'm not mistaken with very few metallic parts. I would also expect that some of the drones are semi-submersible, which would make them even more difficult to either spot or track.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Drone110

    Despite the NASAM and the IRIS-T systems the [F]Ukrs seems to have some major difficulties tracking - let alone stopping Geran-2 attack drones dunno

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Geran210

    GarryB, d_taddei2, kvs, ALAMO, JohninMK, Hole, Broski and Podlodka77 like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 3475
    Points : 3477
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  ALAMO Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:31 pm

    Mir wrote:These things are mainly constructed from plastic if I'm not mistaken with very few metallic parts. I would also expect that some of the drones are semi-submersible, which would make them even more difficult to either spot or track.

    The one of Turkish origin they have intercepted, and that was the one we saw lately, is made of glass fiber that is radar transparent.
    Most of the parts like engine, shaft etc is hidden underwater.
    Water itself is radar reflective, in real terms, radar waves are disrupted by water particles, fog, sprinklers, etc.
    That reduces the range and accuracy of the radar by a huge factor.
    Some naval radars are specialized for that task and are mostly used as a part of the SAR system.
    With the proper algorithms, they can  "mark" the water as the overall radar characteristics are kind of different.
    Aside from that, nobody pier a ship with the radar turned on, for multiple reasons.
    Ships at the harbor are secured by different means, and there are some of them in the Sevastopol naval bay for sure - some of the drones were reported to be caught by the protective nets.
    The system worked, the damaged ship was a minesweeper doing its job - taking out the drones. Russkie have a real serious minesweeping fleet, on a peak of modernization - those Alexandrit are being ordered in some insane number (40?!?).
    It will be soon a very interesting part of the arms race, as that type of warfare is not widely spread. Everybody invests heavily in naval drones lately. US-made drones harrasing the Chinese or Iran are being caught in a quite regular manner.

    Edit : by the way, the Ukr revealed material with the approach of naval drone towards Admiral Makarov documented one quite interesting thing. Take a look at it. The whole ship is extremely well thermal protected - the only visible heat source are exhausts, and that is not massive either.
    I remember a few years ago when the Brits publicized a footage of some 11356 frigate being assisted by Type 23 frigate.
    The pic was astonishing - a cold blood hulk of a Russian vessel that is hardly visible in TI spectrum, while the Type 23 was glowing like a fuckin' Xmas tree.
    This is what a generation advance is in real lads.


    Last edited by ALAMO on Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, kvs, zepia, JohninMK, Hole, lyle6, lancelot and like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 11765
    Points : 11892
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  JohninMK Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:52 pm

    famschopman wrote:
    It's floating partially above the water line; let's say ~30cm / ~40cm. It is sticking out of the waves, but I am not an expert in radar technology as to why it doesn't bounce back signals. Maybe it is just below the required radar horizon. Not sure if you can use sonar systems just below the waterline either to detect it.

    If you are only relying on optical, in dark circumstance, you're absolutely at risk.

    You need radar almost with the sensitivity to detect periscopes. Tough task.

    This will boost R&D on these drones too.

    ALAMO, Hole and Mir like this post

    avatar
    mnztr


    Posts : 1818
    Points : 1860
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  mnztr Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:42 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Despite the NASAM and the IRIS-T systems the [F]Ukrs seems to have some major difficulties tracking - let alone stopping Geran-2 attack drones dunno

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Geran210


    Every Geran-2 shot down by NASAM is a win for Russia. 1.2M vs 20k? lol tongue

    GarryB, franco, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, thegopnik, Mir and Broski like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 3475
    Points : 3477
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  ALAMO Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:52 pm

    Some tech specs of the naval drones were revealed.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Zrzut_34

    Those are electric powered, with a jet propeller and batteries on board.
    Hull is about 40 cm high.
    The bottom of the hull is quite flat, so the educated guess is that the thing won't be useful in bad weather. And "bad" is really flexible, it seems to be really some kind of oversized RC model.
    The type was already battled by the Russkies a month ago, Sep 21st - one or two destroyed, and one brought ashore due to comm jamming probably.
    Take a look at the nose - it is a kind of contact detonators, so the whole thing is built for asymmetric warfare, remotely controlled penetration of a defense perimeter at naval bases.
    Quite clever I must say!

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, Hole, Mir and Broski like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 11765
    Points : 11892
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  JohninMK Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:14 pm

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, TMA1 and Broski like this post

    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 1568
    Points : 1570
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  lancelot Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:15 pm

    Russia needs to pass one of these "suicide boat" things to Iran so they can copy it.

    GarryB, flamming_python, Big_Gazza, ALAMO, zardof, lyle6, Mir and like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 3475
    Points : 3477
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  ALAMO Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:35 pm

    lancelot wrote:Russia needs to pass one of these "suicide boat" things to Iran so they can copy it.

    Iran has had some toys of the line for several years Laughing
    The famous "carrier attack" was carried out by some 50 of the kind back in ... 2018??

    GarryB, flamming_python, d_taddei2, Mir, Broski and Podlodka77 like this post

    Tolstoy
    Tolstoy


    Posts : 100
    Points : 96
    Join date : 2015-07-12

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Tolstoy Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:57 pm

    flamming_python wrote:No AK-630s you might note though. They can be aimed manually but probably don't have optics optimized for that.
    That Ukro USV was blown out of the water by Russian helicopters. Video clearly shows that.

    flamming_python likes this post

    Airbornewolf
    Airbornewolf


    Posts : 1195
    Points : 1263
    Join date : 2014-02-05
    Location : https://odysee.com/@airbornewolf:8

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Airbornewolf Sun Oct 30, 2022 7:59 pm

    footage of RF navy engaging Ukrainian drones near Sevastopol



    RF TOS-1A targeting Ukrainian troops in the Donbass


    RF Drone strike on Ukrainian BUK Air Defense and M777


    Allied troops neutralize ukrainian reinforcements to the gas-station


    Ukrainian troops ambushed by RF forces in Kherson region


    Last edited by Airbornewolf on Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, franco, d_taddei2, par far, Big_Gazza, kvs, zepia and like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 8001
    Points : 7989
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Hole Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:24 pm

    JohninMK wrote:You need radar almost with the sensitivity to detect periscopes. Tough task.

    This will boost R&D on these drones too.
    Add a few Grachenoks to the defence of the harbor. Some blimp (aerostat) with good optics could help, too.

    GarryB, flamming_python and Big_Gazza like this post

    franco
    franco


    Posts : 5582
    Points : 5612
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  franco Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:31 pm

    Hole wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:You need radar almost with the sensitivity to detect periscopes. Tough task.

    This will boost R&D on these drones too.
    Add a few Grachenoks to the defence of the harbor. Some blimp (aerostat) with good optics could help, too.

    Actually they use an old fashion anti-submarine net along with Grachenoks and Raptors.

    GarryB, flamming_python, d_taddei2 and Mir like this post

    Scorpius dislikes this post

    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 525
    Points : 525
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Krepost Sun Oct 30, 2022 9:26 pm

    Confirmation from Sevastopol residents:

    Both Grigorovich class frigates are in Sevastopol harbor. No visible damage, masts and everything are intact.

    The Ivan Gobulets is also at harbor. She made it there on her own power. The way it is parked, they can see the bow only and there is no damage there. Whtever "minor" damage reported is probably at the stern.

    By the way Ivan Gobulets was commissioned in the Soviet Navy in 1973. She is 49 years old.

    GarryB, franco, flamming_python, d_taddei2, Airbornewolf, Big_Gazza, kvs and like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 8001
    Points : 7989
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Hole Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:08 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Fgvb_v10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Fgvdpy10
    All those poor countries receiving grain, the people there will go hungry now.  Rolling Eyes
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Fgvvwo10
    Somehow related to the conflict.  Laughing

    sepheronx, GarryB, franco, flamming_python, Airbornewolf, kvs, zepia and like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 8001
    Points : 7989
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Hole Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:09 pm

    Krepost wrote:By the way Ivan Gobulets was commissioned in the Soviet Navy in 1973. She is 49 years old.
    Compared to the B-52´s and KC-135´s of the USAF she is a young girl.  Very Happy

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, auslander, Broski, Belisarius and Podlodka77 like this post

    Serberus
    Serberus


    Posts : 354
    Points : 356
    Join date : 2022-02-24

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Serberus Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:53 pm

    famschopman wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Grain ships were use to f*ck Russia over? No way!!!

    Who could have seen THIS coming? (Spoiler: everyone and their grandma)

    But Russians gotta pussyfoot


    Now that this event happened the recklessness of US/UK/Ukraine and all involved covert organizations has been exposed. China, India, Iran, Turkey, Saudis' all have been informed and can't do anything than side with Russia's cancellation of the agreement because it is clear who is at fault here. These transports were a neutral zone in order to avoid food shortages. Well ... guess who fucked up.


    According to some reports It appears Ukronazistan, Turkey and the UN are going ahead with grain exports without the participation of Russia…so how is Russia going to stop it now? Engage civilian vessels or Turkish navy?
    Once you start pussyfooting, is it just a snowball effect.
    avatar
    ucmvulcan


    Posts : 625
    Points : 627
    Join date : 2022-02-26

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  ucmvulcan Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:07 pm

    Serberus wrote:
    famschopman wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Grain ships were use to f*ck Russia over? No way!!!

    Who could have seen THIS coming? (Spoiler: everyone and their grandma)

    But Russians gotta pussyfoot


    Now that this event happened the recklessness of US/UK/Ukraine and all involved covert organizations has been exposed. China, India, Iran, Turkey, Saudis' all have been informed and can't do anything than side with Russia's cancellation of the agreement because it is clear who is at fault here. These transports were a neutral zone in order to avoid food shortages. Well ... guess who fucked up.


    According to some reports It appears Ukronazistan, Turkey and the UN are going ahead with grain exports without the participation of Russia…so how is Russia going to stop it now? Engage civilian vessels or Turkish navy?
    Once you start pussyfooting, is it just a snowball effect.

    I will be revisiting this post as soon as the Soil in Ukraine hardens enough to allow for a winter offensive (approximately a fortnight).

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, Mir, Broski, Belisarius and Podlodka77 like this post

    avatar
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


    Posts : 373
    Points : 385
    Join date : 2016-01-20

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:21 pm

    Sprinter Monitor
    @SprinterMonitor
    ·
    Ukrainian Armed Forces have selected dozens of pilots for training on Western-style fighters, - Yury Ignat, Speaker of the Air Force Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine


    F-16 A/B?
    F-4 From the desert?

    GarryB likes this post

    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


    Posts : 1674
    Points : 1678
    Join date : 2022-01-06
    Location : Z

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Podlodka77 Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:34 pm

    I have decided not to comment on the posts of armchair generals in this section and I have decided not to make any more comments until the end of the conflict in this section for special military operation, except for publishing news from TASS and other Russian (available to me) media. I am moving to the technical side of the forum and the part dedicated to military technology.

    sepheronx, GarryB, gc3762 and Scorpius like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 7798
    Points : 7874
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  flamming_python Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:44 pm

    Serberus wrote:According to some reports It appears Ukronazistan, Turkey and the UN are going ahead with grain exports without the participation of Russia…so how is Russia going to stop it now? Engage civilian vessels or Turkish navy?
    Once you start pussyfooting, is it just a snowball effect.

    The Russians said that they can no longer guarantee the security of these ships. Those were the words they used.

    Now if vessels leave Odessa en route to Turkey then that's their right, but if Russia has a reason to suspect that these aren't civilian vessels then it will accost and board them.

    And no the Turkish navy won't step in


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:47 pm; edited 2 times in total

    sepheronx, GarryB, Big_Gazza, auslander, VARGR198, Hole, Mir and like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 7798
    Points : 7874
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  flamming_python Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:46 pm

    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:Sprinter Monitor
    @SprinterMonitor
    ·
    Ukrainian Armed Forces have selected dozens of pilots for training on Western-style fighters, - Yury Ignat, Speaker of the Air Force Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine


    F-16 A/B?
    F-4 From the desert?

    In other words they're going to rely on NATO pilots flying NATO aircraft. Sucks to be them, as it won't make a difference.

    d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, Hole, gc3762, lancelot, Mir and like this post

    avatar
    ucmvulcan


    Posts : 625
    Points : 627
    Join date : 2022-02-26

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  ucmvulcan Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:00 am

    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:Sprinter Monitor
    @SprinterMonitor
    ·
    Ukrainian Armed Forces have selected dozens of pilots for training on Western-style fighters, - Yury Ignat, Speaker of the Air Force Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine


    F-16 A/B?
    F-4 From the desert?

    8 weeks doesn't make you a pilot. Hell, in the GPW the Lolwaffle had jet fighters and didn't do s*** because their logistics system was gone, they couldn't fuel their planes, couldn't get spare parts, and couldn't maintain them. The twatwaffle is going to have it even worse. Its going to be like Iraqis in 1990. Sure they had Fulcrums and Mirages and what not but not a lot of flying time and they lacked parts and munitions. So the twatwaffle gets f-16s? Great, experienced Russian pilots will shoot them down. Also, US stuff is not anywhere near as durable as Soviet stuff. There's a reason Russian air bases don't need to be swept down and a lot of waking hours at US bases is cleaning up even the smallest debris from the tarmac. Also, supply of parts and munitions is going to be problematic. Its yet another scam

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, VARGR198, Hole, lyle6, Mir and like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 4028
    Points : 4026
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:45 am

    Another articel by "Big Serge"

    source

    Article includes an interesting discussion of the strengths and weaknesses of the Russian BTG, and a look ahead as to how force structures will change once the influx of fresh boots overcomes the current manpower shortages.
     
    The Battalion Tactical Group was a novel attempt to solve a tricky force generation problem, which allowed Russia to keep potent combined arms formations in a ready state. They are high firepower units that proved capable of dishing out horrific punishment - but they are (and always were) temporary derivatives that are simply not designed for a war of attrition or manning a wide front. With mobilization underway, it seems that the time of the BTG has come to a close.

    The rest is a historical review of Egypt vs the Hittites at the Battle of Kadesh.  The ukrops will soon have to resort to using man-drawn chariots made from old tractor chassis, so maybe its relevent?   clown

    GarryB, franco, kvs, LMFS, Hole, lyle6 and Broski like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 11765
    Points : 11892
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  JohninMK Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:50 am

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, auslander, nomadski, LMFS and Hole like this post

    avatar
    mnztr


    Posts : 1818
    Points : 1860
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  mnztr Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:45 am

    Hole wrote:
    All those poor countries receiving grain, the people there will go hungry now.  Rolling Eyes

    I don't think so, Russia has offered 500K tons of food for free to poor nations. Its the Euros that won't get the cheap Ukrainian grain, and I think Euro grain farmers will be quite happy.

    sepheronx, GarryB, Big_Gazza, Erk, nomadski and Broski like this post


    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30 - Page 37 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:41 am