Russian special military operation in Ukraine #30

These things are mainly constructed from plastic if I'm not mistaken with very few metallic parts. I would also expect that some of the drones are semi-submersible, which would make them even more difficult to either spot or track.



Despite the NASAM and the IRIS-T systems the [F]Ukrs seems to have some major difficulties tracking - let alone stopping Geran-2 attack drones

Mir wrote:These things are mainly constructed from plastic if I'm not mistaken with very few metallic parts. I would also expect that some of the drones are semi-submersible, which would make them even more difficult to either spot or track.

The one of Turkish origin they have intercepted, and that was the one we saw lately, is made of glass fiber that is radar transparent.
Most of the parts like engine, shaft etc is hidden underwater.
Water itself is radar reflective, in real terms, radar waves are disrupted by water particles, fog, sprinklers, etc.
That reduces the range and accuracy of the radar by a huge factor.
Some naval radars are specialized for that task and are mostly used as a part of the SAR system.
With the proper algorithms, they can  "mark" the water as the overall radar characteristics are kind of different.
Aside from that, nobody pier a ship with the radar turned on, for multiple reasons.
Ships at the harbor are secured by different means, and there are some of them in the Sevastopol naval bay for sure - some of the drones were reported to be caught by the protective nets.
The system worked, the damaged ship was a minesweeper doing its job - taking out the drones. Russkie have a real serious minesweeping fleet, on a peak of modernization - those Alexandrit are being ordered in some insane number (40?!?).
It will be soon a very interesting part of the arms race, as that type of warfare is not widely spread. Everybody invests heavily in naval drones lately. US-made drones harrasing the Chinese or Iran are being caught in a quite regular manner.

Edit : by the way, the Ukr revealed material with the approach of naval drone towards Admiral Makarov documented one quite interesting thing. Take a look at it. The whole ship is extremely well thermal protected - the only visible heat source are exhausts, and that is not massive either.
I remember a few years ago when the Brits publicized a footage of some 11356 frigate being assisted by Type 23 frigate.
The pic was astonishing - a cold blood hulk of a Russian vessel that is hardly visible in TI spectrum, while the Type 23 was glowing like a fuckin' Xmas tree.
This is what a generation advance is in real lads.

famschopman wrote:
It's floating partially above the water line; let's say ~30cm / ~40cm. It is sticking out of the waves, but I am not an expert in radar technology as to why it doesn't bounce back signals. Maybe it is just below the required radar horizon. Not sure if you can use sonar systems just below the waterline either to detect it.

If you are only relying on optical, in dark circumstance, you're absolutely at risk.

You need radar almost with the sensitivity to detect periscopes. Tough task.

This will boost R&D on these drones too.

Mir wrote:
Despite the NASAM and the IRIS-T systems the [F]Ukrs seems to have some major difficulties tracking - let alone stopping Geran-2 attack drones

Every Geran-2 shot down by NASAM is a win for Russia. 1.2M vs 20k? lol

Some tech specs of the naval drones were revealed.



Those are electric powered, with a jet propeller and batteries on board.
Hull is about 40 cm high.
The bottom of the hull is quite flat, so the educated guess is that the thing won't be useful in bad weather. And "bad" is really flexible, it seems to be really some kind of oversized RC model.
The type was already battled by the Russkies a month ago, Sep 21st - one or two destroyed, and one brought ashore due to comm jamming probably.
Take a look at the nose - it is a kind of contact detonators, so the whole thing is built for asymmetric warfare, remotely controlled penetration of a defense perimeter at naval bases.
Quite clever I must say!

lancelot wrote:Russia needs to pass one of these "suicide boat" things to Iran so they can copy it.

Iran has had some toys of the line for several years
The famous "carrier attack" was carried out by some 50 of the kind back in ... 2018??

flamming_python wrote:No AK-630s you might note though. They can be aimed manually but probably don't have optics optimized for that.

That Ukro USV was blown out of the water by Russian helicopters. Video clearly shows that.

JohninMK wrote:You need radar almost with the sensitivity to detect periscopes. Tough task.

This will boost R&D on these drones too.

Add a few Grachenoks to the defence of the harbor. Some blimp (aerostat) with good optics could help, too.

Hole wrote:

JohninMK wrote:You need radar almost with the sensitivity to detect periscopes. Tough task.

This will boost R&D on these drones too.

Add a few Grachenoks to the defence of the harbor. Some blimp (aerostat) with good optics could help, too.

Actually they use an old fashion anti-submarine net along with Grachenoks and Raptors.

Confirmation from Sevastopol residents:

Both Grigorovich class frigates are in Sevastopol harbor. No visible damage, masts and everything are intact.

The Ivan Gobulets is also at harbor. She made it there on her own power. The way it is parked, they can see the bow only and there is no damage there. Whtever "minor" damage reported is probably at the stern.

By the way Ivan Gobulets was commissioned in the Soviet Navy in 1973. She is 49 years old.

All those poor countries receiving grain, the people there will go hungry now. 

Somehow related to the conflict. 

Krepost wrote:By the way Ivan Gobulets was commissioned in the Soviet Navy in 1973. She is 49 years old.

Compared to the B-52´s and KC-135´s of the USAF she is a young girl. 

famschopman wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Grain ships were use to f*ck Russia over? No way!!!

Who could have seen THIS coming? (Spoiler: everyone and their grandma)

But Russians gotta pussyfoot

Now that this event happened the recklessness of US/UK/Ukraine and all involved covert organizations has been exposed. China, India, Iran, Turkey, Saudis' all have been informed and can't do anything than side with Russia's cancellation of the agreement because it is clear who is at fault here. These transports were a neutral zone in order to avoid food shortages. Well ... guess who fucked up.

According to some reports It appears Ukronazistan, Turkey and the UN are going ahead with grain exports without the participation of Russia…so how is Russia going to stop it now? Engage civilian vessels or Turkish navy?
Once you start pussyfooting, is it just a snowball effect.

Serberus wrote:

famschopman wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Grain ships were use to f*ck Russia over? No way!!!

Who could have seen THIS coming? (Spoiler: everyone and their grandma)

But Russians gotta pussyfoot

Now that this event happened the recklessness of US/UK/Ukraine and all involved covert organizations has been exposed. China, India, Iran, Turkey, Saudis' all have been informed and can't do anything than side with Russia's cancellation of the agreement because it is clear who is at fault here. These transports were a neutral zone in order to avoid food shortages. Well ... guess who fucked up.

According to some reports It appears Ukronazistan, Turkey and the UN are going ahead with grain exports without the participation of Russia…so how is Russia going to stop it now? Engage civilian vessels or Turkish navy?
Once you start pussyfooting, is it just a snowball effect.

I will be revisiting this post as soon as the Soil in Ukraine hardens enough to allow for a winter offensive (approximately a fortnight).

Sprinter Monitor
@SprinterMonitor
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Ukrainian Armed Forces have selected dozens of pilots for training on Western-style fighters, - Yury Ignat, Speaker of the Air Force Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine


F-16 A/B?
F-4 From the desert?

I have decided not to comment on the posts of armchair generals in this section and I have decided not to make any more comments until the end of the conflict in this section for special military operation, except for publishing news from TASS and other Russian (available to me) media. I am moving to the technical side of the forum and the part dedicated to military technology.

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:Sprinter Monitor
@SprinterMonitor
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Ukrainian Armed Forces have selected dozens of pilots for training on Western-style fighters, - Yury Ignat, Speaker of the Air Force Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

https://twitter.com/i/status/1586844416181944320

F-16 A/B?
F-4 From the desert?

8 weeks doesn't make you a pilot. Hell, in the GPW the Lolwaffle had jet fighters and didn't do s*** because their logistics system was gone, they couldn't fuel their planes, couldn't get spare parts, and couldn't maintain them. The twatwaffle is going to have it even worse. Its going to be like Iraqis in 1990. Sure they had Fulcrums and Mirages and what not but not a lot of flying time and they lacked parts and munitions. So the twatwaffle gets f-16s? Great, experienced Russian pilots will shoot them down. Also, US stuff is not anywhere near as durable as Soviet stuff. There's a reason Russian air bases don't need to be swept down and a lot of waking hours at US bases is cleaning up even the smallest debris from the tarmac. Also, supply of parts and munitions is going to be problematic. Its yet another scam

Another articel by "Big Serge"

source

Article includes an interesting discussion of the strengths and weaknesses of the Russian BTG, and a look ahead as to how force structures will change once the influx of fresh boots overcomes the current manpower shortages.
 

The Battalion Tactical Group was a novel attempt to solve a tricky force generation problem, which allowed Russia to keep potent combined arms formations in a ready state. They are high firepower units that proved capable of dishing out horrific punishment - but they are (and always were) temporary derivatives that are simply not designed for a war of attrition or manning a wide front. With mobilization underway, it seems that the time of the BTG has come to a close.

The rest is a historical review of Egypt vs the Hittites at the Battle of Kadesh.  The ukrops will soon have to resort to using man-drawn chariots made from old tractor chassis, so maybe its relevent?  

Hole wrote:
All those poor countries receiving grain, the people there will go hungry now. 

I don't think so, Russia has offered 500K tons of food for free to poor nations. Its the Euros that won't get the cheap Ukrainian grain, and I think Euro grain farmers will be quite happy.