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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #5

    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic


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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #5 - Page 9 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #5

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed May 24, 2023 3:18 pm

    Well, after the news from the other day it was to be expected.
    I am curious to know who will be now buying Let L410, if they lose all of the russian world (main customer base).

    Furthermore now Africa, another potential market, is it mainly in Russian and Chinese hands.

    And there are already other western alternatives, like the Dornier 228 or the Twin otter, plus also Brazilian planes (embraer 110 plus a new one coming next year) and the polish copy/ modernisation of the An-28.

    Basically there is market for a new russian model, but Czech producers will have to face competition in their possible markets from Germany/India (Do-228 NG), Canada (twin otter), Poland (M-28) and Brasil/ Portugal...
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed May 24, 2023 3:45 pm

    The sooner they can get Russian planes the better... and they will likely also be cheaper to buy too.

    I am curious to know who will be now buying Let L410, if they lose all of the russian world (main customer base).

    It is like Ukraine stopping selling engines to the Russian Navy... destroying their custom with their primary customer, but their primary customer wont suddenly decide they don't need ships any more, they will spend money and develop their own alternative and make them in their own new factories on new tools and equipment using new technology and probably end up with better products that they will then offer to sell to the rest of the world in competition with your old crap.

    The Russians are so lucky that the west has such an inflated view of their own importance.

    When they limited or stopped importing Russian energy they thought Russia would collapse and not sell it to anyone else... it didn't occur to them that anyone else might buy Russian energy with it being so cheap and reliable, and they don't understand that Russia could make everything it needs for itself if it wanted to but sometimes it is easier to buy from others.

    The west made being independent of the west a necessity for Russia, but the west still needs Russia for a few things... note no real sanctions on Rosatom... which Hungary and France and the US kinda rely on quite a bit.

    And this is what I mean about this conflict in Ukraine continuing... because when it ends, no matter how it ends, the Czechs are going to resume supply of spare parts and support and hope that Russia goes back to using their aircraft... and I honestly don't see that happening.

    After you try to murder them by supporting nazis on their border, what sort of trade relationships can continue after that?

    You put yourself at the bottom of the list... business is business but they have now spent money on alternatives to sanctions items so they are going to follow through on that and replace your overpriced stuff and make their own.

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    lancelot
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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #5 - Page 9 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #5

    Post  lancelot Wed May 24, 2023 4:23 pm

    Probably in 2 years Russia will start producing several aircraft including the Superjet-NEW and the MC-21. The Il-114 is also in an advanced state of development. LMS-901 is basically waiting for a Russian engine.

    Nearer the end of the decade it is also highly likely that the Chinese will have a highly developed civil aviation industry which will be able to export products with its own IP. As we speak the Chinese are testing their equivalent of the PD-14 engine, the CJ-1000A, on a test platform.
    Russian Civil Aviation: News #5 - Page 9 Image52

    Much like the case with Russia's PD-14, the CJ-1000A is supposed to be the first of a family of engines. They are also working on equivalents of PD-8 (CJ-500), PD-35 (CJ-2000).

    The Chinese will not be relying on Western component suppliers for civil aviation forever.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed May 24, 2023 5:13 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Well, after the news from the other day it was to be expected.
    I am curious to know who will be now buying Let L410, if they lose all of the russian world (main customer base).

    Furthermore now Africa, another potential market, is it mainly in Russian and Chinese hands.

    And there are already other western alternatives, like the Dornier 228 or the Twin otter, plus also Brazilian planes (embraer 110 plus a new one coming next year) and the polish copy/ modernisation of the An-28.

    Basically there is market for a new russian model, but Czech producers will have to face competition in their possible markets from Germany/India (Do-228 NG), Canada (twin otter), Poland (M-28) and Brasil/ Portugal...

    The Czech economy is subsidised by the EU anyway. They pay the bills, and they call the tunes. A factory going out of business here or there is chump change.

    I believe there's a monument to the sex worker for the Western sex-tourist in Prague.
    Which just says it all really. And that's pretty much the policy of the country itself, sell your UN vote and foreign policy and Soviet-era stocks of weapons and your national dignity for money from Europe.
    The Ukraine wanted the same deal, only in addition to all that they also had to Nazify and militarize their society and build up for a new blitzkrieg against the Donbass and then the Crimea, and that's where the problem occured.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic


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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed May 24, 2023 5:55 pm

    lancelot wrote:
    Much like the case with Russia's PD-14, the CJ-1000A is supposed to be the first of a family of engines. They are also working on equivalents of PD-8 (CJ-500), PD-35 (CJ-2000).

    The Chinese will not be relying on Western component suppliers for civil aviation forever.

    Good for China. I am not that familiar with those engines, do you know how do they compare with western and russian engines?

    flamming_python wrote:
    The Czech economy is subsidised by the EU anyway. They pay the bills, and they call the tunes. A factory going out of business here or there is chump change.

    I believe there's a monument to the sex worker for the Western sex-tourist in Prague.
    Which just says it all really. And that's pretty much the policy of the country itself, sell your UN vote and foreign policy and Soviet-era stocks of weapons and your national dignity for money from Europe.
    The Ukraine wanted the same deal, only in addition to all that they also had to Nazify and militarize their society and build up for a new blitzkrieg against the Donbass and then the Crimea, and that's where the problem occured.
    My reply is off topic but I do not know where to post it.
    Well, this is a thing that will not last for long. The UN and its voting policy, which gives small puppet nations the same weight as India or Brazil does not make sense.

    Furthermore no voting right should be given to puppet nations.

    Anyway, the free money given to Poland, Czech Republic and balcan states is going to come to an end soon. After that I am curious how their economy and industries will survive. Now they are still able to exploit part of the legacy given from Soviet investment (even if that damaged Russia itself). I doubt someone will ever do the same again.

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Thu May 25, 2023 12:21 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Good for China. I am not that familiar with those engines, do you know how do they compare with western and russian engines?
    Those Chinese engines are not in service yet. So any performance claims would be speculative. They claim they want the CJ-1000A to be performance competitive with the French/US CFM LEAP they already use in the C919.

    The Chinese recently put the WS-20 into service in their Y-20 military transport. This is an engine which was designed to have similar performance to the older generation French/US CFM56 engine.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu May 25, 2023 6:02 pm

    https://aviation21.ru/v-tomskoj-oblasti-vozobnovyat-perevozki-v-trudnodostupnye-rajony-na-samolyotax-tvs-2ms/

    Transportation to hard-to-reach areas on TVS-2MS aircraft will resume in the Tomsk Region
    05/24/2023
    Department of Transport of the Tomsk Region

    The Tomsk aircraft building company Sibaerocraft has ordered a batch of TVS-2MS aircraft worth 145 million rubles. each with the possibility of expanding the contract for the resumption of intra-regional transportation in the Tomsk region. Rusaviaprom LLC is the executor of the contract, and Siberian Light Aviation may become the operator. This was reported by Interfax with reference to the director of Sibaerocraft LLC Ruslan Moiseev.

    Earlier, in April, the Department of Transport, Road Activities and Communications of the Tomsk Region announced its intention to restore air travel to remote areas of the region from June 1 until the end of 2023. We are talking about flights from Tomsk to the city of Kedrovy, as well as the villages of Kargasok and Novy Vasyugan in the Kargasoksky district. Now flights to these settlements are not performed, there is also no bus service. Kedrovy and Novy Vasyugan are located in a remote area among the Vasyugan swamps, the only way to get to them is by winter roads or all-terrain vehicles.

    “Our company has ordered four TVS-2MS aircraft, one aircraft is already in Tomsk, and you saw it today. It was assembled in Novosibirsk, but flight tests will be held at our site in Beryozkino. These aircraft will revive regional aviation in the Tomsk region and in the West Siberian region,” Ruslan Moiseev told reporters.

    The planes were produced by the Novosibirsk company Rusaviaprom. According to Aleksey Kryukov, General Director of the company, the first aircraft is being prepared for testing, in the future the contract may be expanded to meet the needs of the region to provide the entire air network up to 10-12 aircraft. He clarified that this is not the whole party, there will be an expansion.

    “The approximate need to close the entire route network of Kolpashevo, Novy Vasyugan, Kedrovy, Kargasok is about 10-12 aircraft. At the moment, the first aircraft is being prepared for testing. We hope that by the end of June it will receive a certificate of airworthiness,” Kryukov said, adding that the first four aircraft will be delivered by November, subsequent aircraft will be produced in the amount of 3-4 per year, depending on the needs of the customer.

    At the same time, different airlines are considered as an operator, in particular, a new company with regional participation can be created, or Siberian Light Aviation, which previously flew in the region, can fly aircraft.

    For the operation of aircraft, an operator is needed - an airline that will use these aircraft. We are considering attracting previously flying companies or creating a commercial operator, or following the example of Magadan, where a local airline has been created for such aircraft with the participation of the Ministry of Transport, which covers the region's need for transportation,” Alexey Kryukov explained.

    According to him, the cost of one aircraft is 145 million rubles. Flight range - 1 thousand km, passenger capacity - 12 people.

    In turn, Andrey Bogdanov, co-owner of the Siberian Light Aviation airline and adviser to the CEO, told reporters that the company is working on resuming flights within the region on TVS-2MS.

    “We are discussing the issue with the administration of the Tomsk region on the start of operation of TVS-2MS aircraft, it will be Aeroservice LLC, a subsidiary of the SiLA airline. There are a number of formalities for this aircraft to be able to fly on civil airlines. We are negotiating with the Department of Transport. It takes some time to register the aircraft, to obtain a certificate of certification, airworthiness. We are planning to resume the destinations where "SiLA" flew, as well as to Parabel. The sites are maintained in working condition, you can start,” Bogdanov said.

    In addition, Ruslan Moiseev said that Sibaerocraft plans to develop an aviation site in the village of Beryozkino near Tomsk. In particular, next year it is planned to concrete a 900-meter unpaved runway, and in the future it will be extended to 1,200 meters. Now the site is equipped with lighting equipment - it can receive flights around the clock. He did not name the exact amount of investment in the modernization of the site, noting that "we are talking about hundreds of millions of rubles."

    He also said that the transfer of the production of TVS-2MS aircraft from the Novosibirsk site of Rusaviaprom to Tomsk or its expansion is being discussed. “Now there are meetings and discussions with the Rusaviaprom plant and the authorities about the possible transfer of this enterprise or its expansion to the territory of the Tomsk region. But so far no decisions have been made, as conditions must be created for Rusaviaprom to start assembling TVS-2MS aircraft in the Tomsk Region and develop our aviation cluster. We look forward to subsequent meetings with the governor with the adoption of decisions and a road map,” Moiseev added.

    The SibNIA TVS-2MS Is a  Turboprop conversion of An-2 by Siberian Aeronautical Research Institute (SibNIA) using 820 kilowatts (1,100 shp) Honeywell TPE331-12UHR engine. First flown 5 September 2011.

    It is a metal plane, the one with composite wings (with no bracing struts or wires) and tail is instead the SibNIA TVS-2-DT, which first flight was the 10 June 2015.

    Finally, the SibNIA TVS-2-DTS – TVS-2-DT fitted with new all-composite fuselage


    As I posted earlier, there is probably market for both the Baikal and this An-2 upgrade under another name.

    The main problem is that it uses an American Honeywell TPE331-12UHR engine (with 1,100 shp), since the (1200 hp) Turboprop version of the VK-1600 is not ready yet.

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