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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #28

    Erk
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    Post  Erk Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:39 am

    PhSt wrote:

    NATzO can cause as much trouble, but its a double edge sword; Russia can escalate the situation by causing trouble to the NATzO side. Then it will be up to NATzO if they wish to proceed to nuclear annihilation. Once all of Ukraine has been liberated and incorporated to the new Russia, Article 5 of NATzO needs to be exposed as what it truly is, a big Fraud. Russia can then take its rightful territory from the Baltics and Finnish occupiers and then proceed to restore its borders from that of the Soviet and Russian empire.

    I changed the points in my last post, you might want to go over it again.

    I do see some merit in occupying all of Ukraine, in that Russia will fully control the border to Poland, so no more HMARS smuggling to reactor shelling terrorists.
    The US will need to find another proxy for war.

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:53 am

    flamming_python wrote:...- then what then? The Washington-appointed rulers will simply continue the war and squeeze out every last resource that's left on Ukrainian territory, and every last able body to attempt to inflict further casualties on Russia. And whatever doesn't come under Moscow's control will just be this radical-nationalist ruled khanate with which it will be impossible to agree on terms.

    That's what drones are for

    Gaza Strip doesn't have to be only in Gaza

    Best buffer is one people are horrified of passing through

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:57 am

    America at a Crossroads

    On Wednesday, October 5, Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev said that all of NATO is now fighting against Russia, noting that the West is trying to blackmail with the use of weapons of mass destruction. On the same day, the Russian Foreign Ministry issued a statement. Sergey Lavrov's office reminded that the increase in Western arms supplies to Ukraine increases the risk of a direct clash between Russia and the Alliance. Similar statements have been made repeatedly in the last week from the Kremlin.
    However, Russian politicians, officials and deputies have talked about the possibility of a direct clash with NATO before, but I do not recall that during the entire period of the special operation, statements warning the West against making an irreparable mistake went so thickly and were made immediately (on one day) on behalf of several key departments.

    It is clear that tensions between Russia and the West continue to grow despite the fact that the United States has conducted several probes about possible preconditions for the start of peace talks.
    The fact is that only" politicians " from the Internet, who mostly see the world in black and white, believe that the state apparatus can only work in one direction: either to seek peace, or to wage war and increase pressure. As a rule, these processes run in parallel. Military actions serve only as one of the arguments (and not always the main one) for determining the initial positions of the parties at the negotiating table. At the same time, diplomatic and intelligence agencies, international intermediaries, and sometimes specially authorized individuals (journalists, businessmen, lawyers) are probing enemy positions on behalf of the parties.
    Preparation for negotiations reaches the official level at the moment when the parties, with the help of preliminary probing, are convinced that their request positions have come close enough to transfer the contact to the public plane. If one of the parties betrays confidence and tries to shift the negotiating position in a way that is convenient for itself for image purposes, disavowing the results of preliminary non-public contacts, negotiations are immediately interrupted and it becomes much more difficult to resume them. Therefore, they prefer not to make drastic steps — they will have to negotiate sooner or later anyway.
    If (and most often it happens) negotiations are held against the backdrop of ongoing hostilities, then the results of the latter directly affect both the course of negotiations and the positions of the parties.
    For example, if you have April 1943 of the year, you have just surrendered Kharkov, the Battle of Kursk is ahead, the enemy is strong and you are not sure that you can withstand its blow, if you understand that you will not lose the war, but it is not known whether you will have the strength to win it, then your requirements for peace conditions will be much more more modest than if it's already April 1945, and you're standing outside Berlin and preparing to storm it.
    And it's not just that over the past time you have managed to agree with your allies that you will jointly insist on unconditional surrender. And not so much because you know perfectly well that the allies tried to make a separate peace behind your back. The fact is that the peace concluded in 1943 would have left millions of your not superfluous citizens alive, and by 1945 they were already in the ground anyway, which means that the point of concessions was gone. On the contrary, their ruined lives require compensation at least in the form of an absolute victory.
    From this we draw a simple conclusion: the longer the war goes on and the closer one of the parties is to victory, the worse the conditions of peace (even a preliminary one) will be for the losing side. Increased pressure gives the party applying it hope to dramatically improve its position at the table of future negotiations, but this is only if it succeeds. In the event of failure, the position of the risker will deteriorate sharply.

    When the Americans throw in the bait regarding the unconditional preservation of Crimea for Russia and the holding of new referendums in the four newly annexed regions (and Musk's initiative is not only and not so much personal PR, but open, and therefore requires an open response, probing the Russian position) they do not mean that Kherson will return to Ukraine, they agree, after haggling, even Zaporozhye (the regional center controlled by the Armed Forces of Ukraine) to give up without a fight. And they are ready to refuse the demand for new referendums. At one time, they demanded a repeat of the Crimean referendum under international control, and now they are ready to recognize Crimea as Russian without any conditions, if an agreement is reached on issues of principle for them.
    They consider it fundamental to preserve the current Russophobic regime in Ukraine, even with the loss of territories. Why is this so important to them?
    1. They create a myth about Ukraine, which defended its independence in a hard, bloody struggle with Russia. A country that at the beginning of the conflict had a population four times smaller than in Russia, and an army that is basically unable to resist the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, is not ashamed to get off with the loss of four regions after a year of resistance.
    2.On the basis of the blood shed "for independence", the Americans are rapidly completing the formation of a new anti-Russian, Russophobic Ukrainian nation out of Russians living in the former southern provinces of the empire, seeking revenge and the return of lost lands. At any moment, Ukraine will again be ready to put a million-strong army against Russia, and the task of the West will only be to arm and train this army.
    3. Thus, an anti-Russian foothold remains completely under the control of the United States on the Russian border, from which Washington can launch aggression against Russia at any time convenient for it, while formally remaining on the sidelines.
    Therefore, Russia, while not putting forward new territorial demands to the Kiev regime (outside the already annexed regions), insistently demands the denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine, as well as the return of Kiev to a policy of permanent neutrality. To fulfill this requirement, moreover, with guarantees that what is written in the agreement will be implemented in reality, means officially transferring Ukraine under the Russian protectorate. Only if the West refuses to interfere in any way in Russian-Ukrainian relations will neutrality be guaranteed, and denazification and demilitarization will be carried out. Ukrainians will not denazify themselves, they will need to be helped. But if the West recognizes the Nazi nature of the Ukrainian regime and refuses all support for it, this will be much easier to do.
    The United States does not yet feel sufficiently defeated in Ukraine to accept these Russian conditions. Therefore, Russia is increasing political and psychological pressure on the West, promising to accept new territories that will be liberated in the future. The loss of another four or five regions makes maintaining Ukraine as an anti-Russian springboard meaningless for the West. Such a stump of a state simply won't have the resources to pose a serious threat to Russia. In addition, the Eastern European states bordering Ukraine in the West may wake up with a burning desire not to be late for the division (otherwise Russia will take everything).
    Such a development will break the beautiful legend of the bloody struggle for independence with Moscow, giving the most Ukrainized regions under the control of Poland, which has a rich experience of assimilation of Ukrainians.
    The US is trying to push back. They have two arguments:
    1. The West will increase the supply of weapons to Ukraine and expand their range so much as to paralyze the upcoming Russian offensive, create a positional impasse in Ukraine and force Russia to give up some of its demands.
    2. The United States and some of its allies will organize a nuclear provocation in Ukraine or in the Black Sea, which they will accuse the Russian Federation of, in order to consolidate the West and increase aid to Ukraine, as well as possible entry into the war on its side of Poland and the Baltic States. The front will increase dramatically, and Russia (which may have to defend not only the Kaliningrad region, but also Belarus) will again face the problem of the density of combat formations. The ability to solve this problem through a new wave of mobilization has limitations, both from the point of view of the economy and from the point of view of the army's ability to accept, clothe and train a new contingent, especially if the second wave goes immediately after the first, leaving no time for the rear services to adapt.

    As you can see, the Russian leadership responds to the United States in two ways at once. In both cases, we point out that we have a strategic option that gives us a way out of the impasse — an official transition to a military confrontation with NATO. The United States does not want to take part in the conflict itself, preferring to receive bonuses without seriously risking anything. Therefore, this option does not suit them. They either have to put up with it urgently, allowing Russia to fully win back the advantage they gained through the next stage of raising rates (that is, on today's Russian terms, and possibly even worse), or leave the Eastern European members of the bloc without NATO's help, which will inevitably lead them to defeat in a direct conflict with Russia, or go on unwinding the nuclear crisis, risking the situation getting out of control.
    The United States is at a crossroads. On the one hand, they want to try Russia for strength. It is too tempting to try to thwart the Russian offensive and still push through the peace talks to preserve the pro-American, Nazi, Russophobic regime in Ukraine, even if it has lost its southern territories.
    On the other hand, they have already tried many times, and each time Russia turned out to be much stronger than they expected. If this time it turns out the same, the political, economic and image losses may be much greater than the Americans expected.

    https://ukraina.ru/20221006/1039426306.html

    Another masterclass IMHO, with all the strategic elements needed for an accurate analysis of the current situation and its potential evolution, including the enlargement of the front and the nuclear provocations we are hearing about. Maybe Russia sees it fit now to deliver a much stronger blow to 404 in order to ensure their quick defeat before the West sets on fire Belarus (last statements from Lukashenko are indeed stern) and Kaliningrad via Poland and the Balts. On the one hand this explains the formation of a unified command with Belarus, but it would not surprise me at this time if the real mobilization in Russia were way bigger than officially stated, since they need to be ready both to defeat the nazis in pukraine but also cope with potentially dangerous attacks to a small, vulnerable area in Kaliningrad, dangerous attacks to the key Russian cities from the Balts and the strongly enlarged front that would need to be defended against Poland, both in Belarus and in 404. Only the volunteers that we are seeing going to the front should already come close or be even higher than those 300k.

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    zorobabel
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    Post  zorobabel Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:07 am

    Well, I got a lot of crap for saying so, but this is why I think there should have been much larger investments in drone warfare early on. Look at what 500 gram grenades can do in the trenches with cheap drones. Good job on Sparta for figuring it out. Hopefully each company of the mobilized will have at least one trained drone user.

    https://t.me/Slavyangrad/13386

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:53 am

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    Erk
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    Post  Erk Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:36 am

    zorobabel wrote:Well, I got a lot of crap for saying so, but this is why I think there should have been much larger investments in drone warfare early on. Look at what 500 gram grenades can do in the trenches with cheap drones. Good job on Sparta for figuring it out. Hopefully each company of the mobilized will have at least one trained drone user.

    https://t.me/Slavyangrad/13386

    Sparta drone attacks, in youtube format

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:46 am

    Erk wrote:
    Backman wrote:^ i thought they would keep taking territory as they headed west, and then do the federal republic of Ukraine idea.  Annex the territory into the FRU. Make a govt for it. They could take it up to central Ukraine. See how it works.

    I see little point in taking territory that doesn't have a clear majority of ethnic Russians.

    Take the territory first, then encourage the rats to leave if they so desire. Fck the US/EU and whatever they think. They had no probs with the Croats expelling the Serbs of Krajina, or the KLA narco-terror gang expelling Serbs from Kosovo. Who are they to whine if the banderats chose to leave after the regions are liberated?

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:20 am

    Regular wrote:
    Erk wrote:

    I see little point in taking territory that doesn't have a clear majority of ethnic Russians.

    Not only that, but it would cost a fortune to restore and integrate that territory.

    I bet there are other plans for Ukraine and it won’t be nice for Ukrainians. 90s will look like a paradise.

    So where the ethnic Russians end, the Nato missiles batteries begin ? Nah. There needs to be a 300 km buffer. It would take time and some rough years but they will eventually straighten out.
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    Post  mnztr Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:30 am

    Hmm apparently the Ukrainians captured a T90M. Is this a pretty recent mod? Bad news?

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:34 am

    Sujoy wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    Sujoy wrote:For today's strike is Russia using Kh-31 exclusively or are they using other cruise, ballistic missiles as well?

    OMG Sujoy sometimes you can say the weirdest things! What a Face
    You have been able to ID this missile? Unbelievable

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t8849p375-russian-special-military-operation-in-ukraine-28#401502

    Kaliber Wink

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:35 am

    LMFS wrote:America at a Crossroads

    Kaliningrad, Belarus.

    Kaliningrad is Russian territory. If Nato attacks that or gets someone to attack it, Russia will have no choice but go nuclear. It would all be very different if this was the pre nuclear era. But it isn't.

    Belarus is maybe a little greyer. Who is going to attack Belarus ? Ukraine ?

    These are scare tactics by the US and they are insane.

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    Erk
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    Post  Erk Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:43 am

    Backman wrote:

    Kaliningrad is Russian territory. If Nato attacks that or gets someone to attack it, Russia will have no choice but go nuclear. ...

    Wrong.
    Russia always have a choice not to go nuclear.

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:47 am

    Good morning, Vietnam.
    Multiple incomings in Zaporozhe, Vinnica, Ochakov.
    At least two 136s strikes Ladyzhynska TPP.
    Still don't expect much more pictures, as both electricity and the Internet is shattered across the entire 404.
    I suppose that we will have today a multiple cases of yesterdays materials leaked as fresh, so double check.

    Edit 1 : Odessa and Kiev joined the party.


    Last edited by ALAMO on Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:09 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Backman Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:49 am

    Erk wrote:
    Backman wrote:

    Kaliningrad is Russian territory. If Nato attacks that or gets someone to attack it, Russia will have no choice but go nuclear. ...

    Wrong.
    Russia always have a choice not to go nuclear.

    Russia would lose a conventional attack on Kaliningrad by Nato.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:52 am

    mnztr wrote:Hmm apparently the Ukrainians captured a T90M. Is this a pretty recent mod? Bad news?


    Even if they are, what will change that ? It's a tank, not a space shuttle.
    I will try to briefly explain to you all the cynicism of the USA and its followers in the West. In the USA, they often like to say that Russia stole this or that American project, although the bottom line is that it is the USA that is stealing.
    In the USA, they have been "evaluating" MiG-29 and Su-27 aircraft, as well as many other Soviet equipment, for decades. And what has changed ? I must write that the MiG-29 aircraft was only a few years in the armament of the USSR and the countries of the former Warsaw Pact, so that the USA "got hold" of those aircraft already at the end of the eighties of the last century? And I ask you again, what has changed ?
    Even if the T-14, Su-57 or 2S35 "Koalitsiya" come into their possession, nothing will change. What the USA "troubles" with Russia are missile silos in RVSN bases, strategic submarines and long-range cruise missiles, as well as completely new hypersonic missiles such as H47M2 "Kinzhal" and 3M22 "Zirkon". And US will never come into possession of those weapons.
    Airplanes and tanks are in a minor league compared to those weapon systems.



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    Erk
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    Post  Erk Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:53 am

    Backman wrote:
    Erk wrote:
    Backman wrote:

    Kaliningrad is Russian territory. If Nato attacks that or gets someone to attack it, Russia will have no choice but go nuclear. ...

    Wrong.
    Russia always have a choice not to go nuclear.

    Russia would lose a conventional attack on Kaliningrad by Nato.

    Bold claim, prove it.
    Where is your supportive data to back up this speculation?


    Kaliningrad is smallest region in Russia with area of 15,100 km² and population of 941,873 people serves as one of the most important regions in Russia as its more far west region and separated from rest of country. According to 2014 data the region holds 225,000 military personnel, the number that seems to have increased last two years. Kaliningrad is both advantage and danger for Russian military and political interests in the Baltic region and a challenge for NATO to counter the possible treats coming from Russian military stationed there.
    https://www.numbers-stations.com/articles/russian-military-in-kaliningrad/


    Last edited by Erk on Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:14 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Post  crod Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:54 am

    I see it’s the new general’s birthday today…Christ, most of us are happy with blowing out candles on a cake; not this chap, indeed not - blowing out a country’s electricity network will only suffice it would appear…god it’ll be hard for his commanders to top that next year.

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    Post  mnztr Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:56 am

    Mir wrote:
    Kaliber Wink

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #28 - Page 23 Fess8i10

    this one kinda missed really, just made a hole in the dirt. Not an easy target to hit

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:01 am

    It didn't.
    It was not a bridge targeted.
    Do you even read what is being provided here?
    Not to mention to make some own research or something?

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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:02 am

    Erk wrote:
    Backman wrote:
    Erk wrote:
    Backman wrote:

    Kaliningrad is Russian territory. If Nato attacks that or gets someone to attack it, Russia will have no choice but go nuclear. ...

    Wrong.
    Russia always have a choice not to go nuclear.

    Russia would lose a conventional attack on Kaliningrad by Nato.

    Bold claim, prove it.
    Where is your supportive data to back up this speculation?

    Relatively small population..
    Such a development is not impossible, but almost a million people live in the Kaliningrad region, so I strongly doubt that Russia would calmly watch their enslavement.
    However, then the enslavement of the Baltic Banana States would CERTAINLY follow (at least parts of Lithuania), and a Russian strike from the direction of Lithuania and Belarus would follow, even without the use of nuclear weapons.


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    Post  Backman Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:23 am

    The Iranian drones are painted in Russian colors and given a Russian name. And there is nothing official on paper about them being an imported weapon. I think it counts as a Russian weapon so it can get its own thread in the air force section. dunno

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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:24 am

    October 11, 08:05
    Military operation in Ukraine

    Media: Ukroshitstan after explosions in the country asks the United States for tactical ballistic missiles


    The capital of evil; WASHINGTON, October 11th. /TASS/. Nazi shithole Kiev is asking the US to supply new types of weapons, including Atacms tactical ballistic missiles and fourth-generation F-15 and F-16 combat fighters. This was reported on Monday by Foreign Policy magazine, which read a letter from Verkhovna Rada Chairman Ruslan Stefanchuk sent to the US Congress after the explosions at Ukroshitstan infrastructure facilities.

    It follows from the document that Kiev shithole is asking the administration of US President Joe Biden to "give up restraint" and supply Atacms missiles capable of hitting objects at a distance of 200 miles (322 km).
    According to Stefanchuk, the United States should also, as a matter of priority, supply NASAMS anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) to Ukroshitstan. In addition, Kiev shithole requested from Washington unmanned aerial vehicles MQ-1C Gray Eagle and combat fighters F-15 and F-16.

    US President Joe Biden, in a telephone conversation with his Ukroshitstan counterpart blue-yellow Nazi cocksucking dildo loving Volodymyr Zelensky on Monday, assured that Washington intends to continue providing military assistance to shithole Kiev, including the supply of "modern air defense systems."
    Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Monday at an operational meeting with members of the Security Council that a massive strike was launched on energy, military command and communications facilities in Ukroshitstan. He also warned Kiev shithole that if the Ukroshitstan authorities try to continue to carry out terrorist attacks on Russian territory, the responses will be harsh. Putin called the October 8 explosion on the Crimean bridge a terrorist attack, behind which the Ukroshitstan special services stand.



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    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:31 am

    Podlodka77 wrote:
    Relatively small population..
    Such a development is not impossible, but almost a million people live in the Kaliningrad region, so I strongly doubt that Russia would calmly watch their enslavement.
    However, then the enslavement of the Baltic Banana States would CERTAINLY follow (at least parts of Lithuania), and a Russian strike from the direction of Lithuania and Belarus would follow, even without the use of nuclear weapons.

    Yup, but the region is quite impressively militarised.
    I was there more than 20 years ago, and it was literally full of military assets.
    Sure that it was just a momentum peak, as the enclave worked as a transportation hub for the army that withdrew from Germany and Poland in the early 90s. Still the number of armed forces units there was huge.

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    Podlodka77
    Podlodka77


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #28 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #28

    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:32 am

    * 🇷🇺🇺🇦 Air alert in every region of Ukraine

    * 🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡Missiles hit the infrastructure facilities of the Odessa region, air defense did not help

    * 🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡Ukrainian media report explosions in Vinnitsa

    *🇷🇺🇺🇦 Ternopol region is preparing to receive gifts

    *🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡Missiles hit objects in Odessa, Vinnitsa, Zaporozhye, Ochakov, Nikolaev,

    * 🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡Krivoy Rog announces arrival to the right place

    *🇰🇿🇺🇦❗The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Kazakhstan is considering the issue of the complete evacuation of employees of the embassy of the republic in Ukraine, said the official representative of the Foreign Ministry of Kazakhstan, Aibek

    *🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡It is reported that a missile flew over the Zhytomyr Region

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    ALAMO


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #28 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #28

    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:36 am

    Have you noticed one interesting detail?
    It is a really shock&awe for the "western partners".
    Each and any time, when Russkie presents a part of real military might they can unleash if needed - everybody STFU and just watches the show.
    A whole propaganda spin is gone.
    NAFO incels are gone.
    Funny memes are gone.
    "Oh oh oh you bab bad Russkie, please do not do so much damage to our assets as it hurts!"

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #28 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #28

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