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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #25

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:17 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    franco wrote:The State Duma will consider the possibility of sending mobilized ex-fighters of OMON and SOBR to units of the National Guard

    Mobilized reserve servicemen with experience in the OMON or SOBR will be able to continue serving in the units of the Russian Guard, and not the Armed Forces, if they wish. The corresponding bill will be considered by the State Duma.

    According to the head of the State Duma Committee on Information Policy Alexander Khinshtein, the Russian Guard applied with a corresponding initiative, proposing to consider the possibility of service in the ranks of the department of SOBR and OMON servicemen mobilized from the reserve. In addition, it is proposed to secure for them the right to conclude short-term contracts not only for the military, but also for law enforcement service in the National Guard. However, this will not be mandatory, ex-siloviki can choose to serve in the army if they wish.

    Together with colleagues from the Rogsvardia and other departments, we started developing initiatives even earlier that will allow us to send military personnel mobilized from the reserve with experience in the police or police special forces, as well as in the internal troops, for further service in the Russian Guard" Hinstein said.

    Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense clarified that the autumn call for urgent military service has nothing to do with the ongoing mobilization, it will be carried out separately in a planned manner. All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone. At the same time, all conscripts whose term of service has expired will be dismissed and sent to their places of residence.

    It is planned to call up 120,000 conscripts for the autumn conscription, which fully satisfies the needs of the Ministry of Defense, even taking into account the special operation in Ukraine.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/202236-v-gosdume-rassmotrjat-vozmozhnost-otpravki-mobilizovannyh-jeks-bojcov-omon-i-sobr-v-podrazdelenija-rosgvardii.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    Didn't you guys throw a fit when I used the word conscripts?

    Laughing

    The conscripts aren't part of the "SMO" and won't be heading to to Ukraine. Sounds like conscription business as usual, yawn, nothing to see.

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:18 am

    Recruits for autumn conscription will not be sent to the war zone in Ukraine - Russian General Staff

    The Russian Armed Forces General Staff has made several statements regarding the autumn conscription:

    - The events of the forthcoming conscription are in no way connected with a special military operation, they will be carried out on the dates established by the Russian legislation and in a planned manner;

    - All conscripts, irrespective of their specialty, will serve in the territory of the Russian Federation;

    - We are not talking about any kind of mobilization, about calling up full-time students studying in higher education establishments: everyone will quietly attend classes, and no one will call them up or mobilize them;

    - In the fall, 120,000 people will be called up for military service, less than in the fall of 2021;

    - Even if a special military operation is conducted, this number - 120,000 people drafted in the fall - will fully meet the needs of Russia's power structures;

    - Citizens called up for military service will not be involved in the special military operation in Ukraine;

    - All conscripts whose term of service has expired will be discharged and sent back to their places of residence in good time.

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:28 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #25 - Page 33 Idiot10

    Cuz this is wot winners do... Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:18 am

    The Russian MIC already use it as a testing ground for their own kits so... Razz

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    Post  Backman Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:52 am

    Quote from Gilbert Doctorow blog

    "It marks the beginning of open war on Ukraine with the objective of the enemy’s unconditional capitulation. This will likely entail the removal of the civil and military leadership and, very likely, the dismemberment of Ukraine. After all, the Kremlin warned more than a year ago that the US-dictated course of NATO membership for Ukraine will result in its loss of statehood."

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    Post  mnztr Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:51 am

    DPR militia is reporting Ukraine concentrating troops for an attack. Personally Russia should already be bombing before they start. Not so sure why you would wait and let them organize. Kill them while they form, kill them while their attack and kill them when they retreat. If Russia actually allows this assault to form and engage, then I will fart in the general direction of their commanders. They should have 50 SU-34s ready to conduct round the clock dumps.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:30 am

    Airbornewolf wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:I am seriously thinking to just take a vacation from this....

    Guys sitting at their homes discussing military strategies and tactics while watching everything from their homes, thousands of kms away from the front. Users like the Jean-Claude X Damme and his alter egos with some Napoleon complex trying to lecture how to win WW3... You are praying the same phrases every few pages up and down like mantra. It is getting repetitive.

    I am just waiting for further NATO movements since the German side appears to do something in terms of logistics and I would expect other PONOS spearheads doing something similiar. So sit back and observe the further steps.

    Those people here do not understand what is happening, or the escalation that is about to happen on the battlefield.
    I come here and scroll trough the pages of comments until i see an username i DO want to read what they have to say.
    The level of armchair expertise here is not good for my health either thumbsup

    Oh guys, c'mon Laughing
    You have to admit that some of them bring a pure joy while observing Laughing
    Armchair field marshals and strategists, who have no bloody idea what the railway gauge is Laughing
    Or can't show the place we talk about on the map, still have tons of expert thoughts on how the campaign should be carried there Laughing
    Actually I love it, some of them can make my day all along! Laughing

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Yeah, the Chinese are simply enaging in political camouflage, making generalised statements that encapsulate responsible diplomacy and nominally adhere to high principles, but without any actual direct criticism of Russias actions or any calls for the "international community" to take action against them. Its just optics, and while Chinese spokemen indulge in this bland rhetoric, China is buy behind the scenes co-operating with Russia and supporting their efforts to undermine the foundations of US hegemony and wreck their control of the global financial system (the true source of US power).

    I would say the opposite my friend, watching how the Chinese carry themselves for the last decade.
    I have never, ever witnessed the level of harshness the Chinese diplomacy is using now. They used to be the way you are describing them, but ... not for a while. They openly carried vast support to Russian actions, and some of the comments towards the US are simply offensive. It has never been this way, Chinese always used a non-confrontal language. Aside of that, sure, they could ram a spy airplane if they wanted Twisted Evil Laughing yet they have always covered that with nice words.
    Now they don't care anymore, they can call the US president a moron openly.

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    billybatts91
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    Post  billybatts91 Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:48 am

    Anyone know how long it's gonna take to get these 300,000 into Ukraine specifically?

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:59 am

    flamming_python wrote:[
    'According to independent Russian media'?

    Rolling Eyes

    Brain independent Laughing Laughing

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    auslander
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    Post  auslander Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:17 am

    billybatts91 wrote:Anyone know how long it's gonna take to get these 300,000 into Ukraine specifically?

    Apparently you have a problem with reading comprehension. None of those undergoing mobilization will be sent to combat, that fact is engraved in stone.

    In this village all is calm, those who need to are registering as required. The cut off for officers of my rank is age 65 so I don't have to register. I did anyway. However, we are all preparing and stocking up. Better to have canned goods and preserves and not need them at this time than to need them and not have them. VCO has even stocked up with a six month's supply of food for the children.

    I keep the vehicles, what little we use them, full of petrol and diesel. Reserves of both fuels are in the neighborhood of 60 liters for each. Diesel also serves for the generator if needed, which burns a liter in three hours. Everything is fluffed, buffed and ready to go, just in case.

    City is to all intents and purposes closed. Entire island is closed to orcs. Of course anyone planning to commit a dastardly deed will already have mainland tags and registration anyhow but still, our security folks filter them pretty good. Our village has check points at all the entrances as does Balaklava and (in theory) Simferopol. We also have roving check points all over this huge village plus Rusgvardya patrols 24/7. Since we know all the local LE and they know us we rarely get stopped, as in once and even that time the Kapitan at my window spoke English quite well, was very polite and once he saw my ID immediately waved us through. I'm the only foreigner left in this berg to the best of my knowledge.

    So far, so good. We'll see how all this pans out but somehow I doubt there will be any fighting on this island.

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    Post  mnztr Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:46 am

    billybatts91 wrote:Anyone know how long it's gonna take to get these 300,000 into Ukraine specifically?

    By rail of course but apparently the 300K will replace contract troops that are already fully trained up that will be moved to Ukraine and the new 300K will backfill them in areas further from the zone of conflict.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:52 am

    China behaving like an autistic borderliner again.

    Taiwan is pending.. Better pick a side lest you'll be next with no friends left.

    China is not going to send troops to Ukraine to help Russia, just like Russia is not going to send troops to help China if a conflict with Taiwan starts, but continuing to buy Russian energy and food and other products, and Russia continuing to sell energy and food and other products and materials to China is all that is required for now.

    These slant eyed bastards cannot be trusted. They are not real friends. If I'm Russia, I would not back China on the Taiwan issue. I would be neutral. Especially if more idiotic rhetoric like this comes from Beijing.

    Russia does not need Chinese support and China does not need Russias support, what they need is for the other to remain neutral and not join the sanctions orgy of the west.

    ^ Probably the rigidity of the bureaucracy. They are stuck with the rules of SMO until the right papers are signed I guess. Overly legalistic bs. FFS it is so frustrating.

    I rather doubt that even comes in to it... the best chance for a mouse to escape a trap is when it realises it is a trap and has time to escape from it.

    Traps must be fast and complete or the targets will get away.

    One Million? thats more men than needed unless the russians really wanna get this war done fast but still mobilize one million men takes months as all the gear for these formations need to be supplied

    The Source might as well been the US State Department.

    Don't wanna sound like a conspiracy nutter, just an observation.

    Not a conspiracy... they have been shaping opinions since their inception, but being very subtle so that no one gets alarmed.

    Talk about Russians or Chinese fixing US elections... try Google and Microsoft...

    I'm not even Indian. Then again, you prove your stupidity just by posting. I bet outside of this, you do so just by breathing.

    Wagner is a mercenary group dumbass.

    You will be waiting a month for a reply.

    Kadyrov was asking for 85,000. They went with 300,000.

    He wanted 85K more men in Ukraine to fight... we don't know for sure what these 300K are going to be used for specifically.

    In this war, we see that the russian air force simply doesnt have the numbers to coverthe front area which allows for ukrainian armored groups to attack and marshall almost unimpeded. This numerical insufficiency can be remedied by having thousands of drones like forpost and inokhodets constantly patrolling, the frontline and behind it, but russia only has a few dozen of them at best. Meanwhile russian strike aircraft are too valuable to be risked to strike behind enemy lines.

    We see in every conflict that small groups of mobile well armed enemy are difficult targets for any air power... even all of HATO.

    This proves that retiring the MiG-27 and Su-22M4 was a mistake. They were affordable and effective ground attack aircraft with just as much, if not more, modernization potential than the Su-25. The MiG-27K had a far superior laser targeting system than the vanilla Su-25 for example. If russia still had a few hundred Su-22M4s and MiG-27s, it could use them instead of overkill aircraft like the Su-34 for battlefield interdiction.

    I would have to disagree... for striking specific targets like a bridge or building they were very good but operating over the battlefield they were too fast.

    The Su-25SM3 has a pretty good laser and EO system fitted, but much of the time they don't roam the battlefield looking for targets of opportunity, they are normally sent on specific missions to hit enemy forces in specific locations as identified by ground forces.

    Ie the enemy are advancing and moving through a forest in front of our troops... Su-25s could launch volleys of rockets lofted into the air to fall near vertically on the target area... rockets coming in near vertical are vastly more capable and effective than rockets arriving at a near horizontal angle... the first dozen trees will stop them coming in near horizontal... lofted rockets are dangerous anywhere inside the entire length and width of the forest... hitting a branch up in the trees just increases the spread of fragments...

    Didn't you guys throw a fit when I used the word conscripts?

    They are being conscripted but the traditional meaning of conscripts is inexperienced people from ordinary life called up for mandatory military service.

    In this case they are previous contract soldiers with combat experience, so no, by definition they are not conscript soldiers, they are being called conscripts because they are being mobilised... called up... conscripted.

    Frontline attack aircraft are extremely vulnerable because of widespread MANPADS. The only reason old useless dinosaurs like the Su-25 and the A-10 still linger on is because they have been proven to be very good at general CAS in less MANPADs-saturated environments. They were designed with some survivability in a light AAA (implying guns and cannons) environment, not the way a frontline battlefield looks today...(1)

    The EW equipment their helicopters and Su-25s are carrying seem to be rather effective considering there are supposed to be thousands of MANPADS in country including British and American and of course Soviet and Polish etc etc missiles too.


    (1) The A-10 and the Su-25 were both designed for ridiculous survivability, they both excel at it. But the A-10 also has a gigantic main autocannon that is pretty much useless except for local troop support in an environment where you already fully control the airspace. It was designed to destroy heavily armored vehicles, and by the time it was fielded it couldn't. As this weapon is overkill for every mission it can realistically do something good in (lighter cannon pods, rocket pods etc would do a much better job), and it takes up a good chunk of the A-10s overall weight since it's simply built-in, the A-10 is the worse platform of the two, ironically enough.

    The gun, the ammo bin and the electric motor that drives the gun is the size of a small car and is the reason the A-10 is the size of a B-25.

    Even a broken clock is correct twice a day

    But he isn't.

    He was claiming raw conscripts with no military or combat experience from the last few conscription periods were going to be conscripted again... ie that they would actually be actual conscripts.

    These men are being conscripted but the requirement they have combat experience means only former contract soldiers or special forces that actually went to war are going to be conscripted.

    These are not green conscripts like Chechnia.

    I would say denying air supremacy when you don't really have an air force and when you are utilizing primarily SAMS developed by your enemy 30 years ago is pretty successful.

    Not really... they seem to continue to hit ground targets and despite HATO support and more MANPADS than most western countries have available on their own, while losses of aircraft and even standoff weapons seems to be the exception... they have been upgrading their systems all this time just like Russia has and has had HATO input for the last decade too, so no excuses for not being up to scratch.

    On the other hand we have the ex military conscripts, up to 300k, going back into the military as part of the ongoing mobilization.

    Only former soldiers with combat experience will be mobilised which excludes conscripts as they are portrayed in the traditional sense.

    These experienced veterans are being conscripted/mobilised, but they are not green untrained inexperienced conscripts as used in Chechnia or Vietnam (by the US).

    Question 2:- Does this statement "All conscripts, regardless of the VUS, will serve on the territory of Russia, there will be no dispatch to the NWO zone." mean that neither group will serve in Ukraine (i.e. outside Russia)?

    They are mobilising them now but they wont get sent anywhere for a month or so, which means the Donbass and Lugansk might be the territory of Russia.

    Question 3:- Does this change after parts of Ukraine become part of Russia next week?

    They places they can be sent changes if Russia expands further into the former Ukraine.

    Judging by how russia is using its Su-34s(droppping dumb bombs flying right sabove the target) and almost not using strike UAVs it is the 70s.

    The Su-34 of today is vastly superior to Su-22 or Su-17 or MiG-27 or Su-24s from the 1970s.

    The Su-22M4 was as good as the Su-25 in ground attack.

    No it wasn't, the troops on the ground said the Su-25 was rather better at finding the enemy positions they directed them to and hitting the enemy positions in Afghanistan... and since.

    Yet russia is using Su-34s, Su-30s and Su-25s to do the job of drones. Its better to lose a MiG-27 or Su-22M4 than a Su-34. Oh wait, Su-34s were lost already.

    Fitters and Floggers were lost too.

    Armor is bullshit. Speed, DIRCM, MAWS, flares/chaff and jammer pods are what matters. The Su-22M4 and MiG-27 had more upgrade potential than the Su-25.

    Funny because Su-25s have all those, while the Fitters and Floggers had speed and flares.

    Su-25s have landed with one engine taken out... something a Fitter and Flogger simply can't do.

    I have never, ever witnessed the level of harshness the Chinese diplomacy is using now. They used to be the way you are describing them, but ... not for a while. They openly carried vast support to Russian actions, and some of the comments towards the US are simply offensive. It has never been this way, Chinese always used a non-confrontal language. Aside of that, sure, they could ram a spy airplane if they wanted Twisted Evil Laughing yet they have always covered that with nice words.
    Now they don't care anymore, they can call the US president a moron openly.

    We haven't seen real diplomacy from the west for quite a few decades now, so their honesty is refreshing... when European leaders predicted Clinton would win because Trump is an idiot... who would vote for him, then of course they were shocked and horrified when Trump won and then treated them like the shit they are.

    Real diplomacy is Putin... when did he reply to western reporters with his opinion of who should win any sort of election in the west.

    Putin would always reply that it is not for him to select such a person, the voters need to decide for themselves... that way there is no awkwardness if the other guy wins... like there was with Trump.

    Putin and the Chinese have realised there is no appeasing the west... they are what they are and have no reason to change for the moment.

    So far, so good. We'll see how all this pans out but somehow I doubt there will be any fighting on this island.

    Not to say they wont try, but I think they are going to get very desperate and try all sorts of stuff... their own actions have made Ukrainian citizens fear them so much they want to join the Russian Federation to protect themselves from these idiots.

    The irony is that if Putin wanted to re-absorb the Crimea and enormous swathes of the Ukraine I would have said that was absurd in the early 2000s... but western and specifically US actions have made it actually necessary to reduce the death toll to a minimum.

    Good to hear you are safe and well... we are thinking about you.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:58 am

    By rail of course but apparently the 300K will replace contract troops that are already fully trained up that will be moved to Ukraine and the new 300K will backfill them in areas further from the zone of conflict.

    They said those being mobilised would get extra specific training based on experience in Ukraine by professionals currently fighting there, and picking their specialisations I would think they are looking to fill gaps... they might send them to new parts of the Russian Federation inside former Ukraine borders.

    They know what they want for this phase and any future phases of the conflict they might shift to... winter is coming and I think right now using artillery and air power and drones to engage the enemy without hand to hand combat is a good way to deal with their numbers without endangering your own.

    They spent big money modifying the design of their armoured vehicles to take the crews out of turrets and away from the guns and missiles and stored ammo and safe behind the heaviest hull armour... to then march troops like cannon fodder at the enemy simply does not make sense.

    For all we know this mobilisation could be for troops to attack Odessa mid or late winter... we all know how distracted the west gets at christmas and new year...

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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:17 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Good to hear you are safe and well... we are thinking about you.

    I'll second that. thumbsup Just yesterday i was wondering how Auslander and folks/dogs were doing.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:25 am

    GarryB wrote:
    By rail of course but apparently the 300K will replace contract troops that are already fully trained up that will be moved to Ukraine and the new 300K will backfill them in areas further from the zone of conflict.

    They said those being mobilised would get extra specific training based on experience in Ukraine by professionals currently fighting there, and picking their specialisations I would think they are looking to fill gaps... they might send them to new parts of the Russian Federation inside former Ukraine borders.

    They know what they want for this phase and any future phases of the conflict they might shift to... winter is coming and I think right now using artillery and air power and drones to engage the enemy without hand to hand combat is a good way to deal with their numbers without endangering your own.

    They spent big money modifying the design of their armoured vehicles to take the crews out of turrets and away from the guns and missiles and stored ammo and safe behind the heaviest hull armour... to then march troops like cannon fodder at the enemy simply does not make sense.

    For all we know this mobilisation could be for troops to attack Odessa mid or late winter... we all know how distracted the west gets at christmas and new year...

    Is it not more likely that the called-up reservists will be stationed within Russia so as to free up regular combat troops for duty in Ukraine?

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:36 am

    I think they might introduce some draftees into the warzone directly, to test the waters for this idea so to speak - but most of what they need reservists for would be inside Russia itself.

    But fact is it's all speculation. A lot of the info floating about is outright contradictory.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:37 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Is it not more likely that the called-up reservists will be stationed within Russia so as to free up regular combat troops for duty in Ukraine?

    There will be a regular autumn draft anyway, soon. 120 000 will be called.
    They can always keep the draftees that were supposed to be released now for w few months extra.
    So that two makes 420 000 extra troops in ranks, in a few weeks from now.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:49 am

    Is it not more likely that the called-up reservists will be stationed within Russia so as to free up regular combat troops for duty in Ukraine?

    If they wanted place fillers to call up to fill gaps in Russian territory so soldiers in Russian territory can be freed up to send to the Ukraine why would they demand the called up soldiers have combat experience?

    The mobilised troops are going through refresher training by instructors familiar with what is going on in the Ukraine to get them up to speed, so I would assume they will end up in the battle zone at one point or another.

    They are mobilising troops now but we don't know... it might be two weeks or a month or two months before they complete their refresher training.

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    Post  LMFS Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:03 am

    Eurasia & Multipolarity
    Forwarded from Donbass Devushka (Scott)
    🇷🇺🇷🇺💪🗳Voting on the referendums has begun in the DPR, LPR, Kherson, and Zaporozhye.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:08 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Is it not more likely that the called-up reservists will be stationed within Russia so as to free up regular combat troops for duty in Ukraine?

    If they wanted place fillers to call up to fill gaps in Russian territory so soldiers in Russian territory can be freed up to send to the Ukraine why would they demand the called up soldiers have combat experience?

    The mobilised troops are going through refresher training by instructors familiar with what is going on in the Ukraine to get them up to speed, so I would assume they will end up in the battle zone at one point or another.

    They are mobilising troops now but we don't know... it might be two weeks or a month or two months before they complete their refresher training.

    Yup, good points, but as a counter-argument, could they be intended to maintain the combat reserves in case NATO idiots do anything stupid?

    Part of keeping SMO numbers low was apparently intended to permit the bulk of the military to be available to counter NATO if required while the SMO was pursued. Taking on 300k combat-experienced reservists would allow 300k of regular contract military to fight in Ukropisstain while maintaining the conventional deterrence.

    FWIW I think you're probably right, but I don't think we can yet discount the possibility.

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    Post  auslander Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:50 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Good to hear you are safe and well... we are thinking about you.

    I'll second that.  thumbsup   Just yesterday i was wondering how Auslander and folks/dogs were doing.

    We are well, locally nothing has changed. Shops and kiosks are full of product, fresh foods are delivered daily and price controls are still in effect.

    We did acquire another blue merle a year ago. Like Sophia, no one wanted her so we took her. Kristina is a stunning beauty with the very rare for a merle blue eyes. Sophia has adopted her and the two are inseparable, eating, walking and sleeping together. Unfortunately Sophia is aging, she is 14 years, ancient for a koli, and she can no longer walk unassisted. VCO and I both know what is coming but for the time being Sofik is happy with Kristina.

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    Post  limb Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:15 am

    Apparently Ukrainians have taken drobishevo and fortified their bridgehead near k. Liman. Liman is under threat of encirclement, yet the Russian command is doing absolutely nothing. No reinforcements, no tanks, no air support, nothing. Theyve let bars and the lpr militias to fend for themselves.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:36 am

    I think it is finally time to deal with those who write the following; Russia does not do this or that, Russia does not have this or that, etc. More than 80% of the posts have to do with that nonsense because the other half who disagree with the five-columners and pussies waste valuable time explaining to them to let things run their course. Membership in the military forum does not mean and does not affect anything, but morons do not understand that.

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:54 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Good to hear you are safe and well... we are thinking about you.

    Seconded thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

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    Post  Hole Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:57 am

    The Su-22M4 was as good as the Su-25 in ground attack.
    Su-17M4 was used by Russia, Su-22M4 is the export model.  Rolling Eyes


    Conscripts and Reservists can be used inside Russia, so...
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